Montana Brady Manning

[phan a tic 6]

None of these QBs were my team's QB. None I ever rooted for nor against. But I was thinking about systems and head coaches and such.

Brady has run the same offense under the same genius head coach surely hall of famer Bill Belicheck, his entire career in Boston.

Montana has had legendary hall of fame head coach Bill Walsh and his west coast offense all his super bowl San Fran years with only 1-2 in KC that were fizzelers.

Manning on the other hand has played significantly in 2 different cities for 2 different teams under 4 different head coaches, none who are considered legendary nor genius. Maybe not even hall of fame. Manning pretty much was his own offensive coordinator.

Is this something to consider in rating GQBOAT?

[tanatastic 2,061]

It is something to consider, especially since Manning is the only one to ever win with different teams. It moves the needle for sure and it shows ability to elevate your team all by yourself.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

None of these QBs were my team's QB. None I ever rooted for nor against. But I was thinking about systems and head coaches and such.

Brady has run the same offense under the same genius head coach surely hall of famer Bill Belicheck, his entire career in Boston.

Montana has had legendary hall of fame head coach Bill Walsh and his west coast offense all his super bowl San Fran years with only 1-2 in KC that were fizzelers.

Manning on the other hand has played significantly in 2 different cities for 2 different teams under 4 different head coaches, none who are considered legendary nor genius. Maybe not even hall of fame. Manning pretty much was his own offensive coordinator.

Is this something to consider in rating GQBOAT?

Not sure if you get the news in prison, but Tony Dungy was elected to the Pro Football HoF.

[Bier Meister 1,512]

while i still believe that manning is GOAT, try not to forget that montana brought a mediocre kc team to the afc championship game..... we almost got to see montana vs young matchup in the SB that year.

 

 

edit: i would have liked to have seen montana with those SF teams that young inherited.

[phan a tic 6]

Not sure if you get the news in prison, but Tony Dungy was elected to the Pro Football HoF.

Oh. Sorry. That changes everything.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Not sure if you get the news in prison, but Tony Dungy was elected to the Pro Football HoF.

Both he and Marvin owe that HoF to Manning and they both know it. Its support for mannings argument, not the knock it was intended to be. Note that I absolutely dont rank manning no.1, but he has moved into the top 3.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Montana > Manning > Brady

 

 

Someone beat me to it but Montana almost took KC to the Super Bowl in.... 93/94. However it would not have pitted Montana against Young. That was the 94/95 season. the NFC winner in 93/94 was Dallas.

 

 

Manning made some great weapons but had some of his own. Faulk ... James ... Addai Harrison.... Wayne + Clark... he made guys like Brandon Stokely and Tamme into relevant FF names, had a HOF coach and got obliterated in Super Bowl 48. Montana and Brady were never crushed in a Super bowl the way Manning was and never put up as bad a personal performance in a win as Manning did this past Sunday.

 

Another reason i give the nod to Montana is that he didn't play in the same era that Manning and Brady played in their primes where each year has sifted more and more to easiness on passing offense in particular.

 

As for Brady, he has had the benefit of Randy Moss and Gronk, besides that he has done a lot with underdog type offensive weapons. Has a HOF coach himself but almost every SB win has been clouded in controversy and many could argue that Adam vinatieri was more instrumental in 2 of those titles than Brady himself.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

at this thread

 

That defense won the SB while Manning was along for the ride. Its Brady #1. I used to be on the Peyton bandwagon but he just isnt as good as Brady.

[southcarolina 166]

None of these QBs were my team's QB. None I ever rooted for nor against. But I was thinking about systems and head coaches and such.

Brady has run the same offense under the same genius head coach surely hall of famer Bill Belicheck, his entire career in Boston.

Montana has had legendary hall of fame head coach Bill Walsh and his west coast offense all his super bowl San Fran years with only 1-2 in KC that were fizzelers.

Manning on the other hand has played significantly in 2 different cities for 2 different teams under 4 different head coaches, none who are considered legendary nor genius. Maybe not even hall of fame. Manning pretty much was his own offensive coordinator.

Is this something to consider in rating GQBOAT?

George Seifert was the head coach in Montana's last SB.

[southcarolina 166]

Also holding it against Brady that he hasnt taken a second team to the SB in the twilight of his career isnt fair, since he hasnt gotten to the twilight of his career yet.

[cbfalcon 824]

It is something to consider, especially since Manning is the only one to ever win with different teams. It moves the needle for sure and it shows ability to elevate your team all by yourself.

Yes, Manning "elevated Denver all by himself"....by being the worst QB in the league this year, and the worst of all time to start a super bowl.

