School shooting solution

[LOD01 185]

 

I am not saying it should I just was giving evidence backing someone else's claim that a certain part of population kills more yet here we are discussing guns

 

why didn't the left jump to a muslim ban after the Boston bombing, Orlando, San Bernardino, nope just guns

They couldn't. The right beat them to it and one thing they won't do is agree with the right.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,552]

About 5% of the Black male population is incarcerated, which is more than any other race. But the vast majority arent. How do we eliminate that pesky 5%?

Keep them in prison

[LOD01 185]

 

They will erode the 2A little by little.

I could support redoing 2A as long as it include the speedy execution of criminals. Not just 1st degree murder but any habitual offender. 3 strikes and you are focking out. Not in years or months. In a week max. You are gone.

[Cdub100 3,366]

I could support redoing 2A as long as it include the speedy execution of criminals. Not just 1st degree murder but any habitual offender. 3 strikes and you are focking out. Not in years or months. In a week max. You are gone.

 

You're okay with the government disarming the people just as long as that same government can execute those they deem to be criminals faster?

[IGotWorms 3,297]

Both sides have presented arguments, facts, skewed stats, real stats, the black, the white, etc.

 

No one has changed their mind.

 

Here's the fact though. Us gun owners, ya see...the law is on our side. We have guns. The law says we can. The 2nd Amendment says we can. They aren't going anywhere in our lifetime.

 

So, I guess, the anti-gun folk...I mean...hmmmmm...what are ya gonna do? Cry and whine? Stomp your feet? Grit your teeth? Post a link? Carry a sign? Think about...even after alllllllll that....all your b!tching and moaning.....it all went to waste. All of it.

 

The gun owners still win.

 

Wait...have ya tried pouting? How about the silent treatment? Maybe that'll work.

 

 

The First Amendment says you have freedom of speech but there are limitations on that too. And the second amendment is MUCH more amenable to limitation since the actual danger is apparent. I mean if you cant yell fire in a crowded theatre as a prank because people MIGHT get trampled, maybe you cant own an assault rifle because people could definitely get hurt

[Strike 3,934]

The First Amendment says you have freedom of speech but there are limitations on that too. And the second amendment is MUCH more amenable to limitation since the actual danger is apparent. I mean if you cant yell fire in a crowded theatre as a prank because people MIGHT get trampled, maybe you cant own an assault rifle because people could definitely get hurt

 

I'll say to you what I said to someone else in another thread. When the government restricts a right such as free speech, or guns in this case, it is up to the government to show just cause why such a restriction is warranted. These types of cases invariably end up at the SCOTUS. It's going to be hard to make a case for more restrictions when in so many cases we find out the incident wouldn't have even occurred but for lazy/incompetent law enforcement. I mean, are you disputing that there was lazy/incompetent law enforcement that allowed this most recent incident in Florida to occur?

[tanatastic 2,061]

About 5% of the Black male population is incarcerated, which is more than any other race. But the vast majority arent. How do we eliminate that pesky 5%?

Thats just the ones who got caught. Double it or even maybe more to get the number of criminals.

 

Thats enough to call it Bad apples spoiling the bunch.

[penultimatestraw 473]

That’s just the ones who got caught. Double it or even maybe more to get the number of “criminals”.

OK. How do we get rid of that pesky 10%?

[tanatastic 2,061]

OK. How do we get rid of that pesky 10%?

Cant get rid of it. America is built on a melting pot philosophy which is a blessing as well as a curse. Have to take the good with the bad.

 

Only solution is go back in time and prevent the slave trade from reaching America (it was very common all over the world and even still happens today). Thats what created this mess. It bred disdain and hatred into the whole race for generations to come.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Cant get rid of it. America is built on a melting pot philosophy which is a blessing as well as a curse. Have to take the good with the bad.

Agreed. So now maybe we can talk about things which can actually be changed?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,552]

OK. How do we get rid of that pesky 10%?

Actually, when you consider that the clearance rate for homocides in most of our urban killing fields is about 50% , you can imagine the amount of people, abundantly male blacks and hispanics, that are on the loose that are literally getting away with murder. Also, dsignating a case as cleared does not necessarily mean that a someone was actually arrested and or convicted.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Agreed. So now maybe we can talk about things which can actually be changed?

Start with a ban on certain types of weapons that have no place in society. Then make stricter gun regulations that prevent sadistic, troubled teenagers from buying AR15s like they are buying bubblegum at a gas station. There’s really only so much we can do before revolt over stripped 2nd amendment rights happens.

