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#1 posty

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:17 AM

https://wtop.com/ale...-middle-school/

A school resource officer with the Alexandria, Virginia, Police Department accidentally fired his weapon Tuesday morning at George Washington Middle School, police said.

The officer discharged his weapon inside the school at 1005 Mount Vernon Ave. at about 9:10 a.m., police said. No one was injured, and the officer contacted his supervisor and school staff.

Classes continued as normal Tuesday.

Alexandria police said they are investigating the incident. The officer, who has worked for the department for five years, has been placed on routine administrative leave until authorities complete their investigation.


This will be a plus story for the anti "We need to arm teachers" movement...

#2 Strike

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:19 AM

This will be a plus story for the anti "We need to arm teachers" movement...

 

That's what, number 27 this year so far? 


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#3 MDC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:26 AM

This will be a plus story for the anti "We need to arm teachers" movement...


As it should be.
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#4 BLS

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 01:32 PM

As it should be.

 

Because doing nothing makes sense?


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#5 MDC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 01:39 PM

 
Because doing nothing makes sense?


Because the solution is retarded and potentially more dangerous than the problem.
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#6 BLS

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 01:39 PM

Because the solution is retarded and potentially more dangerous than the problem.

 

Ok genius, what's your solution?


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#7 MDC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 01:43 PM

 
Ok genius, what's your solution?


I could get on board with a ban on certain types of weapons. I also think gun owners should be held criminally liable if a weapon they bought / lent to someone else is used in the commission of a crime. Also mandatory immediate reporting of lost or stolen firearms and no private firearm sales without a background check or paper trail.
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#8 BLS

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:19 PM

I could get on board with a ban on certain types of weapons. I also think gun owners should be held criminally liable if a weapon they bought / lent to someone else is used in the commission of a crime. Also mandatory immediate reporting of lost or stolen firearms and no private firearm sales without a background check or paper trail.

 

How many school shootings do you think that would have prevented?

 

Because I know the answer, and you won't like it.


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#9 MDC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:47 PM

 
How many school shootings do you think that would have prevented?
 
Because I know the answer, and you won't like it.

A ban on some weapons types would have limited the # of casualties in most school shootings. Most of the other stuff is about curbing gun violence in general.

I think people overreact to school shootings. Parkland made national news because 17 people died. 30+ people are shot dead in the US every day and we hear nothing about it.

Bringing it back to the point, arming untrained people to deal with the infinitely small chance that a school may be targeted by a shooter is focking retarded. I barely trust these people to educate kids, much less defend them in a firefight.
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#10 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:15 PM

Having a teacher with a gun is the worst idea ever. Some of you are too young, but teachers used to throw erasers or hit with rulers. Half the time, they hit the wrong kid. Give them a gun and my kid is getting home schooled. :)
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#11 penultimatestraw

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:48 PM

A ban on some weapons types would have limited the # of casualties in most school shootings. Most of the other stuff is about curbing gun violence in general.
I think people overreact to school shootings. Parkland made national news because 17 people died. 30+ people are shot dead in the US every day and we hear nothing about it.
Bringing it back to the point, arming untrained people to deal with the infinitely small chance that a school may be targeted by a shooter is focking retarded. I barely trust these people to educate kids, much less defend them in a firefight.

Dont understand why this is such a hard concept. On balance, personal firearms don’t save more lives than they take, so why would increasing their numbers make anyone more safe?

#12 tanatastic

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:59 PM

Having a teacher with a gun is the worst idea ever. Some of you are too young, but teachers used to throw erasers or hit with rulers. Half the time, they hit the wrong kid. Give them a gun and my kid is getting home schooled. :)

Spot on. If teachers start carrying guns, any parent letting their kid go to that school is negligent.

Bringing it back to the point, arming untrained people to deal with the infinitely small chance that a school may be targeted by a shooter is focking retarded. I barely trust these people to educate kids, much less defend them in a firefight.

To be fair, the idea was for trained and willing volunteer teachers to be the ones carrying. But to me, any teachers with guns is begging for disaster.

#13 MDC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:09 PM

Spot on. If teachers start carrying guns, any parent letting their kid go to that school is negligent.

