Next in line Aziz Ansari...this is getting stupid

[tanatastic 2,061]

Is he the one that did the big sick? They all look alike to me.

That’s the other one.

[naomi 343]

He's a Muslim Indian.

 

For those who don't read the link, the headline is really all you need to see.

Women are angry, temporarily powerful, and very very very dangerous right now.

 

What I find interesting is why women are angry. Between the Atlantic writer's experience of women hating one night stand situations in the late 70's, and women hating them now, apparently a lot more women than let on hate them. When I was growing up I remember there was a certain sense that having casual sex and moving on from it...casually, was pure normalcy. I listened to a fair amount of Loveline. I read some magazines. You can have fun without being serious, and you should have a set amount of fun when you're young.

 

Yet "they're all the same" (ie., guys) and being disappointed was almost a trope in the 70's (the significant difference is that the young women actually exited the situations firmly back then), and it's been a trope since. All those negative feelings that are evidently common for women have been culturally legitimized (and I'm not saying they're not legitimate, either way) recently, it's just the means of dealing with it is pretty questionable.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Yes, that's the country his parents are from. Muslim is a religion, not a race.

True, I had no idea any Indians were Muslims, seems an odd pairing. He has talked bout his Muslim upbringing but he himself is not religious.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Lol hes Indian.

Some Indians are Muslim. Though he isnt really a practicing Muslim.

[fandandy 3,311]

True, I had no idea any Indians were Muslims, seems an odd pairing. He has talked bout his Muslim upbringing but he himself is not religious.

There's more muslims in India than Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia combined. But yeah, I think India I think Hindu.

[kilroy69 993]

He's a Muslim Indian.

 

 

What I find interesting is why women are angry. Between the Atlantic writer's experience of women hating one night stand situations in the late 70's, and women hating them now, apparently a lot more women than let on hate them. When I was growing up I remember there was a certain sense that having casual sex and moving on from it...casually, was pure normalcy. I listened to a fair amount of Loveline. I read some magazines.

 

Young women inwardly saw it as a certain type of virtue. You can have fun without being serious, and you should have a set amount of fun when you're young.

 

Yet "they're all the same" (ie., guys) and being disappointed was almost a trope in the 70's (the significant difference is that the young women actually exited the situations firmly back then), and it's been a trope since. All those negative feelings that are evidently common for women have been culturally legitimized (and I'm not saying they're not legitimate, either way) recently, it's just the means of dealing with it is pretty questionable.

Men ARE all the same. We all want ONE thing. 1770, 1870's 1970. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. If women did not have that ONE thing men would not even give a crap about women at all. Period. The fact women do not understand that baffles me for what is supposed to be the smarter gender. One night stands are a way to try out the goods and bail if you suck in bed.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Some Indians are Muslim. Though he isnt really a practicing Muslim.

Different thread. Are you anything if you don't practice? Muslims and Jews seem to think they are born into it. Catholics must practice, at least a bit (C&E crowd), for me to consider them Catholic.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,591]

But Catholics and christians can be bashed for their religion at all times. Muslims are off limits.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Different thread. Are you anything if you don't practice? Muslims and Jews seem to think they are born into it. Catholics must practice, at least a bit (C&E crowd), for me to consider them Catholic.

Im saying he grew up in a Muslim household but doesnt actually practice the religion.

Same I would say for myself if I quit attending Catholic mass and doing anything with the religion.

 

Anyone trying to make this about Islam is an idiot.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,591]

Im saying he grew up in a Muslim household but doesnt actually practice the religion.

Same I would say for myself if I quit attending Catholic mass and doing anything with the religion.

 

Anyone trying to make this about Islam is an idiot.

Sure. Just like anyone trying to make pedophilia a Christian thing is. Nobody ever does that.

[naomi 343]

Men ARE all the same. We all want ONE thing. 1770, 1870's 1970. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. If women did not have that ONE thing men would not even give a crap about women at all. Period. The fact women do not understand that baffles me for what is supposed to be the smarter gender.

