Cooper vs Hilton vs Bryant

[himmystyles 29]

For those of you at these guys in early or mid second round, who would you go with in ppr? My gut said Cooper, but Crab might eat into a lot of his production. Dez seems to have the least competition and highest td potential, but also the worst qb and with no zeke for a while could get blanketed. Hilton I'm just not sure about to be honest. Who would you go with?

[NEWPOSTERGUY! 266]

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP

 

HTH.

[weepaws 2,459]

Hilton

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Where those three are going in most drafts, none of the above should be an answer too. A lot of questions surround Luck and they don't have a viable back up to make me bite on Hilton. Dez is fine when healthy, but that's a big qualifier the past couple of years. You can draft guys that produce at Cooper's level two or three round later. I'd consider a lot of mid round backs before those guys.

[himmystyles 29]

Where those three are going in most drafts, none of the above should be an answer too. A lot of questions surround Luck and they don't have a viable back up to make me bite on Hilton. Dez is fine when healthy, but that's a big qualifier the past couple of years. You can draft guys that produce at Cooper's level two or three round later. I'd consider a lot of mid round backs before those guys.

Agreed. Just experimenting with a zero rb theory.

[Oriole8159 86]

are you considering these guys before or after AJ Green or Michael Thomas? I'd take either of those 2 over either of these 3, and some rankings have Dez and Hilton before them.

[Oriole8159 86]

Where those three are going in most drafts, none of the above should be an answer too. A lot of questions surround Luck and they don't have a viable back up to make me bite on Hilton. Dez is fine when healthy, but that's a big qualifier the past couple of years. You can draft guys that produce at Cooper's level two or three round later. I'd consider a lot of mid round backs before those guys.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you said about those specific WRs, but I did want to add that it's not like the RBs in that tier are any more secure. I think it's very reasonable to expect that some of the Howard, Ajayi, Freeman, Fournette, Murray tier of guys will underperform just like Gurley, Miller, Lacy, Ingram, Martin did in that same tier last year.

 

Pick the wrong RB in that spot, and it's extremely hard to recover. At least with the WRs you can be confident that you'll get an every week starter, even if they only provide WR2 numbers for you.

 

Just saying.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

I don't necessarily disagree with what you said about those specific WRs, but I did want to add that it's not like the RBs in that tier are any more secure. I think it's very reasonable to expect that some of the Howard, Ajayi, Freeman, Fournette, Murray tier of guys will underperform just like Gurley, Miller, Lacy, Ingram, Martin did in that same tier last year.

 

Pick the wrong RB in that spot, and it's extremely hard to recover. At least with the WRs you can be confident that you'll get an every week starter, even if they only provide WR2 numbers for you.

 

Just saying.

It's simple, compare running backs going in the 2nd and 3rd vs running backs going in the 5th & 6th. Then look at wide receivers going in the 2nd and 3rd vs wide receivers going in the 5th & 6th. It's way easier finding receivers than running backs. There are receivers going in the 8-9th round who are serviceable starters in week 1, the same cannot be said for running backs. Yes, they are harder to predict, but they are also far more valuable. You need at least two solid running backs if you want to compete, which means taking the ones with upside as often as possible.

[Oriole8159 86]

It's simple, compare running backs going in the 2nd and 3rd vs running backs going in the 5th & 6th. Then look at wide receivers going in the 2nd and 3rd vs wide receivers going in the 5th & 6th. It's way easier finding receivers than running backs. There are receivers going in the 8-9th round who are serviceable starters in week 1, the same cannot be said for running backs. Yes, they are harder to predict, but they are also far more valuable. You need at least two solid running backs if you want to compete, which means taking the ones with upside as often as possible.

 

those RBs can bust though or get injured; hence why I said Lacy, Miller, Gurley, Martin, Ingram last year. All 2nd or early 3rd rd picks last year, and none were even full time starters by the end of the year. They may not provide full return, but It's not often that a 2nd rd WR is not at least an every week starter for you, so there's just as much risk with the RBs is what I'm saying.

