I would love to see the Browns beat the Chargers

[snatchit 108]

Sorry Cowboy fan here and living in Dallas, the fans acted like they won the Super Bowl. Just like when I went to Arrowhead to see the Chiefs win like the 5th in a Row against Dallas a few years ago. I strongly recommend go to KC for a home game.... Their talegating is legendary. After they won, well you can imagine being there with a Dez Bryant jersey

[LaChup 154]

"I would love to see the browns beat anyone." - Anonymous Browns Fan

[weepaws 2,451]

No I want too see them get 0-16.

[Ray_T 587]

No I want too see them get 0-16.

I dont know that I ever want to see a team go 0-16.

 

I actually think the browns have a decent coach. They dont feel like an 0-16 team. They feel more like a 4-12 or 3-13 team.

 

Not that that's a whole lot better......

[Maulers1973 117]

I don't know if the Browns will win a game. The owner has said he will be patient, but as the stands continue to show less and less attendance, I think it will be difficult. Jackson needs to hire an OC, and a good one!!!

 

Also, I hope the Texans continue to lose.

 

If the Browns sign Cousins in the off-season they can add a LOT of playmakers via the draft.

[weepaws 2,451]

I dont know that I ever want to see a team go 0-16.

 

I actually think the browns have a decent coach. They dont feel like an 0-16 team. They feel more like a 4-12 or 3-13 team.

 

Not that that's a whole lot better......

Naw I must disagree.

 

I want them too go 0-16.

 

Means nothing for them too win a few games.

[Oriole8159 86]

I dont know that I ever want to see a team go 0-16.

 

I actually think the browns have a decent coach. They dont feel like an 0-16 team. They feel more like a 4-12 or 3-13 team.

 

Not that that's a whole lot better......

It's not the coach that's the problem, it's the front office.

 

2 years ago trades out of the #2 spot to get Carson Wentz, and wastes a 3rd rd pick on Cody Kessler

Last year trades out of the #12 spot to get Deshaun Watson, and wastes a 2nd rd pick on Deshone Kizer.

Agreed to a way above market trade for AJ McCarron, but got bailed out on their own idiocy.

 

Even with them most likely getting the #1 pick and it being a deep QB draft, I doubt they pick the right guy anyway if they were so far off on Wentz and Watson already, and thought that Cody Kessler was worth a 3rd or a half season+rights of McCarron was worth what they agreed to.

[Maulers1973 117]

It's not the coach that's the problem, it's the front office.

 

2 years ago trades out of the #2 spot to get Carson Wentz, and wastes a 3rd rd pick on Cody Kessler

Last year trades out of the #12 spot to get Deshaun Watson, and wastes a 2nd rd pick on Deshone Kizer.

Agreed to a way above market trade for AJ McCarron, but got bailed out on their own idiocy.

 

Even with them most likely getting the #1 pick and it being a deep QB draft, I doubt they pick the right guy anyway if they were so far off on Wentz and Watson already, and thought that Cody Kessler was worth a 3rd or a half season+rights of McCarron was worth what they agreed to.

 

I disagree. Hugh told them to go get RGIII. That didn't work out. Hugh was high on Kessler, but it hasn't worked out. Hugh was telling them to go get McCarron. Then, the Harvard guys said, "Wait, a weak armed QB who is accurate. We have a guy like that and his name is Cody Kessler." So, they sabotaged it which was actually smart.

 

I'm ok with the owner giving this front office a little more time to get it right. As for Jackson, he should be told to hire an OC or else.

[Oriole8159 86]

 

I disagree. Hugh told them to go get RGIII. That didn't work out. Hugh was high on Kessler, but it hasn't worked out. Hugh was telling them to go get McCarron. Then, the Harvard guys said, "Wait, a weak armed QB who is accurate. We have a guy like that and his name is Cody Kessler." So, they sabotaged it which was actually smart.

