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Steel and Aluminum Tariffs (Good or bad?)


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#121 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 04:43 PM

This will hurt Vandelay Industries


Suck it Rockford---

 

The Right protests the killing of babies, the left protests EVERYTHING else


#122 tanatastic

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 05:52 PM

https://finance.yaho...-202014234.html

He’s changed it, now there are exceptions and stuff.

#123 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 05:58 PM

Art of the deal

#124 Casual Observer

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:02 PM

I agree with mobb_deep's comments on the subject. The discussion should also be viewed less in terms of what is a conservative or liberal position, but what is a globalist position vs. a populist or nationalist position. "Conservatives" like the Koch bros. don't care about the average working American.

#125 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:19 PM

Ill say again I dont know enough to know the full ramifications. I dont think any of us do.

But trump does have a gift for selling complex problems in a simple way that is hard to argue with. Like the ours are taxed more than theirs thing.

#126 drobeski

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:31 PM

It's about national security

#127 mobb_deep

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:32 PM

I agree with mobb_deep's comments on the subject. The discussion should also be viewed less in terms of what is a conservative or liberal position, but what is a globalist position vs. a populist or nationalist position. "Conservatives" like the Koch bros. don't care about the average working American.


Very true. Bernie campaigned against TPP, voted against NAFTA, etc. Both him and Trump have a populist message. The big difference is Bernies message was to use tax revenue to fund things like college, healthcare, etc, while Trump is more concerned with funding our military, corporate profits, trickle down economics, etc.

Sangre Por Sangre


#128 Sho Nuff

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:02 PM

Ill say again I dont know enough to know the full ramifications. I dont think any of us do.

But trump does have a gift for selling complex problems in a simple way that is hard to argue with. Like the ours are taxed more than theirs thing.


He sells it with BS put in simple terms (he knows his audience).

#129 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:04 PM

He sells it with BS put in simple terms (he knows his audience).


Ok. Tell me a good reason why our products should be taxed higher than other countries products are here?

Ive yet to hear a good one.

Now the better solution would be for Europe and others to lower their tariffs to our levels. Which, I would imagine, is probably trumps end goal here.

#130 Sho Nuff

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:24 PM

Ok. Tell me a good reason why our products should be taxed higher than other countries products are here?

Ive yet to hear a good one.

Now the better solution would be for Europe and others to lower their tariffs to our levels. Which, I would imagine, is probably trumps end goal here.

 

Perhaps...and maybe we get there.  We will see.

Ive not seen one person be able to answer to me what the pros vs cons are as I asked earlier.

Pros?

Jobs of course...but for one industry.  Wages too.

Cons?

What about industries that rely on steel and aluminum?  How does this affect their jobs? Wages?  Costs? and Prices?

What about consumers?  Its pretty much a given that consumer prices will go up, correct?

Effects from allies affected and tarrifs they enact in "retaliation" (see bourbon, Harleys...that have been threatened)  And those effects on our businesses here.

 

This isn't R vs. D here (actually historically the R position would be against such a thing).  Economists don't seem to agree with such a move.



#131 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:28 PM

 
Perhaps...and maybe we get there.  We will see.
Ive not seen one person be able to answer to me what the pros vs cons are as I asked earlier.
Pros?
Jobs of course...but for one industry.  Wages too.
Cons?
What about industries that rely on steel and aluminum?  How does this affect their jobs? Wages?  Costs? and Prices?
What about consumers?  Its pretty much a given that consumer prices will go up, correct?
Effects from allies affected and tarrifs they enact in "retaliation" (see bourbon, Harleys...that have been threatened)  And those effects on our businesses here.
 
This isn't R vs. D here (actually historically the R position would be against such a thing).  Economists don't seem to agree with such a move.


Sure. I get that.

But I dont like our stuff being taxed higher abroad either. In a global economy, that also hurts American business and the American worker.

I hope at some juncture cooler heads prevail and we use the opportunity to put pressure on Europe to lower their tariffs.

I dont see what justification they have to start a focking trade war if we just raised our tariffs to the same levels Theirs are at.

#132 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:29 PM

 
Perhaps...and maybe we get there.  We will see.
Ive not seen one person be able to answer to me what the pros vs cons are as I asked earlier.
Pros?
Jobs of course...but for one industry.  Wages too.
Cons?
What about industries that rely on steel and aluminum?  How does this affect their jobs? Wages?  Costs? and Prices?
What about consumers?  Its pretty much a given that consumer prices will go up, correct?
Effects from allies affected and tarrifs they enact in "retaliation" (see bourbon, Harleys...that have been threatened)  And those effects on our businesses here.
 
This isn't R vs. D here (actually historically the R position would be against such a thing).  Economists don't seem to agree with such a move.


Word vomit cleanup in aisle 3.

#133 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:33 PM

I think, sho, the appeal of this, and really the entire trump presidency, comes down to, people are tired of the government saying, oh, their tariffs are higher than ours. Oh well, it would hurt things to raise ours, I guess we just do nothing.

