how tennis exposes...

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I draw the line at the cup by the register at Dunken. The worker is simply handing me the items I ordered right at the counter, no different than McDs or any other fast food joint.

I I would never tip them.

 

Waitress? Yes.

 

If I actually use the services of a bellhop or someone to carry my luggage, probably. I rarely do though.

 

Delivery guy? Yeah.

 

Barber, massage chick? No. Im already paying for your service.

 

Housekeeping at a hotel (the little envelopes) no.

 

Bartender... depends. You pop the top off a bottle of beer? No. My girl orders some elaborate focking drink that takes you ten minutes to make? Yeah.

 

Mailman and garbage man at Christmas? Fock no.

[tanatastic 2,061]

I I would never tip them.

Waitress? Yes.

If I actually use the services of a bellhop or someone to carry my luggage, probably. I rarely do though.

Delivery guy? Yeah.

Barber, massage chick? No. Im already paying for your service.

Housekeeping at a hotel (the little envelopes) no.

Bartender... depends. You pop the top off a bottle of beer? No. My girl orders some elaborate focking drink that takes you ten minutes to make? Yeah.

Mailman and garbage man at Christmas? Fock no.

Agree with all these. I hate tipping bartenders but I toss a buck if they make my drink usually. Drinks are already obscenely overpriced. Massage especially agree and goes triple if it’s an “independent” provider. The payment for service is what I’m paying for.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Agree with all these. I hate tipping bartenders but I toss a buck if they make my drink usually. Drinks are already obscenely overpriced. Massage especially agree and goes triple if its an independent provider. The payment for service is what Im paying for.

Happy ending exception right? And yeah, it depends if shes independent or if Im paying the owner.

[MDC 5,890]

I I would never tip them.

 

Waitress? Yes.

 

If I actually use the services of a bellhop or someone to carry my luggage, probably. I rarely do though.

 

Delivery guy? Yeah.

 

Barber, massage chick? No. Im already paying for your service.

 

Housekeeping at a hotel (the little envelopes) no.

 

Bartender... depends. You pop the top off a bottle of beer? No. My girl orders some elaborate focking drink that takes you ten minutes to make? Yeah.

 

Mailman and garbage man at Christmas? Fock no.

I tip bartenders and the person who cuts my hair. Otherwise we are in agreement.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,618]

You focks don't tip the hotel maid? They deserve it a lot more than some skank bartender.

[MDC 5,890]

I do tip the hotel maid.

[Gladiators 1,904]

You focks don't tip the hotel maid? They deserve it a lot more than some skank bartender.

Depending on how she looks, she may get more than the tip.

[tanatastic 2,061]

You focks don't tip the hotel maid? They deserve it a lot more than some skank bartender.

Never even considered it or knew it was a thing. Agreed they work hard, but thats the job. I dont leave the rooms a mess.

[penultimatestraw 473]

they both sold out, he had no point

TV ratings mean nothing? And how do sell outs reflect the popularity of men's tennis vs. women's?

[penultimatestraw 473]

I said this:

Most sports, yes. Tennis is probably the only decent example, as men's and women's tennis are roughly equal popularity (read: generate similar revenue).

But you thought this:

Men always draw more. Period. Show me a sport where women draw equal or more attendance in equal sports. Any. I'll wait.

Until I gave you examples where they were roughly equal, at which point you backed off. But still insist I'm wrong

But it doesnt. You used 2 years of the entire US open, and one year of Wimbledons. Now, wanna compare allllllllllll the other years of all other tennis tourneys?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Never even considered it or knew it was a thing. Agreed they work hard, but thats the job. I dont leave the rooms a mess.

You're supposed to tip them daily, with a larger sum the day you leave.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I tip barbers, housekeepers and servers at restaurants.

 

Never use bartenders, valets, masseuses, coat dudes, bell hops, etc.

 

Postal workers and garbage collectors aren't supposed to accept tips IIRC.

 

If food is served at a counter and I clean up after myself, no tip.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

You're supposed to tip them daily, with a larger sum the day you leave.

I usually leave do not disturb on the door the whole time Im there anyway. I dont need daily maid service and dont want you going through my sh!t.

[crackattack 513]

I said this:

But you thought this:

Until I gave you examples where they were roughly equal, at which point you backed off. But still insist I'm wrong

Ok. I'll fix my wording. Outside of maybe 3 or 4 examples, men's tennis has dominated women's in ratings. In the centuries old game, you gave me 3-4 times. Does that help or hurt your argument?

 

Eta. Would you like to compare all the other non major tournament's also?

