RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 21, 2014 Just out of curiosity, how old are you? Did you watch much football back in the 80's and 90's? In "today's" game, Favre would prolly be even more dominant and impressive. "Today's" game has rules that bend over backwards to encourage offense and heavily favors the wr's. "Today's" game makes it so much easier for the QB to excel - yet, in "today's" game P. Rivers still can't muster even 1 MVP. Oh by the way, Favre has 3. Nobody said anything about SBs. But given the choice, yea - SBs weigh far more heavier than QB rating stats....... Being the best (or a better) QB takes into account everything: stats, wins, cruch time performance and the culture they create. Phillip Rivers is so far down the list of all time greats, you have to turn to page 2. Even in "today's" game - he barely makes top 5 discussion. Im 40 and I watched a ton of football in the 80's you cant really compare QB's from ERA's though, Farve was one of the best during his ERA, but overall his numbers just arent that impressive to me. If Rivers played in Pitt or NYG he would have some rings, hes a far superior QB than Roethlisberger and Eli, they just had defense to carry them to titles, and they get credit for that If Rivers didnt spend 6 years of his prime years with Norv as a head coach, things could have turned out alot different Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted October 21, 2014 Im 40 and I watched a ton of football in the 80's you cant really compare QB's from ERA's though, Farve was one of the best during his ERA, but overall his numbers just arent that impressive to me. If Rivers played in Pitt or NYG he would have some rings, hes a far superior QB than Roethlisberger and Eli, they just had defense to carry them to titles, and they get credit for that If Rivers didnt spend 6 years of his prime years with Norv as a head coach, things could have turned out alot different I'm 45, watched plenty myself...... If and nuts, candy and butts - have a hell of a house of cards working there. In 2007, Eli and the Giants won the SB. That year the Giants defense ranked 17th in the league - SD ranked 5th. In fact when NY won the SB again in 2011 they had the 25th ranked defense - SD ranked 22nd... What does it all mean? It means the excuses go all the way around the block. It was Norv's fault (Aikman won 3 with him), it was not having a defense (Eli wont 2 with below average defenses) and Rivers never had anybody to throw to. Well he did have some guy named LaDainian Tomlinson for 4 seasons. Name all the HOF wrs and rbs Favre had to work with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tanatastic 2,061 Posted October 21, 2014 you cant really compare QB's from ERA's though, Farve was one of the best during his ERA, but overall his numbers just arent that impressive to me. Favre played many many years in this era, hes not Terry bradshaw. He played the whole 2000s decade. Not impressive numbers? Go look at a yearly rundown of his career. We are talkin many seasons of 30tds and high yardage. Hes not one of thos ebums that played 20yrs and got stats by default. He had so many years of elite stats its second ONLY to Peyton. No one else is close, marino had like 4-5 good seasons compared to favres 15 or something ridiculous. As far as regular season stats go, theres peyton then favre then a mile between the rest. Rivers has better numbers/yr than Farve accross, the board, Farve threw the most INT's in NFL history as well, the thing about Farve though is his best season came at age 40 No he doesnt. Yes Favre has the most ints but he killed it almost every year except maybe 3-4. I think hes a better QB than Favre, Favre was a reckless gunslinger akin to the days of the 80's and 90's, alot of his stats are due to longevity. See above. He combined longevity with dominance in a way that no one else ever has besides peyton. Look people...Try to see past the retirement saga, the pics, the saturation of favre talk. 3Mvps, an arguable 4th, a pro bowl season at 40 and a decades worth of 30td seasons. No one besides peyton can even hold a candle to Favre as far as pure stats go. Marino is a total hack and not in the same league. Now if we are talking all time, favre slips a but. I still cant fathom putting Favre outside my top 6 or so qbs all time. I look down on guys that play a long time but are mediocre and just get big stats by default. Favre is not that guy. If he had put up losing seasons during his run id have to rethink, but the dude had only a few seasons of 8-8 or worse. In a 20yr career thats baffling. So many 30td