 

I'm ok with the owner giving this front office a little more time to get it right. As for Jackson, he should be told to hire an OC or else.

so which was the one who decided to pass on Wentz and Watson?

also, if that is the case, why is a a head coach that was fired immediately after his only season as HC in Oak being given that much pull? and if that is true on the McCarron deal, why sabotage a deal at all when you're the boss and you can just say no? Looking incompetent is no defense.

 

I admit, I don't know all the details and you seem to know what you're talking about, but there's still so many questions that I have. Whether they're the ones actually making the evaluations, or they're the ones having no idea how to run the politics of an NFL front office, it just seems like there shouldn't be any faith in these guys.

[Oriole8159 86]

so which was the one who decided to pass on Wentz and Watson?

also, if that is the case, why is a first time head coach being given that much pull? and if that is true on the McCarron deal, why sabotage a deal at all when you're the boss and you can just say no? Looking incompetent is no defense.

 

I admit, I don't know all the details and you seem to know what you're talking about, but there's still so many questions that I have. Whether they're the ones actually making the evaluations, or they're the ones having no idea how to run the politics of an NFL front office, it just seems like there shouldn't be any faith in these guys.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/hue-jackson-reportedly-wanted-carson-wentz-browns-didnt-think-hed-be-a-top-qb/

 

just found this article posted 5 hrs ago saying it was the FO that passed on Wentz even though Hue Jackson was in love with him...

 

So why didn't the Browns pull the trigger on Wentz? The Browns' front office, which includes a former Dodgers general manager and an analytics-based approach to roster building, didn't deem Wentz worth the risk.

"I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist,'' Browns front office executive Paul DePodesta told ESPN before the '16 season. "In a given year, there may be two or three NFL-ready quarterbacks at the college level. In another year, there literally may be zero. There just may be not be anybody in that year who's good enough to be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL.

"Even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day. I think that's the hardest part, just maintaining your discipline because you have the need. That's what we did [in 2016]."

 

 

Those are the same guys that passed on Deshaun Watson last year, and those are the same guys that will be most likely picking their "QB of the future" finally this year; and in a year where there's plenty of first round talent but no sure fire consensus top guy, that's a recipe for disaster potentially.

[Maulers1973 117]

Oh yeah, there's blood in the water up in Cleveland and Haslam needs to get control over it, but I doubt he will. All he really knows how to do is defraud truckers.

 

Sure, "now" the story comes out the Jackson was in love with Wentz. That story didn't break last year did it. Hmmmmmmm, kind of funny how it comes out now after Wentz goes out and has a good season. I also think it's pure BS!!!

 

 

 

The front office is new, they're using data analytics. They have made a few mistakes most notably cutting Haden a week before game 1. That was horrible to do to the coaching staff. However, Jackson has had a LOT of miscues in game management, clock management, game decisions etc. I think he can coach, and he should be given a chance to learn and get better. Belichek didn't do so hot in Cleveland and look at him now. Though, I don't think Jackson can handle HC duties and play calling. He needs to hire an OC.

 

They can do next year what the Jags and Rams are doing this year.

[Oriole8159 86]

Oh yeah, there's blood in the water up in Cleveland and Haslam needs to get control over it, but I doubt he will. All he really knows how to do is defraud truckers.

 

Sure, "now" the story comes out the Jackson was in love with Wentz. That story didn't break last year did it. Hmmmmmmm, kind of funny how it comes out now after Wentz goes out and has a good season. I also think it's pure BS!!!

 

 

 

The front office is new, they're using data analytics. They have made a few mistakes most notably cutting Haden a week before game 1. That was horrible to do to the coaching staff. However, Jackson has had a LOT of miscues in game management, clock management, game decisions etc. I think he can coach, and he should be given a chance to learn and get better. Belichek didn't do so hot in Cleveland and look at him now. Though, I don't think Jackson can handle HC duties and play calling. He needs to hire an OC.

 

They can do next year what the Jags and Rams are doing this year.

I don't follow the team enough to know who's to blame, but you seem to have some knowledge, so I don't mean to argue.

