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The Black Dilemma - Ian Duncan


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#1 Baker Boy

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:25 AM


It is probably to long for most of you but he makes some Interesting points.

The Black Dilemma

"For almost 150 years the United States has been conducting an interesting experiment. The subjects of the experiment: black people and working-class whites.
The hypothesis to be tested: Can a people taken from the jungles of Africa and forced into slavery be fully integrated as citizens in a majority white population?
The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements. Acting on a policy that was not fair to either group, the government released newly freed black people into a white society that saw them as inferiors. America has struggled with racial discord ever since.
Decade after decade the problems persisted but the experimenters never gave up. They insisted that if they could find the right formula the experiment would work, and concocted program after program to get the result they wanted. They created the Freedmans Bureau, passed civil rights laws, tried to build the Great Society, declared War on Poverty, ordered race preferences, built housing projects, and tried midnight basketball.
Their new laws intruded into peoples lives in ways that would have been otherwise unthinkable. They called in National Guard troops to enforce school integration. They outlawed freedom of association. Over the protests of parents, they put white children on buses and sent them to black schools and vice-versa. They tried with money, special programs, relaxed standards, and endless hand wringing to close the achievement gap. To keep white backlash in check they began punishing public and even private statements on race. They hung up Orwellian public banners that commanded whites to Celebrate Diversity! and Say No to Racism. Nothing was off limits if it might salvage the experiment.
Some thought that what W.E.B. DuBois called the Talented Tenth would lead the way for black people. A group of elite, educated blacks would knock down doors of opportunity and show the world what blacks were capable of.
There is a Talented Tenth. They are the black Americans who have  become entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors and scientists. But ten percent is not enough. For the experiment to work, the ten percent has to be followed by a critical mass of people who can hold middle-class jobs and promote social stability. That is what is missing.
Through the years, too many black people continue to show an inability to function and prosper in a culture unsuited to them. Detroit is bankrupt, the south side of Chicago is a war zone, and the vast majority of black cities all over America are beset by degeneracy and violence. And blacks never take responsibility for their failures. Instead, they lash out in anger and resentment.
Across the generations and across the country, as we have seen in Detroit, Watts, Newark, Los Angeles, Cincinnati, and now Ferguson, rioting and looting are just one racial incident away. The white elite would tell us that this doesn't mean the experiment has failed.. We just have to try harder. We need more money, more time, more understanding, more programs, and more opportunities.
But nothing changes no matter how much money is spent, no matter how many laws are passed, no matter how many black geniuses are portrayed on TV, and no matter who is president. Some argue its a problem of culture, as if culture creates peoples behavior instead of the other way around. Others blame white privilege.
But since 1965, when the elites opened Americas doors to the Third World, immigrants from Asia and India people who are not white, not rich, and not connected have quietly succeeded. While the children of these people are winning spelling bees and getting top scores on the SAT, black youths are committing half the country's violent crime, which includes viciously punching random white people on the street for the thrill of it that has nothing to do with poverty.
The experiment has failed. Not because of white culture, or white privilege, or white racism. The fundamental problem is that American black culture has evolved into an un-fixable and crime ridden mess. They do not want to change their culture or society, and expect others to tolerate their violence and amoral behavior. They have become socially incompatible with other races by their own design, not because of the racism of others - but by their own hatred of non-blacks.
Our leaders don't seem to understand just how tired their white subjects are with this experiment. They don't understand that white people aren't out to get black people; they are just exhausted with them. They are exhausted by the social pathologies, the violence, the endless complaints, and the blind racial solidarity, the bottomless pit of grievances, the excuses, and the reflexive animosity The elites explain everything with racism, and refuse to believe that white frustration could soon reach the boiling point."---
"You can't legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government can't give to anybody anything that the government doesn't first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they don't have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
Ian Duncan
The Baltimore Sun
https://www.24hourca...822/type/thread

This article was never actually printed in the Baltimore Sun.
The link has additional discussion.
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#2 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:45 AM

"exhausted with them" aptly describes what I'm feeling.

