++ Update: Zeke looking at suspension - 6 Games

[weepaws 2,450]

What would be truly serious.

 

Maybe they should, wait until he is driving over 100 mph and kills someone.

 

No I have a good ideal, let's stop it now before it goes that far, much better ideal.

 

Let's save a life.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,556]

The Cowboy way

[giraldi02 470]

Lol

[Cruzer 1,992]

The pathetic, welching way.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,556]

Wrong board

[Cruzer 1,992]

When you reach, you really, really reach..

 

Sad.

[jaxjag 43]

 

 

No, I assure you, I get it. You're making the exact same arguments I was making a few years ago when I said that the Bucs shouldn't draft Winston because he shows a continual lack of good judgement. You know what, I was wrong and Winston grew up. I'm giving Elliott the benefit of the doubt that I should have given Winston. Don't tell me what Winston did wasn't as bad. At the time, there was cause to believe he raped a girl. Elliott did nothing that severe.

 

"How does the league or the team tell a guy to get his crap together before something serious happens?" With words. That's it. If he doesn't get it, that's on him. Personal accountability. It's that simple. History is full of examples of what you should or should not do or say so he knows what's right or wrong. You just enforce it by addressing him about it. Suspending him won't change anything. Fining his isn't going to change anything. You know as well as I do how many players have been suspended or fined multiple times for the same offense.

 

What he did isn't that big of deal. When he does something that is a big deal, then it can be addressed. Until then, it's on his family, friends, teammates, and coaches (the league can chime in too), to tell him to calm down. If he doesn't, that's on him.

 

Other than drafting the guy in a fantasy league, it isn't up to us to pass judgement.

 

Elliott IS flirting with disaster. Hawkeye has valid concerns. Elliott may have have just dodged a bullet from the bar fight due to a lack of witnesses (or simply swept under the rug) but you know the league is paying attention.

 

Maybe Winston got a good lecture; understands that he is the face of the franchise; appreciates the lucrative opportunity in front of him.

 

Maybe Elliott needs the same thing.

[seafoam1 1,878]

 

 

No, I assure you, I get it. You're making the exact same arguments I was making a few years ago when I said that the Bucs shouldn't draft Winston because he shows a continual lack of good judgement. You know what, I was wrong and Winston grew up. I'm giving Elliott the benefit of the doubt that I should have given Winston. Don't tell me what Winston did wasn't as bad. At the time, there was cause to believe he raped a girl. Elliott did nothing that severe.

 

"How does the league or the team tell a guy to get his crap together before something serious happens?" With words. That's it. If he doesn't get it, that's on him. Personal accountability. It's that simple. History is full of examples of what you should or should not do or say so he knows what's right or wrong. You just enforce it by addressing him about it. Suspending him won't change anything. Fining his isn't going to change anything. You know as well as I do how many players have been suspended or fined multiple times for the same offense.

 

What he did isn't that big of deal. When he does something that is a big deal, then it can be addressed. Until then, it's on his family, friends, teammates, and coaches (the league can chime in too), to tell him to calm down. If he doesn't, that's on him.

Why give someone the benefit of the doubt because someone else who did crappy things stopped being so social in their personal life or maybe even became a better person. There are plenty of examples of stupid people still doing stupid things. If someone in fantasy football thinks it is a risk to draft him high under these circumstances, I think that is valid. If you are a social worker, then what he might have done is a big deal. As a person seeking entertainment, you may just be desensitized to what kind of life these guys are living in. If you or anyone in your daily life ends up in a hospital with physical damage, then its a big deal. I don't know what he did or didn't do, but I do know that he is not smart enough to stop putting himself in possible bad situations. He knew he was under scrutiny, and he still doesn't care... And there are plenty of athletes (entertainers that is), that don't stop the drama.

[Ray_T 587]

Why give someone the benefit of the doubt because someone else who did crappy things stopped being so social in their personal life or maybe even became a better person. There are plenty of examples of stupid people still doing stupid things. If someone in fantasy football thinks it is a risk to draft him high under these circumstances, I think that is valid. If you are a social worker, then what he might have done is a big deal. As a person seeking entertainment, you may just be desensitized to what kind of life these guys are living in. If you or anyone in your daily life ends up in a hospital with physical damage, then its a big deal. I don't know what he did or didn't do, but I do know that he is not smart enough to stop putting himself in possible bad situations. He knew he was under scrutiny, and he still doesn't care... And there are plenty of athletes (entertainers that is), that don't stop the drama.

you are right.