 

There must be a ton of women in between the sexual revolution and now who have navigated things without bitterness and resentment, but what I gather is, all the same, there is still a significant number of women who have trusted the deceptive act that leads into 'one and done' encounters OR were banking on something more coming from it, knowing initially it has the vibe of casual sex. If that's true, it makes me pissed off at the indoctrination in the 90's and 00's through popular culture for young women. It didn't jive with reality...it told them to be OK with it, when many are not able to be.

 

Popular culture morality since then...what the younger millennials have had, I can't really speak to, only the way things are being processed right now. It's giving legitimacy to legitimate hurt, it's just a huge mess because there is true blame to be had in some situations and not in others.

 

Off-topic, but I hope most people "give a crap" about fellow human beings as a general principle.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Im saying he grew up in a Muslim household but doesnt actually practice the religion.

Same I would say for myself if I quit attending Catholic mass and doing anything with the religion.

 

Anyone trying to make this about Islam is an idiot.

Someone else brought Islam into it. The article brought the fact that he is brown into it. Neither has to do with his rapey behavior.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Someone else brought Islam into it. The article brought the fact that he is brown into it. Neither has to do with his rapey behavior.

Do you think what has been described in this claim is actually rapey behavior?

Im not saying you brought it up...Im saying anyone trying to make this about Islam is an idiot as the guy isnt some devout Muslim at all. Making it about Islam would be pure ignorance.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,591]

Do you think what has been described in this claim is actually rapey behavior?

Im not saying you brought it up...Im saying anyone trying to make this about Islam is an idiot as the guy isnt some devout Muslim at all. Making it about Islam would be pure ignorance.

You're a child. Seriously.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Judging by the amount of ignore notifications...RP is talking about Islam and begging for attention.

[naomi 343]

Men ARE all the same. We all want ONE thing. 1770, 1870's 1970. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. If women did not have that ONE thing men would not even give a crap about women at all. Period. The fact women do not understand that baffles me for what is supposed to be the smarter gender. One night stands are a way to try out the goods and bail if you suck in bed.

 

Since I lean cynic, I don't fully reject this, I'm sure it describes a significant amount of men. But when you say things like this I get this picture of a trashy, low brow dude who, being that 'birds of a feather flock together', hasn't met (though he may not deserve to either) a female he could be able to be attracted to in a broader sense. You attract what you're putting out there. Or maybe you just like men far far more, just not sexually. But even that could change easily if you were in the right cultural setting. In cultures where it's been defined that women are just a certain utility, and not welcome otherwise, there's always been rampant homosexuality. There's also never been anything noble about them on any front either. Survival would always come down to power and resources being kept up at all times, not character of the average person and sustaining principles like liberty.

[fandandy 3,311]

 

Since I lean cynic, I don't fully reject this, I'm sure it describes a significant amount of men. But when you say things like this I get this picture of a trashy, low brow dude who, being that 'birds of a feather flock together', hasn't met (though he may not deserve to either) a female he could be able to be attracted to in a broader sense. You attract what you're putting out there. Or maybe you just like men far far more, just not sexually. But even that could change easily if you were in the right cultural setting. In cultures where it's been defined that women are just a certain utility, and not welcome otherwise, there's always been rampant homosexuality. There's also never been anything noble about them on any front either. Survival would always come down to power and resources being kept up at all times, not character of the average person and sustaining principles like liberty.

Cliff's Notes:

 

She thinks you're a queer, Kilroy.

[wiffleball 4,631]

Geesus....

[kilroy69 993]

 

Since I lean cynic, I don't fully reject this, I'm sure it describes a significant amount of men. But when you say things like this I get this picture of a trashy, low brow dude who, being that 'birds of a feather flock together', hasn't met (though he may not deserve to either) a female he could be able to be attracted to in a broader sense.

EVERY MAN you have ever met has made a snap judgment about you. Fuckable or not. If you are attention gets paid to you. If you are not you are invisible. EVERY MAN. Not just low brow men. If you are really good looking(to that man) and have ANY type of personality men will want to do more that fuckk you. But by that time the judgment has already been made.

