"Game of Thrones": Season 7...

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

GRRM has stated that the Westeros rules of succession are the same as the rules of succession for England's monarchy.

And to be fair, those "rules" are so muddy there were endless wars over them and Shakespeare made a killing off of it.

 

But, technically, Jon would be the rightful heir. The line of succession, from father to son, would be:

 

Aegon V

Aerys II, The mad King

Rhaegar (married Lyanna, older brother of Viserys and Daenerys)

John Snow (son of Rhaegar/Lyanna)

 

Dany would simply be the aunt of the King.

This is what I was getting at and forgot to mention the england part.

 

Still, as far as the show goes, I don't see how a family being removed from power during a revolt would leave them still having any rightful claims. IF You can't hold your position you lose your claim.... jmho. Unless you take it back of course, which is what Dany plans to do but the rhetoric this whole time has been that she is the rightful queen and has a birthright to the throne

[TD Ryan2 314]

Agreed... it's "muddy" - both Cdub and WhiteWonder make good points AGAINST Jon's claim:

 

1. An "annulled" marriage may not hold up or could be challenged

2. The Targaryens lost the throne and therefore their right to succession

 

 

I'm sure Westeros, like England, would continue to fight many bloody wars over all of this... and I'm sure the Geek Club would debate it to a pulp... and both would be foolish because the rules just aren't crystal clear and there is no perfect, right answer.

 

But to me, Jon is the best, cleanest, most true candidate based on these muddy rules - more than anyone, Jon fits the requirements.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Agreed... it's "muddy" - both Cdub and WhiteWonder make good points AGAINST Jon's claim:

 

1. An "annulled" marriage may not hold up or could be challenged

 

2. The Targaryens lost the throne and therefore their right to succession

 

 

I'm sure Westeros, like England, would continue to fight many bloody wars over all of this... and I'm sure the Geek Club would debate it to a pulp... and both would be foolish because the rules just aren't crystal clear and there is no perfect, right answer.

 

But to me, Jon is the best, cleanest, most true candidate based on these muddy rules - more than anyone, Jon fits the requirements.

Yes I agree on Jon.

[Cdub100 3,379]

Agreed... it's "muddy" - both Cdub and WhiteWonder make good points AGAINST Jon's claim:

 

1. An "annulled" marriage may not hold up or could be challenged

 

2. The Targaryens lost the throne and therefore their right to succession

 

 

I'm sure Westeros, like England, would continue to fight many bloody wars over all of this... and I'm sure the Geek Club would debate it to a pulp... and both would be foolish because the rules just aren't crystal clear and there is no perfect, right answer.

 

But to me, Jon is the best, cleanest, most true candidate based on these muddy rules - more than anyone, Jon fits the requirements.

We can agree to disagree. This is probably why so many wars have been fought IRL and GoT.

 

Even though I think Danny's claim is stronger I think Jon will win the game of thrones.

 

Good debate though and you guys brought some stuff to my attention I didn't realize. Thank you.

[edjr 5,552]

you people think too much

 

Jon will end up on the iron throne and right before the last episode ends, he will turn into the undead he really is

[TD Ryan2 314]

Cdub.

I get you point - and in the end, doesn't it really come down to this: whoever has the nukes is King?

The Dragons are clearly Dany's... she is a legit/unquestioned Targaryan, even if the Targaryens lost the right to succession, she's poised to take it right back.

 

To me the only way we really differ is in accepting an annulment... I accept it - to me it's clearly a part of "the rules"... the whole purpose of an annulment is to make it "official" or "legit according to the rules"... annulment, to me, isn't no "free parking" house rules thing... it's "if you pass Go, collect $200"... it's whole purpose is to make everything up to the rules standards, whe else have/get an annulment?

[edjr 5,552]

cdub is a thick headed neanderthal conservative.

 

you won't have much luck getting through

[TD Ryan2 314]

cdub is a thick headed neanderthal conservative.

 

you won't have much luck getting through

 

GRRMs whole setup is similar to HenryVIII and Anne Boleynn's story of a King who ran off, got married in secret, had an annulment (and a war with the Church), etc, etc, etc.

 

As much as I disagree with Cdub, he wouldn't be alone in thinking Jon is illegitimate b/c of the annulment.

 

And HenryVIII successor was Edward VII, a son from a wife not Anne Boleyn, who only lived a few short months, and then Queen Elizabeth !, the daughter of Henry and Anne.

 

So even in history, it's not clear... a legit son was named first heir... but then the daughter who resulted from an annulled marriage.

 

And that brings me even further to my claim that Jon would be the heir... if England's history of succession allowed a woman born from an annulled marriage to gain the throne (Elizabeth I).

