Injuries.......

[Maulers1973 117]

Is it just me or does it feel like it's out of control?

Vikings QBs, all of them.

DJ

Cook

Ware

OBJ

JJ Watt

A Rob

Chris Carson

Forte/Powell

Eric Berry

Edelman

 

Cameron Meredith

 

AAron Rogers

 

Deshaun Watson

 

Carson Palmer

 

Richard Sherman

 

Chris Thompson

 

Ryan Shazier

 

Carson Wentz

 

It goes on and on and on. Seems anymore the only constant in the NFL is that the players WILL get injured. It's no longer a matter of if, but when. Isn't there a competition committee? The owners say they care about players safety, but clearly they don't. I don't understand. Would they rather pay a guy millions of dollars to sit, to rehab all year???

IMO it's killing the product. I think artificial turf is a HUGE culprit. I also, think it's well past time they completely revamp the protective gear they wear. I don't think they should be wrapped in bubble wrap, but I don't care if extra padding slows the players down. If everyone must wear it, then it will affect everyone the same. If it slows the RB down by 4%, then it will do the same to the DL, LB and DB that chase him. I know a lot of non-contact injuries can't be prevented by additional padding. So what. Many contact injuries would. How many broken ankles and wrists have there been? A QB has a fractured back for crying out loud!!!

FF is becoming agonizingly frustrating with all these injuries. We draft guys and expect them to be out on the field. If they stink or the defense of the other team was just better, then that I can live with.

Teams can't win on the field if their studs are out. Same with FF, can't win when your guys are injured.

What can be done?

[weepaws 2,451]

What can be done is a good question.

 

But what do you want to see done, flag football?

 

I've been saying it for a few years now they will be changing the game slowly but surly.

 

But so will they be watering down the product to do so.

 

Really how else can they protect the players from suffering more injuries?

[Maulers1973 117]

1. Eliminate artificial turf. That's the biggest one.

 

2. Extra padding especially in the area of the ankle and lower leg.

 

3. Maybe look into air pockets built into the padding to absorb more of the impact, similar to how shoes have a pocket of air within the sole.

 

4. Consider taking plastic out of the shoulder pads.

 

Just random thoughts off the top of my head. More needs to be done. I am considering this being my last for FF. I wonder if others are too. I know FF won't die, and we had NFL before FF. Yet, if FF did die or dwindle in popularity, I have to believe that will hurt the popularity of the sport and ultimately, the money that the owners have become so accustomed to.

[cyclone24 1,794]

Did you see Conleys Achilles injury last night for KC?

 

Fockin gross....when they slowed it down even through his pants you could see it pop.

[Kelvarr 13]

Did you see Conleys Achilles injury last night for KC?

 

Fockin gross....when they slowed it down even through his pants you could see it pop.

I did. That was weird. The announcers just acted all confused. It was really only one of a couple things it could be.

[brotherbock 349]

I did. That was weird. The announcers just acted all confused. It was really only one of a couple things it could be.

 

Really could only have been the achilles (I mean, could have been the tendon or the heel bone, but really same overall issue).

 

I once saw a guy's patellar tendon snap. He lunged forward, planted his foot with his knee bent, and his upper leg just kept on going forward. Yuk. Same sort of thing. Really only one diagnosis.

[montana 89]

Charles Clay out after getting knee scoped.

[Drizzay 644]

I blame the weight lifting they do more than the turf they play on. Nobody took their queue from David Boston.

[Ray_T 587]

1. Eliminate artificial turf. That's the biggest one.

 

2. Extra padding especially in the area of the ankle and lower leg.

 

3. Maybe look into air pockets built into the padding to absorb more of the impact, similar to how shoes have a pocket of air within the sole.

 

4. Consider taking plastic out of the shoulder pads.

 

Just random thoughts off the top of my head. More needs to be done. I am considering this being my last for FF. I wonder if others are too. I know FF won't die, and we had NFL before FF. Yet, if FF did die or dwindle in popularity, I have to believe that will hurt the popularity of the sport and ultimately, the money that the owners have become so accustomed to.

Good post.

 

Artificial Turf is the big one.

 

without a doubt. Grass Turf is better for longevity of the player. I dont know the stats, but I know for sure that Lower body injuries (especially knee and ankle injuries) are more prevalent on Artificial Turf.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I blame the weight lifting they do more than the turf they play on. Nobody took their queue from David Boston.