[Gladiators 1,903]

EVERY MAN you have ever met has made a snap judgment about you. Fuckable or not. If you are attention gets paid to you. If you are not you are invisible. EVERY MAN. Not just low brow men.

 

Wrong. There are some qweers out there. Also, I would throw in an age range...I'll go PC with 18 - 60. Other than that, I agree.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Do you think what has been described in this claim is actually rapey behavior?

Im not saying you brought it up...Im saying anyone trying to make this about Islam is an idiot as the guy isnt some devout Muslim at all. Making it about Islam would be pure ignorance.

Yes, I think it was rapey behavior. Do I think most men have engaged in similar behavior at some point? Yes. While I wasn't there, both his and her account confirm he was not looking for signs of hesitation.

[jerryskids 5,172]

 

Since I lean cynic, I don't fully reject this, I'm sure it describes a significant amount of men. But when you say things like this I get this picture of a trashy, low brow dude who, being that 'birds of a feather flock together', hasn't met (though he may not deserve to either) a female he could be able to be attracted to in a broader sense. You attract what you're putting out there. Or maybe you just like men far far more, just not sexually. But even that could change easily if you were in the right cultural setting. In cultures where it's been defined that women are just a certain utility, and not welcome otherwise, there's always been rampant homosexuality. There's also never been anything noble about them on any front either. Survival would always come down to power and resources being kept up at all times, not character of the average person and sustaining principles like liberty.

 

 

Cliff's Notes:

 

She thinks you're a queer, Kilroy.

 

IKR?! I was just about to post that that was the most highbrow way of calling someone a phag I've ever seen.

[naomi 343]

EVERY MAN you have ever met has made a snap judgment about you. Fuckable or not. If you are attention gets paid to you. If you are not you are invisible. EVERY MAN. Not just low brow men.

 

Personally this isn't a suprising thought to me. It's not this part of your thought I'm responding to though. It's the 'not giving a crap at all about women' part.

 

I think women do this too, but it's more like the radar pings if it's a male we could get intimate with. My mind doesn't get specific in the moment, it just recognizes there's something alluring there. It doesn't identify who we don't find attractive, because that's just the norm. Exceptions register. This is a mostly subconscious dynamic. The only way I can interpret "not giving a crap about" all the men who don't register is a cold, narcissistic reaction. Definitely not what happens. People are people.

[kilroy69 993]

Yes, I think it was rapey behavior. Do I think most men have engaged in similar behavior at some point? Yes. While I wasn't there, both his and her account confirm he was not looking for signs of hesitation.

After a night out and coming back to HIS house after? Why would he be looking for signs of hesitation?

[Sho Nuff 719]

Yes, I think it was rapey behavior. Do I think most men have engaged in similar behavior at some point? Yes. While I wasn't there, both his and her account confirm he was not looking for signs of hesitation.

Her account appear there were no actual signs of it.

I dont believe what even she described was rapey at all.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Her account appear there were no actual signs of it.

I dont believe what even she described was rapey at all.

Wow. Her account is pretty bad, IMO. Perhaps you should read it.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,591]

This guy is not a rapist, but he's definetly pathetic. If he only wanted to bang her, fine. But the moment she shows she's not enthusiastic about banging, you nicely send her on her way and call one of the numerous star fockers you should have on speed dial to swing by for a booty call.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Wow. Her account is pretty bad, IMO. Perhaps you should read it.

The one where she says she never told him no...didnt say a word...then later decided she was uncomfortable?

[tanatastic 2,061]

Classic case of regret spun to look like victimization. He did nothing wrong. Cant stand the old "I was paralyzed with fear and couldnt move so I let him do it.". No, you can just say no or get agitated and we will get the point.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

The one where she says she never told him no...didnt say a word...then later decided she was uncomfortable?

So all communication must be verbal. Got it. I wonder how your wife would view that.

[kilroy69 993]

Wow. Her account is pretty bad, IMO. Perhaps you should read it.

her account is weak as Fock. If she were to go to the cops and tell them that they would laugh at her. Gimme a focking break.

