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DaBeerz

3 Stud RB and still not winning...

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Skill will always give you an advantage over luck. Doesn't matter if it's per week, year or years. The only point I'm making is that the longer period you are looking at, the more influence skill has and the less influence luck has.

 

Totally agree. Somewhere in all of that above is what I'm trying to say too :) (And just the fact that some of this is skill, which it seems like some people are denying if I'm reading them right.)

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I think it's an interesting discussion.

 

What percentage of FF success do you attribute to skill or general football knowledge, vs. Luck or random weekly performances?

 

I wouldn't want to even attempt to give a percentage. Not without a shite ton of data to be looking at. I mean--if someone had access to Yahoo's league info, and could compile win-loss records over a decade from all the leagues that have been around that long, we might be able to start to talk about more precise impacts. I'd love to see someone do that, actually. Anonymize the data and make it public. Let the people really good with stats play with it. I think we could learn a lot.

 

 

Years ago just for fun, maybe ten or eleven years into my 17 year keeper league, I did compile an overall winning percentage and a bunch of other stuff--average finishes, average total points, that kind of thing. And it was very clear that we were not all lumped in together. Certain owners were significantly (I mean statistically significantly, the formal use of the word) better (and others worse) than other owners, and better (or worse) than randomness would indicate. Not that I'm amazing overall in FF, but in that particular league, I'm one of the better teams in winning percentage, number of #1 finishes and such (which is skewed, because I'm the commish, and might not have been running the league so long if I wasn't doing well :)) It was a 10 teamer until a few years ago, 12 now. In 17 years, I've won 4 times. Another guy has won 3 (edited, I was wrong) times. Another guy 3 times. That's 10 of the league's wins, out of 16 completed years, from three teams. Another owner has an average finish of around 8th (of 10). (That's not random :))

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Totally agree. Somewhere in all of that above is what I'm trying to say too :) (And just the fact that some of this is skill, which it seems like some people are denying if I'm reading them right.)

Yeah, I'm letting you deal with them. Most of these people are proud of their championships, despite in their opinion, it being "luck." I wouldn't play if it were all luck, what would be the point?

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Hey, waitaminute.

 

Why, in that other thread, are you saying that a cornerback being out would be an indication that you should start the WR?

 

It's all just luck! There's absolutely no reason to think that the WR will actually do better when the top CB is injured. There's no reason to think there's a better chance of production, because there's still a chance he won't do better. We can't rely on something like this to give us actually usable information to base our decisions on.

 

You have no control over the process. You should be making your start/sit decisions by pulling names from hats. And your add/drop decisions too. You should be flipping a coin for each player on your roster, and dropping him if it's tails. Then adding a random player drawn from a hat. According to your beliefs about this, that team has every chance of being just as successful!

 

:D (Not being a jerk, I still love you weepaws :))

Agree with your points.

 

There is no guarantee, and if I'm wrong on my decision, is that bad luck because it didn't work or is it bad skill.

 

Now all the players I start on my ff team this weekend all score and score a lot of points, and everyone of my starters out score every player at the same postion that's on my bench.

 

But the other owner beats me by one point, is that bad skill or just plan ol bad luck?

 

No problem your not being a bother, I like it.

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Stud RB theory is dead, so dead.

 

I have the #1, #3 and #7 total FF points RBs and still struggle to win week to week. RB aren't carrying FF teams anymore like QBs and DST. (1/2 PPR 12 team keeper league).

 

Respectively Gurley, Bell and Ingram.

 

 

 

It never was true.

 

But this isn't to say RB's and QB's don't win you championships.

 

The problem is how one drafts RB's. Either redraft or auction. Over spending this position doesn't make sense.

you need a balanced approach to score the most.

Trick is and has always been to identify the diamonds in the rough either during the draft or in FA.

 

If you misappropriated your RB position, this will mean you are likely to be weakened elsewhere. Possibly to remain within a whole the remainder of the season.

