Why Can't the Patriots Win Without Cheating?

[Me_2006 14]

[IGotWorms 3,302]

Because your mother's a wh0re

[MDC 5,878]

The Pats playoff choke job is my favorite annual holiday.

[e-factor 13]

Because your mother's a wh0re

 

Interesting theory...........

[murf74 461]

Cause its harder.

[IGotWorms 3,302]

Interesting theory...........

 

It's a

[taxicab823 0]

the resolution on these new camera phones just aren't as good as the high def cameras from the early 2000's

[RoadLizard 73]

It's starting to NOT be a coincidence anymore. The Pats Super Bowl run from ten or so years ago is starting to have as many question marks and asterisks as the home run explosion in baseball during the steroid years. It's dirty. It's tainted. Even casual fans that don't have anything a stake are starting to wonder now. It is what it is. Chowd heads can get mad and keep licking belichicks fanny but its very interesting and hard to ignore.

 

Maybe Brady isn't so good after all? Just above average. Maybe Belichick isn't such an amazing head coach? Take away some key players, some luck, and whatever they were doing back then that helped them win and you have a team that cannot get it done in big games anymore. Sounds like the Colts and Manning for many years. Their little reign of terror is coming to an end. Slowly but surely.

 

The world is a better place because of it. The pats are just playoff food for the monster teams now. Such is th cycle of life.

[p00h 85]

you guys are all idiots, and before I explain why, let me state that I'm a jets fan, and as such hate the pats...

 

Saying that his lack of cheating is starting to show in their lack of SBs is retarded. Plain and simple. The NFL has a lot of parity, and as such, getting to the playoffs, and possibly having a bye, is best a coach can do. Once in the playoffs, it's a crap shoot of sorts, unless you are just an uber dominant team. Look at how the jets backed in 2 years and got to the AFC championship game. Look at how the packers backed in and won. Giants backed in and won. Point being, once in the playoffs, any team has the ability to knock off anyone else. The fact that the pats consistently get in, and consistently get byes, and consistently are playing in the conference championship game is a testament to BB and the organization. Sure it sucks not to win the chamopionship, but any one of you morons would be more than happy to see your team consistently playing in the tournament to have a chance at the championship. This is one of the more retarded discussions had on this board, and that is an accomplishment. I know it's easy to kick someone when they're down, and especially so when talking about the pats and BB, but just know the logic you're employing to do that kicking is asinine...

[FlaHawker 24]

let me state that I'm a jets fan,

I stopped here

[p00h 85]

I stopped here

 

no you didn't...

[Dr Hook 6]

How do we know they were not cheating?

[Bishop82 61]

Which sounds better?

 

New England Bills or Buffalo Patriots?

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

It's starting to NOT be a coincidence anymore. The Pats Super Bowl run from ten or so years ago is starting to have as many question marks and asterisks as the home run explosion in baseball during the steroid years. It's dirty. It's tainted. Even casual fans that don't have anything a stake are starting to wonder now. It is what it is. Chowd heads can get mad and keep licking belichicks fanny but its very interesting and hard to ignore.

 

Maybe Brady isn't so good after all? Just above average. Maybe Belichick isn't such an amazing head coach? Take away some key players, some luck, and whatever they were doing back then that helped them win and you have a team that cannot get it done in big games anymore. Sounds like the Colts and Manning for many years. Their little reign of terror is coming to an end. Slowly but surely.

 

The world is a better place because of it. The pats are just playoff food for the monster teams now. Such is th cycle of life.

 

Well put RL.

 

They're in a non-competitive division and have been given easy schedules for several years now. It's no wonder they make it to the playoffs but since they can't cheat anymore (at least not using cameras), they're having a tougher time closing the deal. As murph said, it's harder to win if you don't know the other team's play calling.

 

I especially like the 'The world is a better place because of it' comment.

[murf74 461]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/01/20/why-bill-belichick-really-needs-win-this-super-bowl/1cwfPVe2NfAh0xLbSxPbWM/story.html

 

Oh, yes, Bill Belichick really, really needs to win a post-Spygate Super Bowl.

