Good recievers are a product of good QBS for most part

[Dsausage 36]

Its amazing how when top tier wideouts who have had the luxury of an elite QB tossing them the pigskin get shipped out to a team with a bad QB how quickly things change. I look at what Peyton and Eli Manning have done. Steve Smith, Pierre Garcon, Hakeem Nicks to name just a couple. Who else fits this category?

[Bobbyn2022 53]

Ask Larry Fitzgerald how he was doing without Warner. Ask Moss how he did when he went to Oakland and played with Jamarcus Russell. Crabtree was done when he had Kaep but all the sudden with Carr he's ballin. Let's see how A.Brown does without Big Ben. How was GRONK without Brady? I mean I can literally go on and on about WR and how their only as good as their QB.

[Ray_T 587]

Ask Larry Fitzgerald how he was doing without Warner. Ask Moss how he did when he went to Oakland and played with Jamarcus Russell. Crabtree was done when he had Kaep but all the sudden with Carr he's ballin. Let's see how A.Brown does without Big Ben. How was GRONK without Brady? I mean I can literally go on and on about WR and how their only as good as their QB.

in most cases, this is true.

 

There are a select few WR's that can get huge numbers regardless of the crappy QB's they have.

 

But the ones who qualify you can probably count on one hand.

 

for the most part, if the QB sucks the WR will often underperform. That is the way of things.

[weepaws 2,450]

Just ask J Rice after J Montana retired.

 

Yea never mind.

 

Yea I agree also.

 

The Qb postion In today's NFL is the most important postion on the offensive side of the ball.

[stonewall 647]

...ask Josh Gordon.

[weepaws 2,450]

Has anyone seen J Gordon ?

[redsrback 30]

Think i disagree with alot said here. First off , are you really going to compare a Back-up QB to big ben who played in the same system for years. Do we forget Issiac Bruce Laying out for the deep ball while todays players are more concerned about 1 hand catches. Issiac Bruce, Torrey Holt and Marshall Faulk, life don't get much better then that. 2 games ago Aaron Rodgers against Dallas looked like he didn't belong in the NFL, the problem was fixed by throwing 56 times against the Bears. I think you need an offensive line that allows you time to step up and deliver the ball. Plus good receivers who believe in you and will lay it all out for you. And lets be honest, a QB looks pretty good when he passes or runs more from the 5 yard line then he does handing off to a RB.

[redsrback 30]

Gordon is a poor example. When Cleveland revolved the offense around him he looked like 1 of the best WRs. When he came back he was out of shape and playing around half the time before needing a rest, and wasnt getting the ball like he did.

[LunaTick 29]

Generalization tend to be tough to hold true.

 

Offensive players, individually, are only going affect a team so far.

 

Some WR have a need to play in a situation to excel

Some WR will be a team top WR no matter whose team they play on

 

true an offense and qb can impact the ceiling for a play like Rice, Moss, Carter, Brandon Marshall.

 

same is true that for some wr, that their value is solely going to be attributed to a connection they have with a QB or a system.

 

Wallace is a good wr, but his stats are only going to shine if the right situation exists.

 

Compare this with Moss. Moss is going to shine regardless. Get him with a decent QB that can read the entire field. He can excel and be happy. Reason he liked Gus Frerotte over culpper at one point. ,

[Hardcore troubadour 12,552]

Ask Larry Fitzgerald how he was doing without Warner. Ask Moss how he did when he went to Oakland and played with Jamarcus Russell. Crabtree was done when he had Kaep but all the sudden with Carr he's ballin. Let's see how A.Brown does without Big Ben. How was GRONK without Brady? I mean I can literally go on and on about WR and how their only as good as their QB.

Moss never played with Russell.

[Bobbyn2022 53]

Moss played in Oakland and didn't do jack. Then he plays with Brady and breaks records. It's crazy how some of you actually think a great WR can still perform without a QB. How is Hopkins doing this year? Osweiler is trash. Meridith without Hoyer was balling oh wait. Man I wish I played fantasy football with some of you. I can give you way more examples than you can...

[brotherbock 349]

Moss played in Oakland and didn't do jack. Then he plays with Brady and breaks records. It's crazy how some of you actually think a great WR can still perform without a QB. How is Hopkins doing this year? Osweiler is trash. Meridith without Hoyer was balling oh wait. Man I wish I played fantasy football with some of you. I can give you way more examples than you can...

