Rodgers vs.Pats

[roroco 75]

Fat and overrated...awesome analysis there.

 

It is more ironic considering their lead back this week was Blount.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Game of the year potential. Neither the pats D nor the packers O should be underestimated. Could go either way, with a pats win the most likely outcome considering how dominant they have been.

[RedzoneMonster 102]

As a Rodgers owner at the very least I know there's little chance he'll get pulled in the fourth quarter.

[Mike Nice 40]

Rodgers better than Brady right now is fact. Try taking your pats love out of it.

They are two completely different qbs imo. Rodgers is young, has the arm, and the numbers, but can he win those pressure games.

 

Brady turns washed up players and no names into pro-bowlers. He has never had the talent other elite qbs have had and still manages to have the highest win % and put up a top 5 offense. Yes i am a Pats homer, but this guy always finds a way to win with what he has. It will be a sad day when he is gone in new England.

 

I'd take Brady any day of the week over any other qb in the nfl right now.

 

 

P.s Fantasy football wise, yes rodgers is the better qb

[roroco 75]

They are two completely different qbs imo. Rodgers is young, has the arm, and the numbers, but can he win those pressure games.

 

 

Rodgers is ridiculous in big games. Isn't he averaging 3 TDs in playoff games for his career. I don't think he has a dud game yet on the big stage. The Packers have lost playoff games on their defense, not Rodgers.

[roroco 75]

They are two completely different qbs imo. Rodgers is young, has the arm, and the numbers, but can he win those pressure games.

 

 

Rodgers is ridiculous in big games. Isn't he averaging 3 TDs in playoff games for his career and his post season QB Rating is insane. I don't think he has a dud game yet on the big stage.

 

The Packers have lost playoff games on their defense, not Rodgers.

[TennisMenace 156]

Trade Rodgers now? Are you crazy? That playoff schedule looks juicy. SMH

[roroco 75]

I'm not saying this is a troll thread, but it is very troll-ish.

[Squintz82 45]

The Packers have lost playoff games on their defense, not Rodgers.

Except for the kick fumble that lost the NFC title game.

 

http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20100110&Category=PKR01&ArtNo=100110040&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Green-Bay-Packers-lose-Arizona-Cardinals-51-45-NFC-playoff-game

[TD Ryan2 314]

No longer interested in the NFL anymore other than fantasy football.

 

Rodgers is better than Brady right now is fact.

Trade Brady for Rodgers in fantasy this season? yes.

Trade Brady for Rodgers in real this season? no

 

if you don't pay attention to real football, I can understand how this would perplex you.

 

[TD Ryan2 314]

Expect GB to force Brady and NE to beat them with the deep ball.

When dissecting the NE offense, the deep ball is one thing that Brady doesn't hit on consistently and his WRs aren't especially suited for - NE will kill you with short/intermediate stuff, they can run it, they can play spread or jumbo, they can hurry-up or slow down - they are versatile and above average at everything - except the deep ball.

 

IMO, the deep ball is like "long drive" in golf - sexy and nice to have and gets everyone talking - but isn't really that important. Accuracy, decision making, quick release, pocket presence, leadership are all things more important than "deep ball" in today's NFL.

 

But I suspect this is what GB D will challenge Brady with

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

 

Trade Brady for Rodgers in fantasy this season? yes.

Trade Brady for Rodgers in real this season? no

 

if you don't pay attention to real football, I can understand how this would perplex you.

 

 

 

Explain it to me then. Explain to me what Brady has that Rodgers doesn't right now.

 

There is no intangible Brady has which makes him better than Rodgers now. And Rodgers is more mobile with a better arm.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Except for the kick fumble that lost the NFC title game.

 

http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20100110&Category=PKR01&ArtNo=100110040&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Green-Bay-Packers-lose-Arizona-Cardinals-51-45-NFC-playoff-game

 

You mean the one with the missed facemask?

Oh...and, you might want to look at what Rodgers put up that game and what the defense gave up that game if you want to put that all on him. HTH

[Sho Nuff 719]

Expect GB to force Brady and NE to beat them with the deep ball.

