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Joe Flacco is waaaayyy better than eli manning


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#41 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 10:03 PM

Flacco has had and currently does have a waaaayyyy better deep ball. It's as if you haven't watched football ever in your life.


Did I say Flacco didn't, or Eli had a better one? No, I didn't. It's almost as if you dont know how to read. Shape up kid, if you're going to be that guy.

#42 seafoam1

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 10:57 PM

Did I say Flacco didn't, or Eli had a better one? No, I didn't. It's almost as if you dont know how to read. Shape up kid, if you're going to be that guy

What's the name of this thread? Guess you forgot with that memory of yours. And manning sucks at passing in general.



#43 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 11:51 PM

What's the name of this thread? Guess you forgot with that memory of yours. And manning sucks at passing in general.


Threads shift all the time. Pay attention.

#44 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 07:13 AM

I picked up Flacco while Wentz was out but started Garoppolo until this week. 

 

I started Flacco over Wentz today. Winner winner chicken dinner. 

 

eli manning has 1 more superbowl win than Flacco, but Flacco is producing more with less weapons on offense. 

 

Flacco = HOF consideration dude but doesn't get in.

eli manning = HOF consideration dude because his defense carried him to 2 titles but is worse than Flacco so he does not belong in.

 

Glad I played Flacco today. Hope you manning lovers like your results today.

 

Now I admit that I was wrong on the 0-7 start for the Giants, but I am 3-1 so far on that prediction.

 

Most people here think that Barkley was the best choice for that crap team for the future. But RBs get killed in this league and the giants will still be stuck with manning. Eeeewww. Bad move.

 

 

 

 

Neither one belong in the H.O.F.  Both are "decent" NFL QB's... nothing more, nothing less.



#45 seafoam1

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 11:17 AM

 

 

Neither one belong in the H.O.F.  

Correct. 



#46 jrokh

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 11:20 AM

But only one of them will wear the gold jacket and his name is Eli Manning...

#47 DaBeerz

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:04 PM

Eli is not a HOF QB by any standard. He was always a pretty mediocre QB. He just happened to be really, really clutch when it mattered in the Superbowl. 

 

Flacco right now is a better QB than Eli who is in his twilight for his NFL career. I don't think anyone would debate OP on this...



#48 jrokh

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:13 PM

He is a HOF QB by the only standard that matters, the voters who are going to vote him in...

#49 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:16 PM

He is a HOF QB by the only standard that matters, the voters who are going to vote him in...

 

You may be right... and at the very least, Eli will have company.  As, he won't be the only NY QB in the HOF that doesn't belong there.



#50 DaBeerz

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:19 PM

He is a HOF QB by the only standard that matters, the voters who are going to vote him in...

 

That's true they will but look at his stats...which I guess you can't ignore. 

 

He is 6th on all-time passing yardage, 

7th for passing TDs

6th for completions

and 2 Superbowl MVP's.

 

I guess my initial reaction was no, he's not worthy but looking at his stats, I guess he'll get in even as a bubble guy. If he doesn't get in then Elway, Aikman, Fouts and other guys (who Eli is ahead of) shouldn't be in either.

 

I guess my initial thought that Eli was always kind of a mediocre QB isn't justified by his stats and production in the position.



#51 jrokh

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:21 PM

Whether he belongs or not is a different argument, and a very subjective one at that. When he puts on that gold jacket don't think he'll much care...

#52 seafoam1

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:24 PM

 
That's true they will but look at his stats...which I guess you can't ignore. 
 
He is 6th on all-time passing yardage, 
7th for passing TDs
6th for completions
and 2 Superbowl MVP's.
 
I guess my initial reaction was no, he's not worthy but looking at his stats, I guess he'll get in even as a bubble guy. If he doesn't get in then Elway, Aikman, Fouts and other guys (who Eli is ahead of) shouldn't be in either.
 
