Manziel

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

He was Danny Wuerffel bad, that's how bad he was yesterday.

 

And brace yourselves, that might just be how bad he really is.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

Tebow>Manziel. It is not even close.

 

Totally agree, by a good margin too.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

 

 

The Bengals had pressure all day on Manziel without blitzing, the O-line for the Browns is just not getting it done right now. This was very apparent in their inability to run the football. This isn't a new issue, it's been that way since Mack got hurt. The too small thing is just kind of silly at this point, maybe he is and maybe he isn't. We won't know until he gets the opportunity to play a few games. Guys like Brees and Wilson are around the same size and do just fine.

 

I'll let him play a few games before I make some sweeping judgement about him.

 

Sorry this isn't even close. The line has had issues but that was almost all Manziel yesterday, he didn't even know where to go half the time, I must have seen him turn the wrong way for the handoff at least a couple times. A QB can affect the energy on a whole team too because a team has to feel like their QB gives them a chance to win and will do everything possible to win, no one on the Browns offense, defense or special teams ever seemed to believe they had a chance with Manziel back there.

[JT 137]

 

 

The Bengals had pressure all day on Manziel without blitzing, the O-line for the Browns is just not getting it done right now. This was very apparent in their inability to run the football. This isn't a new issue, it's been that way since Mack got hurt. The too small thing is just kind of silly at this point, maybe he is and maybe he isn't. We won't know until he gets the opportunity to play a few games. Guys like Brees and Wilson are around the same size and do just fine.

 

I'll let him play a few games before I make some sweeping judgement about him.

 

Cincy is one of the worst pass rushing Ds in the league, and that same O-line kept Hoyer upright at a pace that's average for this year's starting QBs. I won't argue that their O-line isn't better when intact; that's one of the reasons you don't throw out an undersized, inexperienced rookie when you're still in the playoff chase, playing a division opponent at home.

 

Cincy didn't miraculously become a great defense. Manziel's deficiencies made them look like that. There is nothing about this guy that looks like an NFL QB. As noted by the above, he didn't even know the plays that he was running, from a very shortened playbook, after 20+ weeks of waiting for the opportunity.

[R8RMick 242]

 

I think they knew Johnny can't play in this league and i won't be surprise if this move was driven by someone up top.

 

Why else would they not give him the starting job despite Hoyer sucking it in preseason.

Why else would they not make the switch when Hoyer struggled for a number of games.

 

Yeah I hear you. We all know NFL GM's and owners aren't prone to making rat-f*ck decisions. I mean, unless somebody slaps Jerry Jones and snatches that card out of his hands this mess is in the Cowboy's laps. And for as bad as the situation is, it pales in comparison to the mess in Washington. But the Browns hadn't been eliminated from the playoffs yet, and the hearts of an entire city and organization were at stake. Now that stake is driven straight through those hearts. What a huge f*ck you. Pettine knew the score, what an ass hat. You know, for all the bright young minds out there, how they can keep these clowns like Pettine and Sparano et al in NFL head coaching positions is mind numbing.

 

I think my man Eric Davis summed it up best:

 

"Mike Pettine's decision to put him in is one of the worst coaching decisions of the last decade," Davis said. "You have a team that you said you put another guy, (Brian) Hoyer, in place because he was the guy that gave you the best chance to win. Your team is still in the hunt for a playoff spot, and you decide because of his play, that OK now as opposed to coaching this guy up who you said gave you the best chance, you're gonna blame it on him, pull him out and you put this guy in? Who you've been telling me all year long, you've been telling the press he's not ready, and you put him out there?

"That's why I said last week, if I were a veteran player on that team, I would have been upset, because you told me you quit on our season by putting him in. That's what you did. You quit on everything that we had done as a team, not Brian Hoyer, but what the team had done. That was a horrible coaching decision, so I can't blame it all on Johnny Manziel because Johnny Manziel wasn't ready to play. You know how I know? Mike Pettine told me so. That's how I know."