When dissecting the NE offense, the deep ball is one thing that Brady doesn't hit on consistently and his WRs aren't especially suited for - NE will kill you with short/intermediate stuff, they can run it, they can play spread or jumbo, they can hurry-up or slow down - they are versatile and above average at everything - except the deep ball.

 

IMO, the deep ball is like "long drive" in golf - sexy and nice to have and gets everyone talking - but isn't really that important. Accuracy, decision making, quick release, pocket presence, leadership are all things more important than "deep ball" in today's NFL.

 

But I suspect this is what GB D will challenge Brady with

 

Id expect GB to try to take away the middle and make Brady beat them deep to the outside (as you said).

Problem is...GB has sucked for a while in covering things over the middle.

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

Explain it to me then.

 

it's team sports Jarvis - when you get a guy who does everything and more with your team, coaches, players, locker room, city, location, and on-field play - you don't upset the apple cart.

How often have you seen a team in any sport make a big free agent splash only to have that big FA fall flat on his face? It's not b/c the athlete suddenly runs slower or can't jump as high or throw as far.

 

We could have had this same conversation a few years ago with Brees - people would have said Brees is better than Brady - and for that season, with that team/coaches, he may have been and statistically he absolutely was - so the point is that yes, Aaron Rodgers is having the best season of any QB in the NFL right now, but it's a snapshot, and I'm not sure trading the QB from your 9-2 team will improve anything even if the new guy runs faster and throws further and is putting up monster stats.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

it's team sports Jarvis - when you get a guy who does everything and more with your team, coaches, players, locker room, city, location, and on-field play - you don't upset the apple cart.

How often have you seen a team in any sport make a big free agent splash only to have that big FA fall flat on his face? It's not b/c the athlete suddenly runs slower or can't jump as high or throw as far.

 

We could have had this same conversation a few years ago with Brees - people would have said Brees is better than Brady - and for that season, with that team/coaches, he may have been and statistically he absolutely was - so the point is that yes, Aaron Rodgers is having the best season of any QB in the NFL right now, but it's a snapshot, and I'm not sure trading the QB from your 9-2 team will improve anything even if the new guy runs faster and throws further and is putting up monster stats.

 

I thought I asked to take everything else out of it. I'm not talking about if these guys physically left their teams to go to eachothers, I'm saying take Brady away right now as if he'd never existed and put Rodgers in the roll of QB for the Patriots......with the same coaching staff/team in place.

 

I think NE would be better.

[TD Ryan2 314]

I think NE would be better.

and you may be right - Rodgers is playing the position better than anyone in the league right now

but when making hypotheticals about swapping players, you can't "take everything else" out of it - is Rodgers playing so well b/c of the playbook he has? Because of the rapport with his WRs? Does Rodgers play as well throwing to Gronk and Edelman? It's impossible to know. The players and system around Rodgers are part of his success.

 

What I would agree to is that if you put Belichick in GB with Rodgers and McCarthy in NE with Brady, Rodgers/Belichick/GB team kills Brady/McCarthy/NE team... so from that angle, I understand what you're saying but I'm not trading Brady for Rodgers straight up because the "everything else" can't be taken out of it.

[Squintz82 45]

 

You mean the one with the missed facemask?

Oh...and, you might want to look at what Rodgers put up that game and what the defense gave up that game if you want to put that all on him. HTH

 

You said "The Packers have lost playoff games on their defense, not Rodgers." I didn't say he played poorly (even though Kurt Warner outplayed him in that game). I simply pointed out that Rodgers lost that game on the fumble in OT. His defense wasn't on the field.

 

Correction, it wasn't the NFC title game.

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

You said "The Packers have lost playoff games on their defense, not Rodgers." I didn't say he played poorly (even though Kurt Warner outplayed him in that game). I simply pointed out that Rodgers lost that game on the fumble in OT. His defense wasn't on the field.

 

Correction, it wasn't the NFC title game.

 

Actually...someone else said that.

Rodgers lost the game on the fumble huh?

BTW...why did it get to overtime with what the offense did? Psst...its because the defense let Warner put up ridiculous numbers.

