The Boldin dilemma in Arizona

[jgcrawfish 232]

As most people are aware, Boldin wasn't happy before the season began over the fact that his #'s have been essentially equal to Fitz, he's been there longer, and thanks to his Fitz's new contract, he makes about 1/3 as much as Fitz. Dude now has had his face shattered, come back from it WAY before it was time for him to, and has put up much better #'s in the games he was in than Fitz has.

 

It's pretty much a given the Cards cannot afford to pay Boldin and Fitz equal salaries, so now I'd like to hear what some of you armchair GM's think need to be done. Keep in mind that Boldin is still under contract now. Also remember that during his absence from the injury Steve Breaston put up similar numbers to Boldin. There are some stud WR needy teams out there like Philly, Seattle, San Fran, etc...what do you do with Boldin???

[jgcrawfish 232]

bump for poll added...discussion encouraged.

[eaglesalltheway 0]

I think Arizona's between a rock and a hard place. I would love for them to decide to trade him for a #1 and #2 to the Eagles, but realistically, I believe he's signed through 2010, and they are going to have to hold him to his contract. I don't think they can afford to pay him. Warner's gonna demand more money next year and I think he is equally important to the success of that team.

[joefry 0]

Good problem to have...trade him for picks, renegotiate deal.

 

They'll get two first day choices and perhaps a player. The Raiders might bite on that one.

[Mooseknuckles FF 0]

Can't realistically give him a giant contract in Fitz neighborhood without trading him. Already hearing they may be looking to resign Warner, and with the year he is having, he won't be a cheap commodity. Breaston seems perfectly capable, and appears to be plenty of receivers you could mold into a 3rd receiver in the draft. I think there will be clubs out there willing to trade for him and negotiate a deal from there. Unfortunately Millen is gone or I would think the Lions may trade a couple picks for another WR.

[Ray_T 590]

Dude, the guy was eating from a feeding tube, and came on to have a monster game the same week.

 

This is clearly a player you'd want to go to war with and he is clearly the WR you want to keep. The only question is whether Boldin has decided he will be happy in Arizona. If he has changed his mind and wants to stay, you sign him to numbers similar to what Fitz is making, and trade Fitz for players or picks, or both.

 

If he still wont be happy in Az, you may want to look at unloading him for whatever you can get, and hope Fitz can bounce back & have a good year.

[Cuse9 128]

Here's a good question:

 

If Boldin goes to Miami next year and Breaston becomes the starter in Arizona.....who would you pick first in a fantasy draft. Breaston will be in a much better fantasy offense, but Boldin is...well....Boldin?!

[jgcrawfish 232]

Dude, the guy was eating from a feeding tube, and came on to have a monster game the same week.

 

This is clearly a player you'd want to go to war with and he is clearly the WR you want to keep. The only question is whether Boldin has decided he will be happy in Arizona. If he has changed his mind and wants to stay, you sign him to numbers similar to what Fitz is making, and trade Fitz for players or picks, or both.

 

If he still wont be happy in Az, you may want to look at unloading him for whatever you can get, and hope Fitz can bounce back & have a good year.

 

Are you freakin serious??? Fitz is having MONSTER year, he's just not getting the TD love Boldin is. Hell, in most standard scoring leagues those two guys are like #1 and #3. Bounce back???

[Ray_T 590]

Are you freakin serious??? Fitz is having MONSTER year, he's just not getting the TD love Boldin is. Hell, in most standard scoring leagues those two guys are like #1 and #3. Bounce back???

I am not denying that Fitz is good. I'm suggesting that he doesnt possess the 'intangibles' that Boldin has displayed this year.

 

There are some players who can not play while hurt or injured.

 

There are some that can, but with reduced effectiveness.

 

There are some who can be just as effective while hurt.

 

Boldin fits into the third category mentioned. I'm not sure where Fitz fits into this, but I'll tell you one thing....

 

I'd take an above average player that fits into the third category over a stud player in one of the first 2 categories anyday. My reasoning: If you are on the same team as a guy like Boldin, how can you justify giving anything less than 100% when he is hurt and performing like a star.

 

so my arguement would be that a guy who fits into that last category also makes his teammates play better when he comes up with a huge effort like he did.

 

I'll also be honest. I was never a fan of Boldin until this year. Its hard not to like a guy who goes in for multiple dental surgeries, eats from a feeding tube and then goes out and has a monster game the same week.