 

of course I have to think that if you put millions of dollars into the hands of a 22 year old kid, this is sometimes the end result.

 

Especially when the kid comes from a background where they have never seen this kinda cash before.

 

It's a bit of a culture shock I"m sure. I honestly dont even know what kind of thing to suggest to fix it. It just happens sometimes and I doubt any well meaning person can stop it from happening.

[sirensong 111]

we can certainly question elliott's judgment WRT jeopardizing his career, but if by the age of 22 you had not been in a bar fight, driven over 100mph in a vehicle, and had relationship drama, then i have serious doubts about your masculinity.

[polecatt 399]

we can certainly question elliott's judgment WRT jeopardizing his career, but if by the age of 22 you had not been in a bar fight, driven over 100mph in a vehicle, and had relationship drama, then i have serious doubts about your masculinity.

Lol,

How to be a man at age 22

[seafoam1 1,878]

we can certainly question elliott's judgment WRT jeopardizing his career, but if by the age of 22 you had not been in a bar fight, driven over 100mph in a vehicle, and had relationship drama, then i have serious doubts about your masculinity.

When did the definition of man start at 35+? I can see someone at 22 having an a single bar fight. or maybe not being great at relationship or even having a penchant for fast cars (although driving 100+ is borderline crazy on public roads), but to have all three and probably more....? You can also add Elliots desire to go against authority (both work and country) and his lack of concern about all this social perception. Those are normally 16-17 year old traits when nobody even is counting on you to deliver on your contract you agreed with.

Anyway, he's just another one that lives in his own desires at the cost of others.

[seafoam1 1,878]

Lol,

How to be a man at age 22

I know. Right of passage to be a man:

1) Beat the hell out of someone

2) Drive extremely recklessly putting lives in danger

3) Have a bad relationship

4) Treat the contract with your new employer like it's an afterthought

5) Act like a 16 year old in fighting against "the man's rules".

Word's of wisdom....

[R8RMick 242]

Much ado about nothing, he's a Cowboy. Nothing to see here!

[polecatt 399]

 

I know. Right of passage to be a man:

1) Beat the hell out of someone

2) Drive extremely recklessly putting lives in danger

3) Have a bad relationship

4) Treat the contract with your new employer like it's an afterthought

5) Act like a 16 year old in fighting against "the man's rules".

Word's of wisdom....

 

Yeah and then you learn to grow up, lol

[sirensong 111]

 

I know. Right of passage to be a man:

1) Beat the hell out of someone

2) Drive extremely recklessly putting lives in danger

3) Have a bad relationship

4) Treat the contract with your new employer like it's an afterthought

5) Act like a 16 year old in fighting against "the man's rules".

Word's of wisdom....

 

 

 

testosterone is an actual thing--it isn't a social construct. it's a performance-enhancing substance with very powerful side effects, including increased aggression, impulsiveness, and risk-taking behaviors. high-testosterone males (like soldiers, athletes, and even some kinds of musician) present these kinds of behaviors, while low-T omega males are much more calculating, avoidant and risk-averse.

 

it isn't a question of what ought to be--it's just a manifestation of what is. football selects for high testosterone on both physical (mass, strength, explosiveness) and mental (high drive, high aggression, risk-favorable) levels, so it shouldn't be a surprise to see this stuff present off the field as well as on. and when someone is particularly risk-averse (especially at a young age), it suggests a deficiency of testosterone, which in turn suggests that the other low-T behaviors are present (even if they aren't immediately evident).

[Skanker 0]

I'm guessing he gets a 2-game suspension, gets it reduced to 1.

[seafoam1 1,878]

 

 

testosterone is an actual thing--it isn't a social construct. it's a performance-enhancing substance with very powerful side effects, including increased aggression, impulsiveness, and risk-taking behaviors. high-testosterone males (like soldiers, athletes, and even some kinds of musician) present these kinds of behaviors, while low-T omega males are much more calculating, avoidant and risk-averse.