It really could be. That's a lot of stress on the ligaments and joints.

[Ray_T 587]

It really could be. That's a lot of stress on the ligaments and joints.

It is conceivable that players can hurt themselves by overtraining in the offseason.

 

but I would also say if you are a professional football player and you are gonna go hard in the offseason, spend the cash and get yourself a professional trainer who will make sure this does not happen.

[Maulers1973 117]

Are injury rates lower in college? In HS? There has to be a mountain of analytical data around this. There has to be some correlations found. So why isn't it being talked about? Is it money? The turf companies don't want teams to scrap their product?

 

I just find it baffling that these team owners are seemlingly content with the way things are: paying millions to guys like Bridgewater and DJ to rehab for a year or more. How much money did the Chiefs pay Charles to rehab? That's millions of dollars going toward zero production on the football field!!

 

 

Also, thinking outside of the box, I wonder if there is a way to put some level of sealed padding down, and then put natural turf down over it. So, that there is some level of firmness to the ground, but upon a severe impact, the ground has some give to it.

 

Just seems there are some things that they could do to make it better, and safer without turning it into flag football.

[brotherbock 349]

Are injury rates lower in college? In HS? There has to be a mountain of analytical data around this. There has to be some correlations found.

 

That's a big assumption. The NFL has been relying on people not thinking about injuries for years, right? Think of their head-trauma hijinks. It's entirely possible that this data actually has not been collected in any meaningful way.

 

At risk of opening a can of worms, it's similar to the NRA lobbying against nationwide collection of gun violence statistics. (Again, not making a political statement, that's just a fact, they lobby against that and they openly claim to.) It's hard to find what might be certain meaningful gun violence stats because certain people with money and power have a vested interest in no one taking a close look at them. So the data just isn't collected. Same with police shootings, cyclists being hit by cars, and lots of other occurrences. (To be clear: I do not want to talk about guns or any of these other topics in this thread...it's just an analogy )

 

Not saying it isn't out there, but it's maybe not a good assumption to make that it is.

[murf74 461]

How many of these injuries we are discussing didn't happen on artificial turf

 

 

Add Ware to your list of big injuries.

[Drizzay 644]

And it is not like new turf is like the stuff at the old Vet in Philly. Players always b!tch about the real stuff at Soldier Filed and Heinz. Maybe that is more about not getting enough traction?

[brotherbock 349]

How many of these injuries we are discussing didn't happen on artificial turf

 

 

Add Ware to your list of big injuries.

 

And add Dalvin too.

 

That's the thing--is anyone collecting what seems like an important data point, injuries on turf vs grass? I guarantee you the league isn't. If they collect that data, someone will ask for it, and then they might have to do something. If they don't collect it, they don't have it to give to anyone.

[Maulers1973 117]

Still, if I'm a team owner, the last thing I want to do is pay millions of dollars to a guy going thru rehab and not playing football. Thus, I'd have a vested interest (to the tune of millions of dollars) to do everything in my power to see to it that they remain on the field.

[polecatt 399]

I actually think injuries have gotten better, at least as far as my fantasy teams, I have learned over the years to not draft players who get injured a lot, but that's not easy or fool proof

Have no idea if they are actually down

 

I think the taking out of dirty hits and such as that has helped but the kind like Dalvin Cook's are just going to happen sometimes, it's unavoidable

The NFL is at the extreme of people expending max energy at frantic paces and coming into direct contact or sudden change of direction

Injuries are just going to happen, hits in the NFL can be like minor car accidents, so much speed and mass is invloved

Training techniques are supposedly evolved and players more closely monitored by trainers and such so it's hard to think it's their training, although I'm sure it is at times

I believe it's just players are bigger, stronger, and faster. Their added muscle power goes beyond their added bone and ligament power. So they are more prone to snap under duress.

[brotherbock 349]

I actually think injuries have gotten better, at least as far as my fantasy teams, I have learned over the years to not draft players who get injured a lot, but that's not easy or fool proof

Have no idea if they are actually down

 

I think the taking out of dirty hits and such as that has helped but the kind like Dalvin Cook's are just going to happen sometimes, it's unavoidable

The NFL is at the extreme of people expending max energy at frantic paces and coming into direct contact or sudden change of direction

Injuries are just going to happen, hits in the NFL can be like minor car accidents, so much speed and mass is invloved

Training techniques are supposedly evolved and players more closely monitored by trainers and such so it's hard to think it's their training, although I'm sure it is at times

I believe it's just players are bigger, stronger, and faster. Their added muscle power goes beyond their added bone and ligament power. So they are more prone to snap under duress.