 

If I'm a coach, I'd want this guy on my side when going to war.

[wiffleball 4,640]

Indy might have room if Harrison retires.

 

What the Cards might be thinking is the same thing Davis and Jones are already thinking - We're not going to have a salary cap for much longer and this all becomes a moot point.

[Ray_T 590]

Indy might have room if Harrison retires.

 

What the Cards might be thinking is the same thing Davis and Jones are already thinking - We're not going to have a salary cap for much longer and this all becomes a moot point.

 

The NFL will never go away from a salary cap.

 

I just cant see it happening.

 

Even if, hypothetically they did, the same issues still apply.

 

Boldin has to want to play there, and if he doesnt, you cant force him to sign a contract.

 

So you're in the same boat either way. My guess is that if Boldin wants to play there, Arizona will find a way to make it happen. How they do it, I couldnt say..... but they'll find a way to get it done.

[wiffleball 4,640]

The NFL will never go away from a salary cap.

 

I just cant see it happening.

 

Even if, hypothetically they did, the same issues still apply.

 

Boldin has to want to play there, and if he doesnt, you cant force him to sign a contract.

 

So you're in the same boat either way. My guess is that if Boldin wants to play there, Arizona will find a way to make it happen. How they do it, I couldnt say..... but they'll find a way to get it done.

 

Read the OP. The issue is the cap. The premise is AZ can't afford to pay both guys the same money. Boldin was fine there - until the Fitz contract.

 

The prospect of the NFL playing the 2010 season without a salary cap, triggered by the owners' decision to opt out of its collective bargaining agreement two years early, might provide cash-flush owners with the opportunity to stock teams as never before.

 

Some teams are already operating in anticipation of an uncapped year. Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said he has thought for months about 2010 and how decisions that include signing players to long-term contracts weigh against the potential upheaval of the system.

 

Jones made two moves Tuesday that surely reflected his planning. He signed cornerback Terence Newman (six years, $50 million) and running back Marion Barber III (seven years, $45 million) to deals that will tie them to the team through 2014. By signing them before a 3 p.m. deadline Tuesday, Dallas avoided accounting rules that go into effect with the revised collective bargaining agreement.

[Sgt_Russia 0]

If AZ can't renegotiate a deal to keep Boldin happy and in AZ, then they need to move him, not Fitz, for some picks.

 

If Boldin doesn't miss a game for the rest of the year, he will have missed 14 games in 6 seasons, having only played all 16 games twice. That's not a good track record for a relatively low-impact position (compared to other NFL positions).

 

If you have to move him, there's no better time to do so than after his career year.

 

Fitz is 3 years younger, and already signed his 'new' long-term deal.

 

And then there's the dreaded 'Peerless Price Syndrome', which I don't think either of these two fall victim to, as they are both infinitely more talented than Price ever was. But you just don' know until one of em is gone. Ideally, you'd have to like to keep them both in AZ, but I'm not sure that's even gonna be possible. So, if I have to choose one, I choose Fitz.

[jocstrap 8]

I like the above posters comparison to Peerless Price w/ Moulds opposite. Would Boldin be close to his 2008 numbers if there was no real threat on the other side?

 

This salary cap is the biggest issue. We would need a spread sheet in front of us to see which NFL teams have room and picks to acquire a Boldin. Didn't Javon Walker rape the Raiders especially for the numbers he's put up this year? Which team is willing to risk say 1st and 3rd round picks, plus a chunk of change for a 3/4 year contract?

 

Which team could use a reciever like Boldin? Most of them I suppose.

 

Who is going to pay the big bucks is the question? That's where we need to see which organization has the bankroll to back up the trade.

 

I'm not sold that Boldin could produce the same #'s elsewhere. It's easy living with Fitz sitting opposite. Which GM is willing to take the chance?

 

ATLANTA

DENVER

MINNY

SEATTLE

 

Save this discussion for offseason

[jgcrawfish 232]

I like the above posters comparison to Peerless Price w/ Moulds opposite. Would Boldin be close to his 2008 numbers if there was no real threat on the other side?

 

This salary cap is the biggest issue. We would need a spread sheet in front of us to see which NFL teams have room and picks to acquire a Boldin. Didn't Javon Walker rape the Raiders especially for the numbers he's put up this year? Which team is willing to risk say 1st and 3rd round picks, plus a chunk of change for a 3/4 year contract?