[Strike 3,934]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/us/jason-cazes-raising-age-limit-to-buy-gun-cnntv/index.html?sr=twCNN022018jason-cazes-raising-age-limit-to-buy-gun-cnntv0307PMVODtop

[parrot 789]

 

I'll say to you what I said to someone else in another thread. When the government restricts a right such as free speech, or guns in this case, it is up to the government to show just cause why such a restriction is warranted. These types of cases invariably end up at the SCOTUS.

 

How did the last federal assault weapons ban do in front of SCOTUS? What about current state bans? How are they faring in front of SCOTUS?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Start with a ban on certain types of weapons that have no place in society. Then make stricter gun regulations that prevent sadistic, troubled teenagers from buying AR15s like they are buying bubblegum at a gas station. There’s really only so much we can do before revolt over stripped 2nd amendment rights happens.

Sounds reasonable. As far as gun owners revolting, I doubt that will happen. They are a timid bunch, as evidenced by their need to surround themselves with weapons despite no demonstrable threat to their safety.

[Strike 3,934]

 

How did the last federal assault weapons ban do in front of SCOTUS? What about current state bans? How are they faring in front of SCOTUS?

 

Never made it to the SCOTUS from what I can tell. Bet it would now. From Wikipedia:

 

The federal assault weapons ban was never directly challenged under the Second Amendment. Since its expiration in 2004 there has been debate on how it would fare in light of cases decided in following years, especially District of Columbia v. Heller (2008)

[drobeski 3,061]

Both sides have presented arguments, facts, skewed stats, real stats, the black, the white, etc.

 

No one has changed their mind.

 

Here's the fact though. Us gun owners, ya see...the law is on our side. We have guns. The law says we can. The 2nd Amendment says we can. They aren't going anywhere in our lifetime.

 

So, I guess, the anti-gun folk...I mean...hmmmmm...what are ya gonna do? Cry and whine? Stomp your feet? Grit your teeth? Post a link? Carry a sign? Think about...even after alllllllll that....all your b!tching and moaning.....it all went to waste. All of it.

 

The gun owners still win.

 

Wait...have ya tried pouting? How about the silent treatment? Maybe that'll work.

 

 

kapow!

[parrot 789]

 

Never made it to the SCOTUS from what I can tell. Bet it would now. From Wikipedia:

 

 

What aren't state bans making it? Aren't the legal questions the same?

 

U.S. top court spurns challenge to Maryland assault weapons ban

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-guncontrol/u-s-top-court-spurns-challenge-to-maryland-assault-weapons-ban-idUSKBN1DR1SE

[Strike 3,934]

 

What aren't state bans making it? Aren't the legal questions the same?

 

U.S. top court spurns challenge to Maryland assault weapons ban

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-guncontrol/u-s-top-court-spurns-challenge-to-maryland-assault-weapons-ban-idUSKBN1DR1SE

 

Couldn't tell you. The SCOTUS can be pretty picky over which cases it takes up. Guarantee this gets there eventually, especially if the Feds pass a ban.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,563]

Woah, slow down a bit. Why are black homicides and all suicides unimportant in discussions about gun control?

 

I never said blacks were unimportant give it a rest, I just pulled numbers after I think Tantastic mentioned AA being a major problem with our numbers

 

suicides again, never proven that guns limit suicide rates, I'm tired of going over this time and again, I will never consider suicide rates in this discussion, and you never wont

[Hardcore troubadour 12,552]

Counting suicides is akin to counting someone who intentionally drives their car off a cliff in the safety rating of a vehicle. It's plain dumb.

[SenatorRock 708]

Surprise surprise. The woman who started the "secret facebook group" (what is this, fbg?) of angry emotional idiots, who think they will cause a change in the nation's gun laws by screaming at the sky, worked for the CNN for 17 years.

 

So a lady who has almost 2 decades with a propaganda fake news network organizes nationwide protests over gun laws, and this is all being promoted by the very same propaganda fake news network. And useful idiots will think this outrage is organic.

 

Literal Pravda.

 

Literal Commies.

 

http://archive.is/6T3ih

 

 

The faux outrage by these students and flamed by the MSM is insanity. I guess anything to distract from their absolute failure of a party, failure of the Mueller investigation, and failure of their #resistance.

 

Trump will win 400 EC votes in 2020 if they keep this up.