[R8RMick 242]

 

Cincy is one of the worst pass rushing Ds in the league, and that same O-line kept Hoyer upright at a pace that's average for this year's starting QBs. I won't argue that their O-line isn't better when intact; that's one of the reasons you don't throw out an undersized, inexperienced rookie when you're still in the playoff chase, playing a division opponent at home.

 

Cincy didn't miraculously become a great defense. Manziel's deficiencies made them look like that. There is nothing about this guy that looks like an NFL QB. As noted by the above, he didn't even know the plays that he was running, from a very shortened playbook, after 20+ weeks of waiting for the opportunity.

 

 

This.

 

The QB position in football makes ALL the difference, and affects every aspect of what transpires. It changes coverages, run defense schemes etc. The Def coordinator has so many more options going up against a rookie QB. Holy crap they're just lucky it wasn't a guy like Belichick on the sidelines across the field. When I saw they were starting Manziel I couldn't get Cincinnati penciled into my Fan Duel line up fast enough.

 

And this is besides the physical and maturity deficiencies of Manziel himself. This decision, if indeed made by the coach, should get him sent packing.

[SaintsInDome2006 128]

 

Yeah I hear you. We all know NFL GM's and owners aren't prone to making rat-f*ck decisions. I mean, unless somebody slaps Jerry Jones and snatches that card out of his hands this mess is in the Cowboy's laps. And for as bad as the situation is, it pales in comparison to the mess in Washington. But the Browns hadn't been eliminated from the playoffs yet, and the hearts of an entire city and organization were at stake. Now that stake is driven straight through those hearts. What a huge f*ck you. Pettine knew the score, what an ass hat. You know, for all the bright young minds out there, how they can keep these clowns like Pettine and Sparano et al in NFL head coaching positions is mind numbing.

 

I think my man Eric Davis summed it up best:

 

"Mike Pettine's decision to put him in is one of the worst coaching decisions of the last decade," Davis said. "You have a team that you said you put another guy, (Brian) Hoyer, in place because he was the guy that gave you the best chance to win. Your team is still in the hunt for a playoff spot, and you decide because of his play, that OK now as opposed to coaching this guy up who you said gave you the best chance, you're gonna blame it on him, pull him out and you put this guy in? Who you've been telling me all year long, you've been telling the press he's not ready, and you put him out there?

"That's why I said last week, if I were a veteran player on that team, I would have been upset, because you told me you quit on our season by putting him in. That's what you did. You quit on everything that we had done as a team, not Brian Hoyer, but what the team had done. That was a horrible coaching decision, so I can't blame it all on Johnny Manziel because Johnny Manziel wasn't ready to play. You know how I know? Mike Pettine told me so. That's how I know."

 

And that's how the Browns played, not just the offense but also the defense, flat, like they knew it wouldn't make any difference with Manziel in there.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

$$$$$$ \ O / $$$$$$

 

 

I hated him since the first time I saw him acting like Vanilla Ice. Go look in the mirror and buy a normal billed hat, you focking idiot.

[IMMensaMind 459]

$$$$$$ \ O / $$$$$$

 

 

I hated him since the first time I saw him acting like Vanilla Ice. Go look in the mirror and buy a normal billed hat, you focking idiot.

When I see him, I get the same urge to punch him in the face that I get when I see Jim Schwartz.

[JT 137]

$$$$$$ \ O / $$$$$$

 

 

I hated him since the first time I saw him acting like Vanilla Ice. Go look in the mirror and buy a normal billed hat, you focking idiot.

 

LOVED the Cincy defenders doing that stupid nonsense while he looked the fool.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

When I see him, I get the same urge to punch him in the face that I get when I see Jim Schwartz.

 

 

 

LOVED the Cincy defenders doing that stupid nonsense while he looked the fool.

 

[roroco 75]

I still think he would have been a better wit with the Cowboys. At least from a prime time drama/comedy standpoint.

[patweisers44 697]

Traded him and a draft pick for Peyton Manning after week 2 this year in a dynasty. Sorry, Edjr, but at least you have the draft pick to show for it.

