What's nutritious?

[TheNewGirl 1,020]

Fair enough. But lost in the shuffle are consumption of calorically dense fatty foods and red meats. People are so bent on avoiding all carbohydrates that ketogenic diets and the like are overhyped - long term data just doesn't exist. Meanwhile, fruits and veggies, which are primarily carbohydrates, are taking a backseat to protein overload. People assume there is no issue with the latter, and if a little is good, more must be better. They fiercely defend protein intake well above that required for a healthy active lifestyle, and ignore any suggestion that disease is associated with excess.

 

I like Pollan because his advice is practical and simple to understand. I'll add we should really be interested in eating a diet that promotes longevity. Looking at the so-called "blue zones", we see common themes: 1. Plant-based diets. 2. Little meat intake 3. Small portions 4. Little to no processed foods. None of them are ketogenic, high protein, high fat or low carbohydrate.

 

 

It sounds like this book: https://www.amazon.com/Spectrum-Scientifically-Proven-Program-Better/dp/B00126MVKS

[BufordT 371]

Fair enough. But lost in the shuffle are consumption of calorically dense fatty foods and red meats. People are so bent on avoiding all carbohydrates that ketogenic diets and the like are overhyped - long term data just doesn't exist. Meanwhile, fruits and veggies, which are primarily carbohydrates, are taking a backseat to protein overload. People assume there is no issue with the latter, and if a little is good, more must be better. They fiercely defend protein intake well above that required for a healthy active lifestyle, and ignore any suggestion that disease is associated with excess.

 

I like Pollan because his advice is practical and simple to understand. I'll add we should really be interested in eating a diet that promotes longevity. Looking at the so-called "blue zones", we see common themes: 1. Plant-based diets. 2. Little meat intake 3. Small portions 4. Little to no processed foods. None of them are ketogenic, high protein, high fat or low carbohydrate.

I keto'd for about 5 1/2 months a few years back with excellent success. When I was on keto the focus wasn't on protein it was on fat intake. The more calories that came from fat calories the better. Which is why I ate bologna from the deli instead of turkey breast or roast beef....bologna is considerably fattier. It is very difficult to overload on protein rich foods.....or fat for that matter. Keto has been around for a long time (well before Atkins) and there are more and more studies supporting it. You're right, though, long term data isn't quite there yet.

 

The biggest benefits of keto at least for me...

 

the foods are very satiable

 

cravings were almost non existence...just ate when I was hungry that's it

 

after the first week or so I felt great

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

I don't think anyone really knows

 

I remember when eggs were good, then bad, then good again, but only egg whites, then egg whites were bad cause no protein, now all of eggs are good again

 

that being said

 

limit sugars, fried foods, and do a little exercise and you are fine

[penultimatestraw 473]

I keto'd for about 5 1/2 months a few years back with excellent success. When I was on keto the focus wasn't on protein it was on fat intake. The more calories that came from fat calories the better. Which is why I ate bologna from the deli instead of turkey breast or roast beef....bologna is considerably fattier. It is very difficult to overload on protein rich foods.....or fat for that matter. Keto has been around for a long time (well before Atkins) and there are more and more studies supporting it. You're right, though, long term data isn't quite there yet.

 

The biggest benefits of keto at least for me...

 

the foods are very satiable

 

cravings were almost non existence...just ate when I was hungry that's it

 

after the first week or so I felt great

Either way, ketogenic diets are emphasizing things other than fruits and veggies, which are arguably the most important parts of any diet. Losing weight isn't the only component of a healthy diet.

[BufordT 371]

Either way, ketogenic diets are emphasizing things other than fruits and veggies, which are arguably the most important parts of any diet. Losing weight isn't the only component of a healthy diet.

Yes, most fruits are non existent on keto except for avocado's. However, veggies are an important part of most keto diets and veggies can make up for just about everything you'd miss by not eating fruits.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Yes, most fruits are non existent on keto except for avocado's. However, veggies are an important part of most keto diets and veggies can make up for just about everything you'd miss by not eating fruits.

But the emphasis isn't on them. Fat takes center stage, protein comes along for the ride (but ends up being more than enough, as most fatty foods also have high protein) while carbohydrates are minimized. At best, some vegetables are in the middle of the ketogenic food pyramid, not the base as they should be IMO.