[crackattack 513]

Some sobering facts.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-35859791&ved=2ahUKEwiG1f_f6pXbAhUB0YMKHZqlA5cQFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2y2aFENnfxpZ-Odn8dvOew&ampcf=1

 

So, outside of a couple years, it's a male dominated sport. Men more then double yearly viewership.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I usually leave do not disturb on the door the whole time Im there anyway. I dont need daily maid service and dont want you going through my sh!t.

Me too. But I give them $10-20 when I depart.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Ok. I'll fix my wording. Outside of maybe 3 or 4 examples, men's tennis has dominated women's in ratings. In the centuries old game, you gave me 3-4 times. Does that help or hurt your argument?

 

Eta. Would you like to compare all the other non major tournament's also?

It would be interesting to see the stats for all tournaments, at least the ATP Masters/WTA + Grand Slams. Rafa and Roger still playing keeps has helped men's tennis considerably. I guess you can say the same about Serena.

 

Even if women draw less than men, outside the majors, I bet the pay isn't proportionate to the revenue they generate vs. men.

[crackattack 513]

Some sobering facts.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-35859791&ved=2ahUKEwiG1f_f6pXbAhUB0YMKHZqlA5cQFjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2y2aFENnfxpZ-Odn8dvOew&ampcf=1

 

So, outside of a couple years, it's a male dominated sport. Men more then double yearly viewership.

Bumb

[crackattack 513]

So. More viewers, more tickets sold, and longer matches should mean equal pay? Nope. Sorry.

[penultimatestraw 473]

So. More viewers, more tickets sold, and longer matches should mean equal pay? Nope. Sorry.

OK, you've convinced me. That still doesn't negate the gap outside the sporting world.

[crackattack 513]

OK, you've convinced me. That still doesn't negate the gap outside the sporting world.

I'll never do that. To many factors. It's never just based on gender alone. That's a fallacy.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I'll never do that. To many factors. It's never just based on gender alone. That's a fallacy.

It's never overtly just due to gender. But there is a ~5% pay difference which can't be accounted for when all the confounders are considered.

 

If you recognize some people get preferential treatment, isn't also possible that not everyone gets fair pay based on their experience/performance?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,618]

Worked many years with a good percentage of women. But for a few, the histrionics on display when it came to doing overtime were pretty funny.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Women at work definitely talk more, and some are histrionic. But on average, I'd say the average female physician in my group works harder than the men.

[crackattack 513]

It's never overtly just due to gender. But there is a ~5% pay difference which can't be accounted for when all the confounders are considered.

 

If you recognize some people get preferential treatment, isn't also possible that not everyone gets fair pay based on their experience/performance?

Ok. Let's go with that. What percentage of women are underpaid? What is the percentage of females in the workforce? What's the experience difference? What's the education difference? What's the OT gap? What's the field of expertise? What's the male/female breakdown in said fields? So on and so on.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Me too. But I give them $10-20 when I depart.

I just finished planning the honeymoon. My parents are coming too, as you cant ask someone to fly halfway around the world, come to a wedding, and then go home. Plus theyve never met the fiancé, so it will be nice to let them get to know each other.

 

I have determined that I travel very differently from them, buffet aside. They go somewhere, stay in one resort, and go on the occasional excursion.

 

I never stay in any given hotel more than 2-3 nights in a row, and move on to another town. I like to plan a linear trip. Fly into a country at airport A, hit two or three places by bus or train, and fly home via an airport on the far end.

 

They also get very nice expensive places and spend a lot of time there. I get two star places and only use it to sleep really.

 

Different styles I guess.

[Strike 3,956]

Ok. Let's go with that. What percentage of women are underpaid? What is the percentage of females in the workforce? What's the experience difference? What's the education difference? What's the OT gap? What's the field of expertise? What's the male/female breakdown in said fields? So on and so on.

 

Earlier in this thread he said there was a gender pay gap for teachers. I asked him for proof considering pretty much all teachers are unionized and I doubt a union contract would allow for that. I'm still waiting for him to respond.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,569]

 

Earlier in this thread he said there was a gender pay gap for teachers. I asked him for proof considering pretty much all teachers are unionized and I doubt a union contract would allow for that. I'm still waiting for him to respond.

 

I am still waiting for a job listing myself that says

 

Get a Job straight out of college

 

Men earn 40k right away

Women earn 34k right away

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

I am still waiting for a job listing myself that says

 

Get a Job straight out of college

 

Men earn 40k right away

Women earn 34k right away

Or show me a single successful lawsuit alleging disparate wage practices.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,569]

Or show me a single successful lawsuit alleging disparate wage practices.

 

I will accept that as well

[penultimatestraw 473]

Or show me a single successful lawsuit alleging disparate wage practices.