 

Which team could use a reciever like Boldin? Most of them I suppose.

 

Who is going to pay the big bucks is the question? That's where we need to see which organization has the bankroll to back up the trade.

 

I'm not sold that Boldin could produce the same #'s elsewhere. It's easy living with Fitz sitting opposite. Which GM is willing to take the chance?

 

ATLANTA

DENVER

MINNY

SEATTLE

 

Save this discussion for offseason

 

I've been on record here for saying I think Fitz is the better WR, however, there is no downplaying how good Boldin is. It's worthwhile to remember he was pretty darned good before Fitz ever got there, so although I like the comparison to Peerless, I don't think it's accurate. I believe Boldin could go just about anywhere else and be what he is today. Were I the Eagles, Bears, San Fran, Miami, Seattle, Baltimore, the Raiders and a few other teams I'd be making a serious pitch for the guy. But is market value is sky-freakin-high right now, and $$$ will definitely be an issue.

[dreadlocks34 0]

I am still of the opinion that he isn't the best receiver on his own team.

[TheBlade 3]

I've been on record here for saying I think Fitz is the better WR, however, there is no downplaying how good Boldin is. It's worthwhile to remember he was pretty darned good before Fitz ever got there, so although I like the comparison to Peerless, I don't think it's accurate. I believe Boldin could go just about anywhere else and be what he is today. Were I the Eagles, Bears, San Fran, Miami, Seattle, Baltimore, the Raiders and a few other teams I'd be making a serious pitch for the guy. But is market value is sky-freakin-high right now, and $$$ will definitely be an issue.

I also think Fitz is the better WR when comparing the total package and I agree that you can't downplay how good Boldin is, as he is a better deep threat and a much better YAC WR than Fitz. Plus, he's a beast in the redzone. This last thing about the redzone is the one area where I truly think that Boldin is hurting Fitz from a fantasy perspective. Boldin gets a lot of redzone targets, which is one of Fitz's strongest areas. If Boldin isn't there next year, I could see Fitz putting up obscene numbers from an FF perspective because he won't have another big target vulturing RZ looks. Breaston has proven to be more than capable of playing the deep threat while Fitz takes on the possession role, and this doesn't really change Fitz's game one iota from what it is now. But, without Boldin around, I think his TD production goes way up.

 

And for me the ultimate deciding factor in who to pick first is what the Commie Supervisor already stated above, Boldin always seems to get hurt. When they're both in the game, Boldin usually outproduces Fitz. But, year in and year out, Fitz ends up with bigger numbers for the season because Boldin always misses time and Fitz tends not to. I realize that it's the NFL and anything can happen on any given Sunday, and that you can't predict injuries. I get all that, but this year is a perfect example. The injury totally wasn't Boldin's fault, it was a nasty (and probably cheap) hit, and he did a helluva job in coming back as quickly as he did, but he still missed time. Fitz misses very little. He missed 1 game last year and 3 the year before that. And last year's stats were identical to his 2005 year where he played all 16 games, so you could argue that from a fantasy standpoint you really didn't miss anything.

 

As for Boldin being traded, it really depends on where he goes as to what value he would have. I think he'd do well in Miami or Philly, and possibly Seattle with a healthy Hasselbeck. The rest I think would hurt his value quite a bit. Chicago and Baltimore are too run dominate to have a consistent stud-type WR, and San Fran and Oakland are just a total mess. I don't think Boldin is a product of the offensive system in Arizona, but I do think he'd be severely limited if he went to a system that didn't fit his skills.

[Dallas_Empire 0]

Best WR in the game? When did T.O. play for the Cardinals?

[Vikings4ever 496]

I like the above posters comparison to Peerless Price w/ Moulds opposite. Would Boldin be close to his 2008 numbers if there was no real threat on the other side?