 

A lot of truth here. Olympic gymnasts can sometimes break their own bones just by flexing their muscles too hard (particularly the women, has to do in part with stunted bone development and outrageous muscle mass). The human body can be made to do things that aren't healthy for it in the end.

 

The helmet to helmet hit against Kelce last night was a good example of the paces and speeds you're talking about. My wife walked into the room for the slowmo replay and said "How the he!! was the defender supposed to avoid that?" He's tackling, Kelce goes down, all in a fraction of a second.

 

But we know the playing surfaces can have big effects. That's the premise behind the rubber pellet surfaces, right? It's possible for example that they've made it too spongy--reduce trauma from landing, but increase instability and cause more knee injuries. Again, hypothetical, but possible. Some of the worst ankle/knee injuries I've seen in person involve things like trampolines and spring boards and such.

[polecatt 399]

 

A lot of truth here. Olympic gymnasts can sometimes break their own bones just by flexing their muscles too hard (particularly the women, has to do in part with stunted bone development and outrageous muscle mass). The human body can be made to do things that aren't healthy for it in the end.

 

The helmet to helmet hit against Kelce last night was a good example of the paces and speeds you're talking about. My wife walked into the room for the slowmo replay and said "How the he!! was the defender supposed to avoid that?" He's tackling, Kelce goes down, all in a fraction of a second.

 

But we know the playing surfaces can have big effects. That's the premise behind the rubber pellet surfaces, right? It's possible for example that they've made it too spongy--reduce trauma from landing, but increase instability and cause more knee injuries. Again, hypothetical, but possible. Some of the worst ankle/knee injuries I've seen in person involve things like trampolines and spring boards and such.

Well, I believe the more bouncy kind of turf can lead to some more freakish injuries for the reasons you stated. Overall though I believe it's still much better than the old astro turf, which was basically playing on cement with a thin layer of carpet over it. If you have ever had any kind of knee, hip, back pain and walked on cement vs. the rubberized kind of floor, you know it's no comparison which is less painful by a long shot. The astro turf also was kind of like playing in glue or tar, it would make your foot stick and could lead to serious injury. I'll never forget seeing the QB for the Falcons, forget his name, want to say Chris Chandler, tearing his ACL by cutting and getting his foot caught in the astro turf untouched.

That said I could see the rubberized turf going the other way and being hard to get proper traction on, leading to injury. Still though, better than the astro turf which caused lots of wear and tear injuries and the cutting type in a different way.

It would be nice to see them only play on grass but that's not going to happen and they get injured on grass too.

[brotherbock 349]

Well, I believe the more bouncy kind of turf can lead to some more freakish injuries for the reasons you stated. Overall though I believe it's still much better than the old astro turf, which was basically playing on cement with a thin layer of carpet over it. If you have ever had any kind of knee, hip, back pain and walked on cement vs. the rubberized kind of floor, you know it's no comparison which is less painful by a long shot. The astro turf also was kind of like playing in glue or tar, it would make your foot stick and could lead to serious injury. I'll never forget seeing the QB for the Falcons, forget his name, want to say Chris Chandler, tearing his ACL by cutting and getting his foot caught in the astro turf untouched.

That said I could see the rubberized turf going the other way and being hard to get proper traction on, leading to injury. Still though, better than the astro turf which caused lots of wear and tear injuries and the cutting type in a different way.

It would be nice to see them only play on grass but that's not going to happen and they get injured on grass too.

 

Totally agree about the old turf. "Hey guys, wanna play tackle football on the floor of a parking garage? No? Oh, we'll put a bit of carpet down for you!" The new stuff really is better, but maybe not in every way. Amazingly, natural grass seems maybe better. NFL has to go organic!

[Ray_T 587]

 

That's a big assumption. The NFL has been relying on people not thinking about injuries for years, right? Think of their head-trauma hijinks. It's entirely possible that this data actually has not been collected in any meaningful way.

