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My whole family is giving up all animal based foods


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#41 supermike80

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:34 AM

 

You are the one posting a thread about it in a discussion forum, right?  :unsure:

Youre not making sense.  Yes I posted about it.  Yes I understand what YOU would want to do.  I am not doing that.  What am I missing?


If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#42 Baker Boy

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:34 AM

That's fine.  That works for you.  Right?  
 
But we know you have no experience the other way, unlike people who turn vegan or vegetarian.  But we won't let that fact ruin your cool post.


I do have experience the other way, sorry to ruin your post.
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have Wiff as one of their members"

#43 supermike80

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:36 AM

 

Perhaps you should review what being a vegan truly is:

 

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

 

https://www.vegansoc...nition-veganism

 

It's not that we're being cynical about it. We're responding to your post saying your family is going vegan. :dunno:

You're confusing posters dummy.  Maybe pay a little more attention to the postings and not your emoticons


If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#44 listen2me 23

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:39 AM

 

Perhaps you should review what being a vegan truly is:

 

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

 

https://www.vegansoc...nition-veganism

 

It's not that we're being cynical about it. We're responding to your post saying your family is going vegan. :dunno:

 

Well I don't know what they are called and the label really doesn't matter to me nor should it.  They don't eat meat.  They eat fish.  I don't think they eat milk or eggs.  They don't do it for animal rights.  So add that up, and let me know what label we should throw on it.  

 

The cynical part is you resort to fluff arguments like "add a couple years to my life".  Yeah maybe, or just perhaps feeling better now with more energy.  And perhaps being healthier in your 60s 70s or 80s.  

 

They try to avoid Fructose as well as we all should.  If drinking cans of pop makes you feel better then more power to you.  
 

When I am pounding 3 cheese bean dips and Brauts on Sunday, I can tell you I don't feel very lively.  

 

It has nothing to do with anything besides feeling better with more energy.  So call it what you wanna call it their a f'ing plantaholic.



#45 listen2me 23

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:41 AM

I do have experience the other way, sorry to ruin your post.

 

Tell us about your experience.  When and why were you once "no meat" for a length of time?  Were you once a hippy leftist?

 

No really, I'm interested.  



#46 drobeski

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:41 AM

Isn't fish, fish meat ? :dunno:

#47 Baker Boy

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:43 AM

Tell us about your experience.  When and why were you once "no meat" for a length of time?  Were you once a hippy leftist?
 
No really, I'm interested.

My parents are vegetarian, that is how I was raised. HTH
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have Wiff as one of their members"

#48 listen2me 23

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:44 AM

Isn't fish, fish meat ? :dunno:

Yeah I have heard a healthier meat.  Traditionally speaking anyway.  



#49 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:44 AM

Youre not making sense.  Yes I posted about it.  Yes I understand what YOU would want to do.  I am not doing that.  What am I missing?

 

You're confusing posters dummy.  Maybe pay a little more attention to the postings and not your emoticons

 

So I posted a question to the Op (listentome23) and you replied, telling me to stop it that you're not doing it. Mistake on your part as I wasn't talking to you. Mistake on my part was asking that you created the thread on it because I incorrectly assumed the person I asked the question of was the one answering it.

 

How about answering questions directed at you then NOT going all Slo Nutt when someone responds incorrectly to you incorrectly answering. Mmmmmmkay sunshine?


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#50 listen2me 23

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:45 AM

My parents are vegetarian, that is how I was raise. HTH

 

Alright then.  Plants weren't working for you.  Meat works

 

Meats didn't work for them.  Plants now work.  



#51 MDC

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:47 AM

My parents are vegetarian, that is how I was raise. HTH


Of course you were
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#52 supermike80

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:47 AM

 

 

So I posted a question to the Op (listentome23) and you replied, telling me to stop it that you're not doing it. Mistake on your part as I wasn't talking to you. Mistake on my part was asking that you created the thread on it because I incorrectly assumed the person I asked the question of was the one answering it.

 

How about answering questions directed at you then NOT going all Slo Nutt when someone responds incorrectly to you incorrectly answering. Mmmmmmkay sunshine?

I'm the Op...


If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#53 IGotWorms

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:48 AM

Pens should be along soon.


;)

#54 Baker Boy

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:51 AM

Alright then.  Plants weren't working for you.  Meat works
 
Meats didn't work for them.  Plants now work.