Considering the guy caught 100 balls, 1300+ receiving yards, and 8 TDs his rookie season, with a supporting cast of Jeff Blake, Marcell Shipp, Freddie Jones, and Bryant Johnson, I'd say he's fairly safe from the Peerless Price syndrome.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I also think Fitz is the better WR when comparing the total package and I agree that you can't downplay how good Boldin is, as he is a better deep threat and a much better YAC WR than Fitz. Plus, he's a beast in the redzone. This last thing about the redzone is the one area where I truly think that Boldin is hurting Fitz from a fantasy perspective. Boldin gets a lot of redzone targets, which is one of Fitz's strongest areas. If Boldin isn't there next year, I could see Fitz putting up obscene numbers from an FF perspective because he won't have another big target vulturing RZ looks. Breaston has proven to be more than capable of playing the deep threat while Fitz takes on the possession role, and this doesn't really change Fitz's game one iota from what it is now. But, without Boldin around, I think his TD production goes way up.

 

And for me the ultimate deciding factor in who to pick first is what the Commie Supervisor already stated above, Boldin always seems to get hurt. When they're both in the game, Boldin usually outproduces Fitz. But, year in and year out, Fitz ends up with bigger numbers for the season because Boldin always misses time and Fitz tends not to. I realize that it's the NFL and anything can happen on any given Sunday, and that you can't predict injuries. I get all that, but this year is a perfect example. The injury totally wasn't Boldin's fault, it was a nasty (and probably cheap) hit, and he did a helluva job in coming back as quickly as he did, but he still missed time. Fitz misses very little. He missed 1 game last year and 3 the year before that. And last year's stats were identical to his 2005 year where he played all 16 games, so you could argue that from a fantasy standpoint you really didn't miss anything.

 

As for Boldin being traded, it really depends on where he goes as to what value he would have. I think he'd do well in Miami or Philly, and possibly Seattle with a healthy Hasselbeck. The rest I think would hurt his value quite a bit. Chicago and Baltimore are too run dominate to have a consistent stud-type WR, and San Fran and Oakland are just a total mess. I don't think Boldin is a product of the offensive system in Arizona, but I do think he'd be severely limited if he went to a system that didn't fit his skills.

 

This was a nice write up, but I differ on a couple of of things. Maybe I misunderstood the way it was written, but Boldin isn't their deep threat, that's Fitz. He's faster bigger and better jumper than Boldin. Breaston has come and filled that role a bit better now with is deep speed, but what makes Boldin so effective is that he can take a 7 yrd route and turn it into 20 very quickly because he's so hard to drag down. I've also included the other post that points out the same thing I did, mainly, that Boldin was very effective before Fitz ever came with a much worse team around him than he has now. I consider Fitz one of the top 5 in terms of physical talent, and I honestly feel that Boldin is just slightly behind in that respect. The only reason that Boldin is doing so much better this year is because Kurt's eyes are pretty much fixed on him in the redzone. I firmly believe Boldin puts up similar #'s where ever he were to end up (if he was traded) so long as he gets similar targets.

 

Best WR in the game? When did T.O. play for the Cardinals?

 

You're talking about this guy:

Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost

40 505 12.6 72T 6 5 25 5.0 8 0 1 1

 

You mean the guy who is currently ranked 21st in FF WR scoring or the guy who is ranked 35th in WR yardage? Hell, he's even behind 4 TE's in that category. You're as sad as he is.

 

Considering the guy caught 100 balls, 1300+ receiving yards, and 8 TDs his rookie season, with a supporting cast of Jeff Blake, Marcell Shipp, Freddie Jones, and Bryant Johnson, I'd say he's fairly safe from the Peerless Price syndrome.

 

Bingo.

[sameo98 0]

Best WR in the game? When did T.O. play for the Cardinals?

 

Oh please! We don't need T.O.'s ego to be any bigger than it already is...

 

 

[jgcrawfish 232]

Oh please! We don't need T.O.'s ego to be any bigger than it already is...

 

Please don't feed the animals...

[TheBlade 3]

This was a nice write up, but I differ on a couple of of things. Maybe I misunderstood the way it was written, but Boldin isn't their deep threat, that's Fitz. He's faster bigger and better jumper than Boldin. Breaston has come and filled that role a bit better now with is deep speed, but what makes Boldin so effective is that he can take a 7 yrd route and turn it into 20 very quickly because he's so hard to drag down. I've also included the other post that points out the same thing I did, mainly, that Boldin was very effective before Fitz ever came with a much worse team around him than he has now. I consider Fitz one of the top 5 in terms of physical talent, and I honestly feel that Boldin is just slightly behind in that respect. The only reason that Boldin is doing so much better this year is because Kurt's eyes are pretty much fixed on him in the redzone. I firmly believe Boldin puts up similar #'s where ever he were to end up (if he was traded) so long as he gets similar targets.