seasons and playoff runs. the ints and playoff bungles drop him a bit for sure, but the guy was a legend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 22, 2014 I'm 45, watched plenty myself...... If and nuts, candy and butts - have a hell of a house of cards working there. In 2007, Eli and the Giants won the SB. That year the Giants defense ranked 17th in the league - SD ranked 5th. In fact when NY won the SB again in 2011 they had the 25th ranked defense - SD ranked 22nd... What does it all mean? It means the excuses go all the way around the block. It was Norv's fault (Aikman won 3 with him), it was not having a defense (Eli wont 2 with below average defenses) and Rivers never had anybody to throw to. Well he did have some guy named LaDainian Tomlinson for 4 seasons. Name all the HOF wrs and rbs Favre had to work with? the defense got hot at the end of the year and carried them all the way thru the SB. They held the pats to season low yards and points Aikman won 3 SB's with Norv as a coordinator, not a head coach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted October 22, 2014 Rivers highest TD total was 34...32 once...and 30 one other time. Favre threw for 30 or more 9 times in his career. 38 one year...39 another (35 another) all better than Rivers career high. Rivers throws for more yards...yippee. Also, you want to talk about not being able to compare eras...put Favre, in his prime, in an era where DBs can't touch anyone and see what happens. There is almost nothing that Rivers does better than Favre did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 22, 2014 Farve vs Rivers yr by yr as starters yards, tds, int, comp%, int%, YPA, I wont use QBr cause its heavily unfair in Rivers favor 1) 3227, 18-13, 64%, 2.8%, 6.9.....3388, 22-9, 61%, 2.0%, 7.4 2) 3303, 19-24, 61%, 4.6%, 6.3.....3152, 21-15, 60%, 3.3%, 6.9 3) 3882, 33-14, 62%, 2.4%, 6.7.....4009, 34-11, 65%, 2.3%, 8.4 4) 4413, 38-13, 63%, 2.3%, 7.7.....4254, 28-9, 65%, 1.9%, 8.8 5) 3899, 39-13, 59%, 2.4%, 7.2.....4710, 30-13, 66%, 2.4%, 8.7 those are the first 5 seasons, its tedious to go further, but the numbers stay the same Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 22, 2014 Rivers highest TD total was 34...32 once...and 30 one other time. Favre threw for 30 or more 9 times in his career. 38 one year...39 another (35 another) all better than Rivers career high. Rivers throws for more yards...yippee. Also, you want to talk about not being able to compare eras...put Favre, in his prime, in an era where DBs can't touch anyone and see what happens. There is almost nothing that Rivers does better than Favre did. Rivers also had a RB rushing for 20 tds multiple years, so his TD's are lower. TD's are a matter of opportunity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted October 22, 2014 RaiderHater's Revenge, on 21 Oct 2014 - 7:01 PM, said: the defense got hot at the end of the year and carried them all the way thru the SB. They held the pats to season low yards and points If and nuts..... SD had really good defenses and a future HOF rb - and Rivers still couldn't get it done. Quote Aikman won 3 SB's with Norv as a coordinator, not a head coach Norv was still calling the plays...... You left off the field superintendent, parking lot attendants, and concession stand workers on your list of people to blame. No question they had something to do with Rivers' demise too..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted October 22, 2014 Rivers also had a RB rushing for 20 tds multiple years, so his TD's are lower. TD's are a matter of opportunity LT? Yeah, he had exactly 1 20TD season in his career. Rivers first year as a starter in 2006 And at the first 5 year comparison as being all you will show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 22, 2014 LT? Yeah, he had exactly 1 20TD season in his career. Rivers first year as a starter in 2006 And at the first 5 year comparison as being all you will show. Ill do the other 3 yrs later today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tanatastic 2,061 Posted October 22, 2014 Ill do the other 3 yrs later today first 5 years? Thats like the tip of Favres career when he won the mvps. Add on another whole decade of great seasons...Not really sure where you are trying to go with this. Favres stats can destroy every qbs except peytons, I thought I covered this already in my post. Rivers needs another 5 years of pro bowl seasons to even begin to enter a convo comparing him to favre. Do you not rememebr the last few years when everyone was saying Rivers is done and bad? Yes it was completely unfair and off base but it shows hes not bulletproof. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 22, 2014 first 5 years? Thats like the tip of Favres career when he won the mvps. Add on another whole decade of great seasons...Not really sure where you are trying to go with this. Favres stats can destroy every qbs except peytons, I thought I covered this already in my post. Rivers needs another 5 years of pro bowl seasons to even begin to enter a convo comparing him to favre. well Rivers has been a starter for 8 yrs, so 8 yrs for 8 yrs, and the numbers are heavily in Rivers favor. Thats where I am going with it. I said in the beginning that Favre's no's are because of his longevity. in 19 seasons Farve had 21 or more int's 6 times, and 12 times over 15 ints Rivers career high is 20 1 time, with not even another season above 15 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted October 22, 2014 Heavily in his favor? Hah!!! Dude...again...Favre is top 10 all time...in many people's top 5. Do you even think people would put Rivers in the top 20 all time? Is he even in the top 10 of the last decade? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 22, 2014 well Rivers has been a starter for 8 yrs, so 8 yrs for 8 yrs, and the numbers are heavily in Rivers favor. Thats where I am going with it. I said in the beginning that Favre's no's are because of his longevity. in 19 seasons Farve had 21 or more int's 6 times, and 12 times over 15 ints Rivers career high is 20 1 time, with not even another season above 15 also as for MVP's Farve never won another one, once Manning, Brady, Brees, Mcnabb started playing, and Rivers would never be on par with the first 3 Favre is considered the 231st best player of all-time according to football reference ranking Rivers is considered the 313th best player of all-time according to same ranking, after only 8 seasons. If Rivers maintains it for another 6 yrs he will surpass Favre Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 22, 2014 Heavily in his favor? Hah!!! Dude...again...Favre is top 10 all time...in many people's top 5. Do you even think people would put Rivers in the top 20 all time? Is he even in the top 10 of the last decade? I dont know anyone who has Favre in their top 5, even their top 10, and if you dont think Rivers is in the top 10 for the last decade you have some serious hatred for Rivers and probably think Cutler is great top 5 QB's last decade Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers ranks 4th or higher amongst EVERY qb stat over the last 8 seasons top 10 all-time in my opinion in no order Manning, Brady, Montana, Young, Tarkenton, Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, Fouts and Unitas, I dont know much about pre 1975 football. I also put Brees and Aikman ahead of Favre, off the top of my head. And probably Rodgers as well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tanatastic 2,061 Posted October 22, 2014 well Rivers has been a starter for 8 yrs, so 8 yrs for 8 yrs, and the numbers are heavily in Rivers favor. Thats where I am going with it. I said in the beginning that Favre's no's are because of his longevity. in 19 seasons Farve had 21 or more int's 6 times, and 12 times over 15 ints Rivers career high is 20 1 time, with not even another season above 15 The numbers are not at all heavily in rivers favor. I cant do the math but id be willing to bet they are even in favres favor for tds and yds for rivers possibly. I do agree phillip is doing great and with another 5 or 7 years of top shelf production he could conceivable come within a mile of thinking about some of favres numbers. Possibly. Your going to penalize Favre for ONLY having 3 mvps!!! Compared to phillips none?!! This is getting out of hand now. I would absolutely put Rivers in my top 10 over the last decade tho. But so what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antiramie 50 Posted October 22, 2014 Brett Favre might be the most overrated player of all time. Rivers' numbers put his to shame. His completion %, TD/INT ratio, QB rating, and baby making rate are all superior to Favre's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tanatastic 2,061 Posted October 22, 2014 Brett Favre might be the most overrated player of all time. Rivers' numbers put his to shame. His completion %, TD/INT ratio, and QB rating are all superior to Favre's. So more wins per season, SB win and 3mvps dont count for anything? Puts his numbers to shame is a bit of a stretch. Higher qb rating and td/int ratio ill give him. Baby making for sure. But how about wang pics taken and given? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antiramie 50 Posted October 22, 2014 So more wins per season, SB win and 3mvps dont count for anything? Puts his numbers to shame is a bit of a stretch. Higher qb rating and td/int ratio ill give him. Baby making for sure. But how about wang pics taken and given? Wins aren't directly related to QB performance. Favre also loses points for selling out to market crappy jeans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted October 22, 2014 I dont know anyone who has Favre in their top 5, even their top 10, and if you dont think Rivers is in the top 10 for the last decade you have some serious hatred for Rivers and probably think Cutler is great top 5 QB's last decade Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers ranks 4th or higher amongst EVERY qb stat over the last 8 seasons top 10 all-time in my opinion in no order Manning, Brady, Montana, Young, Tarkenton, Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, Fouts and Unitas, I dont know much about pre 1975 football. I also put Brees and Aikman ahead of Favre, off the top of my head. And probably Rodgers as well Really? You don't know anyone that ranks Favre in the top 10 all time? You must not know many people. You have about zero credibility as you keep going down this track of pumping up Rivers so much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 22, 2014 Really? You don't know anyone that ranks Favre in the top 10 all time? You must not know many people. You have about zero credibility as you keep going down this track of pumping up Rivers so much. no I mean which of those 10 would you take Favre ahead of? someone might personally have Favre in their top 10, but thats probably because they liked him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted October 22, 2014 no I mean which of those 10 would you take Favre ahead of? someone might personally have Favre in their top 10, but thats probably because they liked him Tark, Bradshaw, Fouts, Aikman, Brees....on par with Brady, Young, and Elway (want to penalize Favre for INTs...better take a look at Elway's TD:INT ratio too), Sure...I liked him...but he was just a better QB than those guys. Could do more no matter what was around him...better arm and all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Truebluey 3 Posted October 22, 2014 I have Rivers and Palmer and I'm starting Carson against Eagles this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Truebluey 3 Posted October 22, 2014 I have Rivers and Palmer and I'm starting Carson against Eagles this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tanatastic 2,061 Posted October 22, 2014 top 10 all-time in my opinion in no order Manning, Brady, Montana, Young, Tarkenton, Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, Fouts and Unitas, I dont know much about pre 1975 football. I also put Brees and Aikman ahead of Favre, off the top of my head. And probably Rodgers as well I love talking about all time qbs. Your list is fine but theres guys I dont like. Granted I have a whole criteria for judging qb legacy, I could prob write a 5 page thesis on the subject I love it so much. manning, montana, brady, favre, young, elway, brees, marino, aikman, unitas is a rough look at a top 10 list all time. I might waver on those but top 4 is set for me. Marino was erased by favre and didnt win a sb so he cant be avove him. Bradshaw wasnt very good, the steel curtain was. Tarkenton didnt win and was all flash. Fouts was just a bearded guy who didnt win and a system qb. I hesitate to put unitas there but he was so good for his time it feels wrong to not include him. I could make the argument Peyton needs 1 more sb to pass montana but considering age and neck surgery its just too much, hes the best all time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 23, 2014 I love talking about all time qbs. Your list is fine but theres guys I dont like. Granted I have a whole criteria for judging qb legacy, I could prob write a 5 page thesis on the subject I love it so much. manning, montana, brady, favre, young, elway, brees, marino, aikman, unitas is a rough look at a top 10 list all time. I might waver on those but top 4 is set for me. Marino was erased by favre and didnt win a sb so he cant be avove him. Bradshaw wasnt very good, the steel curtain was. Tarkenton didnt win and was all flash. Fouts was just a bearded guy who didnt win and a system qb. I hesitate to put unitas there but he was so good for his time it feels wrong to not include him. I could make the argument Peyton needs 1 more sb to pass montana but considering age and neck surgery