So, the amazing insight you have expressed is that, when playing catch, the guy throwing the ball matters as much as the guy catching the ball?

 

Remarkable.

[stonewall 647]

Man I wish I played fantasy football with some of you.

 

 

I shudder at the very thought.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,552]

Moss played in Oakland and didn't do jack. Then he plays with Brady and breaks records. It's crazy how some of you actually think a great WR can still perform without a QB. How is Hopkins doing this year? Osweiler is trash. Meridith without Hoyer was balling oh wait. Man I wish I played fantasy football with some of you. I can give you way more examples than you can...

Yeah but he didn't play with Russell in Oakland. Did have 1k yards and 8 td's his first year. Was hurt most of the second.

[brotherbock 349]

Yeah but he didn't play with Russell in Oakland. Did have 1k yards and 8 td's his first year. Was hurt most of the second.

Russell's accuracy was so bad, he ended up hitting Moss even though they weren't even there the same season.

[track 1 16]

sidney rice in minnesota

 

he was a nobody then brett farve came and he became a top 5 wr...then brett farve left and he went back to being a nobody

[LunaTick 29]

Sydney was climbing. This with the incompetence that is Childress.

 

What hurt Rice is getting injured in the post season.

Then electing not to have surgery in the offseason.

The electing to have surgery during camp.

 

Effectively missing 2010 and 2011 season for this (Vikes/Seahawks)

 

Had he gotten surgery right away, what might have been.

 

How about Percy Harvin or Nate Burleson.

 

Sometimes a WR can go just about anywhere and succeed.

Sometimes there is only a few places a WR can succeed, and perhaps only for a short while.

[Dsausage 36]

I dont see a lot of argument. Case closed. Its all about the QB. Peyton created Demaryius.

[Ghost to the Post 2]

Jarvis Landry, Irving Fryar (Eagles), Jimmy Smith, AJ Green, Chris Carter, Sterling Sharpe, all had have avg to crap QB's. Can add more but got to sleep. Sharpe had Farve at end. Lynn Dickey, Majicman. Alot of bad QB's for the above.

[Ghost to the Post 2]

Herman Moore

[Ghost to the Post 2]

Steve Largent, Megatron, Stephone Paige , Tim Brown list goes on n on.

[Ghost to the Post 2]

Sydney Rice n good reciever made me lol.

[Oriole8159 86]

I don't get why you're trying to make this such a black and white issue when it's obviously some of both. There's plenty of very talented WRs that are not able to hit their max production because of the system or the lack of a quality QB, but that doesn't mean an astute football mind shouldn't be able to see that they're still a very good WR.

 

Case in point 1, Jeremy Maclin. The guy was a 1st rd pick, and when he conveniently was in a high temp offense in Philly, he maxed out at 1300 yds and 10 TDs. He voluntarily goes to KC knowing that it's a more conservative offense, and his next yr he has 1000 yds and 8 TDs. He didn't get worse, he was just asked to do different things. If you compare him though to the best WR KC had the previous yr, that guy had 754 yds and 0 TDs. His personal best stats go down by 300 yds and 2 TDs, but he is 250 yds and 8 TDs better than the best guy in the exact same offense just one year previous. Are you saying that Jeremy Maclin got worse?

 

Case in point 2, Jarvis Landry: The guy is obviously a stud, and was only a 2nd rd player because he happened to come out during the deepest WR class in history. On an absolutely abysmal offense, he still put up a best year of 110 rec for almost 1200 yds. You know for a fact that if you put him on NE, he's potentially a Top 5 WR statistically. That doesn't change his already evident skill set though; an astute football mind should already be able to know that Landry is a great player.

 

So you're confusing circumstances with actual skills. Now certain great QBs can make ordinary WRs into playmakers, that's not a fact that people would dispute. Favre did it with Driver, Peyton did it with Collie and Stokley, Brady has done it with Edelman. But a good WR is a good WR still, and that's what you're clearly not acknowledging for whatever reason. Now that does mean they may not be able to hit their statistic maximum, but give credit where credit is due, dude.