I stand corrected on the use of Boldin, then. I live on the East Coast and don't get many 'Zona games on TV. I thought of Fitz as their possession guy. I was also under the impression Boldin was also kind of a possession guy for them, but he usually ended up with the deep fly routes. I just usually see Boldin with a lot of the longer TDs versus the scores that Fitz gets.

 

I do think that Fitz becomes an absolute FF monster next year if they move Boldin someplace else and Breaston takes over the homerun threat. With Fitz being the "possession" guy that still can take any ball to the house, plus being the primary RZ target, you have an FF point-producing machine.

 

I guess I've just never seen Fitz as a deep route type of guy, unless it's a 20 yd out. Thanks for correcting my erroneous thinking.

 

[Dallas_Empire 0]

Oh please! We don't need T.O.'s ego to be any bigger than it already is...

 

 

T.O. is the best. Sorry you can't see that fact.

[IndyTom 0]

Am I the only one that noticed that the Cards won't want to waste their money paying both of these guys huge money with Leinart behind center next year?

 

Keep in mind Warner will be a free agent too. If the Cards want him back, they definitely won't have the $$ to pay both Boldin and Warner.

 

Leinart won't bring the stats out of Fitz and Boldin like Warner would.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Am I the only one that noticed that the Cards won't want to waste their money paying both of these guys huge money with Leinart behind center next year?

 

Keep in mind Warner will be a free agent too. If the Cards want him back, they definitely won't have the $$ to pay both Boldin and Warner.

 

Leinart won't bring the stats out of Fitz and Boldin like Warner would.

 

Good point. You've GOT to pay Warner, not only to keep winning you games but to groom Leinart (if possible).

 

Any chance Fitz restructures his deal to keep the three of them together for another season?

[ackattack 0]

Good problem to have...trade him for picks, renegotiate deal.

 

They'll get two first day choices and perhaps a player. The Raiders might bite on that one.

 

this boldin not javon walker...he would veto any trade to the hapless raiders

[ackattack 0]

T.O. is the best. Sorry you can't see that fact.

 

LMAO..you got to be kidding me...what the best drama queen, the best whiner, the best cry baby....hes got to be the best guy who you hate to draft because hes going to cost you your league...no you dont see the facts which are the stats ...look em up cowboy

[jerryskids 5,199]

Sadly, I think the Cards made their decision when they showed Fitz the money. I say "sadly" because, as a Cards fan, I remember their one playoff run in 98, then the next year they let 3 key players go, including Larry Centers who was Boldin (the heart and soul of the team) before Boldin was Boldin. They crashed hard the next year and haven't seen the playoffs since. I think Eric Hill was another one they lost that year.

 

As to whether he wants to be here, he has backed off somewhat from his earlier comments, so I think he would do it. I just don't see it happening. They need to trade him in the offseason; as others have said, a couple of day 1 picks and maybe a player.

 

Warner seems happy here, his family is happy here, and he doesn't seem like a guy who will hold the Cards hostage. He's probably more concerned with the years of the upcoming contract than the amount.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Sadly, I think the Cards made their decision when they showed Fitz the money. I say "sadly" because, as a Cards fan, I remember their one playoff run in 98, then the next year they let 3 key players go, including Larry Centers who was Boldin (the heart and soul of the team) before Boldin was Boldin. They crashed hard the next year and haven't seen the playoffs since. I think Eric Hill was another one they lost that year.

 

As to whether he wants to be here, he has backed off somewhat from his earlier comments, so I think he would do it. I just don't see it happening. They need to trade him in the offseason; as others have said, a couple of day 1 picks and maybe a player.

 

Warner seems happy here, his family is happy here, and he doesn't seem like a guy who will hold the Cards hostage. He's probably more concerned with the years of the upcoming contract than the amount.

 

In my mind, there's no way they can afford to bring back Warner at what he's worth (hell, the guy is on MVP pace again) AND pay Boldin equal to Fitz AND keep Fitz. Something has to give here because they clearly don't trust Leinhart to run the show and I can't say I blame them. I honestly think Boldin will be the one that has to go next year because the franchise has clearly shown a preference for Fitz with his contract. In my mind, Boldin is worth easily a 1st round pick and maybe a 3rd round as well. I think that will be the course of action for the Cards, but just a hunch.