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Agree with your points.

 

There is no guarantee, and if I'm wrong on my decision, is that bad luck because it didn't work or is it bad skill.

 

Now all the players I start on my ff team this weekend all score and score a lot of points, and everyone of my starters out score every player at the same postion that's on my bench.

 

But the other owner beats me by one point, is that bad skill or just plan ol bad luck?

 

No problem your not being a bother, I like it.

 

If that guy beats you by one point, the claim I would make is that this one particular event in the entire season, and your entire FF career, did not go as planned :)

 

But something not going as planned does not mean that you had 'no control' at all over how it went. That's how probability works. Your playing the players you did make it less likely that he would beat you. Had you benched your entire team and left all your starting spots unfilled, it would have been incredibly unlikely that you'd win. But still not impossible. Every player on his team could be injured on the first play of each of their games, without scoring a single point--with the exception of the kicker, who misses a FG and does nothing else. So you'd win 0 to -2 :D Is that possible? Sure. Predictable? No. Did your benching your players still make it less likely that you'd win? Yes.

 

I think part of the problem is that the word 'luck' isn't really defined. If you mean 'unpredictability', then yeah, there's a lot of that in the game. If you mean 'purely random outcomes', there's not a lot of that. What happens on the field isn't mostly random either. What happens there, after we've set our lineups, is unconnected to anything more we can do. That's true enough. But that's not what 'random' means.

 

What happens on the field corresponds pretty closely to the skill of the players and coaches. And I set my lineup based on what I expect of that. Sometimes, what happens on the field defies expectations. But that's not the definition of 'random' at all.

 

 

EDIT: I will say this--we sometimes say 'luck' to indicate when we simply don't get the results we expected. I predict someone will do something, and they do something else, and we say 'ah, bad luck'. So if by 'luck' you mean just that this game does not 100% of the time turn out as expected, then yes. All 'luck'. But then no 'game' is anything but 'luck'. And this definition, unexpectedness, in no way means we have 'no control'.

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Totally agree. Somewhere in all of that above is what I'm trying to say too :) (And just the fact that some of this is skill, which it seems like some people are denying if I'm reading them right.)

No one is saying that and you are not reading my posts right. The aspects of the game that a good owner can control do not always correlate to winning. To actually win a head to head game, you have to score more than your opponent. You have zero control over that. I have seen guys score most points in the league and win 4 games. I have seen the village idiot who doesnt know Tom Brady from Marsha Brady win 2 titles.

 

We all know football and know fantasy and matchups etc, so the skill cap is very low. Your advantage over me is either non existent or very small. There is no more skilled players, there are just regular players like us who know what we are doing, and then the dummys who just draft and have no clue about free agents, matchups etc. They think FF is won at the draft. Those players usually do badly and the rest of us duke it out. Your advantage over them is high.

 

So my point is that its splitting hairs between the guys who know what we are doing, its left completely up to chance. My opponent last week started Carr when he could have picked up McCown. Thats him being a dummy. The amount of variables that go into a game of FF are staggeringly high.

 

You can score 75 and win, you can score 150 and lose. How can you look at that and say win/lose has anything to do with how good an owner is? Total points scored is the only indicator of how well an owner did that year.

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"Showing up is 80% of life. Sometimes it's easier to hide home in bed. I've done both." - Woody Allen.

 

I'd like to add a third element into this discussion of how skill and luck affect FF results and that's effort. Manager B might not be as skilled as Manager A but if he is unfailingly diligent about combing through the injury reports, and what not, and making the appropriate adjustments, and Manager A allows himself the luxury of coasting from time to time....B has the opportunity to negate a lot of A's original edge.

 

I'm a believer in skill triumphing over luck in the long run. For instance, if Player C makes better decisions at the poker table than Player D, C will have better results over the long run than D. But I think there's a limit in the extent to which 'effort' can express itself at the poker table. But in season long league play, I think 'effort' can be a powerful ally to the manager who is prone to roll-up his sleeves on a daily basis.