HTH

That game was not won or lost on one play.

and it wasn't the title game...wild card round.

Packers won the SB the next year.

[parrot 789]

Expect GB to force Brady and NE to beat them with the deep ball.

When dissecting the NE offense, the deep ball is one thing that Brady doesn't hit on consistently and his WRs aren't especially suited for - NE will kill you with short/intermediate stuff, they can run it, they can play spread or jumbo, they can hurry-up or slow down - they are versatile and above average at everything - except the deep ball.

 

IMO, the deep ball is like "long drive" in golf - sexy and nice to have and gets everyone talking - but isn't really that important. Accuracy, decision making, quick release, pocket presence, leadership are all things more important than "deep ball" in today's NFL.

 

But I suspect this is what GB D will challenge Brady with

 

I'm not sure GB's 30 ranked rush defense has the horses to force the Pats to play that game, unless they really commit their back-end to run support, which then leaves them in danger of Gronk and Wright running wild. I won't be surprised to see the a liberal helping of the 6th lineman approach from the Pats again against this run defense.

[FeelingMN 273]

The players and system around Rodgers are part of his success.

 

For real though.....Gronk is the most important player on the Pats, and arguably the most important nonQB in the league. We've seen what Brady is without a healthy Gronk, and the words end and over seem to pop up.

 

These comparisons are silly anyway. It's all based on preference. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Manning....take your pick. They're all great.

 

As for the OP.....Luck didn't exactly light it up against JAX this past weekend, so I wouldn't put too much solely on matchups. You're gonna be alright with either. Not dumb if you do make a move, not dumb if you don't.

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

I'm not sure GB's 30 ranked rush defense has the horses to force the Pats to play that game, unless they really commit their back-end to run support, which then leaves them in danger of Gronk and Wright running wild. I won't be surprised to see the a liberal helping of the 6th lineman approach from the Pats again against this run defense.

 

If Perry is healthy...throw that ranking out the window.

Look what they have done the last 3 weeks against Forte, McCoy, and Minnesota when moving Clay Matthews inside.

With Perry out, they didn't play Clay in the middle as much this past game though.

It has greatly changed how they have fared on run defense.

[parrot 789]

 

For real though.....Gronk is the most important player on the Pats, and arguably the most important nonQB in the league. We've seen what Brady is without a healthy Gronk, and the words end and over seem to pop up.

 

 

 

Yeah, and before Gronk it was Welker, because everyone knew that Brady couldn't survive without Welker, except that he hasn't missed a beat without Welker. The only time I've seen end and over pop up with Brady was from reactionary dipsh!ts who were apparently blind to the fact that his offensive line was different every game and were getting their lunch eaten week in and week out.

[Squintz82 45]

 

Actually...someone else said that.

Rodgers lost the game on the fumble huh?

BTW...why did it get to overtime with what the offense did? Psst...its because the defense let Warner put up ridiculous numbers.

HTH

That game was not won or lost on one play.

and it wasn't the title game...wild card round.

Packers won the SB the next year.

 

Yep, should've held onto the ball after getting lucky making it to overtime. Rackers missed an easy 34 yard chip shot for the win.

 

Both defenses were awful in that game, so that's a wash. Rodgers made a few big mistakes that cost them the game. Also missed Jennings WIDE OPEN for an easy TD on the play before the fumble. I stand by the fact that Rodgers was very good in that game, but not great.

 

Already corrected myself on the round, and the following year is completely irrelevant to my point.

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

Yep, should've held onto the ball after getting lucky making it to overtime. Rackers missed an easy 34 yard chip shot for the win.

 

Both defenses were awful in that game, so that's a wash. Rodgers made a few big mistakes that cost them the game. Also missed Jennings WIDE OPEN for an easy TD on the play before the fumble. I stand by the fact that Rodgers was very good in that game, but not great.

 

Already corrected myself on the round, and the following year is completely irrelevant to my point.

 

Sure...they were lucky making it to OT after a nice come back with the D sucking.

And Rodgers had his mistakes in the game (a rare early INT too).