 

Overwhelmingly society is trying to cater (for some reason) to 10% of the population. Overt in some instances, subtle in others but it's there. 


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#3 Herbivore

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:25 AM

casting a lot of blame outward...


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#4 Baker Boy

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:17 PM

This was posted on the same link

You look at Baltimore in particular - since the late 60s and era of civil rights law enactment the people of Baltimore have overwhelmingly voted in Democrats. African Americans have been well represented in political positions and community activism. Baltimore is the closest major city to Washington D.C. and has had as much political exposure for change as any city in America.

If any city should be a blueprint for eliminating the cycle of poverty and the resulting racial bias that has been created from it, its Baltimore.

Yet virtually nothing has changed since the mid 60's in the urban centers of the city.

What is the appropriate length of time to be given before someone is allowed to say - you know what - that's on them, not everyone else? At what point can you say they've squandered opportunity after opportunity to get away from the behaviors and environment that continues to put them in a situation where 13% of the population generates a disproportionate level of crime. Another decade? two decades?

Why is it wrong for someone to note that African American children in Baltimore and every other city in America have access to a free public education and from that can attend a vocational school, a college or join the military as an opportunity to get out of that poverty - the same opportunity afforded every American in this country? Yes, there are obstacles, yes, there is racial bias, but what is holding them back is not the external world beyond the city blocks of their neighborhood - its the environment and culture developed within the city blocks of Baltimore - the city run by officials elected by these people, with mayors in charge of the police. 4 of the last 5 mayors of Baltimore were African American, representing 21 out of 29 years of elected office.

I'm not holding them back - my neighbors aren't holding them back. That's the general attitude of America outside of Baltimore (and other cities with similar problems). Baltimore is holding Baltimore back.
https://www.24hourca...822/type/thread
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#5 Jesus Chrysler

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:33 PM

I take it that this Baker Boys character is like the leader of the anti-black movement around here? 



#6 Cdub100

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:18 PM

Duh


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#7 MDC

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:40 PM

Great article, I never considered the possibility that everything wrong with black America today is 100% their fault and they're all just whiners.
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#8 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:59 PM

Great article, I never considered the possibility that everything wrong with black America today is 100% their fault and they're all just whiners.


Think 2016 Election, the results and it's the same concept.

BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#9 Baker Boy

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:22 PM

I take it that this Baker Boys character is like the leader of the anti-black movement around here?

And the experiment continues!

I blame the Liberal American Leaders, Black and White, for Black Americas Dilemma. The fact that you cant even consider any other possibilities shows how narrow minded the Left really is. How many more decades will it take before Liberal America is willing to make Black America responsible for their own action and thus setting them free?

There is nothing anti black about this your way has fail for over 50 years. I Am sure you did not read the article because it infers you are the one who is holding Black America back.


I am afraid that there is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don't want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public. - Booker T. Washington 1911

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#10 jerryskids

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:11 PM

Great article, I never considered the possibility that everything wrong with black America today is 100% their fault and they're all just whiners.

 

I think it is a great article, inasmuch as it addresses the elephant in the room which is the broken nature of black inner city culture, which is exactly what I've been saying for my entire time here.  And your response proves the point that, as BB said, the experiment must go on!  Somehow the coolies and micks and dot heads and pollacks (like myself, also part wop) managed to overcome ethnic and racial prejudice and succeed here.  But you are right, white guilt words.  :thumbsup:


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#11 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:23 PM

this is probably racist

 

TLDR


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#12 crackattack

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:34 PM

 
I think it is a great article, inasmuch as it addresses the elephant in the room which is the broken nature of black inner city culture, which is exactly what I've been saying for my entire time here.  And your response proves the point that, as BB said, the experiment must go on!  Somehow the coolies and micks and dot heads and pollacks (like myself, also part wop) managed to overcome ethnic and racial prejudice and succeed here.  But you are right, white guilt words.  :thumbsup:


Well said. :thumbsup:

#13 IMMensaMind

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:51 PM

I have a problem with the op-ed, and it's a big one. The article clearly says that the issues with black culture in America are - essentially - genetic, or at least engrained as a result of merely being black. The problem I see with that is that we have decades of experience with black culture, and it manifested none of the issues in the past that this op-ed now fairly accurately identifies exist in the present.