 

I'll do all I can to get that 52%-48% edge over my opponent. Now luck might still reach up from time to time and bite me in the arse but it'll have a harder time doing so than if I'm a 48%-52% dog...

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Don't agree with that.

 

If you can get more ff out of three Rbs then a wr then your better off chasing more points then a better over all look at a postion.

 

I'm second in points in my 14 teamer, and my first three picks where Rbs.

 

Because when I drafted, I felt they would give me the best Luck for scoring ff points then a wr, and based on my over all total points it did indeed work.

 

Now I was not Lucky enough too week h2h I am 7-6, but I am second in total points.

 

But I was really unLucky because I am also first in points scored against.

 

Now if I had the skills too control how many points my opponent scores on me I would be doing great.

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No one is saying that and you are not reading my posts right. The aspects of the game that a good owner can control do not always correlate to winning. To actually win a head to head game, you have to score more than your opponent. You have zero control over that. I have seen guys score most points in the league and win 4 games. I have seen the village idiot who doesn’t know Tom Brady from Marsha Brady win 2 titles.

 

We all know football and know fantasy and matchups etc, so the skill cap is very low. Your advantage over me is either non existent or very small. There is no more “skilled players”, there are just regular players like us who know what we are doing, and then the dummy’s who just draft and have no clue about free agents, matchups etc. They think FF is won at the draft. Those players usually do badly and the rest of us duke it out. Your advantage over them is high.

 

So my point is that it’s splitting hairs between the guys who know what we are doing, it’s left completely up to chance. My opponent last week started Carr when he could have picked up McCown. That’s him being a dummy. The amount of variables that go into a game of FF are staggeringly high.

 

Weepaws said that we have 'no control' over the results of playing FF. That's what I replied to in the beginning. This is not 'all luck'. We have significant amounts of control.

 

 

"To actually win a head to head game, you have to score more than your opponent. You have zero control over that"

 

False. Again, go ahead and bench your whole team. See if you beat your opponent. If you and your decisions have zero control over the results, benching your team won't impact your chances of winning.

 

You don't have complete control. But you have some control. You can set your team points to zero by benching them all. You can start worse players over better players. The outcome will not always be as predicted. But that is in no way the same thing as saying you have "zero" control. The target shooter doesn't always hit the target. He doesn't always outshoot his opponent. But it's just flat out false that he has "zero" control over the situation.

 

Drop that part of your claim (the zero part), and I don't think we're disagreeing much.

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If that guy beats you by one point, the claim I would make is that this one particular event in the entire season, and your entire FF career, did not go as planned :)

 

But something not going as planned does not mean that you had 'no control' at all over how it went. That's how probability works. Your playing the players you did make it less likely that he would beat you. Had you benched your entire team and left all your starting spots unfilled, it would have been incredibly unlikely that you'd win. But still not impossible. Every player on his team could be injured on the first play of each of their games, without scoring a single point--with the exception of the kicker, who misses a FG and does nothing else. So you'd win 0 to -2 :D Is that possible? Sure. Predictable? No. Did your benching your players still make it less likely that you'd win? Yes.

 

I think part of the problem is that the word 'luck' isn't really defined. If you mean 'unpredictability', then yeah, there's a lot of that in the game. If you mean 'purely random outcomes', there's not a lot of that. What happens on the field isn't mostly random either. What happens there, after we've set our lineups, is unconnected to anything more we can do. That's true enough. But that's not what 'random' means.

 

What happens on the field corresponds pretty closely to the skill of the players and coaches. And I set my lineup based on what I expect of that. Sometimes, what happens on the field defies expectations. But that's not the definition of 'random' at all.

