Another school shooting. Houston

[jerryskids 5,172]

Not sure what your talking about. Which post? All I recall was somebody mentioning Japan, which is big outlier for suicides.

 

As far as gun deaths go, we dont know whether they would occur in the absence of firearms, but we know guns make killing much easier. At a state and national level, where guns are, increased death results. Meanwhile increased gun restrictions are associated with decreased deaths. How do you interpret those findings?

 

Read the Scientific American article Jerry (post 441) It lists the seminal articles supporting gun control. The preponderance of evidence supports what Ive been saying repeatedly in these gun threads. Id love to hear how you dismiss their findings. TIA.

 

ETA I found your post about suicide. I never said gun ownership was the only predictor of suicide, but it definitely increases the risk of completed suicide. Factors like poverty and population density are also big contributors. Here is the US map comparing gun ownership and suicide rate: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/spr08gunprevalence/

 

ETA2 I also responded to your suicide map long ago, right after you originally posted it.

 

There certainly does seem to be some correlation, although as your article shows, that doesn't show causation. For instance, a ranking of violent crimes by state doesn't appear to correlate, other than Alaska is a miserable place:

 

https://lawstreetmedia.com/blogs/crime/americas-safest-dangerous-states-2017/50/

 

Note that Vermont is the safest state, and also low gun ownership, hmm good correlation. Are there any other statistics we can look at? How about the ethnicity of Vermont?

 

White: 94.1%

Hispanic: 1.5%

Black: 1.0%

 

https://statisticalatlas.com/state/Vermont/Race-and-Ethnicity

 

 

That being said, I will concede that while people can and do find other ways to off themselves in other countries, it does appear that guns make it easier here in the US of A.

[penultimatestraw 473]

There certainly does seem to be some correlation, although as your article shows, that doesn't show causation. For instance, a ranking of violent crimes by state doesn't appear to correlate, other than Alaska is a miserable place:

 

https://lawstreetmedia.com/blogs/crime/americas-safest-dangerous-states-2017/50/

 

Note that Vermont is the safest state, and also low gun ownership, hmm good correlation. Are there any other statistics we can look at? How about the ethnicity of Vermont?

 

White: 94.1%

Hispanic: 1.5%

Black: 1.0%

 

https://statisticalatlas.com/state/Vermont/Race-and-Ethnicity

 

 

That being said, I will concede that while people can and do find other ways to off themselves in other countries, it does appear that guns make it easier here in the US of A.

I’m not discounting violent crime among African Americans, but the three most violent states in your link don’t have a high % of AA. Why do you so quickly conclude gun abundance isn’t playing a role?

[wiffleball 4,631]

think I can make it to Vermont on a tank of gas?

[jerryskids 5,172]

I’m not discounting violent crime among African Americans, but the three most violent states in your link don’t have a high % of AA. Why do you so quickly conclude gun abundance isn’t playing a role?

 

Eh, Nevada is 10% black and 28% hispanic:

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/NV

 

New Mexico has significantly more Hispanics than non-Hispanic whites:

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/NM

 

My point is that we can find statistics to fit our message. NV has a huge concentration of people in Vegas where there are a lot of poor and degenerate gambler types looking for money. NM has a crappy economy. Interestingly, neither state is high on your gun prevalance link: NV is 37 and NM is 29. As a refresher:

 

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/spr08gunprevalence/

 

And the correlation fails to hold throughout most of the list, for "violent crimes." This is why I tell you that you are disingenuous when you change the discussion to "gun violence." It seems crackattack and maybe TBBOM have drunk your koolaid. They certainly feel proud of themselves in their uber complex analysis of the situation.

[wiffleball 4,631]

So, it's solved then?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Eh, Nevada is 10% black and 28% hispanic:

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/NV

 

New Mexico has significantly more Hispanics than non-Hispanic whites:

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/NM

 

My point is that we can find statistics to fit our message. NV has a huge concentration of people in Vegas where there are a lot of poor and degenerate gambler types looking for money. NM has a crappy economy. Interestingly, neither state is high on your gun prevalance link: NV is 37 and NM is 29. As a refresher:

 

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/spr08gunprevalence/

 

And the correlation fails to hold throughout most of the list, for "violent crimes." This is why I tell you that you are disingenuous when you change the discussion to "gun violence." It seems crackattack and maybe TBBOM have drunk your koolaid. They certainly feel proud of themselves in their uber complex analysis of the situation.

You didnt answer my question. Why are you so quick to dismiss widespread gun availability playing a role?

 

What did you think of the Scientific American article?

[frank 2,144]

Some of our founding fathers would roll over in their grave (imo) if they were alive today.

[shorepatrol 1,736]

[jerryskids 5,172]

You didnt answer my question. Why are you so quick to dismiss widespread gun availability playing a role?

 

What did you think of the Scientific American article?

 

I not only answered you but provided data and links that showed that gun availability is not strongly correlated to violent crimes.