 

At risk of opening a can of worms, it's similar to the NRA lobbying against nationwide collection of gun violence statistics. (Again, not making a political statement, that's just a fact, they lobby against that and they openly claim to.) It's hard to find what might be certain meaningful gun violence stats because certain people with money and power have a vested interest in no one taking a close look at them. So the data just isn't collected. Same with police shootings, cyclists being hit by cars, and lots of other occurrences. (To be clear: I do not want to talk about guns or any of these other topics in this thread...it's just an analogy )

 

Not saying it isn't out there, but it's maybe not a good assumption to make that it is.

ding ding ding. we have a winner.

 

by collecting data on injuries, the NFL would open themselves up to lawsuits when people start to ask what they have done about the problem.

 

The NFL would bury this info if it could.

[Kent 228]

I agree with the training causing injuries. But mainly because these guys are humongous. It's tough for the bone structure to support that size/weight and we are seeing guys just crumble.

[Maulers1973 117]

I agree with the training causing injuries. But mainly because these guys are humongous. It's tough for the bone structure to support that size/weight and we are seeing guys just crumble.

 

Edleman is not humongous. Ware isn't humongous. Might explain JJ Watt breaking his leg by falling down, but not the majority of injuries. Cook is not humongous.

 

I don't buy the training argument for a second. Guys have lifted weights thoughout the history of the NFL. I bet substantial money that injuries are much more prevalent now than they were 20, 30 and 40 years ago. Guys were big, fast and athletic then too!

[Maulers1973 117]

Adding to the list, ALL of the Giants WR's. Also, add in ALL of the Bears inside LB's. It's crazy!!

[Kent 228]

 

Edleman is not humongous. Ware isn't humongous. Might explain JJ Watt breaking his leg by falling down, but not the majority of injuries. Cook is not humongous.

 

I don't buy the training argument for a second. Guys have lifted weights thoughout the history of the NFL. I bet substantial money that injuries are much more prevalent now than they were 20, 30 and 40 years ago. Guys were big, fast and athletic then too!

The supplements these dudes suck down through a firehouse on the daily ain't what was happening 20-40 years ago. Stuff that didn't exist 20 years ago in its current form. Safeties are now bigger than linebackers 20 years ago.

[Maulers1973 117]

The supplements these dudes suck down through a firehouse on the daily ain't what was happening 20-40 years ago. Stuff that didn't exist 20 years ago in its current form. Safeties are now bigger than linebackers 20 years ago.

 

You throwing out a 20 years ago reference. I'd argue that the prevalence of illegal steroids was MUCH higher then than it is now with the more stringent testing they have now. Training, supplements, and all that stuff has been going on since the beginning of time. Also, statistics won't back up your last sentence. You're just making stuff up because it sounds good.

[LunaTick 29]

Field Turf, I too am wondering if it is such a good thing

Shoes on Field Turf. Or is it a matter of too much traction

 

Shortened and lower contact preseason. Has always been a montra that RB that held out. Expected to have injury shortened seasons.

It feels like some positions fit this a bit. Lack of development time in preseason leading to an increase chance of injury, poor technique and lack of positional development.

[philmckracken 3]

 

That's a big assumption. The NFL has been relying on people not thinking about injuries for years, right? Think of their head-trauma hijinks. It's entirely possible that this data actually has not been collected in any meaningful way.

 

At risk of opening a can of worms, it's similar to the NRA lobbying against nationwide collection of gun violence statistics. (Again, not making a political statement, that's just a fact, they lobby against that and they openly claim to.) It's hard to find what might be certain meaningful gun violence stats because certain people with money and power have a vested interest in no one taking a close look at them. So the data just isn't collected. Same with police shootings, cyclists being hit by cars, and lots of other occurrences. (To be clear: I do not want to talk about guns or any of these other topics in this thread...it's just an analogy )

 

Not saying it isn't out there, but it's maybe not a good assumption to make that it is.

Just can't let this one go. The NRA has been blocking the collection of gun violence statistics by the Centers for Disease Control. A normal person would ask why the CDC is collecting such statistics. The reason is that they are making a back door attempt to get gun violence classified as a health issue like substances that cause cancer or diabetes. Then they think they can institute some type of regulations on guns because they are a health issue. Also, the fbi keeps very detailed gun violence statistics.

[jimaveli 119]

Bigness is relative. A lot of these dudes are weight and muscle mass-wise at the edge of what their 'frame' should be carrying. Lots more are well over it..usually linemen on both sides of the ball are most guilty of this. It's no shock that they tend to drop a ton of weight when they retire. It's also no shock that a lineman seemingly gets hurt every game I watch in full...usually leg-related.