 

 

ETA: The "devastated" students when the CNN camera stopped rolling: https://i.redditmedia.com/ebR98NOjKC-eJAuDEggsCKzTjjqYNiDJhq117y6eO20.jpg?w=433&s=e1edae7bf1e994aa275f624eb5dc5177

[drobeski 3,061]

Surprise surprise. The woman who started the "secret facebook group" (what is this, fbg?) of angry emotional idiots, who think they will cause a change in the nation's gun laws by screaming at the sky, worked for the CNN for 17 years.

 

So a lady who has almost 2 decades with a propaganda fake news network organizes nationwide protests over gun laws, and this is all being promoted by the very same propaganda fake news network. And useful idiots will think this outrage is organic.

 

Literal Pravda.

 

Literal Commies.

 

http://archive.is/6T3ih

 

 

The faux outrage by these students and flamed by the MSM is insanity. I guess anything to distract from their absolute failure of a party, failure of the Mueller investigation, and failure of their #resistance.

 

Trump will win 400 EC votes in 2020 if they keep this up.

 

 

ETA: The "devastated" students when the CNN camera stopped rolling: https://i.redditmedia.com/ebR98NOjKC-eJAuDEggsCKzTjjqYNiDJhq117y6eO20.jpg?w=433

you gotta love that FBI kid they've been parading around, coaching up. Kids all over the place, last year in Cali.

It's almost like they know how stupid their audience is.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I never said blacks were unimportant give it a rest, I just pulled numbers after I think Tantastic mentioned AA being a major problem with our numbers

 

suicides again, never proven that guns limit suicide rates, I'm tired of going over this time and again, I will never consider suicide rates in this discussion, and you never wont

You suggested eliminating AA deaths when considering gun homicides, as if those deaths are inconsequential.

 

Guns promote both suicide and homicide, in the US and abroad. Ive posted at least a half dozen links to support those facts. And others showing more restrictive gun laws limit both. Its OK if you think your right to bear arms is more important, but dont misrepresent the data.

[jerryskids 5,151]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/us/jason-cazes-raising-age-limit-to-buy-gun-cnntv/index.html?sr=twCNN022018jason-cazes-raising-age-limit-to-buy-gun-cnntv0307PMVODtop

 

I like it, it is a start and hopefully others will follow suit.

[KSB2424 3,082]

I grew up hunting, I started in middle school and it was a way of life. My dad, brothers, and I would bird hunt 5-10 times a year and we took multiple elk hunting vacations to Jackson hole.

 

Hunting (and fishing) is how my family bonded growing up.

 

In college when I was poor I would bird hunt 40 days a year to help cut down on the cost of food.

 

 

I grew up around guns, spent time at the range, and have shot as many different types of guns as anyone on this forum save bls.

 

I do not think the semi auto rifle has a legitimate sporting or self defense use.

 

In hunting you should always make sure your first shot is lined up and will drop the animal. You should never plan on taking multiple shots. In the rare case that it becomes necessary a bolt action still works just as well.

 

In home defense a pump shotgun would be preferred.

 

I still to this day hunt with my family, we are planning a big trip next year. I would be the last person that wants to ban guns, but I think we are at a point in society where one specific type of gun is too good at killing large numbers of people without a legitimate other use.

Im from rural North Carolina. Most everyone I know owns a gun. I grew up hunting (dont anymore and havent in many years), but I grew up around shotguns and rifles.

 

I agree 100% with your post.

[Mungwater 588]

But if during this civil war Im allowed to talk to Katy Perry, can I take her to the movies and buy her snacks?

[IGotWorms 3,297]

 

Couldn't tell you. The SCOTUS can be pretty picky over which cases it takes up. Guarantee this gets there eventually, especially if the Feds pass a ban.

This isnt my area of expertise so I may be wrong. BUT I believe SCOTUS has indicated second amendment challenges are subject to rational basis review? If so, that is an exceedingly low hurdle. To give you an idea first amendment challenges based on content of speech are subject to strict scrutiny review. The word strict says it all there

[Mungwater 588]

This isnt my area of expertise so I may be wrong. BUT I believe SCOTUS has indicated second amendment challenges are subject to rational basis review? If so, that is an exceedingly low hurdle. To give you an idea first amendment challenges based on content of speech are subject to strict scrutiny review. The word strict says it all there

But can I take Katy perry to the movies

[IGotWorms 3,297]

But can I take Katy perry to the movies

Probably. She seems like one of those gals that isnt actually that attractive and knows it. Theyre easy

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,563]

Lol no you were scolded for cherry picking two states with few blacks in them. You asked for a reference and I gave you a link for numbers for every state, thats enough. No need to try again, you have been given the resources you asked for.