I've been in management for a long time though, and I can just tell that there is issues with how that front office seems to be handling their business. Sure they've accumulated a lot of draft assets, but I'm not confident that they can convert those assets into actually productive football players...especially at the QB position.

[TheUsualSuspect 207]

If Wentz or Watson were on this team right now they'd be something like 3-10, 4-9 at best. The issues go far beyond just a QB

[Oriole8159 86]

If Wentz or Watson were on this team right now they'd be something like 3-10, 4-9 at best. The issues go far beyond just a QB

I'm aware of that, but at least having a QB in place is such an advantage.

 

But the bigger question is the statements that "I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist" and that "even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day."

 

That's their GM saying that they didn't see Wentz as a Top 20 guy and that selecting him would be akin to inventing him as a franchise player. That's the same logic I'm sure that dictated passing on Watson this year. Their leadership clearly has a problem identifying QB talent, yet they're most likely going to have to make that call this offseason anyway.

 

Thus my problem with them is not that they necessarily passed on them, but they flat out were wrong with their analysis. And if they were so wrong on those two, why should people think they should be equipped to decide which of this year's prospects is the right selection for them to finally cash in on?

[Ray_T 587]

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/hue-jackson-reportedly-wanted-carson-wentz-browns-didnt-think-hed-be-a-top-qb/

 

just found this article posted 5 hrs ago saying it was the FO that passed on Wentz even though Hue Jackson was in love with him...

 

So why didn't the Browns pull the trigger on Wentz? The Browns' front office, which includes a former Dodgers general manager and an analytics-based approach to roster building, didn't deem Wentz worth the risk.

"I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist,'' Browns front office executive Paul DePodesta told ESPN before the '16 season. "In a given year, there may be two or three NFL-ready quarterbacks at the college level. In another year, there literally may be zero. There just may be not be anybody in that year who's good enough to be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL.

"Even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day. I think that's the hardest part, just maintaining your discipline because you have the need. That's what we did [in 2016]."

 

 

Those are the same guys that passed on Deshaun Watson last year, and those are the same guys that will be most likely picking their "QB of the future" finally this year; and in a year where there's plenty of first round talent but no sure fire consensus top guy, that's a recipe for disaster potentially.

 

The scouting reports never indicated that Wentz would be the player he has become. At the time it seemed like a good trade and when you consider how many holes there are in the roster, I dont know that Wentz would have been able to be that player in Cleveland.

 

Drafting a player like that and surrounding him with talent is one thing. Drafting a player like that and putting him on a team with no Talent is another thing entirely.

[Oriole8159 86]

The scouting reports never indicated that Wentz would be the player he has become. At the time it seemed like a good trade and when you consider how many holes there are in the roster, I dont know that Wentz would have been able to be that player in Cleveland.

 

Drafting a player like that and surrounding him with talent is one thing. Drafting a player like that and putting him on a team with no Talent is another thing entirely.

one time you could give them a pass. however...

they think Cody Kessler is worth a 3rd rd pick

they pass on Deshaun Watson the next year

they use a 2nd on Deshone Kizer instead.

they were prepared to trade a 2nd and a 3rd for a rental of AJ McCarron

(and that's not even counting paying Osweiler over $10 million for essentially a 2nd rd pick)

 

it's not just passing on Wentz, it seems to be a complete inability to evaluate the QB position. that's my overall point.

and I agree that if you do actually take a QB high that you need to surround him with talent to help him maximize his potential, but there's a novel approach to that that some people forget about it...it's called not starting the guy immediately and letting him learn the position. that way you can take him along slowly and help him learn the position before putting the weight of the franchise on his shoulders.

 

since the front office was hired in such a novelty manner, you'd think they'd be comfortable in their job security to be able to draft a QB early and decide to not play him until they have the infrastructure in place for him to succeed. You don't hire a front office like that without giving them a lot of slack and without buying into their long term plan, so if the long term plan involved drafting and sitting Wentz, they should have been able to sell that to Cleveland.