 

Good discussion, folks. I'm mostly of the thought that the artificial turf is irresponsible to have at this point. It just needs to be taken out of the game. I'd love to see some organizated data to refute our stance. These ligament injuries seem to have a lot to do with someone changing direction on that surface only to have their bodies not cooperate with the move.

[jimaveli 119]

Last thing for now, no matter what is done, we are talking about a violent sport. Borderline barbaric. It is highly possible that a few generations from now will look back on 2017 NFL as an insane form of entertainment...maybe to the degree that we now look back on gladiator stuff where dudes were getting fed to animals.

[JagFan 97]

Don't expect any solutions to this issue anytime soon. This is, first and foremost, a money making business. The NFL will address issues keeping $'s out first. Right now losing a star player isn't their focus. The focus is on the fact that they have let their employees take over the ship with this National Anthem crap. The majority of the intelligent world...which equates to the folks who actually have money to buy the product...is now focused on the disrespect they feel by the actions of the "hired help". I'd save this issue for next year when maybe someone will care.

[Maulers1973 117]

Ok, but there's a good chance I won't be in FF next year. As, I won't care. The product is falty. If I bought a TV and it quit working after a few weeks, and the company replaced it and the same thing happened and again. At some point, I'd say, "just give me my money back." I'm just about to that point with FF. We can't predict injuries. I'm just over it.

 

On second thought, maybe FF points should be awarded for injured players. lol

[Maulers1973 117]

So, I wonder who will get lost for the season today??

[phillygrrl08 139]

Hopefully nobody gets hurt. Not likely, but fingers crossed. Even for the players I'm going against

 

Diggs out

 

Any idea on Kelce? Late game and all my other options are early games

[brotherbock 349]

Hopefully nobody gets hurt. Not likely, but fingers crossed. Even for the players I'm going against

 

Diggs out

 

Any idea on Kelce? Late game and all my other options are early games

 

Kelce wasn't on the injury report, Reid saying he expects him to play. I picked up ASJ early in the week and dropped him yesterday planning to start Kelce. So hopefully that's what happens.

[weepaws 2,451]

So, I wonder who will get lost for the season today??

 

Packers fans are looking for you.

[Maulers1973 117]

Packers fans are looking for you.

 

That game, was it in Minn? What surface do they have again?

[TheUsualSuspect 207]

Maulers, I feel your frustration.

 

Injuries are part of the game; however, if after a just a couple weeks into the season half of my starting line up isn't who I even drafted, it's not even fun. And I know, that's where the true Gurus come out and hit the WW, trades, yada yada... but I don't have time for that. Like most people, I have a family and a job. Thursday rolls around quicker than ever, and half of my team is injured or at least have the dreaded red "Q" by his name.

 

Sometimes, I work Sundays. When I come home after the games, I first check the box scores... then with hand over eyes, pray none of my players became seriously hurt.

 

As for why so many injuries, we'll all have speculation. The one thing that I will add that hasn't been brought up is scheduling. I think that these Thursday Night games are killer. The quick turnaround from Sunday, sometimes even late Sunday to the Thursday demands a lot from these Neanderthals. And although I'm not suggesting everyone is becoming hurt on these Thursdays, the toll it takes physically on these men is substantial.

 

I like many other casual fans, really don't even care much for the Thursday Night games. Unfortunately, as long as these games remain profitable, I suppose we will just float on.

[Mark91G 13]

I played 3 different sports on grass for 15 years everything changed to artificial turf when I turned 20 and I was getting pain in my knees and ankles after every game then my Achilles snapped the next year I was doing nothing different and always warmed up and stretched so I agree with the turf being an issue,

 

padding can only really improve with technology and materials improving which happens over time.

 

weight training comes with issues if you up the weights you need to do more to strengthen ligaments tendons and to keep joints better but I would guess the guys who should be looking after the player know this and ensure this is done correctly.

 

of course not all these injuries are down to these things OBJ was a bad landing nothing can stop that Rodgers broke on contact that's sport but injuries like cook I feel all relate to the turf in someway. I would love to see a full season played on grass and see what the feed back is from players about pain from joints and injuries as a whole. I know grass is harder to look after but not for organisations with the NFL type money.