 

You heard me. I have uttered the dreaded “S-word.” It’s the one no one around here wishes to acknowledge, but it’s the one word people in the rest of the country most associate with Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots.

 

Tom Brady's Last 4 AFC championship appearances:

 

2006

21 of 34

232 yds

1 TD 1 Int

79.5 rating = Loss

 

2007

22 of 33 209 yds

2 TD 3 Int

66.4 rating = Win

 

2011

22 of 36

239 yds

0 TD 2 Int

57.5 rating = Win

 

2012

29 of 54

320 yds

1 TD 2 Int

62.3 rating = Loss

 

Total

94 of 157

1000 yds

4 TD 8 Int

65.8 rating

 

5-5 playoff record since Spygate

[FlaHawker 24]

no you didn't...

Yes I did...

[Arsenal 3]

Tom Brady's Last 4 AFC championship appearances:

 

 

Brady obviously is not as good as he used to be. It happens, players get older and lose some of their edge, and I think it becomes more difficult for older players to sustain an elite level of play at the end of the season.

 

I also think that as the playoffs start, the effectiveness of coaching is less and it is harder to out scheme your opponent. At this point in the season, there are fewer surprises, you know what your teams strengths are (and your opponent) and it just comes down to execution and talent. For any team that is successful for a long period of time like the Patriots, it becomes difficult to retain talent as your free agents are paid more by other teams and you can't afford to keep them - just a fact of life in the NFL. Belichick is a great coach, and there is a lot he can do over the course of the season to win games via clever game plans, but that is not going to take you to a super bowl win. The fact is that the Patriots over-achieve in the regular season most years, and it catches up with them in the playoffs.

[jerryskids 5,172]

you guys are all idiots, and before I explain why, let me state that I'm a jets fan, and as such hate the pats...

 

Saying that his lack of cheating is starting to show in their lack of SBs is retarded. Plain and simple. The NFL has a lot of parity, and as such, getting to the playoffs, and possibly having a bye, is best a coach can do. Once in the playoffs, it's a crap shoot of sorts, unless you are just an uber dominant team. Look at how the jets backed in 2 years and got to the AFC championship game. Look at how the packers backed in and won. Giants backed in and won. Point being, once in the playoffs, any team has the ability to knock off anyone else. The fact that the pats consistently get in, and consistently get byes, and consistently are playing in the conference championship game is a testament to BB and the organization. Sure it sucks not to win the chamopionship, but any one of you morons would be more than happy to see your team consistently playing in the tournament to have a chance at the championship. This is one of the more retarded discussions had on this board, and that is an accomplishment. I know it's easy to kick someone when they're down, and especially so when talking about the pats and BB, but just know the logic you're employing to do that kicking is asinine...

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but...

 

last week I listened to a Bruce Arians interview -- he talked about the need to practice any scenario that might occur in a game. He gave an example (I'll omit the details) of something that happened in a random game one week, they practiced it the next week, and they actually ran up against it the following week. This is pretty fortuitous of course, but as a coach all you can do is work your players through possible scenarios. You may go through the entire season without encountering the scenario, but you can't control that.

 

Now, what happened with Spygate? They took the randomness out. They knew the scenarios to practice. That's a huge advantage in a league where most games are decided by a score or less.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Here are some more relevant facts:

- Brady hasn't won a SB since Bernard Pollard blew out his knee

- The Patriots have not won a SB since Robert Goulet died

- The Patriots have not won a SB since Bulgaria and Romania officially join the European Union

- The Patriots have not won a SB since YouTube was launched.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but...

 

last week I listened to a Bruce Arians interview -- he talked about the need to practice any scenario that might occur in a game. He gave an example (I'll omit the details) of something that happened in a random game one week, they practiced it the next week, and they actually ran up against it the following week. This is pretty fortuitous of course, but as a coach all you can do is work your players through possible scenarios. You may go through the entire season without encountering the scenario, but you can't control that.

