Strike 3,968 Posted April 17, 2017 No one is saying Jesus didn't exist. Most atheist believe that yeah, there probably was a guy named Jesus 2,000 years ago. We are just calling BS on everything else. Like do you really think Moses gather one male and one female of every species? Really? And did Moses do it before or after Noah? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,640 Posted April 17, 2017 No one is saying Jesus didn't exist. Most atheist believe that yeah, there probably was a guy named Jesus 2,000 years ago. We are just calling BS on everything else. Like do you really think Moses gather one male and one female of every species? Really? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted April 17, 2017 And did Moses do it before or after Noah? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Sh!t guys sorry, the story wasn't brainwashed into my head so I don't remember all the characters. Moses/Noah same thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted April 17, 2017 Sh!t guys sorry, the story wasn't brainwashed into my head so I don't remember all the characters. Moses/Noah same thing. see this is the attitude thats BS to me.... great you are an atheist wonderful. But its kinda hard to understand Art, Literature, history and so on when you have literally no knowledge of the most influential work in western civilization and its simply because of ignorance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,633 Posted April 17, 2017 No one is saying Jesus didn't exist. Most atheist believe that yeah, there probably was a guy named Jesus 2,000 years ago. We are just calling BS on everything else. Like do you really think Moses gather one male and one female of every species? Really? Most adults in church don't believe that stuff either. Many priests as well. It's reffered to as rational deism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mookz 1,287 Posted April 17, 2017 Not scared of him or it at all. But asking for any shred of tangible proof of something you are altering your entire life on.....and nobody can do it....speaks massive volumes. A while back I posted some pretty convincing celebrity ghost stories. Why would Telly Savalas or Cavett lie? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted April 17, 2017 Oh yes...forgot you posted this. Captain fencerider. No fence sitting to it. I believe in God. Im not ashamed of it. I can no more prove his existence than you can his non-existence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 No one is saying Jesus didn't exist. Most atheist believe that yeah, there probably was a guy named Jesus 2,000 years ago. We are just calling BS on everything else. Like do you really think Moses gather one male and one female of every species? Really? My point was that Jesus made some very specific claims. Either you refute those claims because you think he was purposefully manipulating people or you simply think he was crazy. If he is who he said he was, then he is absolute Lord of your life whether or recognize it as so or not. To answer your second question, yes I think it's possible that Noah gathered animals. If God can create a universe, he can bring the necessary elements together for species survival. But, I don't know that for a fact, of course. Some of the Bible is clearly metaphorical. So, other interpretations of things like that story certainly exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shotsup 832 Posted April 17, 2017 What about the 7 apostles? Where are they in this history ? Dwarfs. Yeah 7 Dwarfs. I mix them up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted April 17, 2017 I have always found the faith of others amazing when it comes to denying the existence of God. Our bodies are running rampant with all sorts of systems that have to work in unison...and somehow they do to sustain life. Our brains allow for intelligent thought (sometimes ) and emotions and love and yet it all just appeared from nothing at all. I think it takes a TON more faith to believe that everything we see around us just spontaneously arrived here somehow. Sorry fumble, but if the critical question is how something as complex as human life just came to be, attributing it to an infinitely more complex, all-powerful, ethereal being, who also completely defies explanation as to how it came into being, doesn't really get us anywhere. It's a logical non-starter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclone24 1,814 Posted April 17, 2017 My point was that Jesus made some very specific claims. Either you refute those claims because you think he was purposefully manipulating people or you simply think he was crazy. If he is who he said he was, then he is absolute Lord of your life whether or recognize it as so or not. To answer your second question, yes I think it's possible that Noah gathered animals. If God can create a universe, he can bring the necessary elements together for species survival. But, I don't know that for a fact, of course. Some of the Bible is clearly metaphorical. So, other interpretations of things like that story certainly exist. I always think it's funny which parts you guys find metaphorical....it's usually the parts that realistically are complete BS. Like the ark for example. But other parts....oh yeah that's real. It's not trail mix....can't pick and choose which parts you buy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted April 17, 2017 My point was that Jesus made some very specific