 

If you're a smart player, it's actually quite easy to find starting caliber RBs all throughout the season in my opinion. To bring back last year again, we saw D Murray have a resurrected year, McCoy, Forte and Gordon as a 6th/7th rd backs, Jordan Howard, Jay Ajayi, Ty Montgomery, Spencer Ware, Christine Michael, Isaiah Crowell, solid Frank Gore, Bilal Powell, Rob Kelley. And you get all that while still having a known guaranteed starter out of your 2nd rd WR, presuming no injury.

 

There will be just as many options I believe this year as well, so if you're a smart player you absolutely can hit on these guys.

[Drizzay 645]

Dez has horrible matchups for the first 6 weeks. Stay away.

[72dolfan 5]

Where those three are going in most drafts, none of the above should be an answer too. A lot of questions surround Luck and they don't have a viable back up to make me bite on Hilton. Dez is fine when healthy, but that's a big qualifier the past couple of years. You can draft guys that produce at Cooper's level two or three round later. I'd consider a lot of mid round backs before those guys.

 

Cooper is heading into is magical 3rd year.

[IGotWorms 3,310]

I don't love any of them but T.Y. is probably my choice.

 

The Colts struggled last year but T.Y. still put up the best numbers of his career. Mostly because he got a ton of targets - but is that going to change this year? I don't see why it would unless I'm missing something. Health is not an issue with him either.

 

Amari Cooper just hasn't lived up to his early promise yet and is often outshined by an older WR with less fanfare on his own team. Maybe it changes this year but I ain't betting on it.

 

Dez has had injury issues the last two seasons and he's playing on a run-first team. Zeke's suspension could open up opportunities but it could also lead to greater emphasis on him by opposing defenses. Maybe he returns to form but I'm letting someone else take that chance unless the price is right.

[tanatastic 2,061]

People low on Coop and saying he hasn't lived up need to take a closer look. Put Crabtree aside for a second, I know he has outplayed Coop both years. Coop is entering his third season and improved both rec and yds from his rookie year. That's called an upward trend. A decent bet is that he improves on both of those yet again and takes a step forward. Why would you think he wouldn't?

 

A young guy improving on 83 rec and 1150yds is a guy you want. Two years in the league, 2 1k seasons. TDs are fickle, don't scrutinize those as much. Crabtrees stats are his ceiling, pretty much he is what he is, he is trending neither up or down. Coops arrow is pointed up.

[IGotWorms 3,310]

People low on Coop and saying he hasn't lived up need to take a closer look. Put Crabtree aside for a second, I know he has outplayed Coop both years. Coop is entering his third season and improved both rec and yds from his rookie year. That's called an upward trend. A decent bet is that he improves on both of those yet again and takes a step forward. Why would you think he wouldn't?

 

A young guy improving on 83 rec and 1150yds is a guy you want. Two years in the league, 2 1k seasons. TDs are fickle, don't scrutinize those as much. Crabtrees stats are his ceiling, pretty much he is what he is, he is trending neither up or down. Coops arrow is pointed up.

His sophomore year was basically a carbon copy of his rookie year.

 

He has promise, for sure, but you're overstating the case a bit.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Nothing against Cooper, but he has to improve on his stats for his ADP to pay off and I just don't see much value here even if he does. I think he's being drafted close to where his ceiling is. It doesn't take receivers three years to become dominant anymore. The elite receivers are putting up elite numbers in years 1 & 2. I think he's a very good receiver, but I don't see him having the talent that the top 5 have. Why draft a player as the #10 receiver and needs to improve for that to pay off, when you can draft players at the position who are being drafted closer to their floor and have put up similar numbers in the past?

[tanatastic 2,061]

His sophomore year was basically a carbon copy of his rookie year.

He has promise, for sure, but you're overstating the case a bit.

How is it overstating and what was overstated? He improved his rookie rec and yds, yes or no? Ok so why think he won't improve on them again and go for 90 1200+?