 

Now, what happened with Spygate? They took the randomness out. They knew the scenarios to practice. That's a huge advantage in a league where most games are decided by a score or less.

 

Ummm. I think that you might be confused. The Patriots supposedly taped the other team's signals during games. There was no evidence that the Patriots taped anyone else's practice.

[jerryskids 5,172]

Ummm. I think that you might be confused. The Patriots supposedly taped the other team's signals during games. There was no evidence that the Patriots taped anyone else's practice.

That's certainly possible. I'm sitting here with a 100+ fever in a mild (for me) delirium.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

That's certainly possible. I'm sitting here with a 100+ fever in a mild (for me) delirium.

 

Well, there was that rumor that was going around based on info from the guy that supposedly did some taping of the Rams before the 2002 SB. However, there was never any basis for the accusation and if anyone really thinks that the SuperDome or any other SB venue is going to be a good place to practice your game plan, then you deserve to lose anyway.

[parrot 789]

What I don't get is why the announcers said yesterday that the Ravens felt they knew all the Patriots signals and call words for their no-huddle offense. Isn't that sort of thing "cheating"?

 

Oh wait, that's right, there's no rule(s) against taping another team's signals and/or coaching up your players on those signals in advance of a game, there is just a rule regarding from where that taping can be done. I forgot that for a minute.

[Franknbeans 46]

Nice kick you pansy

[edjr 5,547]

why can't the other 27 teams that haven't won since 2004 win without cheating?

[jerryskids 5,172]

why can't the other 27 teams that haven't won since 2004 win without cheating?

Obviously they can't without cheating either. You are proving his point.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Nice kick you pansy

 

 

 

Suh would be proud!

[edjr 5,547]

Obviously they can't without cheating either.

 

Yeah that's why.

[Cruzer 1,992]

why can't the other 27 teams that haven't won since 2004 win without cheating?

I think we could literally play 13 on both offense and defense, tape record opposing team meetings, and have the other sides playbook and still suck.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

you guys are all idiots, and before I explain why, let me state that I'm a jets fan, and as such hate the pats...

 

Saying that his lack of cheating is starting to show in their lack of SBs is retarded. Plain and simple. The NFL has a lot of parity, and as such, getting to the playoffs, and possibly having a bye, is best a coach can do. Once in the playoffs, it's a crap shoot of sorts, unless you are just an uber dominant team. Look at how the jets backed in 2 years and got to the AFC championship game. Look at how the packers backed in and won. Giants backed in and won. Point being, once in the playoffs, any team has the ability to knock off anyone else. The fact that the pats consistently get in, and consistently get byes, and consistently are playing in the conference championship game is a testament to BB and the organization. Sure it sucks not to win the chamopionship, but any one of you morons would be more than happy to see your team consistently playing in the tournament to have a chance at the championship. This is one of the more retarded discussions had on this board, and that is an accomplishment. I know it's easy to kick someone when they're down, and especially so when talking about the pats and BB, but just know the logic you're employing to do that kicking is asinine...

 

If you're a Jets fan, you realize a great reason the Pats go back time and time again is because the AFC East is a joke. The Pats are a decently run organization while the other 3 are dysfunctional garbage. The Pats have been lucky enough to have an elite QB while the other 3 organizations in the AFC East are terrible at the position.

 

The Pats can sleepwalk into the playoffs. Truth is they don't and are usually a pretty strong team in the regular season. But have been getting exposed when they get to the playoffs.

[RLLD 3,455]

I picture Bellicheat over on the sideline before the play "Sweep the leg........you Got a PROBLEM with that Mr Brady?"

[p00h 85]

If you're a Jets fan, you realize a great reason the Pats go back time and time again is because the AFC East is a joke. The Pats are a decently run organization while the other 3 are dysfunctional garbage. The Pats have been lucky enough to have an elite QB while the other 3 organizations in the AFC East are terrible at the position.

 

The Pats can sleepwalk into the playoffs. Truth is they don't and are usually a pretty strong team in the regular season. But have been getting exposed when they get to the playoffs.