To be fair, the idea was for trained and willing volunteer teachers to be the ones carrying. But to me, any teachers with guns is begging for disaster.


I get that, I just dont think its reasonable to train even willing volunteer teachers to make life or death decisions on whether / how to use a firearm in the infinitely small circumstance that theyre in an active shooting situation.

That is focking retarded. :wacko:
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#14 Strike

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:11 PM

Having a teacher with a gun is the worst idea ever. Some of you are too young, but teachers used to throw erasers or hit with rulers. Half the time, they hit the wrong kid. Give them a gun and my kid is getting home schooled. :)

 

All the school districts where teachers are already carrying guns disagree with you.

 

You people act like there aren't already teachers packing.  There are.  And everything I've read, some of which I've posted links to here, suggests it does in fact make the schools safer. 


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#15 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:17 PM

 
All the school districts where teachers are already carrying guns disagree with you.
 
You people act like there aren't already teachers packing.  There are.  And everything I've read, some of which I've posted links to here, suggests it does in fact make the schools safer. 


Just provide those links and we can decide for ourselves. TIA
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#16 Strike

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:18 PM

Just provide those links and we can decide for ourselves. TIA

 

I already did.  :dunno:


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#17 tanatastic

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:18 PM

All the school districts where teachers are already carrying guns disagree with you.
 
You people act like there aren't already teachers packing.  There are.  And everything I've read, some of which I've posted links to here, suggests it does in fact make the schools safer.

Shockingly enough, I checked and this is true. Maybe there is an effective middle ground to all this after all.

#18 Strike

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:19 PM

Shockingly enough, I checked and this is true. Maybe there is an effective middle ground to all this after all.

 

The key is the requirements the schools have for the teachers. 


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#19 iam90sbaby

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:20 PM

Shockingly enough, I checked and this is true. Maybe there is an effective middle ground to all this after all.

 

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#20 jerryskids

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:25 PM

Spot on. If teachers start carrying guns, any parent letting their kid go to that school is negligent.

To be fair, the idea was for trained and willing volunteer teachers to be the ones carrying. But to me, any teachers with guns is begging for disaster.


I know 2 teachers, one retired Air Force and the other retired Navy, who I would absolutely trust to have access to a gun at school. I'm not sure it is a great idea to carry all of the time tho, too much opportunity for bad. :dunno:

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#21 Reality

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:18 PM

Pen really liked MDC's comment.

#22 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:23 PM

Pen really liked MDC's comment.


Lol

#23 penultimatestraw

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:33 PM

Shockingly enough, I checked and this is true. Maybe there is an effective middle ground to all this after all.

Since strike is being coy about posting links, can you?

#24 MDC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:50 PM

Pen really liked MDC's comment.


He didnt like it like it, though.
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#25 Strike

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:23 PM

Since strike is being coy about posting links, can you?

 

I'm not being coy.  Why should I have to search through all my old posts just because you all either didn't read it or don't remember it?  I could google it but so could you.  It's not hard to find.  IOW, you're just as capable as I am of finding the data as I am at this point.  The only difference is I already know exactly what it said.  If you truly want to correct your ignorance you can do the work yourself. 


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#26 MDC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:27 PM

 
I'm not being coy.  Why should I have to search through all my old posts just because you all either didn't read it or don't remember it?  I could google it but so could you.  It's not hard to find.  IOW, you're just as capable as I am of finding the data as I am at this point.  The only difference is I already know exactly what it said.  If you truly want to correct your ignorance you can do the work yourself. 


Id Google it. Whats the source or premise of the article at least?
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#27 tanatastic

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:32 PM

Since strike is being coy about posting links, can you?

https://www.google.c...m/amp/418965002

#28 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:35 PM

https://www.google.c...m/amp/418965002


If that is it (and I read that before) it is not the smoking gun that Strike thinks it is (no pun intended). Of course I wasn't going to respond to him beyond what I did given that I knew he would make a pompous response similar to what he responded to pen. :lol:
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#29 tanatastic

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:38 PM

If that is it (and I read that before) it is not the smoking gun that Strike thinks it is (no pun intended). Of course I wasn't going to respond to him beyond what I did given that I knew he would make a pompous response similar to what he responded to pen. :lol:

Its not a smoking gun, I was just fact checking him for saying there are already some places where guns are in schools. Thats all I was trying to verify.