But that play..."should have held on to it" while getting hit, and facemasked? Sure. Ok.

 

Also, the play before the fumble? You mean the other hand to helmet contact on that one?

 

I stand by the FACT...that Rodgers was great in that game. Doesn't mean he didn't make some mistakes...but anyone who watched that saw two QBs who played great football.

Blaming either for the loss would have been foolish.

[parrot 789]

 

If Perry is healthy...throw that ranking out the window.

Look what they have done the last 3 weeks against Forte, McCoy, and Minnesota when moving Clay Matthews inside.

With Perry out, they didn't play Clay in the middle as much this past game though.

It has greatly changed how they have fared on run defense.

 

I admit I'm going mostly off stats, and I did hear where there run D has been much better since moving Matthews inside. And also, I have no focking clue how Belichick might approach this game, or any game for that matter.

 

I'm passing up the last day of hunting season for it, so it better be focking good!

[Squintz82 45]

 

Sure...they were lucky making it to OT after a nice come back with the D sucking.

And Rodgers had his mistakes in the game (a rare early INT too).

But that play..."should have held on to it" while getting hit, and facemasked? Sure. Ok.

 

Also, the play before the fumble? You mean the other hand to helmet contact on that one?

 

I stand by the FACT...that Rodgers was great in that game. Doesn't mean he didn't make some mistakes...but anyone who watched that saw two QBs who played great football.

Blaming either for the loss would have been foolish.

 

Didn't see any penalty on that play. Still lost the game on a fumble. You can argue those other points, but he still lost the game for the Packers after playing pretty well.

[FeelingMN 273]

Yeah, and before Gronk it was Welker, because everyone knew that Brady couldn't survive without Welker, except that he hasn't missed a beat without Welker. The only time I've seen end and over pop up with Brady was from reactionary dipsh!ts who were apparently blind to the fact that his offensive line was different every game and were getting their lunch eaten week in and week out.

Just a quick analysis....looking at the first 4 games of 2014, the first 6 of 2013, and the last few of 2013.

 

Brady has had zero games with a rating under 80 with a healthy Gronk.

 

7 without.

[parrot 789]

Just a quick analysis....looking at the first 4 games of 2014, the first 6 of 2013, and the last few of 2013.

 

Brady has had zero games with a rating under 80 with a healthy Gronk.

 

7 without.

As already mentioned, in the first few games of this year the Patriots were experimenting with multiple combinations on the offensive line trying to find some cohesion and consistency. In the first few games last year Brady had a slew of rookie receivers still trying to learn the offense. A healthy Gronk sure doesn't hurt, but he was not the only variable in these games.

[edjr 5,547]

They are two completely different qbs imo. Rodgers is young, has the arm, and the numbers, but can he win those pressure games.

 

Brady turns washed up players and no names into pro-bowlers. He has never had the talent other elite qbs have had and still manages to have the highest win % and put up a top 5 offense. Yes i am a Pats homer, but this guy always finds a way to win with what he has. It will be a sad day when he is gone in new England.

 

I'd take Brady any day of the week over any other qb in the nfl right now.

 

 

P.s Fantasy football wise, yes rodgers is the better qb

 

That is how most people that don't understand football judge everything in the NFL now. Based on Fantasy numbers

and not real life.

[Sho Nuff 719]

 

Didn't see any penalty on that play. Still lost the game on a fumble. You can argue those other points, but he still lost the game for the Packers after playing pretty well.

Didn't see one called...or you miss the guy grabbing his facemask in the picture you posted?

"playing pretty well" is all I really need to know that you won't give him credit and that you claim "he lost the game" is another sign that you really don't have much of a clue.

[edjr 5,547]

This is so dumb. Rodgers is awesome and arguably the best QB in football. Brady the same. No need to bicker.

 

Can't wait for Sunday.

[FeelingMN 273]

As already mentioned, in the first few games of this year the Patriots were experimenting with multiple combinations on the offensive line trying to find some cohesion and consistency. In the first few games last year Brady had a slew of rookie receivers still trying to learn the offense. A healthy Gronk sure doesn't hurt, but he was not the only variable in these games.