 

 

If you sweep the AFC east, that gets you 6 wins. That's with a sweep. How many wins have they averaged per year over the last decade? 12ish? Listen, I'm not trying to put the pats up on some pedestal or anything. Just point out the fact that it's a solid run organization, the cheating stuff aside. And being a jets fan, I can appreciate a solidly run organization, because I have to deal with the clown and idiot show on a yearly basis. Whether they sleep walk into the playoffs or not, fans of 27 other teams would kill to have their team consistently either playing to get into the SB or being in the SB. Even if the championships aren't coming. To say every team other than the team that wins the SB had the same season is also really really dumb, especially from a fan's perspective. IF a player or the org say SB or bust, understandable. From a fan's perspective, to be able to have home games in the playoffs is huge, and something any fan can appreciate, despite the results...

[edjr 5,547]

I picture Bellicheat over on the sideline before the play "Sweep the leg........you Got a PROBLEM with that Mr Brady?"

 

[jaxjag 43]

you guys are all idiots, and before I explain why, let me state that I'm a jets fan, and as such hate the pats...

 

Saying that his lack of cheating is starting to show in their lack of SBs is retarded. Plain and simple. The NFL has a lot of parity, and as such, getting to the playoffs, and possibly having a bye, is best a coach can do. Once in the playoffs, it's a crap shoot of sorts, unless you are just an uber dominant team. Look at how the jets backed in 2 years and got to the AFC championship game. Look at how the packers backed in and won. Giants backed in and won. Point being, once in the playoffs, any team has the ability to knock off anyone else. The fact that the pats consistently get in, and consistently get byes, and consistently are playing in the conference championship game is a testament to BB and the organization. Sure it sucks not to win the chamopionship, but any one of you morons would be more than happy to see your team consistently playing in the tournament to have a chance at the championship. This is one of the more retarded discussions had on this board, and that is an accomplishment. I know it's easy to kick someone when they're down, and especially so when talking about the pats and BB, but just know the logic you're employing to do that kicking is asinine...

 

This is a great post. Winning the SB ain't easy! I've followed the NFL for a very long time and have seen the pattern repeat. The Dolphins go to three straight SBs (win two) and, although competitive through the 70s/80s, don't win again. The Steelers are dominant for a time and go dormant. The Cowboys win three and go quiet. The 49ers peaked and fell... It's a natural cycle.

 

New England's record is more impressive than any team not winning a SB in the last 5-6 years. A perfect regular season, a 50 TD season. Two AFC championships. Most NFL teams would kill for that success.

 

Hell, Brady tore his ACL in '08. I think he is far more reluctant to run the ball since the injury. That showed up again on Sunday. Might even have cost them the game...

 

A lot of jealousy in this thread. A lot of losers...

[jaxjag 43]

If you're a Jets fan, you realize a great reason the Pats go back time and time again is because the AFC East is a joke. The Pats are a decently run organization while the other 3 are dysfunctional garbage. The Pats have been lucky enough to have an elite QB while the other 3 organizations in the AFC East are terrible at the position.

 

The Pats can sleepwalk into the playoffs. Truth is they don't and are usually a pretty strong team in the regular season. But have been getting exposed when they get to the playoffs.

 

In truth, the "quality" of the divisions changes quickly. A few years ago, I targeted NFC West defenses in FF because the division was so poor... Now it is considered quite tough.

 

I grabbed the final standings for 2006 (first I looked at and the last prior to Spygate) and the AFC East has the best winning percentage of any division.

 

AFC EAST W L T PCT PF PA STREAK DIV CONF

z- New England 12 4 0 .750 385 237 Won 3 4-2 8-4

x- NY Jets 10 6 0 .625 316 295 Won 3 4-2 7-5

Buffalo 7 9 0 .438 300 311 Lost 2 3-3 5-7

Miami 6 10 0 .375 260 283 Lost 3 1-5 3-9

 

Against the rest of the NFL THIS year the dolphins were 7-7 and the Jets/Bills were 6-8. Even with all their alleged dysfunction, they're winning almost half their games - and capable of winning on any given Sunday. Is this really garbage?