 

Whats your endgame in this abortion of an argument? Yes we need to work on our gun issues as a country and its not just about one race, I agree. We are yee haw pro gun in a lot of ways that makes us the joke of the civilized world when it comes to this issue for sure.

 

My point was that remove AA from the equation and it ripple effects all the way down reducing gun crime drastically. But its pointless to even say since theres no solution there, so it was just fluff.

 

 

You suggested eliminating AA deaths when considering gun homicides, as if those deaths are inconsequential.

 

Guns promote both suicide and homicide, in the US and abroad. Ive posted at least a half dozen links to support those facts. And others showing more restrictive gun laws limit both. Its OK if you think your right to bear arms is more important, but dont misrepresent the data.

 

I didn't suggest it, like I said I went off Tantasitics initial claim and followed it up with statistics support his statement, I never said they dont count or shouldnt count, I just said they were a major part of the problem

[bandrus1 413]

Here's a solution.....

 

Drain the swamp of Deep State Operatives pushing their NWO agenda.

Lol

[parrot 789]

This isnt my area of expertise so I may be wrong. BUT I believe SCOTUS has indicated second amendment challenges are subject to rational basis review? If so, that is an exceedingly low hurdle. To give you an idea first amendment challenges based on content of speech are subject to strict scrutiny review. The word strict says it all there

 

That would help explain why the previous ban never really saw any kind of serious 2nd Amendment challenge.

[KSB2424 3,082]

Regarding the 2nd Amendment. Couple things.

 

Quote from Thomas Jefferson that is actually on the Jefferson Memorial in D.C.

 

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors

 

1. Constitutional Amendments are not without ANY limits. For example the first amendment does not protect you from holding up porn images on a public street in front of an Elementary School. It doesn't protect you from the "yelling fire in a crowded theatre" example.

 

2. Our founding fathers were brilliant and set down really good base guidelines, but Thomas Jefferson's quote above is also him being forward thinking. Just let your mind go forward to 3D printers in the future and the possibility of any person "printing" weapons, any weapons at home.

 

3. Regarding the 2nd Amendment. "The right to bear arms". Unless you believe that means ALL arms, and the public should have the right to buy and own any "arm" the government has, then you are in fact for limiting the 2nd Amendment already. Unless you think Joe Public should have the right to go to a store and buy fully automatic weapons, rpg's or park a freakin' tank in their driveway then you believe in limiting the 2nd Amendment. Furthering that limitation to include more kinds of weapons / ammo is simply that.

[parrot 789]

Regarding the 2nd Amendment. Couple things.

 

Quote from Thomas Jefferson that is actually on the Jefferson Memorial in D.C.

 

 

1. Constitutional Amendments are not without ANY limits. For example the first amendment does not protect you from holding up porn images on a public street in front of an Elementary School. It doesn't protect you from the "yelling fire in a crowded theatre" example.

 

2. Our founding fathers were brilliant and set down really good base guidelines, but Thomas Jefferson's quote above is also him being forward thinking. Just let your mind go forward to 3D printers in the future and the possibility of any person "printing" weapons, any weapons at home.

 

3. Regarding the 2nd Amendment. "The right to bear arms". Unless you believe that means ALL arms, and the public should have the right to buy and own any "arm" the government has, then you are in fact for limiting the 2nd Amendment already. Unless you think Joe Public should have the right to go to a store and buy fully automatic weapons, rpg's or park a freakin' tank in their driveway then you believe in limiting the 2nd Amendment. Furthering those limitation is simply that.

 

[Baker Boy 1,474]

Family breakdown is the biggest issue America refuses to talk about

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/24/steve-hilton-family-breakdown-is-biggest-issue-america-refuses-to-talk-about.html

[jerryskids 5,151]

Family breakdown is the biggest issue America refuses to talk about

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/24/steve-hilton-family-breakdown-is-biggest-issue-america-refuses-to-talk-about.html

 

Great article.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Family breakdown is the biggest issue America refuses to talk about

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/24/steve-hilton-family-breakdown-is-biggest-issue-america-refuses-to-talk-about.html

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=475030&do=findComment&comment=6162840

[shorepatrol 1,734]

Family breakdown is the biggest issue America refuses to talk about

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/24/steve-hilton-family-breakdown-is-biggest-issue-america-refuses-to-talk-about.html

[frank 2,143]