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Jacksonville's fake punt?


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#1 snark

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 07:50 AM

Should it be scored as a special teams td or not?



#2 Mike FF Today

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:37 AM

Nope. It's a running play on 4th down.


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#3 DamageIncVacc

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:39 AM

Yep running play on 4th down , not special teams. 



#4 snark

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:06 AM

Man, that sucks. Cost me a win. That and the fumble recovery for a td that they called back because he got touched by a phantom.



#5 Antiramie

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:12 AM

Man, that sucks. Cost me a win. That and the fumble recovery for a td that they called back because he got touched by a phantom.


And the pick that got returned to the 1...

#6 snark

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:44 AM

I still feel like this should be a special teams td. I mean, the punt unit is on the field, and the punt unit is special teams...



#7 DamageIncVacc

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:52 AM

Special teams comes into play as soon as the ball is kicked so if no kick , no special teams... just a  offensive play. I lost by a few so wish it was not true . This comes up every few years. Would be no different if they went for it on 4th down . Offensive play.



#8 BTL99

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:56 AM

I still feel like this should be a special teams td. I mean, the punt unit is on the field, and the punt unit is special teams...


Nope, it’s 100% just a rushing td

#9 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:05 AM

In my league, it's a special teams score.  The special teams unit was on the field, they're the one's who scored.



#10 BTL99

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:07 AM

Should be a special teams score.  The special teams unit was on the field, they're the one's who scored.  That's how my league is scoring it.


Sounds like your league is a joke lmfao

#11 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:10 AM

Sounds like your league is a joke lmfao

 

Don't care how it sounds to you.



#12 seafoam1

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:33 AM

Sounds like your league is a joke lmfao


Why? What's wrong with leagues building the rules around what the owners want it to be? It's kind of what the NFL does.

#13 BTL99

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:36 AM

Don't care how it sounds to you.


Good luck in your free yahoo league lmfao

#14 BTL99

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:41 AM

Why? What's wrong with leagues building the rules around what the owners want it to be? It's kind of what the NFL does.


Because it makes no sense. It was a rushing td, it wasn’t a special team kick return or a defensive td.

Only a sad pathetic joke league would have that be a DST td.

Let’s start having field goals count towards the DST too because it is the special team which is out there.

Dumb FF noobs

#15 seafoam1

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:47 AM

Because it makes no sense. It was a rushing td, it wasnt a special team kick return or a defensive td.

Only a sad pathetic joke league would have that be a DST td.

Lets start having field goals count towards the DST too because it is the special team which is out there.

Dumb FF noobs


You kind of sound like a noob actually. Trying to make some BS point about other people's leagues that people don't care about.

Oh well...

#16 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:09 PM

You kind of sound like a noob actually. Trying to make some BS point about other people's leagues that people don't care about.

Oh well...

 

It's all good.  Some people need to try and make themselves more important than what they really are.



#17 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:10 PM

Because it makes no sense. It was a rushing td, it wasn’t a special team kick return or a defensive td.

Only a sad pathetic joke league would have that be a DST td.

Let’s start having field goals count towards the DST too because it is the special team which is out there.

Dumb FF noobs

 

So, it makes no sense that the special teams doesn't get credit for a score when the special teams are on the field?



#18 Oriole8159

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:14 PM

I think its just one of those things that is based on how it goes down in the official scoring, and that's just it from a fantasy standpoint...like why a recovered onside kick is not considered a fumble recovery from a fantasy standpoint, or why a QB taking a knee at the end of the game results in a loss of rushing yards.

 

It's scored that way in the official book, so fantasy scores it that same way.


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My Team
R WILSON, 
M GORDON, McKINNON, ABDULLAH, d. henry, a morris, booker, ekeler 
AJ GREEN, HILTON, PARKER, e sanders, c davis, 
GRONKOWSKI, greg olsen (IR)
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#19 SexyRexy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:25 PM

You kind of sound like a noob actually. Trying to make some BS point about other people's leagues that people don't care about.

Oh well...