[Sho Nuff 719]

So all communication must be verbal. Got it. I wonder how your wife would view that.

All...no. But it seemed there was most certainly consent.

Acting disinterested doesnt really make it rapey.

Maybe she sucks at sex and is a cold fish. It happens.

 

I dont know...but this story seems a bit off as far as actual sexual misconduct.

 

As for my wife...some of you have serious problems where every disagreement must try to get personal. Its sad and pathetic.

[shotsup 831]

Forget about teaching my boys to drink or not to drink.

Need to teach them how to choose the Tang correctly - although I don't know if there is a right way anymore.

 

Crazy (Stupid) Sh1t.

[naomi 343]

Even in the body of the OP the fact she gave verbal cues is mentioned. Here's her account. "I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’” (The boldest occasion, but there's another verbal one, and a few physical retreats wherein he followed her). They did not just chill after that^.

 

So I was thinking she should have just left (or not gone in the first place) at the first sign he was wanting to get busy, since she didn't want to. And I still think that, but the rub, which I didn't understand...she is really familiar with his material and apparently he focuses on romantic situations between sexes, even wrote a book on it, and intellectually she couldn't understand that he wasn't getting her cues (or accept that he was ignoring them).

[kilroy69 993]

If you go to someones house after drinks and dinner you know what the fock is about to happen. If you don't say no. Or get up and leave the situation. But instead have sex with him. That is on YOU. Its not rape. Its not sexual assault. What she is doing is is character assassination from behind a veil.

[naomi 343]

If you go to someones house after drinks and dinner you know what the fock is about to happen. If you don't say no. Or get up and leave the situation. But instead have sex with him. That is on YOU. Its not rape. Its not sexual assault. What she is doing is is character assassination from behind a veil.

 

There's not enough to say that he was an intentional ahole, and yes, technically, if I put myself in your apartment, where all this grey happens, with not enough to say for sure you were intentionally an ahole, I'm keeping it to myself.

 

Anyway, apparently she thought it would be possible to go back to his place and get somewhat close but not actually have sex, or maybe just not have it so quickly. It sounds like she got turned off by him because he was unexpectedly fast with everything, like this perception of him was starting to crash down, and she was mentally reconciling that while moving from one spot in his apartment to the next as he followed.

 

Things she did: Verbal cues. Got up and left.

[fandandy 3,311]

 

Grace says she spent around five minutes in the bathroom, collecting herself in the mirror and splashing herself with water. Then she went back to Ansari. He asked her if she was okay. “I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you,” she said.

She told babe that at first, she was happy with how he reacted. “He said, ‘Oh, of course, it’s only fun if we’re both having fun.’ The response was technically very sweet and acknowledging the fact that I was very uncomfortable. Verbally, in that moment, he acknowledged that I needed to take it slow. Then he said, ‘Let’s just chill over here on the couch.’”

This moment is particularly significant for Grace, because she thought that would be the end of the sexual encounter — her remark about not wanting to feel “forced” had added a verbal component to the cues she was trying to give him about her discomfort. When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair — something to calm her down.

Ansari instructed her to turn around. “He sat back and pointed to his ###### and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did.

 

This is where she loses me.

 

Maybe regret it after, but if you suck a guys ###### simply because he points at it, that's kinda on you.

[Gladiators 1,903]

This is where she loses me.

 

Maybe regret it after, but if you suck a guys ###### simply because he points at it, that's kinda on you.

Agreed. In fact, he might be able to claim sexual assault.

[naomi 343]

This is where she loses me.

 

Maybe regret it after, but if you suck a guys ###### simply because he points at it, that's kinda on you.

 

In her defense it was a 180 type action after the conversation they had just had. But yes, still on her. I actually understand (though do not relate to) how her psyche was working there, but just because I understand it, it doesn't mean that it at all sounds sensible to use in laying blame, because it doesn't.

 

"And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable.”

[kilroy69 993]

 

Things she did: Verbal cues. Got up and left after consensual sex.

fixed.