[himmystyles 29]

The more I think about it the more I like dez. Yes his first 6 games suck but he's all they have and he will whine if he's not fed. Also he always gets his tds. Meh we'll see.

[socrilles 0]

Really don't like any of the 3, although I would go with dez....

 

Coop, usually gets the tougher match up, is more of a deep/long ball threat (so less consistency) has a tougher schedule this year and Crabtree has been putting up better numbers

 

Hilton, who knows how luck is going to be (last i read he might not be ready for week 1), and Moncrief is returning so should take away touches

 

Dez, without Elliot teams may not have to respect the run quite as much (if elliot even misses time), but Dallas O line is stupid good giving Dak plenty of time to find Dez and Dez to get open, but Dez doesn't have the best track record of staying healthy

 

In PPR really like getting at least 1 solid RB in the first two rounds, if not 2 solid RBs, the WR talent available later has been great and non rb by committee is getting much more rare

[LoOnAtIk 75]

Nothing against Cooper, but he has to improve on his stats for his ADP to pay off and I just don't see much value here even if he does. I think he's being drafted close to where his ceiling is. It doesn't take receivers three years to become dominant anymore. The elite receivers are putting up elite numbers in years 1 & 2. I think he's a very good receiver, but I don't see him having the talent that the top 5 have. Why draft a player as the #10 receiver and needs to improve for that to pay off, when you can draft players at the position who are being drafted closer to their floor and have put up similar numbers in the past?

 

I completely agree with just about everything here. By tanatastic's logic then OBJ was his highest rated player last year. Cooper is a stud but i expect more of the same from the Raiders this year. Cooper is the homerun threat where Crabtree is the possession guy (Thus making him sexier in the redzone, which is why i prefer Crabtree in redraft.)

 

To answer OP, I prefer Hilton of all 3 WRs. If Luck is out or misses an extended period of time then you have 2015 Hilton (69-1124-5) which is a decent floor. If Luck plays all 16 but plays hurt then you have 2016 Hilton (91-1448-6) which is borderline elite. If Luck is completely healthy and takes a step forward then who's to say Hilton does not improve with him?

 

So even though Cooper is the youngest, I think Hilton provides safety AND the most upside of the 3 (for redraft).

[MudDawgs4Life 6]

People low on Coop and saying he hasn't lived up need to take a closer look. Put Crabtree aside for a second, I know he has outplayed Coop both years. Coop is entering his third season and improved both rec and yds from his rookie year. That's called an upward trend. A decent bet is that he improves on both of those yet again and takes a step forward. Why would you think he wouldn't?

 

A young guy improving on 83 rec and 1150yds is a guy you want. Two years in the league, 2 1k seasons. TDs are fickle, don't scrutinize those as much. Crabtrees stats are his ceiling, pretty much he is what he is, he is trending neither up or down. Coops arrow is pointed up.

I think I wrote the EXACT same thing on a cooper vs. crabtree thread last week. people expected him to be jerry rice on day 1. he's getting better, as is carr. definitely a guy trending in the right direction. three more tds last year and we're talking about him in the top 12 overall.

[weepaws 2,459]

Coopers rec total went up by ten.

 

But his TD total went down by one and his avg went down also by .9.

 

Same token Crabtree numbers went up last season across the board more rec more yards and more tds.

 

Plus look at Coopers last eight games of both seasons he's played with the Raiders.

 

His first eight games for both his first two seasons he had 98 rec.

 

The second half of both seasons he's had 59 rec.

 

I wants to join the Cooper hype train but I can't do so.

 

Crabtree is the better draft pick.

[tanatastic 2,061]

There is much being made of Lucks injury. But if he's ok, Hilton has 4 straight 1k seasons, led the league last year and is a great pick.

[weepaws 2,459]

Just read that Luck could be placed on short term IR list.

 

That kills Hilton and every Colts value.