claims. Either you refute those claims because you think he was purposefully manipulating people or you simply think he was crazy. If he is who he said he was, then he is absolute Lord of your life whether or recognize it as so or not. To answer your second question, yes I think it's possible that Noah gathered animals. If God can create a universe, he can bring the necessary elements together for species survival. But, I don't know that for a fact, of course. Some of the Bible is clearly metaphorical. So, other interpretations of things like that story certainly exist. I think he was crazy, absolutely. I think a lot of people back in those days were crazy and believed some pretty dumb sh!t. I mean just 300 years ago you could get killed for being a witch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,633 Posted April 17, 2017 I always think it's funny which parts you guys find metaphorical....it's usually the parts that realistically are complete BS. Like the ark for example. But other parts....oh yeah that's real. It's not trail mix....can't pick and choose which parts you buy. Sure you can. Believe in the love thy neighbor stuff, be amused by the rest. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 see this is the attitude thats BS to me.... great you are an atheist wonderful. But its kinda hard to understand Art, Literature, history and so on when you have literally no knowledge of the most influential work in western civilization and its simply because of ignorance This is where I get puzzled. There is an absolute truth that exists in this world. The world did come into existence somehow and the order of things that we observe came from somewhere. That was enough for me to get me started on my journey to figure it out years ago. Some people, I guess, simply don't care to seek it out. I wasn't able to ignore it. There is truth in this world. It is absolute. I wanted to explore that reality and it led me to some conclusions. For what it's worth... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 Sorry fumble, but if the critical question is how something as complex as human life just came to be, attributing it to an infinitely more complex, all-powerful, ethereal being, who also completely defies explanation as to how it came into being, doesn't really get us anywhere. It's a logical non-starter. Yeah, it's pretty mind-boggling no matter which direction you go from a logic standpoint. Definitely goes beyond our thinking to pursue anything concrete. But, I did pursue nevertheless and my faith 30 years later remains intact for a whole host of reasons. But, I agree that you can go round and round in your mind on this stuff until you just get mentally dizzy... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted April 17, 2017 My point was that Jesus made some very specific claims. Either you refute those claims because you think he was purposefully manipulating people or you simply think he was crazy. If he is who he said he was, then he is absolute Lord of your life whether or recognize it as so or not. To answer your second question, yes I think it's possible that Noah gathered animals. If God can create a universe, he can bring the necessary elements together for species survival. But, I don't know that for a fact, of course. Some of the Bible is clearly metaphorical. So, other interpretations of things like that story certainly exist. And how did Noah insure that all the animals focked and that they all had functioning sexual organs? Also how did he fit all the food for all the animals onto the boat? How did he get the animals that were predators not to eat the other animals? What about bugs did he get all the bugs? What if the bugs didn't live in the area of the world he lived in? But let me guess, I just need to have faith? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 I always think it's funny which parts you guys find metaphorical....it's usually the parts that realistically are complete BS. Like the ark for example. But other parts....oh yeah that's real. It's not trail mix....can't pick and choose which parts you buy. The Bible is composed with specific obvious specificity in terms of writing styles. For example, the book of Revelation is clearly symbolic/metaphorical writing- nearly all Biblical scholars agree on that. I don't pick and choose out of convenience. I try to figure out what the intent of the book/chapter/verse was. Some things are obvoiusly literal, some less so, and some I'm not sure. But, I don't adopt and discard based on personal preference like trail mix. That was a good analogy by the way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,640 Posted April 17, 2017 So, did we wrap that whole God thing up yet? I can't wait for the headline: MAN WINS INTERWEB SLAP FIGHT ON LOW RENT BORED - GOD DOESN'T EXIST! Rome: Churches by the thousands began disbanding after reading comments made on the previously unknown "Fantasy Football Today". Apparently, no one has ever thought to ask of proof of God's existence. Failing that, one member said "PWNT!" and the other one said "TILT"! ...And now we know, God is a fraud. Film at eleven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted April 17, 2017 If I die holding my breathe waiting for God to show back up does that count as a suicide and do I go to hell? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 And how did Noah insure that all the animals focked and that they all have functioning sexual organs? Also how did he fit all the food for all the animals onto the boat? How did he get animals that were predators not to eat the other animals? What about bugs did he get all the bugs? What if the bugs didn't live in the area of the world he lived in? But let me guess, I just need to have faith? How would I know all of that? It would require divine intervention in the process if that's what you're asking. I believe the whole thing is much bigger than what you believe it is. I do think you have to have enough faith to begin exploring further for yourself. I think you start with Jesus and expand out from there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 I think he was crazy, absolutely. I think a lot of people back in those days were crazy and believed some pretty dumb sh!t. I mean just 300 years ago you could get killed for being a witch. At least you have a take on it. That belief will probably prohibit you from exploring it further, but I respect that you do believe one of the three basic options. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted April 17, 2017 And how did Noah insure that all the animals focked and that they all had functioning sexual organs? Also how did he fit all the food for all the animals onto the boat? How did he get the animals that were predators not to eat the other animals? What about bugs did he get all the bugs? What if the bugs didn't live in the area of the world he lived in? But let me guess, I just need to have faith? Maybe he didn't do any of those things. Maybe the ark was like Thunderdome and the animals we have now are just the ones who made it through. Mind blown, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 So, did we wrap that whole God thing up yet? I can't wait for the headline: MAN WINS INTERWEB SLAP FIGHT ON LOW RENT BORED - GOD DOESN'T EXIST! Rome: Churches by the thousands began disbanding after reading comments made on the previously unknown "Fantasy Football Today". Apparently, no one has ever thought to ask of proof of God's existence. Failing that, one member said "PWNT!" and the other one said "TILT"! ...And now we know, God is a fraud. Film at eleven. Personally, I'm too old for slap-fights. Waste of time. I thought the discussion basically seemed civil, so I decided to weigh in. From what I can tell, it's been very civil. I don't mind people questioning what I believe and saying that it seems crazy to them. I would hope they don't mind me questioning them as well. If the conversation becomes un-civil, I will simply smile and bow out. Again, too old and busy for debate. But, I do like discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted April 17, 2017 Maybe he didn't do any of those things. Maybe the animals we have now are just the ones who made it through. Mind blown, right? No man, not at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,640 Posted April 17, 2017 There's something uniquely ironical about the same guy who believes that a planet MUST exist that sustains human life - even though he's never seen it and there's no proof of it. - Believing that there's no intelligent force that could have possibly helped form the outrageously complex beings found on the one planet he's standing on that obviously DOES exist. I mean, there's only like SIX BILLION base pairs of Genes that need to line up perfectly in each human being, but yeah, I"m sure with enough sludge piles and a little luck... I mean, just from an evidentiary perspective alone... But then again, no way I'm getting into a nonsensical slap fight with that tard. Believe, don't believe, fock I care? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted April 17, 2017 There's something uniquely ironical about the same guy who believes that a planet MUST exist that sustains human life - even though he's never seen it and there's no proof of it. - Believing that there's no intelligent force that could have possibly helped form the outrageously complex beings found on the one planet he's standing on that obviously DOES exist. I mean, there's only like SIX BILLION base pairs of Genes that need to line up perfectly in each human being, but yeah, I"m sure with enough sludge piles and a little luck... I mean, just from an evidentiary perspective alone... But then again, no way I'm getting into a nonsensical slap fight with that tard. Believe, don't believe, fock I care? Okay, I believe that out of the trillions and trillions of planets out there in the universe that at least one has intelligent life on it. You and you're Flock on the other hand believe man made fairytales that aren't falsifiable. I mean to me it is as pathetic as a 14 year old who still thinks Santa is real... and it is only because his parents don't have the heart to tell him.. you are that child. Also, the genes aren't lined up perfectly, nothing is perfect in nature, it just appears that way to you because you are borderline retarded. Like an idiot that sees 23 everywhere he looks. I wish I was as dumb as you and the rest of the Flock, you are happier people that is true, less on the mind, less stress, clearly not as much free thought, must be nice honestly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted April 17, 2017 Some, but certainly not all. Not all group activities are positive. Nor, are they philanthropic. Nor do they make the community a better place. Ok, any volunteer group. But let's not pretend something positive comes out of every church meeting. Half the people are just going through the motions, and a lot of donation money is "reinvested" in the church. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted April 17, 2017 The thing is I would think that religious folks could easily prove this. I mean if I'm going to alter my entire life and live my life a certain specific way for this Grand reward upon my death I would think that I would want to make sure that it's a actual thing.Yep, that's the major flaw in Pascal's wager. Lucky for us, the bulk of religious teaching are worthwhile and positive for humanity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,968 Posted April 17, 2017 I have always found the faith of others amazing when it comes to denying the existence of God. Our bodies are running rampant with all sorts of systems that have to work in unison...and somehow they do to sustain life. Our brains allow for intelligent thought (sometimes ) and emotions and love and yet it all just appeared from nothing at all. I think it takes a TON more faith to believe that everything we see around us just spontaneously arrived here somehow. With regards to my own faith, that was a jumping off point many, many years ago...it's evolved now into something much richer and assured. Just my two cents. I was sincere in making my first sentence. I really do find faith in nothing at all to be pretty amazing. A non religious person would never say that we got here through some spontaneous event. I think you're purposely minimizing the science around this issue. I find it funny that you use the word evolution to describe your thought processes at this point but minimize the concept in nature. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mobb_deep 917 Posted April 17, 2017 Jesus definitely was a real person. Contrary to popular belief, he was simply a mentally ill drifter, just like we all over every the world today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 A non religious person would never say that we got here through some spontaneous event. I think you're purposely minimizing the science around this issue. I find it funny that you use the word evolution to describe your thought processes at this point but minimize the concept in nature. Tell me the specific science that you're referring to. I am definitely not anti-science. I think faith and science generally go hand in hand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,968 Posted April 17, 2017 Tell me the specific science that you're referring to. I am definitely not anti-science. I think faith and science generally go hand in hand. It's called evolution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted April 17, 2017 Tell me the specific science that you're referring to. I am definitely not anti-science. I think faith and science generally go hand in hand. There are many examples, the age of the earth and evolution being two of the bigger ones. But the very foundation of religion, faith, is antithetical to scientific empiricism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,125 Posted April 17, 2017 Tell me the specific science that you're referring to. I am definitely not anti-science. I think faith and science generally go hand in hand. How old is the earth? I'll go ahead and assume you'll say 2017 years. Okay, so how do you see light from stars more than 2017 light years away? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted April 17, 2017 How old is the earth? I'll go ahead and assume you'll say 2017 years. Okay, so how do you see light from stars more than 2017 light years away? Why would anyone say 2017 years? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,380 Posted April 17, 2017 How old is the earth? I'll go ahead and assume you'll say 2017 years. Okay, so how do you see light from stars more than 2017 light years away? Jesus wasn't born on year 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,968 Posted April 17, 2017 Jesus wasn't born on year 0 So the Earth is about 2037 years old? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 It's called evolution. Why are you being condescending? You know I am an intelligent person. I know that is true of you as well. No need for condescension. I obviously know about evolution. Things obviously do evolve. I can believe in that science and creation at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,968 Posted April 17, 2017 Why are you being condescending? You know I am an intelligent person. I know that is true of you as well. No need for condescension. I obviously know about evolution. Things obviously do evolve. I can believe in that science and creation at the same time. My apologies if I came off as condescending. It was not my intent. In any event, my entire line of discussion was based on this comment: I think it takes a TON more faith to believe that everything we see around us just spontaneously arrived here somehow If you understand evolution then you understand that no one is saying we just spontaneously came in to existence. It was a slow, long process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fumbleweed 426 Posted April 17, 2017 So the Earth is about 2037 years old? How old is the earth? I'll go ahead and assume you'll say 2017 years. Okay, so how do you see light from stars more than 2017 light years away? BC predates Christ by thousands of years. But, that's not what you're asking. I don't know how old the earth is. Science suggests in many cases that it's very old. Doesn't affect any of my beliefs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