Like I said earlier, I only eat 4-5 oz of meat a day but my entire system got a boost when I started eating meat regularly.
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have Wiff as one of their members"

#55 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:55 AM

I'm the Op...

 

JFC................. You got me all focked up now.

 

So I DID have it right. If you posted your family has gone vegan yet they still wear things made from animals they haven't gone vegan; they've just stopped consuming animal products.

 

:bench:


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#56 Baker Boy

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:57 AM

JFC................. You got me all focked up now.
 
So I DID have it right. If you posted your family has gone vegan yet they still wear things made from animals they haven't gone vegan; they've just stopped consuming animal products.
 
:bench:


If you use any animal products you are not Vegan!

veg·an
[ˈvēɡən]
NOUN
a person who does not eat or use animal products:
"I don't want to belong to any club that would have Wiff as one of their members"

#57 supermike80

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:59 AM

 

JFC................. You got me all focked up now.

 

So I DID have it right. If you posted your family has gone vegan yet they still wear things made from animals they haven't gone vegan; they've just stopped consuming animal products.

 

:bench:

OH MY GOD----Is THAT your issue?  Being exact about what a vegan is?   Yes you are correct...you win.

 

Holy sheet


If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#58 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:06 AM

OH MY GOD----Is THAT your issue?  Being exact about what a vegan is?   Yes you are correct...you win.

 

Holy sheet

 

My issue started as a simple clarification question then you caught an attitude. On you dude.


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#59 supermike80

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:15 AM

 

My issue started as a simple clarification question then you caught an attitude. On you dude.

Ok.  On me.  You win again.  You're 2-0 on winning against me in this thread.


If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#60 IGotWorms

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:50 AM

 
That's fine.  That works for you.  Right?  
 
But we know you have no experience the other way, unlike people who turn vegan or vegetarian.  But we won't let that fact ruin your cool post.  


These people think it's some kind of attack on their lifestyle if other people choose not to eat meat. Obviously they're focking bonkers

#61 TimmySmith

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 11:04 AM

These people think it's some kind of attack on their lifestyle if other people choose not to eat meat. Obviously they're focking bonkers

Well, there is "look at me and my faux leather mushkas".   :dunno:


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#62 jerryskids

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 11:27 AM

My cousin started doing this at least 5 or 6 years ago.  His sister and mom followed suit after they both got cancer.  

 

I'm interested, do they attribute their cancer remission to the diet?  I ask because back in the 80s my dad had colon cancer; my physics teacher gave me a book about a "macrobiotic" diet which espoused to cure cancer.  Pretty much vegan.  In fact I just googled it:

 

 

Macrobiotics, with its brown rice, beans, sea vegetables, and Asian yin-yang philosophy of finding balance in life for health and vitality, was the original counterculture diet back in the '60s. ... Whole grains, vegetables, and beans are the mainstays of the diet, which some people believe can prevent or treat cancer.

 

My dad never read it.  :(

Pretty much vegan.  


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#63 Artista

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 11:51 AM

 

I'm interested, do they attribute their cancer remission to the diet?  I ask because back in the 80s my dad had colon cancer; my physics teacher gave me a book about a "macrobiotic" diet which espoused to cure cancer.  Pretty much vegan.  In fact I just googled it:

 

My dad never read it.  :(

Pretty much vegan.  

Cancer is a crap shoot. There's a lot of talk about diet and exercise on the cancer boards. Vegans and marathon runners get cancer and do recur so there is no do this and you are safe. I know a few stage IV people who are vegans and exercise gurus.

 

I went to a talk from a cancer researcher on preventing recurrence a couple weeks ago. Basically, barring other health issues or concerns for the individual, everything is ok in moderation. Red meat provides the best source of iron/energy but a small amount, not a porterhouse steak. Fish you need to be wary of where it came from. Get wild caught. Of course things like white carbs, sugar, alcohol are best to limit greatly but just because you limit it or even eliminate it doesn't mean you are safer.Some people are so extreme with diet. They usually bounce back and forth from it because they are depriving themselves. Exercise is the best for reducing chances of recurrence over diet at least with bc. Min 3 hours of moderate activity is recommended for us.