Come back after the stat correction. Its a rushing td

#20 SexyRexy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:26 PM

 
So, it makes no sense that the special teams doesn't get credit for a score when the special teams are on the field?


It doesnt. Regardless of personnel its an offensive play.

No different than kickers getting credit for passing tds on fake field goals. The moment the ball is rushed or passed it becomes an offensive play. Period end of story.

Lets make it simpler. If there is no down or distance its a special teams play specifically and exclusively.

#21 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:43 PM

It doesnt. Regardless of personnel its an offensive play.

No different than kickers getting credit for passing tds on fake field goals. The moment the ball is rushed or passed it becomes an offensive play. Period end of story.

Lets make it simpler. If there is no down or distance its a special teams play specifically and exclusively.

 

Simply, I disagree with you.  The Special Teams unit was on the field when the TD happened, therefore, the Special Teams gets credit for it.

 

Kickers are different pending your league format.  If your league specifically starts a kicker, then the kickers scoring is separate from the Special Teams.  If you don't specifically start a kicker and he's a part of the special teams, then his scores are a part of the special teams.

 

You can't make it any simpler than: "If the Special Teams unit is on the field, the Special Teams gets the points".



#22 seafoam1

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:00 PM

I think its just one of those things that is based on how it goes down in the official scoring, and that's just it from a fantasy standpoint...like why a recovered onside kick is not considered a fumble recovery from a fantasy standpoint, or why a QB taking a knee at the end of the game results in a loss of rushing yards.
 
It's scored that way in the official book, so fantasy scores it that same way.

Does your league give points for 100+ rushing or 300+ passing?

These are not scored by the NFL. Its just an add on for FF. Anyway, I see both sides, it's more questioning why the NFL scores it that way is all. FF can do what it wants.

#23 Oriole8159

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:18 PM

Does your league give points for 100+ rushing or 300+ passing?

These are not scored by the NFL. Its just an add on for FF. Anyway, I see both sides, it's more questioning why the NFL scores it that way is all. FF can do what it wants.

 

that's a bonus though based solely on stats drawn from the official scoring log still , so wouldn't say its applicable. you can have bonuses, but my point was that they're all based on stats found in the official scoring log. your example still would never be found in that log, so you're asking the commissioner to score something in your league exclusively different than how the league itself scores it.

 

you see the difference?


8-3; 1st place overall, first in total points

 

My Team
R WILSON, 
M GORDON, McKINNON, ABDULLAH, d. henry, a morris, booker, ekeler 
AJ GREEN, HILTON, PARKER, e sanders, c davis, 
GRONKOWSKI, greg olsen (IR)
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#24 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:28 PM

We've been scoring it this way for 20 years now, we're not going to stop.



#25 Oriole8159

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 01:46 PM

We've been scoring it this way for 20 years now, we're not going to stop.

how does the system know how to do that though?

Since it just shows in the official scoring record as a 56?? yard TD run, how does your automated scoring know that this should be one where this manual override of the official scoring should be applied?

 

not judging; legitimately curious from a logistical standpoint.


8-3; 1st place overall, first in total points

 

My Team
R WILSON, 
M GORDON, McKINNON, ABDULLAH, d. henry, a morris, booker, ekeler 
AJ GREEN, HILTON, PARKER, e sanders, c davis, 
GRONKOWSKI, greg olsen (IR)
JAX

BUTKER


#26 SexyRexy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:02 PM

We've been scoring it this way for 20 years now, we're not going to stop.


At the end of the day I for one could care less...but to be clear its not accurate

#27 Showboat

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:04 PM

 

You can't make it any simpler than: "If the Special Teams unit is on the field, the Special Teams gets the points".

 

This sounds simple, but can be tricky to implement (as noted above) because "special teams unit" is not really an official designation.  Plus there is always weird stuff that goes on - for example I recall times when both Brady and Roethlisberger would execute drop kicks and early down punts.  Are these considered special teams plays?  Our league addressed the issue by rostering a "team D"  instead of a "team DST".  Any time a team scores when operating in a defensive capacity it counts for the D (attempting to block kicks, kick coverage units, defending fake kicks, etc.)  Anything else (fake kicks, kick returns, etc.) counts as an offensive score and is awarded to the individual player.