 

I do get the point that New England isn't challenged much... But there are other weak divisions in football. For years, the Colts had an expansion Texans franchise and the Jaguars/Titans; two middle of the pack teams that sometimes threatened them but - on average - were middle of the pack. Not really unlike Miami, NYJ and Buffalo.

 

The AFC est isn't stacked either; In fact, the only divisions that are routinely hotly contested are the NFC East, NFC North and AFC North.

[jaxjag 43]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but...

 

last week I listened to a Bruce Arians interview -- he talked about the need to practice any scenario that might occur in a game. He gave an example (I'll omit the details) of something that happened in a random game one week, they practiced it the next week, and they actually ran up against it the following week. This is pretty fortuitous of course, but as a coach all you can do is work your players through possible scenarios. You may go through the entire season without encountering the scenario, but you can't control that.

 

Now, what happened with Spygate? They took the randomness out. They knew the scenarios to practice. That's a huge advantage in a league where most games are decided by a score or less.

 

You realize this is 100% speculation? Every team has game film and can put whatever effort they choose into analysis and "intelligence gathering".

 

The Patriots have shattered scoring records since Spygate. Brady has been in position to win two SBs since then. With a little better defense; or Welker holding onto the football; or lack of great plays by Tyree/Manningham, he has 5 rings. Did Spygate have anything to do with those plays? The answer is simply "no".

[kmbryant09 1]

You realize this is 100% speculation? Every team has game film and can put whatever effort they choose into analysis and "intelligence gathering".

 

The Patriots have shattered scoring records since Spygate. Brady has been in position to win two SBs since then. With a little better defense; or Welker holding onto the football; or lack of great plays by Tyree/Manningham, he has 5 rings. Did Spygate have anything to do with those plays? The answer is simply "no".

Or if Brady doesn't take a safety on the first offensive possession of the game. Of if he doesn't throw a 4th-quarter INT with a lead. Or if he produces more than 14 TOTAL POINTS in the 2nd half of those 2 SB's. Of if he scores more than 15.5 points (average) after averaging 36.8 and 32.1 in the regular seasons. Or if he doesn't go a combined 16-31 with 156 yards and an INT - a 63.3 rating - in the 4th quarter of those 2 games.

 

Look, Brady was not the only reason why the Patriots have failed so much the last 8 years. But 8 years ago Brady was placed on a QB-Pedestal in part because of some clutch play, and in-part because of a great team around him. But he's done MORE than enough over the last 8 years to be labeled as a choker, or the opposite of clutch. It just seems that people don't talk about it enough. Tom Brady has been disappointing over the last 8 years in the post-season.

 

People like myself, among many others, felt that the Pedestal he was placed on was too much, too high given the team accomplishments. The Patriots 1st SB victory was all about their defense shutting down the Greatest Show on Turf. Brady threw for 145 yards! And he threw for 115 in the AFC Championship game! Yes, he played very well in the Patriots' 2nd and 3rd SB wins, and he deserves credit for that. But like I said, please don't tell me that he's the greatest of all-time because the Patriots won 3 SB's. And likewise, after hearing arrogant Patriots fans (I live in Boston) shove Brady and Belichick down our throats as these God-like, all-time greats who can do no wrong - guess what, they've been doing wrong for 8 years! They've choked in 2 SB's in which they were heavy favorites! Belichick has made horrible decisions in the biggest games, Brady has played AWFUL at times in the biggest moments of the biggest games. For 8 years!

 

I just think its time for Patriots fans to take it, rather than give it like they've done for so long.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Or if Brady doesn't take a safety on the first offensive possession of the game. Of if he doesn't throw a 4th-quarter INT with a lead. Or if he produces more than 14 TOTAL POINTS in the 2nd half of those 2 SB's. Of if he scores more than 15.5 points (average) after averaging 36.8 and 32.1 in the regular seasons. Or if he doesn't go a combined 16-31 with 156 yards and an INT - a 63.3 rating - in the 4th quarter of those 2 games.