 

Also learned an aspirin a day helps prevent colon cancer. So unless you have blood thinning issues, may not be a bad idea to ask your doc about. Colon cancer these days is curable, the only real one that's curable. Do the colonoscopies as directed and the pre-cancer polyps are taken out.



#64 frank

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:48 PM

Isn't fish, fish meat ? :dunno:


You know why fish are so thin, don't you?





They eat fish.

Another Dumb fvcking post by frank. :wave:

 

 

 

 

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OOTMFFOTB


#65 penultimatestraw

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:15 PM

These people think it's some kind of attack on their lifestyle if other people choose not to eat meat. Obviously they're focking bonkers

This is accurate. Some people get really defensive when they find out you eat a different diet. While the stereotype is the sanctimonious vegan lecturing carnivores, both sides are guilty of judging. Vegetarians/vegans are just a lot more likely to be put on the spot to justify their dietary choices.

 

I've already posted ad nauseam about the benefits of a plant based diet and risks of consuming animal protein, so I won't rehash. But Iam90's is on the right track: 

The cynical part is you resort to fluff arguments like "add a couple years to my life".  Yeah maybe, or just perhaps feeling better now with more energy.  And perhaps being healthier in your 60s 70s or 80s...  

  

It has nothing to do with anything besides feeling better with more energy. 

Diet alone isn't going to cure cancer, but it may prevent it from occurring in the first place. It can promote regression of heart/vascular disease and manage diabetes, however. Ultimately, it is the interaction between your genes and environment, including the diet you choose, that determines your health. Personally, I'm not gonna rely on gene therapy to bail me out if there are other modifiable risk factors for disease.

 

As for the OP, although it can be a very healthy diet, veganism is hard to sustain and impractical in most areas. Unless you prepare all your own food, there just aren't enough meals options widely available. Hopefully your family can find a way to make it work.



#66 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:02 PM

This is accurate. Some people get really defensive when they find out you eat a different diet. While the stereotype is the sanctimonious vegan lecturing carnivores, both
As for the OP, although it can be a very healthy diet, veganism is hard to sustain and impractical in most areas. Unless you prepare all your own food, there just aren't enough meals options widely available. Hopefully your family can find a way to make it work.


They'll never have good shoes or a nice coat though.

BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#67 penultimatestraw

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:22 PM

They'll never have good shoes or a nice coat though.

Not true. I haven't purchased leather in years.



#68 Alias Detective

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:12 PM

Not true. I haven't purchased leather in years.


Just man made materials which also harm animals via manufacturing. Ugh, it's maddening.

#69 wiffleball

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:18 PM

I told this story before. A friend of mine's wife is supposedly hardcore vegetarian. And she absolutely adores Jello because there's really no calories.

He's already promised to beat me to death with a tire iron if I ever break the news to her about where Jello comes from.

She is such a nut that they have different dishes at home to eat off of. My friends like what the hell does she think she's doing in restaurants?

I'm convinced with the exception of about 1% who have legitimate issues, this is just yet another way for women to be a pain in the ass. AKA get more attention.
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#70 listen2me 23

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:55 PM

 
I'm interested, do they attribute their cancer remission to the diet?  I ask because back in the 80s my dad had colon cancer; my physics teacher gave me a book about a "macrobiotic" diet which espoused to cure cancer.  Pretty much vegan.  In fact I just googled it:
 
My dad never read it.  :(
Pretty much vegan.  


Well it started with crap food with chemicals in them. Then they just decided to follow him and go for it. They liked the way they felt so they kept going.

I know his sister was doing green smoothies half the day while doing chemo basically to save energy it takes to process whole food down. Not to mention junk food. She felt she might as well save as much energy as she could since she felt she had none.

The cancer may have just been a trigger to eat cleaner. Not exactly a certain diet at first.

#71 Artista

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:07 PM

Well it started with crap food with chemicals in them. Then they just decided to follow him and go for it. They liked the way they felt so they kept going.

I know his sister was doing green smoothies half the day while doing chemo basically to save energy it takes to process whole food down. Not to mention junk food. She felt she might as well save as much energy as she could since she felt she had none.

The cancer may have just been a trigger to eat cleaner. Not exactly a certain diet at first.

On chemo you're lucky to keep any food down for most of us. You also need to be careful about what you are eating/drinking during chemo because it can interfere with it's effectiveness, such as foods high in anitoxidants. I drank grapefruit juice later to find that was a no no for example.