[NewbieJr 540]

I can't think of another example where an athlete failed miserably and almost every person I know is happy about it. This guy is VERY widely hated.

[FeelingMN 273]

I'm no fan of Manziel. Forget all the histrionics....dude is just not a professional. Clearly was not prepared to be a starting NFL QB.

 

But.....what was Hoyer doing that gave them a chance to win? Didn't he have like a 1:8 TD/INT ratio the past month? Face it, Hoyer is awful and is not a franchise QB.

 

Manziel has been sheltered by the realities of football. He thinks he's the sh!t without ever really having to work his ass off. But it's probably evident to even him that he needs to work....really work his ass off to get better or he's out of a job in a year. Maybe the coaches punted on this season to show him that he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. And if he doesn't respond like a proud professional would, well the Browns found answers about their future QB and can start making plans to fix it sooner rather than later.

 

Maybe the dude just wasn't listening to the coaches, and they were like....alright, you're not going to listen to us, maybe listen to most of America tell you you're not as good as you think you are.

 

Starting Hoyer just to get to 8 wins is a loser's mentality. You're not making the playoffs with that guy and you're not building for the future. Better to get some answers about Manziel now rather than wait another year.

[JT 137]

I'm no fan of Manziel. Forget all the histrionics....dude is just not a professional. Clearly was not prepared to be a starting NFL QB.

 

But.....what was Hoyer doing that gave them a chance to win? Didn't he have like a 1:8 TD/INT ratio the past month? Face it, Hoyer is awful and is not a franchise QB.

 

Manziel has been sheltered by the realities of football. He thinks he's the sh!t without ever really having to work his ass off. But it's probably evident to even him that he needs to work....really work his ass off to get better or he's out of a job in a year. Maybe the coaches punted on this season to show him that he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. And if he doesn't respond like a proud professional would, well the Browns found answers about their future QB and can start making plans to fix it sooner rather than later.

 

Maybe the dude just wasn't listening to the coaches, and they were like....alright, you're not going to listen to us, maybe listen to most of America tell you you're not as good as you think you are.

 

Starting Hoyer just to get to 8 wins is a loser's mentality. You're not making the playoffs with that guy and you're not building for the future. Better to get some answers about Manziel now rather than wait another year.

 

They started Hoyer from Day 1 because they believed... and we don't have to guess at this... that he gave them a better chance to win. His performance as a game manager had done just that, thought he last few weeks he imploded. Still, they remained in the playoff race with a home game vs a team they had to beat. Would they have won with Hoyer? Nobody knows. They won some games with him they shouldn't have. But they still count as wins.

 

By starting Manziel yesterday they told the players that they had no idea what they were doing or what the team goals are. If your goal is to contend for the playoffs and one guy, a known quantity has shown that he can deliver wins, and the other guy has shown so little that you haven't even designed any packages for him while the starter floundered? You don't make that change.

 

Going forward, they have no choice but to play Manziel. I'm assuming they are officially out of the post-season now, so there's no advantage to Hoyer. Heck, had Cincy gone up 17-0 with Hoyer in there yesterday I'd have started the Manziel era at halftime. But the timing is indicative of a franchise that is not committed to what they've said they were committed to all season long.

 

ETA: Browns technically still in playoff contention... very technically...

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

I'm tending to believe they're giving the idiot fans what they want; regardless of the result. JFF helps the gate and it's ALL about the gate. People will buy tickets just to watch the dumpster fire and see JFF fail.

 

[R8RMick 242]

I'm no fan of Manziel. Forget all the histrionics....dude is just not a professional. Clearly was not prepared to be a starting NFL QB.

 

But.....what was Hoyer doing that gave them a chance to win? Didn't he have like a 1:8 TD/INT ratio the past month? Face it, Hoyer is awful and is not a franchise QB.