Have black Americans been targeted - specifically targeted - by Government policy? By - specifically - leftists who socially engineered an outcome which on the surface appeared generous and charitable, but in point of fact was something else, with their Government policy?

I think there is no question. I submit to you this: if you (claim) that you are reaching out to a specific culture - in this case, blacks - with the 'sympathetic claim' that you are truly looking to assist in correcting the misdeeds of civil rights abuse, and historic slavery (neither of which destroyed the black family, I'll note), you may find willing ears.

And, of course, those policies found purchase.

Blacks were being given stuff, after all. They were accepting handouts - entitlements - and they were far too easily convinced that they deserved them; and eventually easily convinced that they needed them.

That the rest of the world is unfair. That they were never going to be given a fair shake.

They - easily - believed it.

Unfortunately, the move only stole their soul. The men had - unwittingly - their manhood stripped from them. The joy of accomplishment; of self-sufficiency. Of honest work for honest pay. That creates a completely unhealthy mentality, and - naturally - societal dysfunction would ensue. Other irresponsible behavior would naturally follow: consequence-free sex and subsequent illegitimacy; drug use; crime.

All of which propagates further 'need'. So programs grow.

And - thus - the bleeding hearts of the left (many of whom aren't bleeding hearts at all: those are only the naive ones who truly thought - or still somehow think - that the purpose of these entitlements was actually to help, instead of what really happened: dependence, and a reliable voting constituency) enslave blacks in a whole new and entirely devious way.

That's what happened. It also happened in Appalachia; a backwards culture sequestered from the rest of society by geography and an alien lifestyle.

It has nothing to do with race, and we all have seen examples. Nigerian immigrants, for instance, as as 'black' as black can be. Yet: they excel; they do not associate with a US black culture that they find sick.

It was made sick. On purpose.

#14 MDC

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:10 PM

 
I think it is a great article, inasmuch as it addresses the elephant in the room which is the broken nature of black inner city culture, which is exactly what I've been saying for my entire time here.  And your response proves the point that, as BB said, the experiment must go on!  Somehow the coolies and micks and dot heads and pollacks (like myself, also part wop) managed to overcome ethnic and racial prejudice and succeed here.  But you are right, white guilt words.  :thumbsup:

Black people today are vastly more likely to own property, have college degrees and white collar jobs, their income is far closer to white Americans, there is evidence they've begun to bridge the IQ gap etc.

But let's pretend they've made no progress and focus entirely on one reason why (black cultural attitudes) to the exclusion of any other possible reason why they lag behind in many areas. :clap:

Your response proves to me that articles like this one are exercises in confirmation bias and catnip for bigots and dimwits. :thumbsup:

Here is a much better one:

https://www.google.c...have-to-go/amp/
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#15 GobbleDog

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:47 PM

The article does not report.... the Final Solution.?.



#16 jerryskids

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:12 PM

Black people today are vastly more likely to own property, have college degrees and white collar jobs, their income is far closer to white Americans, there is evidence they've begun to bridge the IQ gap etc.

But let's pretend they've made no progress and focus entirely on one reason why (black cultural attitudes) to the exclusion of any other possible reason why they lag behind in many areas. :clap:

Your response proves to me that articles like this one are exercises in confirmation bias and catnip for bigots and dimwits. :thumbsup:

Here is a much better one:

https://www.google.c...have-to-go/amp/

 

Wow, do you read your own links, or do so with some critical thought?

 

 

In 1940, 60 percent of employed black women worked as domestic servants; today the number is down to 2.2 percent, while 60 percent hold white- collar jobs.

 

 

EMPLOYED black women

 

 

Black two-parent families earn only 13 percent less than those who are white. 

 

TWO PARENT FAMILIES

 

That article both lies with statistics like above, and proves the point that those who have risen out of the black inner city culture can do just fine in America.