#72 penultimatestraw

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:30 PM

Just man made materials which also harm animals via manufacturing. Ugh, it's maddening.

Of course. Since it's impossible to please everyone, have you decided to be a d!ckhead all the time?

#73 penultimatestraw

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:37 PM

On chemo you're lucky to keep any food down for most of us. You also need to be careful about what you are eating/drinking during chemo because it can interfere with it's effectiveness, such as foods high in anitoxidants. I drank grapefruit juice later to find that was a no no for example.

Avoiding grapefood juice wasn't about the antioxidants; it interferes with the metabolism of some meds given with chemo.

#74 Alias Detective

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:38 PM

Of course. Since it's impossible to please everyone, have you decided to be a d!ckhead all the time?


No

#75 Artista

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:21 PM

Avoiding grapefood juice wasn't about the antioxidants; it interferes with the metabolism of some meds given with chemo.

My chemo class RN warned against taking in antioxidants... That was the only juice that tasted ok enough to down since everything tasted awful. Just like how cancer is a crap shoot, so is much of the do this and don't do this. It's quite dizzying, mind boggling, when you are trying to find out the bottom line because there really isn't much fact when it comes to diet and supps. Exercise is the only for sure thing to prevent recurrence according to Dr. David Lee of UCSF whose talk I attended a couple weeks ago. Even oncs differ on diet and supps during chemo and beyond. Mine says this but someone else's onc says something different. Who to believe. Who knows.

 

Visit breastcancer.org and just look at the desperation of what to do when it comes to txs. Do the meds that are crippling to some or have possible life threatening se's? Go the alternative tree hugger only route which docs do not recommend? It's not as simple to go by stage either. Each of our individual profiles of the 28 different types of bc is important to to decide what to do for active tx and then what to do to help prevent recurrence/mets to stage IV.

 

And there is no such thing as x # years out and you are safe. I met one lady at the talk that got bc at 46, was NED, then now 31 years later at 77 it's come back. Saw a few stories like this in the crowd of 40 that night. Got to keep up with new stuff coming out, keep up with appts (mine are every 3 mo since I'm high risk) and do the best you can and just hope you remain lucky and die of something else when it's your time.



#76 penultimatestraw

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:04 PM

My chemo class RN warned against taking in antioxidants... That was the only juice that tasted ok enough to down since everything tasted awful. Just like how cancer is a crap shoot, so is much of the do this and don't do this. It's quite dizzying, mind boggling, when you are trying to find out the bottom line because there really isn't much fact when it comes to diet and supps. Exercise is the only for sure thing to prevent recurrence according to Dr. David Lee of UCSF whose talk I attended a couple weeks ago. Even oncs differ on diet and supps during chemo and beyond. Mine says this but someone else's onc says something different. Who to believe. Who knows.
 
Visit breastcancer.org and just look at the desperation of what to do when it comes to txs. Do the meds that are crippling to some or have possible life threatening se's? Go the alternative tree hugger only route which docs do not recommend? It's not as simple to go by stage either. Each of our individual profiles of the 28 different types of bc is important to to decide what to do for active tx and then what to do to help prevent recurrence/mets to stage IV.
 
And there is no such thing as x # years out and you are safe. I met one lady at the talk that got bc at 46, was NED, then now 31 years later at 77 it's come back. Saw a few stories like this in the crowd of 40 that night. Got to keep up with new stuff coming out, keep up with appts (mine are every 3 mo since I'm high risk) and do the best you can and just hope you remain lucky and die of something else when it's your time.

You are correct; there is no evidenced based diet which improves cancer outcomes to my knowledge. But there is plenty of data suggesting plant based diets reduce the risk of cancer developing in the first place. No guarantees, of course, as genetics play a huge role. Supplements aren't well supported either. And I've never heard anything about exercise reducing cancer recurrence, though it is a good idea anyway for overall health.

The holistic approach appeals to many, but is much more of a crapshoot than conventional medicine. But people fall in love with the naturalist fallacy, often so much they delay standard therapy and worsen their prognosis. And breast cancer is notorious for late recurrence.

#77 penultimatestraw

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:06 PM

No

Well you've really nailed it with your posting style. Congrats, I guess.