 

Look, Brady was not the only reason why the Patriots have failed so much the last 8 years. But 8 years ago Brady was placed on a QB-Pedestal in part because of some clutch play, and in-part because of a great team around him. But he's done MORE than enough over the last 8 years to be labeled as a choker, or the opposite of clutch. It just seems that people don't talk about it enough. Tom Brady has been disappointing over the last 8 years in the post-season.

 

People like myself, among many others, felt that the Pedestal he was placed on was too much, too high given the team accomplishments. The Patriots 1st SB victory was all about their defense shutting down the Greatest Show on Turf. Brady threw for 145 yards! And he threw for 115 in the AFC Championship game! Yes, he played very well in the Patriots' 2nd and 3rd SB wins, and he deserves credit for that. But like I said, please don't tell me that he's the greatest of all-time because the Patriots won 3 SB's. And likewise, after hearing arrogant Patriots fans (I live in Boston) shove Brady and Belichick down our throats as these God-like, all-time greats who can do no wrong - guess what, they've been doing wrong for 8 years! They've choked in 2 SB's in which they were heavy favorites! Belichick has made horrible decisions in the biggest games, Brady has played AWFUL at times in the biggest moments of the biggest games. For 8 years!

 

I just think its time for Patriots fans to take it, rather than give it like they've done for so long.

 

Great post and it all goes back to 'why haven't they won big games since Spygate?'

 

Hard for people not to question how much of their legacy during the Belichick/Brady years is attributed towards cheating. They've gotten to some big games since being told to stop cheating but again, it's a weak division and they've been getting some pretty easy schedules.

 

Only the most die-hard, head-in-the-sand fans refuse to believe some if not most of their glory days only existed because they cheated.

 

Anyone can look like a genius HC or elite QB if you know the other teams plays.

[edjr 5,547]

I heard the Patriots are bringing back Eric Mangini and Matt Estrella

[RoadLizard 73]

Or if Brady doesn't take a safety on the first offensive possession of the game. Of if he doesn't throw a 4th-quarter INT with a lead. Or if he produces more than 14 TOTAL POINTS in the 2nd half of those 2 SB's. Of if he scores more than 15.5 points (average) after averaging 36.8 and 32.1 in the regular seasons. Or if he doesn't go a combined 16-31 with 156 yards and an INT - a 63.3 rating - in the 4th quarter of those 2 games.

 

Look, Brady was not the only reason why the Patriots have failed so much the last 8 years. But 8 years ago Brady was placed on a QB-Pedestal in part because of some clutch play, and in-part because of a great team around him. But he's done MORE than enough over the last 8 years to be labeled as a choker, or the opposite of clutch. It just seems that people don't talk about it enough. Tom Brady has been disappointing over the last 8 years in the post-season.

 

People like myself, among many others, felt that the Pedestal he was placed on was too much, too high given the team accomplishments. The Patriots 1st SB victory was all about their defense shutting down the Greatest Show on Turf. Brady threw for 145 yards! And he threw for 115 in the AFC Championship game! Yes, he played very well in the Patriots' 2nd and 3rd SB wins, and he deserves credit for that. But like I said, please don't tell me that he's the greatest of all-time because the Patriots won 3 SB's. And likewise, after hearing arrogant Patriots fans (I live in Boston) shove Brady and Belichick down our throats as these God-like, all-time greats who can do no wrong - guess what, they've been doing wrong for 8 years! They've choked in 2 SB's in which they were heavy favorites! Belichick has made horrible decisions in the biggest games, Brady has played AWFUL at times in the biggest moments of the biggest games. For 8 years!

 

I just think its time for Patriots fans to take it, rather than give it like they've done for so long.

 

Yes, yes and yes. Alls ya ever heard about was how Manning was a choke in big games. I think its time to share the wealth here with Tommy B.