 

I know it is intellectually untaxing for you to look at my post and conclude "errrr.... racist" but I challenge you to grow intellectually and not draw such a simplistic conclusion, and therefore have a productive discussion about how to address the problem that exists.  :cheers:


"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse." -- John Stuart Mill


#17 MDC

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:52 PM

 
Wow, do you read your own links, or do so with some critical thought?
 
 
EMPLOYED black women
 
TWO PARENT FAMILIES
 
That article both lies with statistics like above, and proves the point that those who have risen out of the black inner city culture can do just fine in America.
 
I know it is intellectually untaxing for you to look at my post and conclude "errrr.... racist" but I challenge you to grow intellectually and not draw such a simplistic conclusion, and therefore have a productive discussion about how to address the problem that exists.  :cheers:


If you scroll back you'll see I didn't call you a racist. I see you aced snark at MIT but flunked reading comprehension. :(

The point is that overall the situation for black Americans is vastly better today than it was 40-50 years ago. So while there's a point to be made about black urban culture holding black people back, it is simplistic at best to lay every problem on this one issue.

HTH
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#18 jerryskids

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:03 PM

If you scroll back you'll see I didn't call you a racist. I see you aced snark at MIT but flunked reading comprehension. :(

The point is that overall the situation for black Americans is vastly better today than it was 40-50 years ago. So while there's a point to be made about black urban culture holding black people back, it is simplistic at best to lay every problem on this one issue.

HTH

 

No, you strongly implied I'm a bigot.  Thanks for wordsmithing, I thought you weren't a fan of that.  :(

 

Yeah blacks are better off, I said that and that is one of the main points.  I feel like it would be Groundhog Day to say what I said earlier.

 

All other ethnicities and races have found a way to succeed here, except Native Americans.  We put them on reservations, and I'll posit that inner cities have become the reservations for AAs.  Isolate them, throw money (tax benefits or entitlements), just don't bother the rest of us.  :dunno:


"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse." -- John Stuart Mill


#19 MDC

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:35 PM

 
No, you strongly implied I'm a bigot.  Thanks for wordsmithing, I thought you weren't a fan of that.  :(
 
Yeah blacks are better off, I said that and that is one of the main points.  I feel like it would be Groundhog Day to say what I said earlier.
 
All other ethnicities and races have found a way to succeed here, except Native Americans.  We put them on reservations, and I'll posit that inner cities have become the reservations for AAs.  Isolate them, throw money (tax benefits or entitlements), just don't bother the rest of us.  :dunno:


I didn't intentionally imply that you're a bigot. I do think you like the OP's article because it confirms your beliefs but if you give it a seconds thought it makes no sense. If black culture is 100% the reason for black failures why are black people so much better off today than years ago?

Whatever. The author of the OP's article didn't even sign his name and falsely attributed it to the Baltimore Sun. That should tell you something about the intellectual integrity at work here.

You're better than this sh1t.
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#20 jerryskids

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:58 PM

I didn't intentionally imply that you're a bigot. I do think you like the OP's article because it confirms your beliefs but if you give it a seconds thought it makes no sense. If black culture is 100% the reason for black failures why are black people so much better off today than years ago?

Whatever. The author of the OP's article didn't even sign his name and falsely attributed it to the Baltimore Sun. That should tell you something about the intellectual integrity at work here.

You're better than this sh1t.

 

Yeah you did.  As a bonus I ignored the "dimwit" comment.

 

 

Your response proves to me that articles like this one are exercises in confirmation bias and catnip for bigots and dimwits.  :thumbsup:

 

 

Also I admitted that it confirmed what I've said here for years.  Anyway, we are in some weird circle where you argue that blacks have it much better these days, and I agree because it proves my point, and then you argue it again, so I'm not sure where to go from here.

 

I'd challenge you to go back and read my posts as I feel there is a lot of intellectual stuff to discuss, but I'm pretty sure you'll pull the racist/bigot card and punt those difficult discussions.  :(


"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse." -- John Stuart Mill


#21 MDC

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:00 PM

 
Yeah you did.  As a bonus I ignored the "dimwit" comment.
 