 

And coincidentally, tidily - the reign of Elizabeth 1 is regarded as the golden age of England... it's when all the wars finally stopped and peace/prosperity was restored.

[edjr 5,552]

How about Edward II, does he have any claim?

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Cdub.

I get you point - and in the end, doesn't it really come down to this: whoever has the nukes is King?

The Dragons are clearly Dany's... she is a legit/unquestioned Targaryan, even if the Targaryens lost the right to succession, she's poised to take it right back.

 

To me the only way we really differ is in accepting an annulment... I accept it - to me it's clearly a part of "the rules"... the whole purpose of an annulment is to make it "official" or "legit according to the rules"... annulment, to me, isn't no "free parking" house rules thing... it's "if you pass Go, collect $200"... it's whole purpose is to make everything up to the rules standards, whe else have/get an annulment?

Danys nukes have accepted Jon and know who he is. If Dany bites it, the nukes will follow Jon

[TD Ryan2 314]

How about Edward II, does he have any claim?

 

he was the son of that ass whole Kiing Longshanks (from Braveheart)... and it was common knowledge that Piers Gavestone (aptly titled: The Earl of Cornwall) was Edward II's gay lover.

 

 

[edjr 5,552]

 

he was the son of that ass whole Kiing Longshanks (from Braveheart)... and it was common knowledge that Piers Gavestone (aptly titled: The Earl of Cornwall) was Edward II's gay lover.

 

 

 

[TD Ryan2 314]

 

 

thankfully, he was never referred to as edjr... nor was his kid edjrjr... so the wiki entries there are wide open for anyone looking to make a name for himself.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,618]

If Cersei has any brains she will relieve Jaime of his command. Let the Mercs run the show now. And better make another batch of wildfire.

[cbfalcon 824]

I think the whole thing is being set up to completely abandon the "heir to the throne" philosophy....

 

There has been a lot of emphasis on Dany being where she is because her followers have CHOSEN to follow her...From her speech to the unsullied and Tyrions narration as said unsullied took Casterly Rock, to hot ass Messandei's speech to Davos and Jon...........Then we've gotten plenty of emphasis on the people of the north CHOOSING Jon Snow in spite of his not having a claim, the wildlings CHOOSING to follow him, etc.

 

So yeah, Season 8 will obviously be Jon and Dani having debates, running political adds via posters and stuff, Jaimie Lannister making a choice and giving an endorsement, etc. The final episode will be election day.

 

Maybe I'm joking about my season 8 predictions, but I am somewhat serious about it ending up Jon or Dany and the people having a say.

[peenie 1,690]

Benjen is still alive

[Cdub100 3,379]

I think the whole thing is being set up to completely abandon the "heir to the throne" philosophy....

 

There has been a lot of emphasis on Dany being where she is because her followers have CHOSEN to follow her...From her speech to the unsullied and Tyrions narration as said unsullied took Casterly Rock, to hot ass Messandei's speech to Davos and Jon...........Then we've gotten plenty of emphasis on the people of the north CHOOSING Jon Snow in spite of his not having a claim, the wildlings CHOOSING to follow him, etc.

 

So yeah, Season 8 will obviously be Jon and Dani having debates, running political adds via posters and stuff, Jaimie Lannister making a choice and giving an endorsement, etc. The final episode will be election day.

 

Maybe I'm joking about my season 8 predictions, but I am somewhat serious about it ending up Jon or Dany and the people having a say.

I still think the two could hook up.

[peenie 1,690]

Gregor Clegane is still alive

[posty 2,296]

The leaked episode 7.06 from HBO Spain is in English with no subtitles...

 

Unfortunately the sound is not that great on the copies that I have seen...

[peenie 1,690]

Jon Snow of course is still alive

[porkbutt 861]

 

GRRMs whole setup is similar to HenryVIII and Anne Boleynn's story of a King who ran off, got married in secret, had an annulment (and a war with the Church), etc, etc, etc.

 

As much as I disagree with Cdub, he wouldn't be alone in thinking Jon is illegitimate b/c of the annulment.

 

And HenryVIII successor was Edward VII, a son from a wife not Anne Boleyn, who only lived a few short months, and then Queen Elizabeth !, the daughter of Henry and Anne.

 

So even in history, it's not clear... a legit son was named first heir... but then the daughter who resulted from an annulled marriage.

 

And that brings me even further to my claim that Jon would be the heir... if England's history of succession allowed a woman born from an annulled marriage to gain the throne (Elizabeth I).

 

And coincidentally, tidily - the reign of Elizabeth 1 is regarded as the golden age of England... it's when all the wars finally stopped and peace/prosperity was restored.

you guys are getting a bit carried away with your analysis of a fantasy tv show

[TD Ryan2 314]

peenie,

 

are they "alive" or undead?