I guess my initial thought that Eli was always kind of a mediocre QB isn't justified by his stats and production in the position.


So they reward longevity is all that means. Which is fine if that is their criteria.

#53 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:27 PM

Whether he belongs or not is a different argument, and a very subjective one at that. When he puts on that gold jacket don't think he'll much care...

 

He doesn't have to care.  I'm sure Joe Namath doesn't care that he doesn't belong in the HOF.  I'm sure Troy Aikmen doesn't care either.



#54 DaBeerz

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:28 PM

So they reward longevity is all that means. Which is fine if that is their criteria.

 

Well, I do believe they factor that in otherwise a lot of other QBs wouldn't be inducted either. 

 

I'm just pointing out there are some stats that may support his potential induction is all. 

 

I guess for anyone saying he doesn't belong there, my response would be why not?



#55 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 02:59 PM

 

Well, I do believe they factor that in otherwise a lot of other QBs wouldn't be inducted either. 

 

I'm just pointing out there are some stats that may support his potential induction is all. 

 

I guess for anyone saying he doesn't belong there, my response would be why not?

 

  1. After this season, his career record will be under .500 (or there about)
  2. He'll have a completion pct under 60% (or there about)
  3. He has a INT pct of 3.0
  4. He was NEVER considered one of the 7 best QB's in the league over the course of his career.
  5. He has a career passer rating under 84.0
  6. He's played virtually his entire career in the "offense friendly" environment and his numbers aren't really any better than guys like Andy Dalton, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Alex Smith, Ryan Tannehill, and Carson Palmer... guys who will never make the H.O.F.


#56 DaBeerz

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 04:15 PM

 

 

  1. After this season, his career record will be under .500 (or there about)
  2. He'll have a completion pct under 60% (or there about)
  3. He has a INT pct of 3.0
  4. He was NEVER considered one of the 7 best QB's in the league over the course of his career.
  5. He has a career passer rating under 84.0
  6. He's played virtually his entire career in the "offense friendly" environment and his numbers aren't really any better than guys like Andy Dalton, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Alex Smith, Ryan Tannehill, and Carson Palmer... guys who will never make the H.O.F.

 

 

If any of those guys win 2 super bowls and the MVP both times, they might be in the running. I think sometimes the voters put a premium on the big dance and overlook some less than stellar play otherwise. 

 

Your points are all valid though, good post thank you. 



#57 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 05:02 PM

Are any of you heading to Canton to protest when Eli gets in?

#58 seafoam1

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 05:35 PM

 

 

  1. After this season, his career record will be under .500 (or there about)
  2. He'll have a completion pct under 60% (or there about)
  3. He has a INT pct of 3.0
  4. He was NEVER considered one of the 7 best QB's in the league over the course of his career.
  5. He has a career passer rating under 84.0
  6. He's played virtually his entire career in the "offense friendly" environment and his numbers aren't really any better than guys like Andy Dalton, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Alex Smith, Ryan Tannehill, and Carson Palmer... guys who will never make the H.O.F.

 

Let's add on and compare to a true HOF candidate with one of his contemporaries: Drew Brees - Brees has about 30 more starts so you can prorate if you like:

 

Passing yards:                      Brees 71,740        - Manning 52,737

Completion %:                      Brees 67.1            - Manning 60.1

Pass TDs / Ints:                    Brees 496-228      - Manning 343-229

Pro Bowls:                            Brees 11                - Manning 4

Career Record:                     Brees 145-107      - Manning 112-106

Top 10 in QBR from

  2006 - 2017             Brees  12 (7x top 5)          - Manning 4 (never top 5)   

2006 was when they started QBR

 

I thought HOF candidates had to prove to be up with the best at their position year after year. Not having 10 of their 14 years in the league being out of the top 10 in rankings. And out of the top 5 all of those years.



#59 rallo

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 10:09 AM

Flacco has had and currently does have a waaaayyyy better deep ball. It's as if you haven't watched football ever in your life.