I will accept that as well

How about this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-pays-38m-settle-equal-pay-lawsuit-female-safety-agents-article-1.1918265

A little more subtle, but same general idea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins

And others here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_equality_lawsuits

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

I am still waiting for a job listing myself that says

 

Get a Job straight out of college

 

Men earn 40k right away

Women earn 34k right away

You will never see such flagrant discrimination, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

Earlier in this thread he said there was a gender pay gap for teachers. I asked him for proof considering pretty much all teachers are unionized and I doubt a union contract would allow for that. I'm still waiting for him to respond.

Reference the original article I linked. Again, it ain't gonna be stipulated directly in the union contract, women earn x, men earn y. You can't possibly be this dense.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

How about this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-pays-38m-settle-equal-pay-lawsuit-female-safety-agents-article-1.1918265

A little more subtle, but same general idea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins

And others here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_equality_lawsuits

Well in the first one, the men guard hospitals and homeless shelters. You know, places full of adults. Gangbangers, junkies and such.

 

The women guard elementary schools full of finger paining toddlers.

 

Wonder why one gets paid more.

 

But anyway, your article did illustrate that there is already a mechanism for such alleged discrimination to be redressed. So no further law needed.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Well in the first one, the men guard hospitals and homeless shelters. You know, places full of adults. Gangbangers, junkies and such.

 

The women guard elementary schools full of finger paining toddlers.

 

Wonder why one gets paid more.

 

But anyway, your article did illustrate that there is already a mechanism for such alleged discrimination to be redressed. So no further law needed.

You just asked for a successful lawsuit which resulted from disparate pay practices. I gave you several. While we don't know all the reasons the chicks were assigned to schools versus hospitals/shelters, part of the pay gap reflects unequal opportunity, as women are assigned certain roles, men others. Obviously the duties were similar enough to warrant a multimillion dollar settlement, so something must have been up.

 

And I didn't say additional laws were needed. I just acknowledged there is a pay disparity for women, even when all other things are equal.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

You just asked for a successful lawsuit which resulted from disparate pay practices. I gave you several. While we don't know all the reasons the chicks were assigned to schools versus hospitals/shelters, part of the pay gap reflects unequal opportunity, as women are assigned certain roles, men others. Obviously the duties were similar enough to warrant a multimillion dollar settlement, so something must have been up.

 

And I didn't say additional laws were needed. I just acknowledged there is a pay disparity for women, even when all other things are equal.

Its that last but thats the catch. All other things are equal.

 

Statistics can be manipulated to say anything. And without looking far further than I give a crap to into any one case, who knows what the actual circumstances are?

 

For example, was maternity leave figured in? Who knows?

 

The case was also settled. That doesnt mean there was actual liability. Could have decided it was cheaper to pay than fight. Who knows?

 

Im not even definitively saying there isnt such a problem. Maybe there is. But there seems to be quite a rush to discuss a problem that hasnt been proven, to me anyway, to exist.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Its that last but thats the catch. All other things are equal.

 

Statistics can be manipulated to say anything. And without looking far further than I give a crap to into any one case, who knows what the actual circumstances are?

 

For example, was maternity leave figured in? Who knows?

 

The case was also settled. That doesnt mean there was actual liability. Could have decided it was cheaper to pay than fight. Who knows?

 

Im not even definitively saying there isnt such a problem. Maybe there is. But there seems to be quite a rush to discuss a problem that hasnt been proven, to me anyway, to exist.

I'm not sure how you can deny it exists. There's a sh!tload of variables, of course. But when economists do their best to control them, the disparity is still there.

[Strike 3,956]

Reference the original article I linked. Again, it ain't gonna be stipulated directly in the union contract, women earn x, men earn y. You can't possibly be this dense.

What a load of crap.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,569]

How about this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-pays-38m-settle-equal-pay-lawsuit-female-safety-agents-article-1.1918265

A little more subtle, but same general idea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pao_v._Kleiner_Perkins

And others here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_equality_lawsuits

 

Obviously TBB covered the first one. If two people are trained exactly the same, but do a different job, at a different location, that can mean different pay, I wouldn't have settled. The only women that go in on this settlement were the ones guarding kindergarten and elementary schools. It didn't even say that only men worked at hospitals or homeless shelters, and I am willing to bet that if any women worked there they did get equal pay. Risk of job requirements will usually lead to higher pay.

 

no 2 spurned lover didn't get a promotion, courts found in favor of the company, meaning there was no proof that she was passed over or terminated BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN

 

"others" are legal cases not about discrimination and not even all from the United States

if you go into the vast majority of those cases, you will see that they really have no relevance on this discussion

[penultimatestraw 473]

What a load of crap.

About the critical thought I expected from you. Carry on.