its just too much, hes the best all time. I can understand the Bradshaw, hes a modern day Aikman, great managers on great teams. Tark and Unitas I never watched play but I always see them listed so I always include them, they were the best 2 QB's of the 60's/70s Fouts was a game changing QB, he wasnt a system guy, he was the first gunslinger type, playing for Air Coryell, cant fault him for the Chargers having the worst defense of the time. The Holy Roller, the Ice Bowl after the epic battle in Miami, likely cost him a ring. Marino will always rate ahead of Favre hands down for me, simply cause Isotoner and Ace Ventura is better than weenie selfies and Lee jeans fwiw, I also have Warren Moon above Favre Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted October 23, 2014 I love talking about all time qbs. Your list is fine but theres guys I dont like. Granted I have a whole criteria for judging qb legacy, I could prob write a 5 page thesis on the subject I love it so much. manning, montana, brady, favre, young, elway, brees, marino, aikman, unitas is a rough look at a top 10 list all time. I might waver on those but top 4 is set for me. Marino was erased by favre and didnt win a sb so he cant be avove him. Bradshaw wasnt very good, the steel curtain was. Tarkenton didnt win and was all flash. Fouts was just a bearded guy who didnt win and a system qb. I hesitate to put unitas there but he was so good for his time it feels wrong to not include him. I could make the argument Peyton needs 1 more sb to pass montana but considering age and neck surgery its just too much, hes the best all time. I would disagree about Marino. The guy was just flat out a great QB...ring or not. Id put him better than Favre and IMO, #3 behind Montana and Manning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted October 23, 2014 my order list is prob different than most. Personally I think Steve Young is the greatest QB ever, but hes also just my favorite. my top 10 though is Manning Young Montana Marino Unitas Brady Fouts Elway Bradshaw Tarkenton next tier in are Moon, Aikman, Brees, Favre, Kelly, Graham, Rodgers, Mcnabb some one I am forgetting and Rivers. Hes my no 20 all-time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted October 24, 2014 I guess we can take a break on the Rivers live this week. 2nd int was brutal...and he constantly looked like a whiny biotch...chippy with defenders and all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stonewall 647 Posted October 24, 2014 Philip Rivers...Best QB in the game right now? No, but he played against the best one last night. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaBeerz 88 Posted October 24, 2014 No, but he played against t BLhe best one last night. This x100. This thread is stupid. Rivers is a mid tier qb with some upside value because he's playing well. How did you like those 2 picks last night BTW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Simms 11 127 Posted October 25, 2014 I'm a man, I'm 40! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted November 3, 2014 Since I traded for him he's been a dog. Thank god I started Palmer over him this week Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Filthy Fernadez 2,696 Posted November 3, 2014 Since I traded for him he's been a dog. I did have 1 good Week out of him but right now he's sucking ballz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted November 3, 2014 (according to this thread) The best qb in the game right now just threw up a 31.0 rating yesterday in a humiliating, shut out loss. I'm sure it wasn't his fault though - the trainer prolly taped his ankles too tight and the barometric pressure at game time was prolly higher than he is accustomed to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaBeerz 88 Posted November 3, 2014 Can we put this thread to bed now, because he's clearly not. He's been a good value draft pick for his position though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagles Green 34 Posted November 3, 2014 I still can't believe I traded away Manny Sanders for this assbag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,573 Posted November 3, 2014 yep right now, hes the 2nd worst QB in football Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cuse9 128 Posted November 3, 2014 Fantasy greatness.... I traded Larry Donnell for Pierre Garcon.... I then turned Pierre Garcon and Philip Rivers into Cam Newton and Jeremy Maclin....woo hoo Now if only I didn't drop Tom Brady after the KC game I would be rolling!! Fantasy idiot... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