Agree on the Flacco deep ball... pretty much THE reason he was so highly touted coming from a small school like Delaware.

shark-NATE-o
12 Team Redraft

A. Luck

M. Ingram, J. Stewart, J. Bell, D. McFadden, K. Davis
J. Jones, A. Johnson, M. Evans, T. Williams, E. Royal
D. Walker
D. Bailey

Detroit


#60 tanatastic

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 10:33 AM

This thread is heated for something that comes down to opinion. Bottom line is the two SB will weigh heavily on his legacy and prob get him in one day.

I have been outspoken against Kurt Warner for example. Check the history, he had 2 great years, 1 good year and the rest bad. Not enough for hof imo but those 3 years are all people looked at and the stories told within them made him a hof.

#61 seafoam1

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 10:56 AM

This thread is heated for something that comes down to opinion. Bottom line is the two SB will weigh heavily on his legacy and prob get him in one day.

I have been outspoken against Kurt Warner for example. Check the history, he had 2 great years, 1 good year and the rest bad. Not enough for hof imo but those 3 years are all people looked at and the stories told within them made him a hof.

I think Warner was a really good QB but, 8 of his 12 years in the league he only played 11 games or less. Only 116 games started in 12 years. Compared to Manning, he played in the same amount of pro bowls, was 18 games over .500 for his career starts, while manning is probably going to be under .500 after this year. Better completion % etc..

 

I think he was a way better player than manning, but I don't think either should be in.

 

On NFL radio, Whenever the topic of HOF  comes up, I have heard so many people from players ot coaches to GMs etc... say that the HOF is for the truly special impacting players. It's not the hall of good or even very good. Noone had ever disputed that statement.  



#62 rallo

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Posted 05 October 2018 - 11:10 AM

This thread is heated for something that comes down to opinion. Bottom line is the two SB will weigh heavily on his legacy and prob get him in one day.

I have been outspoken against Kurt Warner for example. Check the history, he had 2 great years, 1 good year and the rest bad. Not enough for hof imo but those 3 years are all people looked at and the stories told within them made him a hof.

Warner got in on the Terrell Davis technicality... dominant for a short period of time means more to HOF voters than body of work sometimes... especially when looking at MVPs, and SBs


shark-NATE-o
12 Team Redraft

A. Luck

M. Ingram, J. Stewart, J. Bell, D. McFadden, K. Davis
J. Jones, A. Johnson, M. Evans, T. Williams, E. Royal
D. Walker
D. Bailey

Detroit


#63 LaChup

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 12:44 AM

If Manning makes HOF, then I've got a decent chance as well. Fingers crossed!



#64 seafoam1

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 01:34 AM

If Manning makes HOF, then I've got a decent chance as well. Fingers crossed!


If manning gets in we all should be in.

#65 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 01:31 PM

 

If any of those guys win 2 super bowls and the MVP both times, they might be in the running. I think sometimes the voters put a premium on the big dance and overlook some less than stellar play otherwise. 

 

Your points are all valid though, good post thank you. 

 

Here's just a little more perspective.  Since 2004 (the year Eli was drafted), there has been 37 QB who've started at least 64 games (4 full seasons).  Here is some context to where Eli stands among his peers.

 

Eli's rank...

Comp % (60.11%): 28th

Yards per start: 16th

TD%: 15th

Int %: 7th (meaning only 6 guys are worse)

Passer rating: 26th

Yards per attempt: 25th

Winning PCT: 23rd

 

Here is the list of the QB's who've started at least 64 games during the time frame in which Eli played his whole career (sorted by games started).