 

 

EDIT: I will say this--we sometimes say 'luck' to indicate when we simply don't get the results we expected. I predict someone will do something, and they do something else, and we say 'ah, bad luck'. So if by 'luck' you mean just that this game does not 100% of the time turn out as expected, then yes. All 'luck'. But then no 'game' is anything but 'luck'. And this definition, unexpectedness, in no way means we have 'no control'.

 

Lol hey I like it, didn't go as plan,, will played.

 

Hey good luck this weekend.

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Lol hey I like it, didn't go as plan,, will played.

 

Hey good luck this weekend.

 

You too my friend. I don't need miracles, just 'what's expected' at this point ;)

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20 year FF player, multiple leagues. Interesting conversation.

 

Yes, luck plays a big role, particularly in H2H. That being said, I still prefer H2H.....just seems more personal. Out of my 4 teams this year, I only have one that missed the playoffs, and I ironically considered it my best team post-draft, with a starting line up of Brees, McCoy, Zeke, The Freak, Watkins, Martavis, and Ertz. Played a lot of high-scoring opponents, and missed the post-season at 7-7. I can live with that. That's FF.

 

However, the remaining skill factor (post-luck), whatever % that may be, is crucial.....and over the years will pay dividends. There is one more factor that I believe to be paramount to success, that I hear discussed or mentioned very seldom....and that is the emotional aspect.

 

Owners who have the tendency to be knee-jerk types almost always fare worse than those who are steady as she goes. Besides playing FF, I also trade stocks, and this is the undeniable similarity between the two pursuits.....the guys who follows the herd and panics at at precipitous stock drop, selling low, or buys up stock when they are soaring, are the ones who pay for the profits of the non-emotional investors. Also, one must be willing and able to spot and invest in a new commodity before it becomes popular and expensive. In my redraft leagues, I always have more yearly waiver acquisitions than anyone else, always having a couple of bench spots available to churn players through that might have an opportunity to blow up. Inevitably, a couple do.

 

Yes, in both, there are times to but, sell, or hold.....but those decisions must be made from logic, research, and circumstance....never from emotion, or you will get sunk 9 times outta 10.

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Weepaws said that we have 'no control' over the results of playing FF. That's what I replied to in the beginning. This is not 'all luck'. We have significant amounts of control.

 

 

"To actually win a head to head game, you have to score more than your opponent. You have zero control over that"

 

False. Again, go ahead and bench your whole team. See if you beat your opponent. If you and your decisions have zero control over the results, benching your team won't impact your chances of winning.

 

You don't have complete control. But you have some control. You can set your team points to zero by benching them all. You can start worse players over better players. The outcome will not always be as predicted. But that is in no way the same thing as saying you have "zero" control. The target shooter doesn't always hit the target. He doesn't always outshoot his opponent. But it's just flat out false that he has "zero" control over the situation.

 

Drop that part of your claim (the zero part), and I don't think we're disagreeing much.

Fine I’ll concede that. If I score high, it does give me a better chance of winning obviously. I could easily still lose, but a high score increases my chances to win somewhat. I could also score low and win.

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Fine I’ll concede that. If I score high, it does give me a better chance of winning obviously. I could easily still lose, but a high score increases my chances to win somewhat. I could also score low and win.

 

Totally agree. There are no guarantees. Well...there's one guarantee. There's a guy in one league who I will apparently always lose to late in the season when his team sucks and he's checked out and not paid attention for weeks. Yahoo could predict me to win by 200 points, and I'll still lose by 10. That is 100% predictable. Other than that, everything else I said checks out :)

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Owners who have the tendency to be knee-jerk types almost always fare worse than those who are steady as she goes.

 

I lost my last two regular season matchups in my keeper league due to game-day swap-outs. Thing is, they seemed reasonable. Benching Marvin Jones on Thanksgiving, for example. I still think that was a reasonable benching, given the data. A couple others too. But it makes me rethink those early-morning last minute decisions all the same, regardless of whether I think I was being clinical about it.