[TheNewGirl 1,020]

But the emphasis isn't on them. Fat takes center stage, protein comes along for the ride (but ends up being more than enough, as most fatty foods also have high protein) while carbohydrates are minimized. At best, some vegetables are in the middle of the ketogenic food pyramid, not the base as they should be IMO.

 

So as a doctor, you recommend more of a plant based diet?

 

I am only asking because a few weeks back, I was at the doctor and even being an endurance athlete, mine suggested I look into a plant based diet, he said that it tends to be one of the more healthy ones.

 

I completely agree that ANY diet you're on that cuts calories will equate to weight loss, however, I have also found that it's not always "calories in, calories out" simple. At least for my body.

[wiffleball 4,631]

I've seen the latter part of life. Give me a coronary at 65 over the shiit I've seen at 80 any day.

[Mookz 1,287]

 

[penultimatestraw 473]

So as a doctor, you recommend more of a plant based diet?

 

I am only asking because a few weeks back, I was at the doctor and even being an endurance athlete, mine suggested I look into a plant based diet, he said that it tends to be one of the more healthy ones.

 

I completely agree that ANY diet you're on that cuts calories will equate to weight loss, however, I have also found that it's not always "calories in, calories out" simple. At least for my body.

 

Absolutely. There are pros and cons of any diet, but the best, most consistent nutrition data always points to those based on plants. The ergogenic (performance enhancing) benefits of specialized diets haven't been proven convincingly enough to justify swaying from simple, tried-and-true diets based on fruits and veggies. Meat should be considered a side dish at best, and high fat, high sugar, processed food should be avoided. It really isn't that complicated.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I've seen the latter part of life. Give me a coronary at 65 over the shiit I've seen at 80 any day.

Sh!tty diets promote dementia too. All of us are likely to suffer a bit at the end, but those who exercise and maintain a healthy weight have more quality of life in addition to quantity. And the difference is measured in years, roughly 7 added years of life and 2 less years of suffering.

[TheNewGirl 1,020]

So, case in point...

 

There is a new article out by the American Heart Association saying that coconut oil is BAD for you and people need to stop consuming it, or as much of it as people have been. They've also been known to tell us that low fat/higher carb or "fake" sugar is healthy, etc.

 

http://abc7.com/health/coconut-oil-may-not-be-healthy-study-says/2118163/

 

I thought of this thread when I read this article.

 

Now, if you're adding tablespoons of coconut oil and butter to your coffee every morning and also eating it through the day, I can see where eating too much saturated fat can have bad affects on your body, weight, whatever.

 

But again...so much conflicting information out there.

[Mookz 1,287]

So, case in point...

 

There is a new article out by the American Heart Association saying that coconut oil is BAD for you and people need to stop consuming it, or as much of it as people have been. They've also been known to tell us that low fat/higher carb or "fake" sugar is healthy, etc.

 

http://abc7.com/health/coconut-oil-may-not-be-healthy-study-says/2118163/

 

I thought of this thread when I read this article.

 

Now, if you're adding tablespoons of coconut oil and butter to your coffee every morning and also eating it through the day, I can see where eating too much saturated fat can have bad affects on your body, weight, whatever.

 

But again...so much conflicting information out there.

 

Utter BS according to my guy.

 

https://twitter.com/VinnieTortorich/status/877021414330556416

 

https://twitter.com/VinnieTortorich/status/877021791524331520

[TheNewGirl 1,020]

i don't even know who that is.

[Mookz 1,287]

i don't even know who that is.

 

Check him out, he's the real deal.

 

I posted an introductory video above.

 

#NSNG

 

#fockquinoa

[penultimatestraw 473]

So, case in point...

 

There is a new article out by the American Heart Association saying that coconut oil is BAD for you and people need to stop consuming it, or as much of it as people have been. They've also been known to tell us that low fat/higher carb or "fake" sugar is healthy, etc.

 

http://abc7.com/health/coconut-oil-may-not-be-healthy-study-says/2118163/

 

I thought of this thread when I read this article.

 

Now, if you're adding tablespoons of coconut oil and butter to your coffee every morning and also eating it through the day, I can see where eating too much saturated fat can have bad affects on your body, weight, whatever.

 

But again...so much conflicting information out there.