Maybe this is a bluff. Maybe its a fock you. Maybe its a stick to bring them to the free trade table.

But the Fock you, not gonna push us around, approach, real or perceived, appeals to people. Our government tends to be too passive and does nothing.

Now, its a fine line. We shall see how it plays out.

#134 Sho Nuff

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:42 PM

I think, sho, the appeal of this, and really the entire trump presidency, comes down to, people are tired of the government saying, oh, their tariffs are higher than ours. Oh well, it would hurt things to raise ours, I guess we just do nothing.

Maybe this is a bluff. Maybe its a fock you. Maybe its a stick to bring them to the free trade table.

But the Fock you, not gonna push us around, approach, real or perceived, appeals to people. Our government tends to be too passive and does nothing.

Now, its a fine line. We shall see how it plays out.


I dont believe we have been pushed around.
And I think at this point the negatives of this outweigh the positives.

#135 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:01 PM

I dont believe we have been pushed around.
And I think at this point the negatives of this outweigh the positives.


Id say letting them export to us cheaper than we export to them is being pushed around. Especially when you consider how much of that steel is being made into tanks and guns that are sent back to Europe to defend them from the Russians. If anything we should be getting a focking friend discount.

The higher tariffs obviously havent done grievous harm to the European economy. Why would they here?

#136 Sho Nuff

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:14 PM

Id say letting them export to us cheaper than we export to them is being pushed around. Especially when you consider how much of that steel is being made into tanks and guns that are sent back to Europe to defend them from the Russians. If anything we should be getting a focking friend discount.

The higher tariffs obviously havent done grievous harm to the European economy. Why would they here?

Lets not act as if the EU economy is the same as ours either. Historically...have higher tariffs hurt us or helped?
How many significant economists are in support of this?
Still seems the net is a negative for the US

#137 Sho Nuff

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:27 PM

https://www.marketwa...iffs-2018-03-06

https://www.marketwa...teel-2018-03-08

Good reads on impact...exempted Canada could be the wild card...minimizing the impact (positive and negative).

#138 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 01:21 AM

Respect to TBB, cause at least he attempts to look at things rationally and give some ideas a chance.  Something Sho could never do.


Suck it Rockford---

 

The Right protests the killing of babies, the left protests EVERYTHING else


#139 Sho Nuff

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 07:13 AM

Respect to TBB, cause at least he attempts to look at things rationally and give some ideas a chance.  Something Sho could never do.


I did look at it rationally and again have provided links as to why I (and economists) believe its a bad idea.
Have asked for pros from this supporting it vs the cons.
And have been met with silence or insults.
What rational thought did it take for those who have come in bashing me without really discussing this beyond claiming people against it are only against it because of Trump?

#140 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 07:20 AM

I did look at it rationally and again have provided links as to why I (and economists) believe its a bad idea.
Have asked for pros from this supporting it vs the cons.
And have been met with silence or insults.
What rational thought did it take for those who have come in bashing me without really discussing this beyond claiming people against it are only against it because of Trump?

You see no pros in this? You need someone to list them for you? We all know you have the cons covered. Give it a shot and see if you can come up with a couple of pros, maybe get some credibility for yourself.

#141 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 12:32 PM

I did look at it rationally and again have provided links as to why I (and economists) believe its a bad idea.
Have asked for pros from this supporting it vs the cons.
And have been met with silence or insults.
What rational thought did it take for those who have come in bashing me without really discussing this beyond claiming people against it are only against it because of Trump?

 

same economists that said we couldn't get manufacturing jobs back too


Suck it Rockford---

 

The Right protests the killing of babies, the left protests EVERYTHING else


#142 TimmySmith

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 02:32 PM

https://www.marketwa...iffs-2018-03-06

https://www.marketwa...teel-2018-03-08

Good reads on impact...exempted Canada could be the wild card...minimizing the impact (positive and negative).

Crappy reads with crapass BS data by unnamed lobbies.  They claim 200K job losses but don't support it. Nor do they say why jobs in the US were lost to higher steel prices. BLS stats in general show job creation inclining from 2001 to 2005. 

 

Their own chart shows steel prices rising from JANUARY (tariffs didn't go in until nearly April) to July, then lowering after that.  They conveniently don't show prices in 2003 when the tariff was still in effect. 

 

The same chart show Jobs declining in JANUARY (see above).  Jobs actually increased later in the year.  


“We’ve fulfilled far more promises than we’ve promised,” the president said. “I call it promises plus.”

 


#143 Sho Nuff

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 02:55 PM

 
same economists that said we couldn't get manufacturing jobs back too


Try reading for once

#144 Reality

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 03:11 PM

Respect to TBB, cause at least he attempts to look at things rationally and give some ideas a chance. 

 

:thumbsup:



#145 Sho Nuff

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 03:13 PM

[quote name="Reality" post="6178652" timestamp="1520629759"]

 
:thumbsup:[/quote
Sad that being rational just means to look at the positive of Trump.
Not one of you jackbags addressed the negatives.
Pitiful and hacks as always.