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Sure I get it , I'm like everyone else on here, I do my preseason home work too.

 

And whe I go to my draft I have my cheat sheet also because I know it all.

 

And then the season starts, and oh yeah it's a skill too start Bell over K Willams, not it's the right move, no skill involved in making the right move.

 

And then the season playes out and players that where thought off too be studs aren't and those that weren't are.

 

And the luck that it takes too get that part off it right is indeed 100%.

 

I and look at all that hard work all that skill I spent trying too get it right, and blam im wrong again.

 

Luck.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy new Year. God bless.

But you told me in another thread that god has everything scripted in life. When the question was asked, does god script out on a 3rd and 9 who Brady throws to? You said he controls everything. Even that. So why do homework in preseason on who will do well? Unless the bible has it all hidden in there somewhere. Let's try to figure out how many points Bell will score this week and on what plays of the game he gets them. What chapter do you eant to start with?

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I lost my last two regular season matchups in my keeper league due to game-day swap-outs. Thing is, they seemed reasonable. Benching Marvin Jones on Thanksgiving, for example. I still think that was a reasonable benching, given the data. A couple others too. But it makes me rethink those early-morning last minute decisions all the same, regardless of whether I think I was being clinical about it.

 

I don't know why, but MOST of the time, last minute swaps blow up on me.

 

Sure is sweet when they work, though.

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But you told me in another thread that god has everything scripted in life. When the question was asked, does god script out on a 3rd and 9 who Brady throws to? You said he controls everything. Even that. So why do homework in preseason on who will do well? Unless the bible has it all hidden in there somewhere. Let's try to figure out how many points Bell will score this week and on what plays of the game he gets them. What chapter do you eant to start with?

There is no question that God has total control of everything that happens.

 

Just pick up the Bible start in Genesis 1:1 amd read on.

 

I do my home work in the Bible too learn and too be prepared for what's too come, do you know what the Bible says about what's too come?

 

And I study for ff to be prepared.

 

God doesn't need too your even does tell us everything , do you know why he doesn't?

 

It's in his word now read the Bible.

 

Thank you for the questions about God, that's awsome that means that you are feeling the Holy Spirit.

 

Please ask me more questions about are Lord and Savior.

 

Oh PS. There are a lot of good Bible study sits so look them up , if you need names of those sits let me know , would be happy too give those too and even do a Bible study with you.

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There's a difference between God knowing everything, and God scripting everything. He knows what's to come, but he doesn't script it out. He gives us free will. Whether it be with our faith, who to start or who to throw a ball to. The choice is ours, he just knows what are our choice is going to be.

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There's a difference between God knowing everything, and God scripting everything. He knows what's to come, but he doesn't script it out. He gives us free will. Whether it be with our faith, who to start or who to throw a ball to. The choice is ours, he just knows what are our choice is going to be.

 

The Calvinists are the only ones to even possibly disagree with that. Well, except for the people who toss out "it's all part of God's plan" whenever something bad happens--but I think they are maybe just trying to find something comforting to say to someone. If it really was God's plan that someone kills someone else, it doesn't make much sense for the killer to be punished, right? :)

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The Calvinists are the only ones to even possibly disagree with that. Well, except for the people who toss out "it's all part of God's plan" whenever something bad happens--but I think they are maybe just trying to find something comforting to say to someone. If it really was God's plan that someone kills someone else, it doesn't make much sense for the killer to be punished, right? :)

Bad things are a result of sin, and no longer living in a perfect world. Murder is a result of sin and the free will we have to do bad. The part of God's plan thing may be an attempt to give comfort, but it may be better to reassure them of the eternal life we have waiting for us and this world being temporary.

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The Calvinists are the only ones to even possibly disagree with that. Well, except for the people who toss out "it's all part of God's plan" whenever something bad happens--but I think they are maybe just trying to find something comforting to say to someone. If it really was God's plan that someone kills someone else, it doesn't make much sense for the killer to be punished, right? :)

 

The answer too this question, is in the Bible.