 

Coconut oil is a saturated fat - no one in the mainstream scientific community was ever saying it was especially healthy. It may be slightly less unhealthy than other saturated fats as it can raise both your "good" HDL and "bad" LDL cholesterol more so than other saturated fats. But polyunsaturated fatty acids are still the most healthy, while unsaturated "trans" fats are arguably the worst.

 

In any event, the diet I'm advocating isn't high in fat of any kind.

[Mookz 1,287]

Coconut oil is a saturated fat - no one in the mainstream scientific community was ever saying it was especially healthy. It may be slightly less unhealthy than other saturated fats as it can raise both your "good" HDL and "bad" LDL cholesterol more so than other saturated fats. But polyunsaturated fatty acids are still the most healthy, while unsaturated "trans" fats are arguably the worst.

 

In any event, the diet I'm advocating isn't high in fat of any kind.

 

Who exactly is the doctor here, you or me?

[Alias Detective 1,179]

Just read an article about french fry consumption >2X week doubling one's risk of death: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2017/06/07/ajcn.117.154872.abstract?papetoc

 

That's fine and dandy and not particularly surprising, but the comments under the article expressed typical frustrations people have with nutrition studies: 1. We're all gonna die of something, so who cares? 2. I'd rather die early than give up fries. 3. The study was probably done by the producers of onion rings. 4. I had a grandmother who ate fries every day and lived until 120. 5. Wait a week, and there'll be another study saying fries are good for you. 6. It's just part of another fad diet like low gluten/fat/carbohydrates, etc.

 

With all those concerns, what do you believe about nutrition? Upon what do you base those beliefs? How much effort do you put into trying to eat a "healthy" diet?

 

I once read a study where red M&M's caused cancer.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Health tips are just marketing gimmicks. These studies are pointless. "Did you eat M&Ms ever? Did you get cancer? Well then M&Ms might lead to cancer." Stupid crap like that. Today's health risk is tomorrow's superfood. Just use common sense like another poster said, Limit sugar and fried foods and you are good to go.

 

Who exactly is the doctor here, you or me?

Until I see credentials (public has a right to request medical license from anyone offering medical advice) everyone on his board is equally medically qualified.

[penultimatestraw 473]

So, case in point...

 

There is a new article out by the American Heart Association saying that coconut oil is BAD for you and people need to stop consuming it, or as much of it as people have been. They've also been known to tell us that low fat/higher carb or "fake" sugar is healthy, etc.

 

http://abc7.com/health/coconut-oil-may-not-be-healthy-study-says/2118163/

 

I thought of this thread when I read this article.

 

Now, if you're adding tablespoons of coconut oil and butter to your coffee every morning and also eating it through the day, I can see where eating too much saturated fat can have bad affects on your body, weight, whatever.

 

But again...so much conflicting information out there.

To summarize mainstream scientific thought on nutrition:

 

1. Veggies, fruits and nuts are better than meat.

2. Fish > white > red meat. Be aware of seafood that has higher mercury and PCB concentrations though.

3. Controll your portions

4. Heavily processed foods are to be avoided. This includes trans fats, refined sugars/starches, and just about anything with artificial colors/flavors/sweeteners.

5. Dairy, grains and alcohol in moderation are probably OK, but people tend to overindulge.

 

Don't get fixated on studies about a single food or nutrient, as it's really hard to tease out the impact of one thing on a complex, varied diet.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Health tips are just marketing gimmicks. These studies are pointless. "Did you eat M&Ms ever? Did you get cancer? Well then M&Ms might lead to cancer." Stupid crap like that. Today's health risk is tomorrow's superfood. Just use common sense like another poster said, Limit sugar and fried foods and you are good to go.

 

Until I see credentials (public has a right to request medical license from anyone offering medical advice) everyone on his board is equally medically qualified.

OK doc. What do you think is heathy?

[jerryskids 5,169]

To summarize mainstream scientific thought on nutrition:

 

1. Veggies, fruits and nuts are better than meat.

2. Fish > white > red meat. Be aware of seafood that has higher mercury and PCB concentrations though.

3. Controll your portions

4. Heavily processed foods are to be avoided. This includes trans fats, refined sugars/starches, and just about anything with artificial colors/flavors/sweeteners.

5. Dairy, grains and alcohol in moderation are probably OK, but people tend to overindulge.

 

Don't get fixated on studies about a single food or nutrient, as it's really hard to tease out the impact of one thing on a complex, varied diet.