 

I'm done answering your questions, your turn to respond to my post.

[crackattack 513]

Well played

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

Eh, Nevada is 10% black and 28% hispanic:

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/NV

 

New Mexico has significantly more Hispanics than non-Hispanic whites:

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/NM

 

My point is that we can find statistics to fit our message. NV has a huge concentration of people in Vegas where there are a lot of poor and degenerate gambler types looking for money. NM has a crappy economy. Interestingly, neither state is high on your gun prevalance link: NV is 37 and NM is 29. As a refresher:

 

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/spr08gunprevalence/

 

And the correlation fails to hold throughout most of the list, for "violent crimes." This is why I tell you that you are disingenuous when you change the discussion to "gun violence." It seems crackattack and maybe TBBOM have drunk your koolaid. They certainly feel proud of themselves in their uber complex analysis of the situation.

You dont like Uber complex analysis? Then lets keep it simple.

 

More deadly weapons = more death.

 

That simple. Stats all around the world show it plain as day.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,594]

You dont like Uber complex analysis? Then lets keep it simple.

 

More deadly weapons = more death.

 

That simple. Stats all around the world show it plain as day.

There are other factors. That analysis while not completely inaccurate, is leaving out many other factors, and one huge one.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I not only answered you but provided data and links that showed that gun availability is not strongly correlated to violent crimes.

 

I'm done answering your questions, your turn to respond to my post.

No, you said there was a correlation, then suggested race was also a factor. You said nothing about the strength of the correlation. And you poo-pooed using statistics to prove any point. In any event, I dont know what response you want from me - I already addressed your posts.

 

And its clear you didnt read the article I posted, nor are you interested in considering the possibility guns play any role other than expressing ones constitutional rights.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

There are other factors. That analysis while not completely inaccurate, is leaving out many other factors, and one huge one.

And what factor would that be?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,594]

And what factor would that be?

Take a wild guess.

[shorepatrol 1,736]

 

Don't care

That simple.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Take a wild guess.

More importantly, which factors are modifiable?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,594]

More importantly, which factors are modifiable?

Removing violent criminals from society is one modifiable factor. But the results of that aren't acceptable to liberals, so the slaughter continues. But hey, there are less members of protected groups in prison, and that makes liberals feel good, which is the important thing here.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Removing violent criminals from society is one modifiable factor. But the results of that aren't acceptable to liberals, so the slaughter continues. But hey, there are less members of protected groups in prison, and that makes liberals feel good, which is the important thing here.

Yeah, I figured youd go with the race factor.

 

That factor would be a whole lot less dangerous if they were doing their hits with a machete, rather than a drive by with a Mac 10.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,594]

Yeah, I figured youd go with the race factor.

 

That factor would be a whole lot less dangerous if they were doing their hits with a machete, rather than a drive by with a Mac 10.

Of course. I ceded the availability of guns was a factor. I just said there are other factors. Unfortunately, anti gun advocates won't see the big picture and focus only on the guns or the poverty lie. They won't cede anything. Lurking in the back of all this is that its whiteys fault. Whiteys gun laws and whiteys oppression. Not a lick of accountability from the community that takes the brunt of the gun violence, carried out by members of the same community. There is no shortage of guns in my community. There is almost zero gun violence.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Of course. I ceded the availability of guns was a factor. I just said there are other factors. Unfortunately, anti gun advocates won't see the big picture and focus only on the guns or the poverty lie. They won't cede anything. Lurking in the back of all this is that its whiteys fault. Whiteys gun laws and whiteys oppression. Not a lick of accountability from the community that takes the brunt of the gun violence, carried out by members of the same community. There is no shortage of guns in my community. There is almost zero gun violence.

Id say the opposite is more true.

 

Every country on earth has poverty. America has less of it than most.

 

Many countries have racial minorities.

 

Not every country has high rates of gun violence.

 

Because not every country has ridiculously accessible guns.

[wiffleball 4,631]

That's where you're wrong. The United States has one major disadvantage that literally not another country on the globe has.

 

African Americans.

 

 

 

Black folks are nothin like AA's. Even Trevor Noah asserts that much.

[tanatastic 2,061]

That's where you're wrong. The United States has one major disadvantage that literally not another country on the globe has.

African Americans.

Black folks are nothin like AA's. Even Trevor Noah asserts that much.

It really is sad but true, I swear I’m not racist I just understand facts. They bring down property values and raise crime rates. They make up a startling % of the crime, gun violence and prisoner numbers. They claim it’s so terrible here but are treated better in the USA than anywhere else, look into it. You think people are racist here? Hooo boy you ain’t seen nothin.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

You dont like Uber complex analysis? Then lets keep it simple.

 

More deadly weapons = more death.

 

That simple. Stats all around the world show it plain as day.

 

here is a question, I own 17 firearms, how much more likely am I to die by them than if I owned 16.

 

answer. ZERO %