 

Just read it.

 

It's in there and isn't that so great.

 

Free will is one of the great gifts God gives us all, believers and non believers.

 

God doesn't force anyone too sin, we do it on our own free will.

 

He just knows that it's going happen.

 

But please read the Bible, it will feel,your heart with the wisdom of God and save your soul.

 

Remember it's pride that will send one too damnation, and that pride is why we Live in the sin of our own flesh.

 

God hates sin, and doesn't cause anyone too do so, but he knows that we will and what we will do, and that's because of the free sinful will of our heart.

 

Oh the Bible it's an amazing study and a great teacher of the Lords law, and of course it's all about Jesus Christ.

 

And thank you seafoam for bring it up.

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My thoughts and possible 4 cents worth. I look at a couple different sites for rankings, follow the injury report and how it affects my fantasy players, ask a couple question on these forums to see if people can persuade me to think differently in my preconceived notions of who I would pick after probably digging too far into things like weather, opponent defense rankings...... (big fan of that run on sentence).......... the more time I invest in figuring these things out the more upset I get when I lose.

 

This year I have finally figured out that all I can do is put out my best possible roster after gaining assets by trade or waiver wire transactions and then what will be will be. I used to let fantasy affect my mood. Cant do that sheit anymore.

 

I would say 60 percent of this is skill and 40 percent is luck. If you auto drafted and kept your line up the same the whole year you would lose. There is simple skill of plugging in what the computer on your site tells you would get the highest projections and then there is digging deep like I tend to do.

 

Pretty sure this is the first year in 3 years where I will not make the playoffs in both of my leagues, but as we can trade draft picks and acquire better keepers for next year I made dam sure that I gave it my all to acquire all of the best assets I could for next year.

 

That 40 percent luck hopefully is on my side this weekend, but am not counting on it!!!!

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Winning is completely out of your hands in FF, all you can do is score points. Where do you rank in points scored?

 

A guy in my league has 3rd most points and won 3 games all year, it’s completely random and a reason H2H is a joke.

sometimes any given sunday.

 

I have the same situation. great team. ranked #3 in points in a 12 team league, but out of a playoff spot because I lead the league in points scored against.

 

7 teams had their best game of the season against me.

 

sometimes that's just the way it goes.

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Free will is one of the great gifts God gives us all, believers and non believers.

 

 

 

.

So god doesn't tell Brady who to pass to on 3rd and 8? In another thread you said god determines everything including football plays.

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sometimes any given sunday.

 

I have the same situation. great team. ranked #3 in points in a 12 team league, but out of a playoff spot because I lead the league in points scored against.

 

7 teams had their best game of the season against me.

 

sometimes that's just the way it goes.

if it's a complaint then add an extra game a week against team average each week. If it's ok with you, then just go with it and realize this will happen. Have fun dude.

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So god doesn't tell Brady who to pass to on 3rd and 8? In another thread you said god determines everything including football plays.

Better to not get into these kinds of things. Theres no possible fruitful discussion to be had.

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I may have to eat some crow on my post.

 

FINALLY FINALLY my RB lineup came through and won me a game.

 

Ingram wasn't great, but Bell and Gurley both went off for big points, which with some QB help carried the day. I'm into R2 of the playoffs, but I'm playing the top seed. We'll see how this pans out.

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You have Gurley, Bell and Ingram as your RBs? I want to play in your league. :music_guitarred:

 

Bell was my keeper, at the expense of putting Rodgers back out on the market. In retrospect, this worked out for me.

 

Gurley was passed over by his previous owner because Fisher misused him last year. I took him because I figured a new coach would know how to utilize him and I was right.