 

it isn't a question of what ought to be--it's just a manifestation of what is. football selects for high testosterone on both physical (mass, strength, explosiveness) and mental (high drive, high aggression, risk-favorable) levels, so it shouldn't be a surprise to see this stuff present off the field as well as on. and when someone is particularly risk-averse (especially at a young age), it suggests a deficiency of testosterone, which in turn suggests that the other low-T behaviors are present (even if they aren't immediately evident).

The mind is a powerful thing. Im not buying excuses for people who refuse to use it. Especially when you have extreme resources to assist you to use it. We all have seen examples of good people in life that are sports players and non sports players. We also see bad selfish people in life both sports players and non sports players.

 

Elliot is choosing the latter. He's not a typical confused 16 year old anymore. It is his choice to think things through before he puts himself in these situations. Or not.

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

The mind is a powerful thing. Im not buying excuses for people who refuse to use it. Especially when you have extreme resources to assist you to use it. We all have seen examples of good people in life that are sports players and non sports players. We also see bad selfish people in life both sports players and non sports players.

 

Elliot is choosing the latter. He's not a typical confused 16 year old anymore. It is his choice to think things through before he puts himself in these situations. Or not.

 

You could stop there, drop the mic, and win every argument you ever get into with just those 2 sentences.

[sirensong 111]

The mind is a powerful thing. Im not buying excuses for people who refuse to use it. Especially when you have extreme resources to assist you to use it. We all have seen examples of good people in life that are sports players and non sports players. We also see bad selfish people in life both sports players and non sports players.

 

Elliot is choosing the latter. He's not a typical confused 16 year old anymore. It is his choice to think things through before he puts himself in these situations. Or not.

 

 

you seem to be having trouble with the concept of "excuse". excusing something is to claim that it is acceptable due to mitigating factors. no one is saying that elliott's behavior is acceptable. everyone is saying that it needs to change.

[seafoam1 1,878]

 

 

you seem to be having trouble with the concept of "excuse". excusing something is to claim that it is acceptable due to mitigating factors. no one is saying that elliott's behavior is acceptable. everyone is saying that it needs to change.

Well, in your words "it shouldn't be a suprise to see this happen". As well as "it's simply a manifestation of what is".

 

My take is that I am always suprised to see continuous stupid violent behavior from the same individual instead that person making simple mistakes and learning from them. Get over that whole testosterone thing when talking about endangering other people's safety.

[shovelheadt 60]

I personally think he deserves a game or 2. Maybe it will pull his head out of his ass. That being said, how in good faith can you give this guy any kid of suspension with Adam Jones only getting a game after telling a cop "I hope you die" and "suck my cack"....along with spitting on a nurse. Combine that with his prior history and he should have gotten half a year at least.

[phillygrrl08 139]

we can certainly question elliott's judgment WRT jeopardizing his career, but if by the age of 22 you had not been in a bar fight, driven over 100mph in a vehicle, and had relationship drama, then i have serious doubts about your masculinity.

 

Right, but smart masculine men don't get caught or do dumb crap when people are videotaping

 

Ok, who is Zeke's backup? McFadden?

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

 

Right, but smart masculine men don't get caught or do dumb crap when people are videotaping

 

Ok, who is Zeke's backup? McFadden?

Should be McFadden and he's certainly worth a late round draft pick if there.

[double tour 50]

 

Right, but smart masculine men don't get caught or do dumb crap when people are videotaping

 

Ok, who is Zeke's backup? McFadden?

Not sure how his statement at all is "right", aside from getting caught being a negative in your eyes, but I guess that is what you see as masculine? Who am I to judge?

 

How about some advice from you?

To impress my girl, should I beat the crap out of someone, drive 100+ on the roadways, and have a serious relationship issue with her before I dare propose to her? I mean, I'm pretty sure she likes a masculine man, as opposed to those feminine men that don't do those things to prove their masculinity as defined above.

 

I mean, what if I get pulled over or kill someone before I get to boast about it? Or what if I don't beat the crap out of someone because their friend stuck me with a knife before I got to that manly action? Or what if my girl calls the cops cause I hit or threatened her when we have these man defining relationship problems? Hmm.

 

I have so much to learn from Elliot and you all....