Are the white walkers "alive"

 

I think the overall point of the list was to point out who has died... and "coming back from the dead" doesn't mean the character didn't die... and in the case of Jon and Gregor, they were killed right in front of us.

 

If Ned Stark is fighting with the White Walkers, do you consider that to mean he wasn't killed?

[porkbutt 861]

you people think too much

 

Jon will end up on the iron throne and right before the last episode ends, he will turn into the undead he really is

this is pretty good. did you come up with it? last scene he looks up from throne with blue eyeballs. roll credits.

[peenie 1,690]

@TD Fair enough

[edjr 5,552]

this is pretty good. did you come up with it? last scene he looks up from throne with blue eyeballs. roll credits.

 

Yup. On the spot.

[posty 2,296]

Just finished watching episode 7.06...

 

 

Going to be a lot of "I knew it", I would guess...

 

[mmmmm...beer 691]

Just finished watching episode 7.06...

 

 

Going to be a lot of "I knew it", I would guess...

 

Fooock u! Not clicking that joneo!

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Benjen is still alive

 

and he will be helping fight the whites on Sunday

[supermike80 1,285]

you people think too much

 

Jon will end up on the iron throne and right before the last episode ends, he will turn into the undead he really is

And then spinoff? HBO would be idiotic of they didn't create a spinoff.

 

With new (cheaper) actors and maybe no dragons.

Gotta pay jon snow though.

[posty 2,296]

Benjen is still alive

 

As of episode 7.05...

 

[tanatastic 2,061]

Holy god this is the best season of this show. Also just saw the leaked new episode, more epicness.

[posty 2,296]

Holy god this is the best season of this show. Also just saw the leaked new episode, more epicness.

Wait, you aren't complaining about how the characters get from one place to another in a split second that should take weeks?

 

That seems to be the bitching point for a lot of people...

 

Oh an I agree, this has been a really great season...

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Wait, you aren't complaining about how the characters get from one place to another in a split second that should take weeks?

 

That seems to be the bitching point for a lot of people...

 

Oh an I agree, this has been a really great season...

Coming from the king of negativity?

 

Sorry but the logistics are a reasonable thing to notice and go hand in hand with the larger complaint which is that they are now cramming everything into 13 episodes versus the snails pace of the first 60

[posty 2,296]

Coming from the king of negativity?

 

Sorry but the logistics are a reasonable thing to notice and go hand in hand with the larger complaint which is that they are now cramming everything into 13 episodes versus the snails pace of the first 60

They don't come on and say that this episode takes place over a three day span... I think that "cramming" things in has made the episodes exciting from start to finish (except for the first meeting between Jon and Dany that took for freaking ever...) But hey, if you want to watch half an episode of them rowing in the water or walking across from Winterfell to Kings Landing, go ahead...

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

They don't come on and say that this episode takes place over a three day span... I think that "cramming" things in has made the episodes exciting from start to finish (except for the first meeting between Jon and Dany that took for freaking ever...) But hey, if you want to watch half an episode of them rowing in the water or walking across from Winterfell to Kings Landing, go ahead...

I think it's jarring because the pace is so different than it was. If they had picked a pace and stuck with it it wouldnt matter.

[posty 2,296]

I think it's jarring because the pace is so different than it was. If they had picked a pace and stuck with it it wouldnt matter.

Makes sense... I guess I am one of the few that likes the new pace...

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Makes sense... I guess I am one of the few that likes the new pace...

I think the sweet spot would be a little slower than now, but a lot faster than the first few seasons.

 

But it's fine. I just really hope we get a good ending.

[posty 2,296]

I just really hope we get a good ending.

Ditto

[cbfalcon 824]

The sweet spot would be...

 

Allow 1,000s of miles of travel to take place in an instant. Who cares about travel?

 

But when characters interact, they need to slow it back down to the pace of previous seasons. The biggest example is Tyrian and Jaimie meeting up. They had a lot to talk about and it would have been emotional. Basically that's a pay off scene for us. I wanted to see it. Instead we got 45 seconds and we just assume the impactful moments did or didn't happen i guess.

[tanatastic 2,061]

I love the pace, it's necessary for a shortened season. Even if it's silly with all the fast travel. Quick, lets mobilize this army and move them hundreds (more?) of miles on foot with little food and water, then back again! Oh and these ravens are silly too, they are practically emails. These birds sure are obedient, flying exactly where they need to go.

 

But I absolutely love that we are getting quick payoff for things we have waited years for. In seasons past it would be an entire 10 episodes setting up Jon meeting Dany with the final episode him finally pulling up to the shore.