 

Manziel has been sheltered by the realities of football. He thinks he's the sh!t without ever really having to work his ass off. But it's probably evident to even him that he needs to work....really work his ass off to get better or he's out of a job in a year. Maybe the coaches punted on this season to show him that he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. And if he doesn't respond like a proud professional would, well the Browns found answers about their future QB and can start making plans to fix it sooner rather than later.

 

Maybe the dude just wasn't listening to the coaches, and they were like....alright, you're not going to listen to us, maybe listen to most of America tell you you're not as good as you think you are.

 

Starting Hoyer just to get to 8 wins is a loser's mentality. You're not making the playoffs with that guy and you're not building for the future. Better to get some answers about Manziel now rather than wait another year.

 

 

Respectfully I disagree. You just can't start rookies at quarterback in the NFL in this day and age. Best to give them AT LEAST a year holding the clipboard and let the game slow down for them. For certain, you have your exceptions. Your Elways, Marino's, Aikman's, and Mannings, and Luck in today's game. But even those great players struggled in year one. And nobody is putting Manziel in that class are they? The Browns supposedly had a plan. They had a choice, as at least Hoyer was upright and healthy. I would have rather seen Pettine do his job, perhaps scale down the playbook for Hoyer, rely on that running game they have, maybe look to manufacture some behind the LOS touches for Gordon ala Patterson last year. But this smacks of desperation.

 

Teams like the Raiders and Vikings were forced to play their rookie QBs due to injury, In Derek Carr's case I think they have a bona fide football player. Just saw a Football Life episode on Doug Flutie the other night on the NFL Channel, and it's remarkable the physical similarities between the two. But Flutie was a football player, while Manziel plays at football.

[tanatastic 2,061]

so many money signs from the cincy D. His whole career people will be mocking that dumb gesture. He really gave that fire some fuel on sunday. Just dreadful.

[Franknbeans 46]

But.....what was Hoyer doing that gave them a chance to win? Didn't he have like a 1:8 TD/INT ratio the past month? Face it, Hoyer is awful and is not a franchise QB.

 

and yet, he's light years ahead of Manziel. Another classic bad decision by the Browns.

[DaBeerz 88]

People who watched the game, specifically I want to know:

 

Was Manziel as bad as his stat line? I read the recap and they basically said he was throwing high all day, hence the picks.

 

1. How was his footwork?

 

2. Did he actually make any of his reads?

 

3. We're the interceptions entirely his fault? I heard one was a tipped ball on a pass that was high.

 

3. Any positives whatsoever?

 

I saw the body language gifs on the sideline, it didn't look good, he really comes across as an immature kid who needs to hold a clipboard for another year, I think he's a project and not ready for the NFL yet (if ever).

[NewbieJr 540]

His footwork was horrible. His five step drops were fifteen step drops because he was so scared that his feet were pitter-pattering.

 

He looked at his first read then tried to run. Just as he did in college.

 

Yes, the interceptions were his fault. First one was tipped, but he missed an open receiver with a high pass. The second was an ill-advised, across the body throw that floated. Arm strength is not professional level.

 

I saw 2 or 3 passes that looked good. One was to Gordon on a third down. There really was nothing positive though. Lowest QBR for a first time starter in the eight years they've been doing it. His QBR was a 1.

[RLLD 3,455]

I did enjoy them clowning him with the finger/money thing..... he more than had that crap coming.

[DaBeerz 88]

His footwork was horrible. His five step drops were fifteen step drops because he was so scared that his feet were pitter-pattering.

 

He looked at his first read then tried to run. Just as he did in college.

 

Yes, the interceptions were his fault. First one was tipped, but he missed an open receiver with a high pass. The second was an ill-advised, across the body throw that floated. Arm strength is not professional level.

 

I saw 2 or 3 passes that looked good. One was to Gordon on a third down. There really was nothing positive though. Lowest QBR for a first time starter in the eight years they've been doing it. His QBR was a 1.

 

Wow...I guess it was that bad.

 

I can't say I'm surprised though.