#78 Artista

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:26 PM

You are correct; there is no evidenced based diet which improves cancer outcomes to my knowledge. But there is plenty of data suggesting plant based diets reduce the risk of cancer developing in the first place. No guarantees, of course, as genetics play a huge role. Supplements aren't well supported either. And I've never heard anything about exercise reducing cancer recurrence, though it is a good idea anyway for overall health.

The holistic approach appeals to many, but is much more of a crapshoot than conventional medicine. But people fall in love with the naturalist fallacy, often so much they delay standard therapy and worsen their prognosis. And breast cancer is notorious for late recurrence.

Holmes et al. JAMA 2005, 293: 2479-2486

 

- Prospective observational study of 2987 female registered nurses in the Nurses Health Study dx'd with stage I, II or III bc.

 

-Median f/u- 96 months

 

-Active women had 50% less recurrences and bc related deaths when compared to inactive women.

 

-Active- Walking at an average pace for 3 hours/week

 

-Inactive- Less than 1 hour/week of moderate activity.

 

For women who are ER+, it was up to 50% reduction in recurrence.

__________________________________________________________________

 

Exercise and Colorectal Cancer

 

Ballard-Barbash et al. J Natl Cancer Inst 2012; 104:815

 

- 3 studies found the risk of dying from colon cancer was reduced by 43-61% with moderate activity (3 hours/week).

___________________________________________________________________

 

Exercise and Prostate Cancer

 

Richman et al. Cancer Res; 71(11):3889-95

 

Talks about those dx'd with pc how moderate exercise 3 hours a week lowers progression by 57%.

 

_______________________________________________________________________

 

Diet of course is important for general health, to hopefully prevent diseases. We were all surprised by how important exercise is. We always assumed diet was the key.



#79 Artista

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:33 PM

You are correct; there is no evidenced based diet which improves cancer outcomes to my knowledge. But there is plenty of data suggesting plant based diets reduce the risk of cancer developing in the first place. No guarantees, of course, as genetics play a huge role. Supplements aren't well supported either. And I've never heard anything about exercise reducing cancer recurrence, though it is a good idea anyway for overall health.

The holistic approach appeals to many, but is much more of a crapshoot than conventional medicine. But people fall in love with the naturalist fallacy, often so much they delay standard therapy and worsen their prognosis. And breast cancer is notorious for late recurrence.

Actually, only 10-15% of bc is genetic based. I always thought you have a higher risk if it runs in your family. Not the case. Was very surprised to learn that. My mom got DCIS (stage 0) bc 1.5 years after my dx. Had a lumpectomy and rads. Just because both of us have it doesn't mean genetics is involved.

 

It's amasing looking at the bc board how people who were/are healthy are stage IV and others who are unhealthy even after dx are doing well years out from dx. It's seriously a crap shoot. It's emphasised to us to live our lives. Do the best we can but some people just bounce around from trying this and that esp with supplements and "natural" things like essential oils, herbs which they don't realise can be dangerous. Those are a form of medicine that can interact with the meds you are taking or just dangerous on their own.



#80 penultimatestraw

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:57 PM

Holmes et al. JAMA 2005, 293: 2479-2486
 
- Prospective observational study of 2987 female registered nurses in the Nurses Health Study dx'd with stage I, II or III bc.
 
-Median f/u- 96 months
 
-Active women had 50% less recurrences and bc related deaths when compared to inactive women.
 
-Active- Walking at an average pace for 3 hours/week
 
-Inactive- Less than 1 hour/week of moderate activity.
 
For women who are ER+, it was up to 50% reduction in recurrence.
__________________________________________________________________
 
Exercise and Colorectal Cancer
 
Ballard-Barbash et al. J Natl Cancer Inst 2012; 104:815
 
- 3 studies found the risk of dying from colon cancer was reduced by 43-61% with moderate activity (3 hours/week).
___________________________________________________________________
 
Exercise and Prostate Cancer
 
Richman et al. Cancer Res; 71(11):3889-95
 
Talks about those dx'd with pc how moderate exercise 3 hours a week lowers progression by 57%.
 
_______________________________________________________________________
 
Diet of course is important for general health, to hopefully prevent diseases. We were all surprised by how important exercise is. We always assumed diet was the key.

That's interesting. Thanks for the info.

Just another reason to keep active.