 

So New England found the perfect combination up front at exactly the same time Gronk started tearing it up? Could be chicken/egg type of thing. Sure.

 

There are lots of variables involved in team performance. But Gronk is the only constant here. With him Brady is much better than without him. Not sure how you could even argue otherwise.

[edjr 5,547]

So New England found the perfect combination up front at exactly the same time Gronk started tearing it up? Could be chicken/egg type of thing. Sure.

 

There are lots of variables involved in team performance. But Gronk is the only constant here. With him Brady is much better than without him. Not sure how you could even argue otherwise.

 

That is fact.

 

Rodgers is better with Nelson/Cobb

Brees is better with Graham

Manning is better with Thomas/Thomas

 

the list goes on forever

[FeelingMN 273]

This is so dumb. Rodgers is awesome and arguably the best QB in football. Brady the same. No need to bicker.

 

Can't wait for Sunday.

Truth. Hoping for a great game.

[Squintz82 45]

Didn't see one called...or you miss the guy grabbing his facemask in the picture you posted?

"playing pretty well" is all I really need to know that you won't give him credit and that you claim "he lost the game" is another sign that you really don't have much of a clue.

 

Who fumbled the game away? Had he not overthrown Jennings the previous play, this wouldn't even have been a conversation. Changing the argument doesn't change the point of my original post. I was responding to a statement.

[parrot 789]

So New England found the perfect combination up front at exactly the same time Gronk started tearing it up? Could be chicken/egg type of thing. Sure.

 

There are lots of variables involved in team performance. But Gronk is the only constant here. With him Brady is much better than without him. Not sure how you could even argue otherwise.

 

Just a quick analysis, Brady was sacked 12 times in the first 6 games and has been sacked 4 times in the last five. Call me crazy but I attribute that more to improved line play than the relative health of Gronk.

 

So Gronk's a constant? I guess that's why Brady's two sub-80 rating games early this year were the 1st and 4th games. Because Gronk wasn't healthy weeks 1 and 4 but was healthy weeks 2 and 3? That makes sense.

 

It would be dumb to argue that Brady isn't much better with Gronk than without him. If anyone ever makes that argument, you have my permission to give them all kinds of grief. The point I was responding to was the silly suggestion that Brady was done ("end", "over") without a healthy Gronk while ignoring everything else going on with the team. HTH.

[TD Ryan2 314]

So New England found the perfect combination up front at exactly the same time Gronk started tearing it up?

and don't forget... Brady stopped playing like a pvssy.

He had no faith in the O-line up to that point and wasn't stepping or moving confidently in the pocket... it was the first time ever I've seen Brady repeatedly 'turtling" or skittish over the pass rush - he was a bit shell shocked.

Then all the criticism started and his attitude changed and he played fearlessly - like he had nothing to lose. The line play was improving, Gronk was getting healthier each week, and Brady was moving better in the pocket and playing with confidence.

That was the confluence of events.

[parrot 789]

 

Then all the criticism started and his attitude changed and he played fearlessly - like he had nothing to lose. The line play was improving, Gronk was getting healthier each week, and Brady was moving better in the pocket and playing with confidence.

 

 

Honestly, these last few weeks I think Brady has moved around about as well as he EVER has. And I think his arm strength is about as good as it has ever been as well. He threw two passes in the Denver game - the TD to Edelman I think, and the endzone drop from Lafell - that were two of the hardest passes I've ever seen him throw. Even my wife, who isn't exactly a hard-core football fan was "Holy crap he threw that ball hard!" The accuracy is still there for the most part. Other than the difficulty with hitting the deep ball - which I think is as much his psychological aversion to turnovers as anything physical as he constantly overthrows the receivers - I don't see much degradation from Brady at all. Of course it helps that he was always slower than the second coming of Christ.

[TD Ryan2 314]

the difficulty with hitting the deep ball - which I think is as much his psychological aversion to turnovers as anything physical as he constantly overthrows the receivers -

I almost wrote the part about frequently overthrowing WRs.

I agree with that observation but it still doesn't change the equation - they don't hit often on the deep ball.