#146 Reality

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 03:16 PM

[quote name="Reality" post="6178652" timestamp="1520629759"]

 
:thumbsup:[/quote
Sad that being rational just means to look at the positive of Trump.
Not one of you jackbags addressed the negatives.
Pitiful and hacks as always.

 

Kind of a stupid response, that's not what it means at all.

 

HTH



#147 TimmySmith

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 05:35 AM

Facts show tariffs worked in 2002 amd they were higher and more widespread. These mini tariffs should do great for the US and Canada and Mexico who now can have a stronger relationship. MAGA MCGA MMGA

“We’ve fulfilled far more promises than we’ve promised,” the president said. “I call it promises plus.”

 


#148 Sho Nuff

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 08:13 AM

Facts show tariffs worked in 2002 amd they were higher and more widespread. These mini tariffs should do great for the US and Canada and Mexico who now can have a stronger relationship. MAGA MCGA MMGA


Please post something to back up your claims about 2002.
Ive posted articles and can find many more saying the opposite of you for 2002.
Why is that? All crazy liberals I bet?
Excuse me for not believing ultra biased Timmy smith over numerous articles and economists minister who say otherwise.

#149 TimmySmith

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 12:41 PM

Please post something to back up your claims about 2002.
Ive posted articles and can find many more saying the opposite of you for 2002.
Why is that? All crazy liberals I bet?
Excuse me for not believing ultra biased Timmy smith over numerous articles and economists minister who say otherwise.

I responded to your "articles". They're crap. Actually read them and see.

“We’ve fulfilled far more promises than we’ve promised,” the president said. “I call it promises plus.”

 


#150 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 12:56 PM

I responded to your "articles". They're crap. Actually read them and see.


Oh yeah, you're articles are crap!

#151 Sho Nuff

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 01:00 PM

I responded to your "articles". They're crap. Actually read them and see.


Plenty more to back up my point. You responded but brought only your words...which frankly dont have much credibility behind them in their own.
Im going to go ahead and believe the articles I posted and multiple others I have read and economists Ive heard over biased message board guy who brings zero to back up his point.

#152 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 10 March 2018 - 02:57 PM

Elon Musk is on Trump's side on this or maybe he's just been hacked by Russian Trolls


Suck it Rockford---

 

The Right protests the killing of babies, the left protests EVERYTHING else


#153 Baker Boy

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:34 AM

U.S. Steel to reopen dormant Illinois plant, credits proposed Trump tariffs
https://www.msn.com/...iffs/ar-BBJZscD

#154 TimmySmith

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:48 AM

Plenty more to back up my point. You responded but brought only your words...which frankly dont have much credibility behind them in their own.
Im going to go ahead and believe the articles I posted and multiple others I have read and economists Ive heard over biased message board guy who brings zero to back up his point.

Bot, what's the point of me tearing your articles apart if you're too dumb to know it.  :dunno:

 

Safe to say their own data proved the tariffs worked to save jobs and lower costs.  It's their data, not mine.


“We’ve fulfilled far more promises than we’ve promised,” the president said. “I call it promises plus.”

 


#155 Sho Nuff

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 01:42 PM

Bot, what's the point of me tearing your articles apart if you're too dumb to know it.  :dunno:

 

Safe to say their own data proved the tariffs worked to save jobs and lower costs.  It's their data, not mine.

 

But you have not tore anything apart...you gave your opinion...not supported by any factual information.

Just a timmy said so.

Ive brought links and can bring many more...youve brought nothing but your highly biased opinion.

Save some jobs...lose others (seems a net negative is a bad thing).

Try facts just one time in your life...bring just one link trying to support your claim.

but you keep coming up empty.



#156 iam90sbaby

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:28 PM

 

But you have not tore anything apart...you gave your opinion...not supported by any factual information.

Just a timmy said so.

Ive brought links and can bring many more...youve brought nothing but your highly biased opinion.

Save some jobs...lose others (seems a net negative is a bad thing).

Try facts just one time in your life...bring just one link trying to support your claim.

but you keep coming up empty.

 

I tore your ass up a few days ago and gave irrefutable evidence when it comes to Trump and how he effected the stock market.  You came back with nothing...



#157 Sho Nuff

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:31 PM

 
I tore your ass up a few days ago and gave irrefutable evidence when it comes to Trump and how he effected the stock market.  You came back with nothing...


A. No. You made claims whining only about volume not actuallybrefiting the points made or doing anything other than exposing your own hypocrisy.
B. That has zero to do with Timmys claims here.
Run along junior.

#158 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:36 PM

 
I tore your ass up a few days ago and gave irrefutable evidence when it comes to Trump and how he effected the stock market.  You came back with nothing...


''Tis a fact

#159 iam90sbaby

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:37 PM

A. No. You made claims whining only about volume not actuallybrefiting the points made or doing anything other than exposing your own hypocrisy.
B. That has zero to do with Timmys claims here.
Run along junior.

 

You're a focking clown. 



#160 Sho Nuff

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:46 PM

 
You're a focking clown. 

Thanks...appreciate that.