 

Ingram was passed over multiple times in the draft, as you recall he looked like he would be RB2 in a RBBC that featured AP and other backs. It did not look like a very promising situation for a non-spectacular downhill runner. I don't think any rankings had Ingram pegged as a top 10 RB to be fair. Ingram was ranked RB #14 by FFtoday: http://www.fftoday.com/rankings/playerrank.php?Season=2017&PosID=20

 

No I don't play in a 8 team league with idiots, they know what they're doing.

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Bell was my keeper, at the expense of putting Rodgers back out on the market. In retrospect, this worked out for me.

 

Gurley was passed over by his previous owner because Fisher misused him last year. I took him because I figured a new coach would know how to utilize him and I was right.

 

Ingram was passed over multiple times in the draft, as you recall he looked like he would be RB2 in a RBBC that featured AP and other backs. It did not look like a very promising situation for a non-spectacular downhill runner. I don't think any rankings had Ingram pegged as a top 10 RB to be fair. Ingram was ranked RB #14 by FFtoday: http://www.fftoday.com/rankings/playerrank.php?Season=2017&PosID=20

 

No I don't play in a 8 team league with idiots, they know what they're doing.

yeah I didn't think it was that weird at all to have all 3 of those on one team.

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yeah I didn't think it was that weird at all to have all 3 of those on one team.

 

I don't think it would happen in a redraft league though, to be fair.

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I don't think it would happen in a redraft league though, to be fair.

 

It still could have happened with that trio. If you went RB-RB-RB, you could conceivable end up with Bell-Gurley-Ingram. If others are going WR heavy, for example. As you indicated, Gurley was going as late as the 2nd, and Ingram after him.

 

I have AB and Nuk in my lineup--it's a keeper league too, had them both for years. But those two could also have been a 1-2 redraft combo.

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I don't think it would happen in a redraft league though, to be fair.

I don't think its that unreasonable in a redraft either.

 

A guy gets a Top 3 pick so he takes Bell

Fears around Gurley push him below guys like Ajayi, Howard, Murray and that 2nd tier of WRs, so he could easily be there for the Bell owner in Rd 2.

Ingram was all over the board like you said due to the AP/kamara questions; he actually went in Rd 7 in our draft.

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I don't think its that unreasonable in a redraft either.

 

A guy gets a Top 3 pick so he takes Bell

Fears around Gurley push him below guys like Ajayi, Howard, Murray and that 2nd tier of WRs, so he could easily be there for the Bell owner in Rd 2.

Ingram was all over the board like you said due to the AP/kamara questions; he actually went in Rd 7 in our draft.

 

Beat ya! :D

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I don't think its that unreasonable in a redraft either.

 

A guy gets a Top 3 pick so he takes Bell

Fears around Gurley push him below guys like Ajayi, Howard, Murray and that 2nd tier of WRs, so he could easily be there for the Bell owner in Rd 2.

Ingram was all over the board like you said due to the AP/kamara questions; he actually went in Rd 7 in our draft.

 

Same round for us as well. I'm surprised he fell that far, AP was really overvalued.

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haha, yeah saw that.

 

I don't think its that unreasonable in a redraft either.

 

A guy gets a Top 3 pick so he takes Bell

Fears around Gurley push him below guys like Ajayi, Howard, Murray and that 2nd tier of WRs, so he could easily be there for the Bell owner in Rd 2.

Ingram was all over the board like you said due to the AP/kamara questions; he actually went in Rd 7 in our draft.

 

Depends on the scoring for the league. Most leagues I'm in are heavily weighted towards QB scoring, and the top 3-4 QBs are always keepers, and the top 4-5 RB are off the board. A lot of people will wait to draft QB - QB mid draft, guys like Stafford and Rivers are available and serviceable. PPR and 1/2 PPR created some equalization between stud WR and RBs. If the league does big play TD bonuses, WR are more valuable for that. Almost nobody goes RB-RB-RB you would just be too weak in other positions to compete.

 

My draft, Gurley kept dropping, he dropped to R4, I forget what pick. I think other owners were scared of injury and underperformance.

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