 
Also I admitted that it confirmed what I've said here for years.  Anyway, we are in some weird circle where you argue that blacks have it much better these days, and I agree because it proves my point, and then you argue it again, so I'm not sure where to go from here.
 
I'd challenge you to go back and read my posts as I feel there is a lot of intellectual stuff to discuss, but I'm pretty sure you'll pull the racist/bigot card and punt those difficult discussions.  :(


More likely I'll get bored and go read the Sixers subreddit or go to bed. :(
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#22 jerryskids

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:20 PM

More likely I'll get bored and go read the Sixers subreddit or go to bed. :(

 

Goodnight MDC.  :cheers:

 

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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse." -- John Stuart Mill


#23 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:21 PM

I recently read an interesting book. Its by Paul Theroux, a prolific American travel writer.

The particular book is called dark star safari, and it is a travelogue of the authors overland trip from Cairo to Cape Town.

One part of his discussion that I found interesting was the discussion of the role of NGO and Aid groups in the plight of Africa.

He makes the claim that the aid groups are mainly there for their own benefit, as it has become a large industry with no end.

He also cites several African scholars that want the aid to leave, As they argue several things...

1. It is crippling, as it creates institutions (corrupt government) that prohibit the growth of the country on its own.

2. It creates an environment where Africans see any improvement as coming from the outside. This disincentivises africans getting involved themselves.

It was argued that the way African aid should be run is large scale labor intensive projects manned by Africans themselves. Build roads. Damns. Irrigation. Give the local people some income and experience in building for themselves. Teach them to fish, if you will.

Instead we (and countries all over the world) build things for them. Hand out food. And nothing ever changes. The infrastructure we build is allowed to decay, as they are not invested in it.

He argues two things...

1. Maybe that is not what they want in the first place...

2. If so, we should be encouraging them to participate.

3. Whatever success that is gained is often temporary, as the Africans that become educated and successful promptly take their talents abroad, rather than helping to fix their own countries.

The parallels between the international response to chronic African calamity and the governments response to the chronic calamity in Americas ghettos seen pretty obvious to me.

Rather than building massive housing projects and schools, staffing them with outsiders, that are promptly allowed to collapse into ruin, we should help the local communities fix their own communities.

Things like loans to small businesses in the ghetto. Tuition assistance for kids from the ghetto to become teachers, with provisions that they return and teach there for X years. Trade schools. Assistance with beautification of communities. They provide the muscle, the materials are on the government. Foster a sense of pride.

That would be my strategy anyway.

#24 jerryskids

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:51 PM

I recently read an interesting book. Its by Paul Theroux, a prolific American travel writer.

The particular book is called dark star safari, and it is a travelogue of the authors overland trip from Cairo to Cape Town.

One part of his discussion that I found interesting was the discussion of the role of NGO and Aid groups in the plight of Africa.

He makes the claim that the aid groups are mainly there for their own benefit, as it has become a large industry with no end.

He also cites several African scholars that want the aid to leave, As they argue several things...

1. It is crippling, as it creates institutions (corrupt government) that prohibit the growth of the country on its own.

2. It creates an environment where Africans see any improvement as coming from the outside. This disincentivises africans getting involved themselves.

It was argued that the way African aid should be run is large scale labor intensive projects manned by Africans themselves. Build roads. Damns. Irrigation. Give the local people some income and experience in building for themselves. Teach them to fish, if you will.

Instead we (and countries all over the world) build things for them. Hand out food. And nothing ever changes. The infrastructure we build is allowed to decay, as they are not invested in it.

He argues two things...

1. Maybe that is not what they want in the first place...

2. If so, we should be encouraging them to participate.

3. Whatever success that is gained is often temporary, as the Africans that become educated and successful promptly take their talents abroad, rather than helping to fix their own countries.

The parallels between the international response to chronic African calamity and the governments response to the chronic calamity in Americas ghettos seen pretty obvious to me.

Rather than building massive housing projects and schools, staffing them with outsiders, that are promptly allowed to collapse into ruin, we should help the local communities fix their own communities.