Considering Haslem has been a loser owner forever and the Browns fans have been loser (yet weirdly loyal) fans forever, I doubt there would be any cry for mutiny.

 

It just seems like they missed is how I choose to interpret it.

[huskyhater75 242]

I would love to see the Browns beat the pittburg squeelers week 17. If they beat those cheapshot artists I'd drink beer every day for a year, laughing all the way. Why do pittburg players act like escaped convicts all the time? Are they coached to act that way? Hines ward, jimmy harrison, cheap, dirty............................they're favored by the refs.

And they just might (Browns) beat my Packers!

[Maulers1973 117]

I'm a Browns homer and follow the team closely.

 

Consider this, for most of this year Kizer has had HOT GARBAGE to throw to. He is a rookie, and he has made mistakes, but we knew he would. If Wentz had terrible WR's this year he would not be an MVP candidate even though they have a good offensive line. The Browns have a good offensive line. They just need competent WR's. With 5 picks in the top 2 rounds they can get a QB, a shut down CB, and a couple of WR's. Then, they can use the other picks to trade down, acquire future picks or add depth etc.

 

I like Kizer, and I think he could be the guy. I think they should draft a QB in Rd 1, doesn't have to be the first pick but I'm ok with it if it is and there should be a competition next offseason between Kizer and the new guy. They'll have more playmakers to get the ball to.

 

Also, the Browns defense is VASTLY improved this year. In fact, if Ogbah and Collins hadn't gotten hurt they'd be even better. Add a shutdown CB to this group, and if they can stay healthy they'll be a top 10 unit next year.

[Oriole8159 86]

I'm a Browns homer and follow the team closely.

 

Consider this, for most of this year Kizer has had HOT GARBAGE to throw to. He is a rookie, and he has made mistakes, but we knew he would. If Wentz had terrible WR's this year he would not be an MVP candidate even though they have a good offensive line. The Browns have a good offensive line. They just need competent WR's. With 5 picks in the top 2 rounds they can get a QB, a shut down CB, and a couple of WR's. Then, they can use the other picks to trade down, acquire future picks or add depth etc.

 

I like Kizer, and I think he could be the guy. I think they should draft a QB in Rd 1, doesn't have to be the first pick but I'm ok with it if it is and there should be a competition next offseason between Kizer and the new guy. They'll have more playmakers to get the ball to.

 

Also, the Browns defense is VASTLY improved this year. In fact, if Ogbah and Collins hadn't gotten hurt they'd be even better. Add a shutdown CB to this group, and if they can stay healthy they'll be a top 10 unit next year.

For your sake I hope you're right. And I know that Wentz wouldn't be an MVP candidate on the Browns, but he doesn't have to be to show that he's an up and coming franchise talent. The article I referenced above talked about how Hue was blown away by Wentz' mental game and how quickly he became an expert during their predraft visit on the playbook that Hue threw at him. It then went on that Hue was live at Wentz's pro day and was blown away...and they still passed on him.

I know he wouldn't look the same, but he should have still been able to develop to the point that you can tell that the spark is there...and if they couldn't develop a prospect like that, then why should people be confident they can develop the other guy they eventually draft?

 

I looked up the contents of the trade as well as of today, and it's Corey Coleman, Shon Coleman, Cody Kessler, Ricardo Louis, Derrick Kindred, Jordan Payton, Spencer Drango, Jabril Peppers, Deshone Kizer, Hou's first and Philly's 2nd. Not much to show two years later with the picks they've actually made. And you talk like its so easy to get a shutdown corner in the draft, but the success rate to become an actual "shutdown" corner is quite low and the ones that do, most often take a few years to get acclimated to the league.

 

Acquiring assets is fun and all, but I'm just nervous that they'll be able to actually hit on enough to make it worth all this. Remember that the previous regime in Cle got a boatload of picks in the Julio Jones trade and hit on none, and the Rams got a boatload of picks from the RG3 trade and only have a few left over, with only one in my opinion (Ogletree) being a difference maker.