#28 stonewall

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:23 PM

That Int. returned to the 1 yard line was the tough one to swallow. Not sure how many of you saw it, but dude had a blocker in front of him to lead him easily in, but the blocker was jacking around looking behind him (at nobody) for some stupid reason, instead of plowing the way in. 


I feel my football knowledge is vastly superior to my opponents. I also am just in general, a smarter person. These two things should allow me a huge advantage. But I've yet to be truly dominant.


#29 Yardage

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:40 PM

 "If the Special Teams unit is on the field, the Special Teams gets the points".


How would your league have scored it if the players on the field were a combination of the punting unit and say Blake Bortles. In other words, they line up for a punt but put Bortles in the backfield along with the punter behind him. They direct snap it to Bortles and he throws a TD. How would your league determine who was on the field to get credit since it was a combo of special teams and Bortles? I am genuinely curious.

#30 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:04 PM

how does the system know how to do that though?

Since it just shows in the official scoring record as a 56?? yard TD run, how does your automated scoring know that this should be one where this manual override of the official scoring should be applied?

 

not judging; legitimately curious from a logistical standpoint.

 

I manually adjust the score.  These things are VERY easy to track, so they don't get missed.



#31 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:14 PM

 

This sounds simple, but can be tricky to implement (as noted above) because "special teams unit" is not really an official designation.  Plus there is always weird stuff that goes on - for example I recall times when both Brady and Roethlisberger would execute drop kicks and early down punts.  Are these considered special teams plays?  Our league addressed the issue by rostering a "team D"  instead of a "team DST".  Any time a team scores when operating in a defensive capacity it counts for the D (attempting to block kicks, kick coverage units, defending fake kicks, etc.)  Anything else (fake kicks, kick returns, etc.) counts as an offensive score and is awarded to the individual player.

 

To me, it's pretty easy to determine the "special teams unit", whether it's an official designation or not.  If you have a kicker/punter, a long snapper, and a special teams formation... that's the special teams unit.  Sure, a QB could always do one of those drop kicks, and those are special teams plays because the ball was kicked.  You don't do a fake punt with the offense on the field, so until the ball is kicked, they are on offense.  That's not the same thing when you have, as I stated above, a kicker/punter, long snapper, and a special teams formation.



#32 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:15 PM

How would your league have scored it if the players on the field were a combination of the punting unit and say Blake Bortles. In other words, they line up for a punt but put Bortles in the backfield along with the punter behind him. They direct snap it to Bortles and he throws a TD. How would your league determine who was on the field to get credit since it was a combo of special teams and Bortles? I am genuinely curious.

 

Blake Bortles is NOT a punter / special teams player, so if he's on the field, it's not a special teams play unless he actually kicks the ball.  At that point, there can't be a fake anymore, so the "fake punt" for a TD is a moot point.  If he throws it, then it's obviously a TD pass... because he's the quarterback and not a punter.



#33 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:19 PM

At the end of the day I for one could care less...but to be clear its not accurate

 

Meh.  The NFL / Elias Sports Bureau decide that it's not worth having a statistic for an anomaly... because, after all, fake kicks that result in TD's are an anomaly.  Just because of that, it doesn't take away from the fact that the special teams unit was on the field when the TD was scored.  So, it is accurate to apply the points to the special teams.



#34 seafoam1

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:50 PM

 
that's a bonus though based solely on stats drawn from the official scoring log still , so wouldn't say its applicable. you can have bonuses, but my point was that they're all based on stats found in the official scoring log. your example still would never be found in that log, so you're asking the commissioner to score something in your league exclusively different than how the league itself scores it.
 
you see the difference?

Yes of course I see your point. But if some league wants to remove the -1 yard for a QB kneel down, or even remove a ppr point if the player gets negative yards on a reception, more power to them. I don't want to manage that but if a league out there does, it doesn't mean it's a stupid league. That league just chooses to score things a little differently.

There are topics on this board often that address complaints of how the NFL handles/scores things. If you don't like it, why pull it into your FF league?