Things like loans to small businesses in the ghetto. Tuition assistance for kids from the ghetto to become teachers, with provisions that they return and teach there for X years. Trade schools. Assistance with beautification of communities. They provide the muscle, the materials are on the government. Foster a sense of pride.

That would be my strategy anyway.

 

Great post.  Unfortunately MDC will hate it, because racist ummm... bigot werds.  :(


"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse." -- John Stuart Mill


#25 BunnysBastatrds

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:18 AM

I recently read an interesting book. Its by Paul Theroux, a prolific American travel writer.

The particular book is called dark star safari, and it is a travelogue of the authors overland trip from Cairo to Cape Town.

One part of his discussion that I found interesting was the discussion of the role of NGO and Aid groups in the plight of Africa.

He makes the claim that the aid groups are mainly there for their own benefit, as it has become a large industry with no end.

He also cites several African scholars that want the aid to leave, As they argue several things...

1. It is crippling, as it creates institutions (corrupt government) that prohibit the growth of the country on its own.

2. It creates an environment where Africans see any improvement as coming from the outside. This disincentivises africans getting involved themselves.

It was argued that the way African aid should be run is large scale labor intensive projects manned by Africans themselves. Build roads. Damns. Irrigation. Give the local people some income and experience in building for themselves. Teach them to fish, if you will.

Instead we (and countries all over the world) build things for them. Hand out food. And nothing ever changes. The infrastructure we build is allowed to decay, as they are not invested in it.

He argues two things...

1. Maybe that is not what they want in the first place...

2. If so, we should be encouraging them to participate.

3. Whatever success that is gained is often temporary, as the Africans that become educated and successful promptly take their talents abroad, rather than helping to fix their own countries.

The parallels between the international response to chronic African calamity and the governments response to the chronic calamity in Americas ghettos seen pretty obvious to me.

Rather than building massive housing projects and schools, staffing them with outsiders, that are promptly allowed to collapse into ruin, we should help the local communities fix their own communities.

Things like loans to small businesses in the ghetto. Tuition assistance for kids from the ghetto to become teachers, with provisions that they return and teach there for X years. Trade schools. Assistance with beautification of communities. They provide the muscle, the materials are on the government. Foster a sense of pride.

That would be my strategy anyway.


When you can't teach a culture to wear a rubber, what can you teach them?

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#26 peenie

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:23 AM

You kept reading after it said Europeans created a majestic civilization while blacks had no intellectual achievements? I guess you think blacks are sitting in hovels eating government cheese with our feet.
Crime in our inner cities? Funny how whites never complain of having to live in all black, intellectually inferior, crime ridden low income areas like Brooklyn, Harlem, San Francisco, Oakland, Newark, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Washington DC etc. when they're moving back into the cities. Magically, these environments are suddenly safe.
Immigrants do well here, descendants of slaves are not immigrants. There were no laws prohibiting immigrants from living, working marrying and going to school with whites. Not to mention all the unwritten rules and underhanded dealings (red lining).
Worry about your health and your retirement money. If you really want to do something about racial disparities, try to stop being racist jerks.
Peenie gives good thread. -MedStudent
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#27 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:38 AM

You kept reading after it said Europeans created a majestic civilization while blacks had no intellectual achievements? I guess you think blacks are sitting in hovels eating government cheese with our feet.
Crime in our inner cities? Funny how whites never complain of having to live in all black, intellectually inferior, crime ridden low income areas like Brooklyn, Harlem, San Francisco, Oakland, Newark, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Washington DC etc. when they're moving back into the cities. Magically, these environments are suddenly safe.
Immigrants do well here, descendants of slaves are not immigrants. There were no laws prohibiting immigrants from living, working marrying and going to school with whites. Not to mention all the unwritten rules and underhanded dealings (red lining).
Worry about your health and your retirement money. If you really want to do something about racial disparities, try to stop being racist jerks.


Come on Pennie. Your gonna go with there is no problem? Thats crap and you know it, coming from Newark and living in Atlanta.