I'll buy that. Seems like the FDA is still pushing low fat, high carbs though.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I'll buy that. Seems like the FDA is still pushing low fat, high carbs though.

I think there is too much focus on macronutrient content, and not enough on actual foods. But to be fair, the diets of people in Blue Zones tend to have more carbohydrates and less fat.

[tanatastic 2,061]

OK doc. What do you think is heathy?

Meat- People love saying how bad meat is but it's what we ate exclusively for eleventy gamillion years just fine. It's protein and it's just what we are supposed to eat. It's perfectly fine, all forms of it. Ever notice how you feel like you didn't eat anything if you go a day without meat? Me too, it's because it's necessary.

 

Fruits/veggies- Less so than meat. People love saying how they are superfood but most fruit is just sugar and most veggies are just water. Still important and good for you, just don't go thinking a glass of fruit juice is any different than a soda, it isn't. Maybe for some vitamins etc but those are eye-rolly as well.

 

Dairy- Milk does a body good, it's great. Cheese is life, nothing else to say, eat it.

Eggs- Nothing even remotely bad about them, very healthy. Eat them 3 meals a day if you want.

 

Bread- Ahh the big bad wolf. OMG GLUTEN ITS SO BAD FOR YOU! Wrong. Ever heard of a population? Ever wonder how a bajillionty people fed themselves and spread across the world? It's because of wheat and grain crops feeding us. Gluten allergy is 99% a hipster lie. Celiacs is rare, people are just trend hopping, bread and grains are great for you and the only reason there is even such a thing as a populated world of people.

 

Class dismissed. Taught.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Meat- People love saying how bad meat is but it's what we ate exclusively for eleventy gamillion years just fine. It's protein and it's just what we are supposed to eat. It's perfectly fine, all forms of it. Ever notice how you feel like you didn't eat anything if you go a day without meat? Me too, it's because it's necessary.

 

Fruits/veggies- Less so than meat. People love saying how they are superfood but most fruit is just sugar and most veggies are just water. Still important and good for you, just don't go thinking a glass of fruit juice is any different than a soda, it isn't. Maybe for some vitamins etc but those are eye-rolly as well.

 

Dairy- Milk does a body good, it's great. Cheese is life, nothing else to say, eat it.

Eggs- Nothing even remotely bad about them, very healthy. Eat them 3 meals a day if you want.

 

Bread- Ahh the big bad wolf. OMG GLUTEN ITS SO BAD FOR YOU! Wrong. Ever heard of a population? Ever wonder how a bajillionty people fed themselves and spread across the world? It's because of wheat and grain crops feeding us. Gluten allergy is 99% a hipster lie. Celiacs is rare, people are just trend hopping, bread and grains are great for you and the only reason there is even such a thing as a populated world of people.

 

Class dismissed. Taught.

You should make YouTube videos!

[Mookz 1,287]

Meat- People love saying how bad meat is but it's what we ate exclusively for eleventy gamillion years just fine. It's protein and it's just what we are supposed to eat. It's perfectly fine, all forms of it. Ever notice how you feel like you didn't eat anything if you go a day without meat? Me too, it's because it's necessary.

 

Fruits/veggies- Less so than meat. People love saying how they are superfood but most fruit is just sugar and most veggies are just water. Still important and good for you, just don't go thinking a glass of fruit juice is any different than a soda, it isn't. Maybe for some vitamins etc but those are eye-rolly as well.

 

Dairy- Milk does a body good, it's great. Cheese is life, nothing else to say, eat it.

Eggs- Nothing even remotely bad about them, very healthy. Eat them 3 meals a day if you want.

 

Bread- Ahh the big bad wolf. OMG GLUTEN ITS SO BAD FOR YOU! Wrong. Ever heard of a population? Ever wonder how a bajillionty people fed themselves and spread across the world? It's because of wheat and grain crops feeding us. Gluten allergy is 99% a hipster lie. Celiacs is rare, people are just trend hopping, bread and grains are great for you and the only reason there is even such a thing as a populated world of people.

 

Class dismissed. Taught.