#30 MDC

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:42 PM

Its not a smoking gun, I was just fact checking him for saying there are already some places where guns are in schools. Thats all I was trying to verify.


He also said there was evidence that guns in schools make them safer.
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#31 penultimatestraw

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:43 PM

I'm not being coy.  Why should I have to search through all my old posts just because you all either didn't read it or don't remember it?  I could google it but so could you.  It's not hard to find.  IOW, you're just as capable as I am of finding the data as I am at this point.  The only difference is I already know exactly what it said.  If you truly want to correct your ignorance you can do the work yourself.

Our standards for evidence are different. I suspect you linked a story or two in which an armed teacher is credited in thwarting a gunman. Meanwhile, there are likely other stories where armed teachers shot themselves or their students. What we really should be asking is, what are the risks versus benefits of firearms in a classroom setting? Ideally, there should be a comparison before and after armed teachers were implemented in the same school. To my knowledge, no such study exists.

#32 penultimatestraw

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:45 PM

https://www.google.c...m/amp/418965002

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I know there are places where teachers carry firearms. I’d like to see data which suggest arming them makes students safer.

#33 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:48 PM

Its not a smoking gun, I was just fact checking him for saying there are already some places where guns are in schools. Thats all I was trying to verify.


I knew that already. To assume that it is "already working" is not complete info. Heck, there were armed guards at multiple shootings and that did squat.

To assume that you can arm librarians and English teachers as a deterrent is not viable. My guess (see how I preface that) is that shooters will welcome the opportunity to get into such a gun fight.

The best one is the lock down rooms that prevent the bad guy from getting in. Let's see what happens when there is a fire and a bunch of kids are stuck in place.

In the last one, if the FBI just did their job, we may have not had this scenario at all.
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#34 SUXBNME

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:51 PM

He didnt like it like it, though.

:lol:  :D



#35 Strike

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:51 PM

If that is it (and I read that before) it is not the smoking gun that Strike thinks it is (no pun intended). Of course I wasn't going to respond to him beyond what I did given that I knew he would make a pompous response similar to what he responded to pen. :lol:

 

Holy fock.  That is NOT any of the articles I posted, and I posted multiple.  Nothing wrong with that one but it's very general. 


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#36 tanatastic

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:57 PM

Sorry, I wasnt clear. I know there are places where teachers carry firearms. Id like to see data which suggest arming them makes students safer.

Ah I see. I have no link on that angle but it sounds dubious at best. People attack schools because thats where the classmates they hate go. They have snapped and are hell bent on killing. The kids who bully them, teachers that punish them are the targets. They arent strategically scouted locations chosen for their vulnerability. Its just where they focus their rage and lunacy.

#37 Strike

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:43 PM

So, now that we've acknowledged that teacher's packing is not uncommon, who can point to a school that has had a shooting incident where a teacher was packing or where a teacher who was packing shot up a school? 


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#38 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:49 PM

This teachers with guns thing is just so fockin stupid it's not worth it. If you think it's a good idea you're equivalent to the guy who thinks smacking the TV will fix it.

#39 Strike

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:51 PM

This teachers with guns thing is just so fockin stupid it's not worth it. If you think it's a good idea you're equivalent to the guy who thinks smacking the TV will fix it.

 

It's been around a long time.  Post some evidence it's a bad thing.  Or just b*tch like you always do without supporting your position.


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#40 tanatastic

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:58 PM

So, now that we've acknowledged that teacher's packing is not uncommon, who can point to a school that has had a shooting incident where a teacher was packing or where a teacher who was packing shot up a school? 

Thats not fair. School shootings arent common enough to point to the ones that havent been targeted and draw correlations. Thats extreme corner case arguing.

Ill agree that if there have been no incidents where an armed teacher had an accident that it lends merit to the concept as a whole. As I said before, my personal research has led me to think a common ground here is somewhat plausible on some scale.