[Antiramie 50]

I'm baffled that anyone is surprised he fell on his face. Manziel is the poster boy for under-prepared, party monster, egotistical dooshnozzles. But...but...he has intangibles...

 

Being an "athlete" may work in college, but that alone ain't gonna cut it in the NFL when you have no brains and work ethic.

 

Watching him clown on the sideline with Hoyer after that horrific performance is exhibit A that the dude just doesn't give a rat's azz.

[DaBeerz 88]

I'm no fan of Manziel. Forget all the histrionics....dude is just not a professional. Clearly was not prepared to be a starting NFL QB.

 

But.....what was Hoyer doing that gave them a chance to win? Didn't he have like a 1:8 TD/INT ratio the past month? Face it, Hoyer is awful and is not a franchise QB.

 

Manziel has been sheltered by the realities of football. He thinks he's the sh!t without ever really having to work his ass off. But it's probably evident to even him that he needs to work....really work his ass off to get better or he's out of a job in a year. Maybe the coaches punted on this season to show him that he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. And if he doesn't respond like a proud professional would, well the Browns found answers about their future QB and can start making plans to fix it sooner rather than later.

 

Maybe the dude just wasn't listening to the coaches, and they were like....alright, you're not going to listen to us, maybe listen to most of America tell you you're not as good as you think you are.

 

Starting Hoyer just to get to 8 wins is a loser's mentality. You're not making the playoffs with that guy and you're not building for the future. Better to get some answers about Manziel now rather than wait another year.

 

Hoyer is bad but probably wouldn't have embarassed the franchise the way Manziel just did. I can't see the coaches having that mentality though, they just needed a spark and hoped Manziel could provide it.

 

I don't understand how JM can't know the playbook yet, that's all he should be doing is learning the plays, and they simplified it for him, and he still doesn't know that?

 

Now what, do you go back to Hoyer, or roll Manziel out and hope for some improvement?

[Antiramie 50]

I don't blame the coaches for starting Manziel either. Hoyer had 4 god-awful games in a row.

 

I blame Manziel for being a giant turd.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

But.....what was Hoyer doing that gave them a chance to win? Didn't he have like a 1:8 TD/INT ratio the past month? Face it, Hoyer is awful and is not a franchise QB.

 

He beat Cincy earlier in the season though. Worked then.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

Tom Brady chimes in on Johnny Manziel: 'If you're a turd, it's going to come back to you'

 

 

"I get pretty emotional," Brady said. " I have a lot of respect for ... my teammates, for my organization and certainly for other guys in the NFL. There's not a guy playing in the NFL who hasn't earned the right to be here, and who isn't supremely talented.

[Antiramie 50]

 

He beat Cincy earlier in the season though. Worked then.

 

Hasty generalization.

 

He had also played decent in the games leading up to that win. The four before yesterday, including 3 games with one of the best offensive weapons in football, 2 games against ATL & HOU's secondaries, and 1 against a team missing it's best defensive player (Vontae Davis), not so much...

 

I can see both sides of the argument. And obviously hindsight is 20/20. I know Pettine probably needed a spark, but then again Manziel was a dumpster fire waiting to happen.

[DaBeerz 88]

 

Cincy is one of the worst pass rushing Ds in the league, and that same O-line kept Hoyer upright at a pace that's average for this year's starting QBs. I won't argue that their O-line isn't better when intact; that's one of the reasons you don't throw out an undersized, inexperienced rookie when you're still in the playoff chase, playing a division opponent at home.

 

Cincy didn't miraculously become a great defense. Manziel's deficiencies made them look like that. There is nothing about this guy that looks like an NFL QB. As noted by the above, he didn't even know the plays that he was running, from a very shortened playbook, after 20+ weeks of waiting for the opportunity.

 

Which would seem to confirm the rumors about his shitty work ethic and study habits. He'll be washed out of the league in a few years if this keeps up.

[DaBeerz 88]

I can't think of another example where an athlete failed miserably and almost every person I know is happy about it. This guy is VERY widely hated.