[snatchit 108]

I think Dez has the highest floor

[jimaveli 119]

I buy the story that Cooper could be about to have 'that year' that we've been wanting him to have. But so far, Cooper is DIFFICULT to own. He's a guy who makes me remember to take prep time looking at weekly stats and scoring instead of just looking at the year-end stats and assuming it's all good all the time. AKA he will 3 for 31 you in week 14 and get you eliminated. At least he doesn't have to deal with Denver during the fantasy playoffs, but still...his weekly downside has been scary his first two years.

 

I had Cooper last year after he 'fell' to me at the end of the 3rd round. There were weeks where I had to touch my chin to ponder whether to start him in certain matchups. That's a scary thing to be up against with a 2nd/3rd round WR pick. SCARY.

 

Hilton has higher yardage upside, but he disappears too. And the Colts might be legit terrible this year.

 

Assuming health for all 3, it's Dez for me in a walk because of TD floor safety. AKA if Dez is playing, he's gonna be scoring TDs.

[weepaws 2,459]

I picked Hilton already, but if indeed Luck isn't ready to play to start the season I would also pick Dez .

[72dolfan 5]

I don't love any of them but T.Y. is probably my choice.

 

The Colts struggled last year but T.Y. still put up the best numbers of his career. Mostly because he got a ton of targets - but is that going to change this year? I don't see why it would unless I'm missing something. Health is not an issue with him either.

 

Amari Cooper just hasn't lived up to his early promise yet and is often outshined by an older WR with less fanfare on his own team. Maybe it changes this year but I ain't betting on it.

 

Dez has had injury issues the last two seasons and he's playing on a run-first team. Zeke's suspension could open up opportunities but it could also lead to greater emphasis on him by opposing defenses. Maybe he returns to form but I'm letting someone else take that chance unless the price is right.

 

Would you take Doug Baldwin over those three in the 2nd round?

[weepaws 2,459]

Baldwin is a very interesting question.

 

If Luck is going to miss some playing time I would take him over Cooper easily and Hilton.

 

But I have a feeling if Dez can stay healthy he could post very good numbers this season.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,578]

I take Gronk over all 3, and quite possible one of these 3 or Demaryius (94-1200-8) like every year, should be available in the 3rd

[Mile High Magic 8]

AFC west near the top in schedule difficulty. Indy easiest but will that translate? Dez will be doubled without Zeke. I think Hilton.

[weepaws 2,459]

What if Luck misses time?

[snatchit 108]

AFC west near the top in schedule difficulty. Indy easiest but will that translate? Dez will be doubled without Zeke. I think Hilton.

I don't think they will double Dez, the scare is him having top corners covering him. He is in great health and had a full off season. He can win one on one being so physical

[TennisMenace 156]

For those of you at these guys in early or mid second round, who would you go with in ppr? My gut said Cooper, but Crab might eat into a lot of his production. Dez seems to have the least competition and highest td potential, but also the worst qb and with no zeke for a while could get blanketed. Hilton I'm just not sure about to be honest. Who would you go with?

I suffered with Cooper last year. Can't find myself suffering again. Give me Crabtree instead.

[72dolfan 5]

What if Luck misses time?

 

Luck has not thrown since his surgery. He will miss time.

[weepaws 2,459]

And that will hurt Hilton.

[Cretins 21]

Agreed .. Hilton carries too much risk with Luck's questionable timeline.

 

In my keeper league I know that I'm going to have to take a WR in the first round with three RBs kept, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to be faced with Dez, Hilton and Baldwin. I've been struggling between Baldwin and Dez, but Hilton is an easy one to dismiss.

 

All things equal, I think I like Dez more, but his recent injury history is making me think twice. That, and Dallas's matchups against the Giants, Broncos and Cardinals to start the season. Those are three tough games compared to Seattle's when looking at defence vs. the pass. If Baldwin can give me a few good games to start the season, it could give me time to find one of those hidden gems that start showing up after a few weeks.

 

I know I'm going to flip back and forth all weekend leading up to Monday's draft!

[Gepetto 985]

Brandin Cooks and I would have said him before Edelman got hurt.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,578]

Gronk