#28 peenie

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:57 AM

Weinstein
Fires in California
Trump
North Korea
Vegas shooting
....and you guys are concerned about black progress? Why?
Are blacks disappearing? Are we becoming extinct like the Arawak or Taino Indians? I don't think so. Worry about the trees in the Amazon or the bees.
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#29 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:04 AM

Weinstein
Fires in California
Trump
North Korea
Vegas shooting
....and you guys are concerned about black progress? Why?
Are blacks disappearing? Are we becoming extinct like the Arawak or Taino Indians? I don't think so. Worry about the trees in the Amazon or the bees.


No. As prolific as they are at killing each other, they are even more prolific at breeding. So they aint going anywhere.

It is clear that decades of efforts to help have failed. Its clearly time for a new approach. I think more and more people are beginning to lose their care to help anymore at all.

#30 peenie

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:56 AM

Read an article about crime rates in America.
After that ask yourself why you're so concerned about blacks and crime and poverty.
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#31 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:28 AM

Read an article about crime rates in America.
After that ask yourself why you're so concerned about blacks and crime and poverty.


Ill let someone else tee off on this softball. Too easy.

#32 MDC

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:16 AM

 
Great post.  Unfortunately MDC will hate it, because racist ummm... bigot werds.  :(


A lot of the same ideas are covered in the link I provided, only not in the most inflammatory and one-sided way possible and the author isn't anonymous and falsely attributing the column to a newspaper. He also notes that despite the persistent problems in black American communities, African Americans have made massive strides over the past 50+ years.

Oddly those successes are never attributed to blacks people themselves, only the failures. :dunno:
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#33 supermike80

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:32 AM

Weinstein
Fires in California
Trump
North Korea
Vegas shooting
....and you guys are concerned about black progress? Why?
Are blacks disappearing? Are we becoming extinct like the Arawak or Taino Indians? I don't think so. Worry about the trees in the Amazon or the bees.

Because this collection on this bored is one of the most racist collections I have ever run across.  That's why.  One guy said black men should be sterilized.  This bored hates black people.  Period.


If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#34 MDC

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:46 AM

Because this collection on this bored is one of the most racist collections I have ever run across.  That's why.  One guy said black men should be sterilized.  This bored hates black people.  Period.


Is that really racist though? Or are you just too much of a snowflak liberal to accept common sense solutions, like forced sterilization for black people?

Your response proves that the experiment must go on. :(
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#35 supermike80

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:49 AM

Is that really racist though? Or are you just too much of a snowflak liberal to accept common sense solutions, like forced sterilization for black people?

Your response proves that the experiment must go on. :(

Well, yeah.   I know.  I am just not accepting of FACTS...all these FACTS that tell us all blacks should be killed or at least sterilized so they can't breed anymore.  

I guess I am way way way too liberal to think that's a good idea.


If you are going to debate me on this bulletin board,

start with this premise..

You win.  And I don't care.


#36 TimmySmith

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:00 AM

You kept reading after it said Europeans created a majestic civilization while blacks had no intellectual achievements? I guess you think blacks are sitting in hovels eating government cheese with our feet.
Crime in our inner cities? Funny how whites never complain of having to live in all black, intellectually inferior, crime ridden low income areas like Brooklyn, Harlem, San Francisco, Oakland, Newark, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Washington DC etc. when they're moving back into the cities. Magically, these environments are suddenly safe.
Immigrants do well here, descendants of slaves are not immigrants. There were no laws prohibiting immigrants from living, working marrying and going to school with whites. Not to mention all the unwritten rules and underhanded dealings (red lining).
Worry about your health and your retirement money. If you really want to do something about racial disparities, try to stop being racist jerks.

peenie, one of my favorite posters and certainly the best on subject matter like this.  The thing about all of this, which is all true, is that slavery ended 150 years ago, civil rights are at a minimum 40 years old and yet things appear to be going south.   The truth is your slave masters were replaced with your liberal masters and they tell you how to feel.  Any black leader that speaks up about family and education is condemned (like your response in this thread). 

 

2 things. 