[phillygrrl08 139]

Not sure how his statement at all is "right", aside from getting caught being a negative in your eyes, but I guess that is what you see as masculine? Who am I to judge?

 

How about some advice from you?

To impress my girl, should I beat the crap out of someone, drive 100+ on the roadways, and have a serious relationship issue with her before I dare propose to her? I mean, I'm pretty sure she likes a masculine man, as opposed to those feminine men that don't do those things to prove their masculinity as defined above.

 

I mean, what if I get pulled over or kill someone before I get to boast about it? Or what if I don't beat the crap out of someone because their friend stuck me with a knife before I got to that manly action? Or what if my girl calls the cops cause I hit or threatened her when we have these man defining relationship problems? Hmm.

 

I have so much to learn from Elliot and you all....

 

This will only work if you are in the NFL. Until then, continue being an upstanding citizen and a good role model for those around you.

[polecatt 399]

 

This will only work if you are in the NFL. Until then, continue being an upstanding citizen and a good role model for those around you.

That's the double standard that guys like Zeke unfortunately fall for

[sirensong 111]

Well, in your words "it shouldn't be a suprise to see this happen". As well as "it's simply a manifestation of what is".

 

My take is that I am always suprised to see continuous stupid violent behavior from the same individual instead that person making simple mistakes and learning from them. Get over that whole testosterone thing when talking about endangering other people's safety.

 

can you give me some examples of elliott being violent?

 

[sirensong 111]

I personally think he deserves a game or 2.

 

for what, exactly?

[polecatt 399]

 

for what, exactly?

Playing for the Dallas Cowboys

[seafoam1 1,878]

 

 

can you give me some examples of elliott being violent?

 

He was seen in a confrontation in a bar where the other guy ended up beat up from this confrontation. His ex girlfriend is still accusing him of beating her up even though it wasn't proven legally who it was that actually punched and choked her. There are photos of the bruises taken by the police.

 

And if they cant prove it legally, I don't think he should be charged. But that being said, he was proven at the center of the bar altercation, and this is after the whole domestic violence thing.

 

And even if that is no indication for you, then driving 100+ mph puts lives in danger. That's why its illegal. This guy doesn't have the brain to stay out of trouble situations. He's a me first person and violence seems to show up where he goes.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

 

 

can you give me some examples of elliott being violent?

 

 

 

He was accused of hitting his girlfriend. I don't know 100% for sure that it happened yet but if so that's a big one there.

[polecatt 399]

 

He was accused of hitting his girlfriend. I don't know 100% for sure that it happened yet but if so that's a big one there.

Accusations which have pretty much been proven false

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Accusations which have pretty much been proven false

 

Well, the accuser is still talking about how she was in a toxic relationship and how domestic abuse needs to stop. It's possible there is more to it.

[polecatt 399]

 

Well, the accuser is still talking about how she was in a toxic relationship and how domestic abuse needs to stop. It's possible there is more to it.

Well, I'm going to go with the police department that investigated it and the numerous exculpatory text messages she sent and the numerous witnesses that debunk her story

You can go with a jilted Instagram post if you want but that's not how the justice system works, fortunately

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Well, I'm going to go with the police department that investigated it and the numerous exculpatory text messages she sent and the numerous witnesses that debunk her story

You can go with a jilted Instagram post if you want but that's not how the justice system works, fortunately

 

I'm not claiming that it did happen but I won't deny that it's possible he was physical with her.

[seafoam1 1,878]

Well, I'm going to go with the police department that investigated it and the numerous exculpatory text messages she sent and the numerous witnesses that debunk her story

You can go with a jilted Instagram post if you want but that's not how the justice system works, fortunately

Well, I agree with the innocent until proven guilty, but hell, so did Al Capone. Unfortunately for him he overlooked his taxes.

 

But all Im saying is where there is smoke there may be fire. And with this guy, its all around him these days.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,556]

Well, I agree with the innocent until proven guilty, but hell, so did Al Capone. Unfortunately for him he overlooked his taxes.

 

But all Im saying is where there is smoke there may be fire. And with this guy, its all around him these days.

Exactly.

[polecatt 399]

Exactly.

You've already proven you're a Cowboy hater

[Hardcore troubadour 12,556]

You've already proven you're a Cowboy hater

True, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.