 

This is a gray issue,

[Mike Nice 40]

Anyone who has the luxury to play with Tom Brady- Wes Welker, Deion Branch, David Givens, Juliian Edelman. Just to name a few.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,552]

Anyone who has the luxury to play with Tom Brady- Wes Welker, Deion Branch, David Givens, Juliian Edelman. Just to name a few.

Welker was great with Manning. Maybe better. Deion Branch? What was so good about him with Brady? His stats with Seattle are about the same. Mediocre.

[TennisMenace 156]

In the Rams - Giant game, Ken Britt was all alone no one near him for an easy td, but Keenum was being Keenum, and couldn't get it to him. If that were Brady, Ben, Eli, it is a long td no questions asked.

 

Do good qbs make better WR? Absolutely.

 

Do bad qbs hold back good WRs? Absolutely.

 

Do you think Antonio Brown would be just as good,with Keenum as his qb? Absolutely not.

[Bobbyn2022 53]

In the Rams - Giant game, Ken Britt was all alone no one near him for an easy td, but Keenum was being Keenum, and couldn't get it to him. If that were Brady, Ben, Eli, it is a long td no questions asked.

 

Do good qbs make better WR? Absolutely.

 

Do bad qbs hold back good WRs? Absolutely.

 

Do you think Antonio Brown would be just as good,with Keenum as his qb? Absolutely not.

 

You get it the rest of these guys are idiots. The guy that mention Sydney Rice is on point. Who was Decker before Peyton came around. Thomas was a monster with Manny. How is garçon doing without Peyton? Like Insaid why isn't Hopkins doing anything? James Jones with Aaron Rogers baller but when he was with Oakland he didn't do anything. The QB has EVERYTHING to do with the success of a WR. Can a WR have a few good games sure maybe even a decent season but if he ever wants to be elite he'll need a QB.

[Mark91G 13]

i do feel this is a one sided argument tho.

I mean if you have a bad QB who is holding on to the ball to long taken sacks only targeting you 2/3 times when you have got free and open 10 times in the game then of course your stats look worse.

 

I mean this season watching the last 3 Huston games Hopkins has got separation on a lot of occasions but brock hasn't even looked his way ( then sacked )

you cant put that on Hopkins.

now if the qb is playing the ball slightly behind or in front or too high a good WR should still make that play and that's a different story but can brand them all the same.

 

id like to throw AJ green in the mix as well when Dalton plays good he has big games when Dalton has a shocker AJ usually still has a big game as long as Dalton can throw at least to his side the big man makes a play.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Moss played in Oakland and didn't do jack. Then he plays with Brady and breaks records. It's crazy how some of you actually think a great WR can still perform without a QB. How is Hopkins doing this year? Osweiler is trash. Meridith without Hoyer was balling oh wait. Man I wish I played fantasy football with some of you. I can give you way more examples than you can...

No one here would subject themselves to that. If they did, then they must have some kind of fetish for punishment.

[rallo 132]

I think the problem with the argument is "elite QB". You can have a serviceable QB, coupled with a bad defense and some garbage time, or and elite WR and still be productive... Hopkins is a great example of this, as I wouldnt call Schaub, hoyer, Yates, or Mallett "elite". I will agree that terrible qbs will hurt a WR though

[Mark91G 13]

at the end of the day the best WR in the league would put up terrible numbers all season if they only got 1/2 looks per game and only thrown to into double coverage 5 yards downfield by a bad qb.

 

the best qb could only put up average points if he had a team full of WRs who drop the ball or couldn't get separation.

 

but its not fair at all to compare them I mean every throw is yards to a qb but a qb isn't getting double teamed and he is the only qb on the park.

the WR is one or 3 plus TE's on the pitch.

 

at the end of the day your not putting up elite qb numbers with out a good WR and a WR isn't putting elite number without a good qb

AJ and megatron done it with good not elite qbs and brees has done it with a good WR not elite

[brotherbock 349]

I think the problem with the argument is "elite QB". You can have a serviceable QB, coupled with a bad defense and some garbage time, or and elite WR and still be productive... Hopkins is a great example of this, as I wouldnt call Schaub, hoyer, Yates, or Mallett "elite". I will agree that terrible qbs will hurt a WR though