1. Are black people unified about what they want?  Not from the U.S., but from themselves.

2. Are they working toward getting it?

 

In general I think the answer to these questions is "somewhat".   For latinos, asians (including east and west) the answer to both of these questions is a resounding yes.  


Did the entire Obama administration use their dog's name as their password?

 


#37 IMMensaMind

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:03 AM

A lot of the same ideas are covered in the link I provided, only not in the most inflammatory and one-sided way possible and the author isn't anonymous and falsely attributing the column to a newspaper. He also notes that despite the persistent problems in black American communities, African Americans have made massive strides over the past 50+ years.
Oddly those successes are never attributed to blacks people themselves, only the failures. :dunno:


It seems to me that you effortlessly and carelessly drift between African Americans as a group, and African Americans as individuals.

As a group, they've badly regressed. That's the focus of this thread.

As individuals, there are boundless examples of massive success.

The latter proves the claim of regression as a result of racism is false.

#38 IMMensaMind

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:04 AM

Well, yeah.   I know.  I am just not accepting of FACTS...all these FACTS that tell us all blacks should be killed or at least sterilized so they can't breed anymore.  
I guess I am way way way too liberal to think that's a good idea.


Why don't you choose to focus on the posts from people who obviously aren't racist, and discuss those, instead of dismissing any culpability that isn't attributable to racism and simply shrug your shoulders and declare your superior position that doesn't actually solve anything?

#39 TD Ryan2

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:05 AM

 the most inflammatory and one-sided way possible and the author... anonymous 

the OP's article is everything that our media, radio, tv, news, etc has become... purposely inflammatory in an attempt to evoke emotion and entice clicks/views/etc.

it's sad how easily it works.

Don't get me wrong - the article make some valid points - but it is rolled up in such acerbic absolutism that it isn't even worth discussing anymore than it's worth talking to the Johovas at the door.

 

There's no doubt that social programs, welfare, and aid can have the unintended consequence of dependency... but pretending it's some evil liberal plan for control or that all failures and blame can be pinned on one element is overly simplistic paranoia.

But it's what the "news" does today... everything's Trump's fault... everything's Obama's fault... build a wall and there will be two, clear, easily identified sides that that the pea-brains can easily understand and fight all day over - it's a ratings bonanza with white hats, black hats, and everyone on a side.

 

Maybe the Black Dilemma isn't much different than the Democracy Dilemma or the Capitalism Dilemma in that all these social systems are deeply flawed but currently are the best we have to work with - so we better keep on figuring out ways to improve them.



#40 IMMensaMind

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:11 AM

the OP's article is everything that our media, radio, tv, news, etc has become... purposely inflammatory in an attempt to evoke emotion and entice clicks/views/etc.
it's sad how easily it works.
Don't get me wrong - the article make some valid points - but it is rolled up in such acerbic absolutism that it isn't even worth discussing anymore than it's worth talking to the Johovas at the door.
 
There's no doubt that social programs, welfare, and aid can have the unintended consequence of dependency... but pretending it's some evil liberal plan for control or that all failures and blame can be pinned on one element is overly simplistic paranoia.


Not when there's significant historic basis for the belief, and especially not when we've known this for decades.

Do you need the quote from LBJ again to demonstrate intent for you?

But it's what the "news" does today... everything's Trump's fault... everything's Obama's fault... build a wall and there will be two, clear, easily identified sides that that the pea-brains can easily understand and fight all day over - it's a ratings bonanza with white hats, black hats, and everyone on a side.


I'm not hearing solutions. I'm hearing trite declarations of how everyone is stupid and simplistic.
 

Maybe the Black Dilemma isn't much different than the Democracy Dilemma or the Capitalism Dilemma in that all these social systems are deeply flawed but currently are the best we have to work with - so we better keep on figuring out ways to improve them.


I'm not hearing solutions. Capitalism, for one, isn't a 'social system'. It is an economic system. There is no 'democracy dilemma', other than those who cannot seem to figure out that we're not a democracy at all, and their dilemma is comprised of figuring out how we can become one, so they gain their goal of mob rule.

Like attempting to remove the Electoral College.