 

Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Tony Romo
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Ryan
Kurt Warner
Tom Brady
Philip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Russell Wilson
Matt Schaub
Brett Favre
Ryan Tannehill
Sam Bradford
Andy Dalton
Alex Smith
Carson Palmer
Derek Carr
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
David Garrard
Joe Flacco
Marc Bulger
Josh McCown
Matt Hasselbeck
Jason Campbell
Donovan McNabb
Eli Manning
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Andrew Luck
Kyle Orton
Jake Delhomme
Blake Bortles
Matt Cassel
Cam Newton
Michael Vick
Mark Sanchez
 
Couple of QB's of note.
 - Barring injury, Kirk Cousins will enter this group come season end.
 
If you take the total sum of the rankings of all of those 37 QB and rank that number, Eli ranks 19th overall... meaning "average" among his peers.  The players in bold are the ones who rank 5 better and 5 worse than Eli.  Of that group, none will make the Hall of Fame at their current projection.  If they do, they'll likely NOT fall within 5 better or 5 worse than Eli when all is said and done for them.


#66 tanatastic

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 01:35 PM

Eli is 6th all time passing yards, 7th all time passing tds. 2sb wins against the GOAT. Lets be real folks, hes most likely going in regardless of whatever knocks against him.

#67 jrokh

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 01:46 PM

I don't think Eli-Bashers are remotely interested in reality, but you are correct, any QB who wins multiple Super Bowls as the starter, multiple super bowl mvps, top ten in passing yards and touchdowns will be voted in as a HOFer. That is the standard, that is the reality...

#68 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 01:50 PM

Eli is 6th all time passing yards, 7th all time passing tds. 2sb wins against the GOAT. Lets be real folks, hes most likely going in regardless of whatever knocks against him.

 

The only thing he was has been elite at is staying healthy.  He is the definition of a "compiler".  In baseball, they don't give you credit for that, and justly so.  He did win 2 Super Bowls, but championships are a "team" achievement, not an individual one.  I don't put any weight in that.  I know others do, but that's because it helps them to not have to critically think.



#69 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 01:53 PM

I don't think Eli-Bashers are remotely interested in reality, but you are correct, any QB who wins multiple Super Bowls as the starter, multiple super bowl mvps, top ten in passing yards and touchdowns will be voted in as a HOFer. That is the standard, that is the reality...

 

"Bashers"?  Name one person who's said he sucked?  NONE.  No one here is saying he stinks or isn't any good.  Virtually everyone who feels that Eli doesn't belong in the H.O.F. has said that they believe Eli is a "good" QB, just not H.O.F. worthy.  You just want to make things up to make you feel better.



#70 jrokh

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 02:08 PM

If you didn't bash him that obviously didn't apply to you, your insistence that Eli is not HOFworthy is duly noted

#71 seafoam1

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:13 PM

If you didn't bash him that obviously didn't apply to you, your insistence that Eli is not HOFworthy is duly noted

And your insistence that he is, is duly noted. R.I.P.



#72 jrokh

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:15 PM

Who else but Seafoam? He's Seafoam , Seafoam, lives in the sea where there's always lots of foam.

#73 seafoam1

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:27 PM

Who else but Seafoam? He's Seafoam , Seafoam, lives in the sea where there's always lots of foam.

Or you can just be ghetto. Like jrokh. yaya homie.



#74 jrokh

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:30 PM

Jersey Strong, Soft Illinois snowflakes wouldn't understand.

#75 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:35 PM

Jersey Strong, Soft Illinois snowflakes wouldn't understand.


Bears fans don't know what a good QB looks like. That's why Seafool is so salty.

#76 jrokh

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:37 PM

Have nothing against The Bears or Chicago, great city.

#77 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:39 PM

Have nothing against The Bears or Chicago, great city.


Me either. But QB isn't their strong point.

#78 seafoam1

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:39 PM

Jersey Strong, Soft Illinois snowflakes wouldn't understand.


I live in jersey. Hate it.

#79 jrokh

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:40 PM

Me either. But QB isn't their strong point.

True that although they have Mitchy now.

#80 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 07:45 PM

True that although they have Mitchy now.


Except for one game against the horrible Bucs, not impressed. We'll see.