 

It's the arrogance and people don't go for it. They want a QB who is somewhat humble and accountable for their mistakes. He may have been the BMOC in College, but now the pros don't respect him, neither do the fans.

[DaBeerz 88]

I'm tending to believe they're giving the idiot fans what they want; regardless of the result. JFF helps the gate and it's ALL about the gate. People will buy tickets just to watch the dumpster fire and see JFF fail.

 

 

That's a short term solution that will quickly wear thin, people pay more to see their team win.

 

Also Fans are bigger idiots than owners for the most part, imagine if they were running franchises, my god.

[FeelingMN 273]

Which would seem to confirm the rumors about his shitty work ethic and study habits. He'll be washed out of the league in a few years if this keeps up.

Exactly.

 

So your future franchise QB has a crappy work ethic. What are you gonna do? Sweep him under the Hoyer rug and pretend you're better off going into next year?

 

His performance on the field was pretty bad....at least that's what everyone is saying....and how hard is it to reach a consensus on anything these days. But his performance off the field was just as bad. That's something only he can fix, and you should see what kind of mental make up the kid has this week. If you don't see a marked improvement in some of his habits, then you have to question if he's your franchise QB. You can make that determination now. You don't have to wait and see.....you find out in the next month if this guy wants to be the face of your franchise.

 

Because to be a good QB isn't so much about what you can do on the field, it's how you handle your sh!t off it. If Manziel doesn't change his tune, then the Browns know better how to address the position this offseason.

[RLLD 3,455]

I am looking at this kid as a Ryan Leaf Lite, by the end of next year....KAAAABLOEEEEE

[NewbieJr 540]

This Manziel tool was asked to leave the Peyton Manning quarterback camp two years ago. Here's a college superstar getting a chance to show the best QBS in the world what they're all about, and he stays out late partying every night and shows up late and hungover. How that wasn't a big enough red flag to NFL owners, I have no idea.

[Flyfreak 84]

tebow was much better than manzier and look what happened to him

[Cruzer 1,992]

NewbieJr, on 15 Dec 2014 - 1:50 PM, said:

This Manziel tool was asked to leave the Peyton Manning quarterback camp two years ago. Here's a college superstar getting a chance to show the best QBS in the world what they're all about, and he stays out late partying every night and shows up late and hungover. How that wasn't a big enough red flag to NFL owners, I have no idea.

To 21 owners, it was.

[JT 137]

Exactly.

 

So your future franchise QB has a crappy work ethic. What are you gonna do? Sweep him under the Hoyer rug and pretend you're better off going into next year?

 

His performance on the field was pretty bad....at least that's what everyone is saying....and how hard is it to reach a consensus on anything these days. But his performance off the field was just as bad. That's something only he can fix, and you should see what kind of mental make up the kid has this week. If you don't see a marked improvement in some of his habits, then you have to question if he's your franchise QB. You can make that determination now. You don't have to wait and see.....you find out in the next month if this guy wants to be the face of your franchise.

 

Because to be a good QB isn't so much about what you can do on the field, it's how you handle your sh!t off it. If Manziel doesn't change his tune, then the Browns know better how to address the position this offseason.

 

There is zero chance that they cut him loose without at least another training camp, and almost as little chance that he demonstrates (in a couple weeks) that he is your franchise guy. It's virtually a given that Hoyer will be gone and Manziel will be there. The only question is who else is going to be competing fore the job. They aren't going to use a high draft pick on a QB out of this class, so it's just a matter of which veterans are being brought in to compete.

 

But this year... up until yesterday afternoon... you were still competing for a playoff spot and even a division championship. Lose yesterday and there are still two weeks to look at Manziel. Win and there is a solid reason to keep playing Hoyer and gear up the competition for training camp. They're not developing Hoyer or even projecting him as the guy going forward. Just trying to maximize what they have repeatedly said is their goal all season long.

[DaBeerz 88]

To 21 owners, it was.

 

I dunno what the Browns thought they would be able to do with Manziel.

 

I really wish Jerry had got his way and drafted him.