It's all personal preference in your entertainmemt.

#35 CornKobb

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:51 PM

it is a running play. I own the jacksonville defense for what it is worth. shouldn't be a special teams td



#36 SexyRexy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:05 PM

 
Simply, I disagree with you.  The Special Teams unit was on the field when the TD happened, therefore, the Special Teams gets credit for it.
 
Kickers are different pending your league format.  If your league specifically starts a kicker, then the kickers scoring is separate from the Special Teams.  If you don't specifically start a kicker and he's a part of the special teams, then his scores are a part of the special teams.
 
You can't make it any simpler than: "If the Special Teams unit is on the field, the Special Teams gets the points".


You can disagree. The nfl doesnt.

If there is a down and distance its an offensive play. See how simple my response is to yours? Its really very black and white.

#37 SexyRexy

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:06 PM

Again I could care less what this particular fantasy league does. But facts are facts.

#38 Oriole8159

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:07 PM

Yes of course I see your point. But if some league wants to remove the -1 yard for a QB kneel down, or even remove a ppr point if the player gets negative yards on a reception, more power to them. I don't want to manage that but if a league out there does, it doesn't mean it's a stupid league. That league just chooses to score things a little differently.

There are topics on this board often that address complaints of how the NFL handles/scores things. If you don't like it, why pull it into your FF league?

It's all personal preference in your entertainmemt.

 

My thoughts I guess are, once you start opening up for manual scoring adjustments, it just opens up an avenue for more people to ###### and moan since that's human nature.

It's so easy to just have a built in control that says we base solely on how the NFL scores, and then not to have even acknowledge things like that.

 

I don't mind if a league wants to run itself their own way, but for some reason some of the guys on here advocating for it were pretty rude I thought. It's your league and feel free to run it your way, but at least recognize that you're the exception and not the rest of us. Don't try and argue so vehemently like you're right and we're wrong.

 

Not speaking to you directly since I don't recall who said what, so last part just aimed at the guys on this thread that apply.


8-3; 1st place overall, first in total points

 

My Team
R WILSON, 
M GORDON, McKINNON, ABDULLAH, d. henry, a morris, booker, ekeler 
AJ GREEN, HILTON, PARKER, e sanders, c davis, 
GRONKOWSKI, greg olsen (IR)
JAX

BUTKER


#39 seafoam1

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:15 PM

 
My thoughts I guess are, once you start opening up for manual scoring adjustments, it just opens up an avenue for more people to ###### and moan since that's human nature.
It's so easy to just have a built in control that says we base solely on how the NFL scores, and then not to have even acknowledge things like that.
 
I don't mind if a league wants to run itself their own way, but for some reason some of the guys on here advocating for it were pretty rude I thought. It's your league and feel free to run it your way, but at least recognize that you're the exception and not the rest of us. Don't try and argue so vehemently like you're right and we're wrong.
 
Not speaking to you directly since I don't recall who said what, so last part just aimed at the guys on this thread that apply.

Yeah I agree about that for sure. Makes me think back to the newspaper days. It had it's own level of cool. That being said, I'm in a league that's pretty pricey with long term investments at stake, but everyone in the league has their heads screwed on pretty well. So we always come up with reasonable approaches to anything contested which doesn't happen often.

After reading here about some of the leagues folks here are in. They need much more strict structure for sure.

#40 MudDawgs4Life

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:54 AM

Does your league give points for 100+ rushing or 300+ passing?

These are not scored by the NFL. Its just an add on for FF. Anyway, I see both sides, it's more questioning why the NFL scores it that way is all. FF can do what it wants.

any individual yard is not "scored" in football either.  only tds, fgs, extra points, 2 point conversions, and safeties are "scored."  Elias sports bureau does keep track of 100 yard games and 300 yard passing games, yes. 

 

i agree with whoever said its a rushing td.  it's an offensive down. you punt on fourth down. just because a traditional quarterback wasn't on the field doesn't make a special teams play.  i don't understand how you could see it any other way. it's not a debate, it's a fact.