 

You know more than I do so I'll defer to your optimism, but I'm just not convinced they have enough football acumen in that front office to make them a legitimate SB contender at any point.

[Maulers1973 117]

For your sake I hope you're right. And I know that Wentz wouldn't be an MVP candidate on the Browns, but he doesn't have to be to show that he's an up and coming franchise talent. The article I referenced above talked about how Hue was blown away by Wentz' mental game and how quickly he became an expert during their predraft visit on the playbook that Hue threw at him. It then went on that Hue was live at Wentz's pro day and was blown away...and they still passed on him.

I know he wouldn't look the same, but he should have still been able to develop to the point that you can tell that the spark is there...and if they couldn't develop a prospect like that, then why should people be confident they can develop the other guy they eventually draft?

 

I looked up the contents of the trade as well as of today, and it's Corey Coleman, Shon Coleman, Cody Kessler, Ricardo Louis, Derrick Kindred, Jordan Payton, Spencer Drango, Jabril Peppers, Deshone Kizer, Hou's first and Philly's 2nd. Not much to show two years later with the picks they've actually made. And you talk like its so easy to get a shutdown corner in the draft, but the success rate to become an actual "shutdown" corner is quite low and the ones that do, most often take a few years to get acclimated to the league.

 

Acquiring assets is fun and all, but I'm just nervous that they'll be able to actually hit on enough to make it worth all this. Remember that the previous regime in Cle got a boatload of picks in the Julio Jones trade and hit on none, and the Rams got a boatload of picks from the RG3 trade and only have a few left over, with only one in my opinion (Ogletree) being a difference maker.

 

You know more than I do so I'll defer to your optimism, but I'm just not convinced they have enough football acumen in that front office to make them a legitimate SB contender at any point.

 

I can appreciate your trepidation. I really can. In fact, in the upcoming draft there is not a sure thing at QB. It's quite disheartening as a Browns fan that they may own the #1 pick two years in a row with NO stand out QB. Rosen's whole team including coaches hate him because he's a jerk, Darnold had a bad year, Mayfield is Manziel 2.0 and who wants a kid from Wyoming? It's a mess. lol

 

I know shut down corners don't grow on trees. They probably won't get one of those either. lol

[Oriole8159 86]

 

I can appreciate your trepidation. I really can. In fact, in the upcoming draft there is not a sure thing at QB. It's quite disheartening as a Browns fan that they may own the #1 pick two years in a row with NO stand out QB. Rosen's whole team including coaches hate him because he's a jerk, Darnold had a bad year, Mayfield is Manziel 2.0 and who wants a kid from Wyoming? It's a mess. lol

 

I know shut down corners don't grow on trees. They probably won't get one of those either. lol

I'm a Minnesotan, so I also know all too well about eternal optimism. We're still pining over the 1991 Twins.

If anything though, it should be fun watching Cle try to fill this out. Best of luck to you guys.

[Maulers1973 117]

Well, you're Vikings have figured some things out. They're winning consistently with a 3rd string QB!! If they can make a FG in the post season they might go far!

[Oriole8159 86]

Well, you're Vikings have figured some things out. They're winning consistently with a 3rd string QB!! If they can make a FG in the post season they might go far!

yeah we're very happy, but after so many monumental collapses we're not close to getting confident yet.

[Oriole8159 86]

Hey Maulers, I just saw that Cle Exec VP Sashi Brown was fired.

Any insight on what that means?

[Maulers1973 117]

Hey Maulers, I just saw that Cle Exec VP Sashi Brown was fired.

Any insight on what that means?

 

It means that Haslam trusts HC Jackson more than he does Brown. It doesn't surprise me. I don't think it's the right call. Though, that's just my opinion.

 

I do wonder though, if Depodesta and ohers in the front office will be retained or not.

 

Ultimately, I'm pretty sure that this means Haslam still doesn't know what's wrong with the team and/or how to fix it.