 

You had me 99% (milk isn't horrible but it has lactose) until bread. And not because of the gluten, but because of what you said at the top under "meat". The cavemen were out hunting animals and gathering vegetables and berries, they weren't growing wheat and baking loaves of bread. We've only been doing that for maybe half a gamillion years.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

You had me 99% (milk isn't horrible but it has lactose) until bread. And not because of the gluten, but because of what you said at the top under "meat". The cavemen were out hunting animals and gathering vegetables and berries, they weren't growing wheat and baking loaves of bread. We've only been doing that for maybe half a gamillion years.

Modeling our diets on cavemen is absurd. They were eating just to survive, and their activity level is in no way comparable to modern man. Also, since you're making a stink about bread-making, what about cooking food? Pasteurizing milk?

 

It's hard to die of cancer or heart disease when your life expectancy is 35. Remember from an evolutionary standpoint, all you need to do is live long enough to pass on your genes.

[tanatastic 2,061]

 

You had me 99% (milk isn't horrible but it has lactose) until bread. And not because of the gluten, but because of what you said at the top under "meat". The cavemen were out hunting animals and gathering vegetables and berries, they weren't growing wheat and baking loaves of bread. We've only been doing that for maybe half a gamillion years.

I meant that while cavemen ate meat, civilized people only exploded in population due to crops. Modern people needed a self sustaining food source that didn't kill them and eat them sometimes. Bread, among other crops, is what allowed humans to flourish and expand all over the world.

[shotsup 830]

Jizz is nutritional

 

Drink more jizz guys

[penultimatestraw 473]

I meant that while cavemen ate meat, civilized people only exploded in population due to crops. Modern people needed a self sustaining food source that didn't kill them and eat them sometimes. Bread, among other crops, is what allowed humans to flourish and expand all over the world.

What's unhealthy?

[giraldi02 470]

Here's something I've always wondered - what exactly is MSG? And why is it bad for you?

Think of it as a salt substitute.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Think of it as a salt substitute.

So is jizz, and Shots says it's healthy.

[Mookz 1,287]

I meant that while cavemen ate meat, civilized people only exploded in population due to crops. Modern people needed a self sustaining food source that didn't kill them and eat them sometimes. Bread, among other crops, is what allowed humans to flourish and expand all over the world.

 

Yup, I'm not saying bread is deadly or anything. You could have substituted Lucky Charms for bread and people still would have done okay and civiilization still would have expanded, but I don't think you could say they were necessarily healthier.

 

Anyway, I took a pretty severe pounding in this thread, so I'm going to bow out for now, but stick with the NSNG and check back in later with my progress.

[tanatastic 2,061]

What's unhealthy?

I'm really not sure beyond the obvious things like fried food and processed sugary junk. Both of which I eat on the regular. Sodium maybe but that could be just bull. I dont trust any of those studies, they just draw frivolous conclusions to keep research funding coming in.

[wiffleball 4,631]

Sh!tty diets promote dementia too. All of us are likely to suffer a bit at the end, but those who exercise and maintain a healthy weight have more quality of life in addition to quantity. And the difference is measured in years, roughly 7 added years of life and 2 less years of suffering.

Eat a Diick Doogie.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I'm really not sure beyond the obvious things like fried food and processed sugary junk. Both of which I eat on the regular. Sodium maybe but that could be just bull. I dont trust any of those studies, they just draw frivolous conclusions to keep research funding coming in.

Why is it obvious those foods are unhealthy?

[TheNewGirl 1,020]

I think there is too much focus on macronutrient content, and not enough on actual foods. But to be fair, the diets of people in Blue Zones tend to have more carbohydrates and less fat.

 

Are there any books you'd recommend on the Blue Zone information? I did go to Amazon, but not sure if there is one that is better than the others. Thanks.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Are there any books you'd recommend on the Blue Zone information? I did go to Amazon, but not sure if there is one that is better than the others. Thanks.

 

I don't know. I get most of my information from medical journals and a coworker that does aging research. He studies astaxanthin and Okinawans.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Why is it obvious those foods are unhealthy?

I mean obvious as in the ones people are quick to assume. I'm not educated on nutrition, I just use common sense to write these posts. So I have no data or proof. But it doesn't take a professor to know sugary junk food is just chemicals and calories. Fried food I'm not sure why, I have a feeling "trans fats" are just buzz word myths that mean nothing.

[Big Guy 1,400]

What's nutritious?

 

 

 

 

surely not ass munchin