 

And its definitely a huge mark against Brady that unlike Manning and Montana, Brady's franchise has never decided they could replace him with someone better. If he were of Montana or Manning's greatness, he'd have sucked a bit worse.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Yes, Manning "elevated Denver all by himself"....by being the worst QB in the league this year, and the worst of all time to start a super bowl.

 

And its definitely a huge mark against Brady that unlike Manning and Montana, Brady's franchise has never decided they could replace him with someone better. If he were of Montana or Manning's greatness, he'd have sucked a bit worse.

 

actually, manning certainly did elevate the Broncos from the time he got there until this season. How much of a trickle down effect he had on other moves the franchise made to make sure they were contenders in his final seasons is up for debate. Without what Manning did for that offense do they bring in Sanders? Ware? Talib? among others. From the moment Peyton got there, the Broncos were all in. So regardless of his personal impact on this 2015/16 season (and you can bet he still had a mental and emotional impact), there is no denying his being there elevated the entire franchise the past, what, 4 seasons?

[Bier Meister 1,512]

Montana > Manning > Brady

 

 

Someone beat me to it but Montana almost took KC to the Super Bowl in.... 93/94. However it would not have pitted Montana against Young. That was the 94/95 season. the NFC winner in 93/94 was Dallas.

 

my reference was strictly related to both teams going to their respective championship games that year

 

 

Manning made some great weapons but had some of his own. Faulk ... James ... Addai Harrison.... Wayne + Clark... he made guys like Brandon Stokely and Tamme into relevant FF names, had a HOF coach and got obliterated in Super Bowl 48. Montana and Brady were never crushed in a Super bowl the way Manning was and never put up as bad a personal performance in a win as Manning did this past Sunday.

 

I thought manning has almost always had excellent talent on the offensive side of the ball. while he has had some disastrous games in the playoffs, his defense was often porous and forced the team to attempt to pass/score vs game/clock manage with james. early in brady's career the pats did not have to score many offensive points to win games.

 

Another reason i give the nod to Montana is that he didn't play in the same era that Manning and Brady played in their primes where each year has sifted more and more to easiness on passing offense in particular.

 

As for Brady, he has had the benefit of Randy Moss and Gronk, besides that he has done a lot with underdog type offensive weapons. Has a HOF coach himself but almost every SB win has been clouded in controversy and many could argue that Adam vinatieri was more instrumental in 2 of those titles than Brady himself.

[Kopy 489]

None of these QBs were my team's QB. None I ever rooted for nor against. But I was thinking about systems and head coaches and such.

Brady has run the same offense under the same genius head coach surely hall of famer Bill Belicheck, his entire career in Boston.

Montana has had legendary hall of fame head coach Bill Walsh and his west coast offense all his super bowl San Fran years with only 1-2 in KC that were fizzelers.

Manning on the other hand has played significantly in 2 different cities for 2 different teams under 4 different head coaches, none who are considered legendary nor genius. Maybe not even hall of fame. Manning pretty much was his own offensive coordinator.

Is this something to consider in rating GQBOAT?

I'm still in the camp that Brady and Vinatieri made Belicheck, and not the other way around.

[mighty_thor 115]

I'm still in the camp that Brady and Vinatieri made Belicheck, and not the other way around.

Vinatieri? seriously? He made some clutch kicks in the 2001 playoffs but that was one year. He gets a lot of credit for kicking the game winner against Carolina in the Super Bowl but he was 1 for 3 in that super bowl with a missed a 31 yard kick and had a 36 yard kick blocked. The other super bowl he won with Belichick he kicked one 22 yard field goal. Plenty of Patriots were more important than Vinateiri.

[KSB2424 3,082]

Obviously context and nuance matter.....normally.

 

But in the "Greatest QB of all time" conversation it doesn't seem too historically. Tom Brady was bailed out by Adam Vinetari (or other clutch FG kicking) and the tuck rule several times. At least one of his SB wins he was well below average and more of a simple game manger on par with Trent Dilfer.

 

But we always said "Look at the Rings@#!"

 

Dan Marino can't be considered because "Look at the Rings!@#!"

 

So which is it? I don't care but lets be consistent.

[southcarolina 166]

Vinatieri? seriously? He made some clutch kicks in the 2001 playoffs but that was one year. He gets a lot of credit for kicking the game winner against Carolina in the Super Bowl but he was 1 for 3 in that super bowl with a missed a 31 yard kick and had a 36 yard kick blocked. The other super bowl he won with Belichick he kicked one 22 yard field goal. Plenty of Patriots were more important than Vinateiri.

His best kick was the one against the Raiders in the snow.

 

But he doesnt get to kick any of them if Brady doesnt get him in position.

[nzoner 936]

at this thread

 

That defense won the SB while Manning was along for the ride. Its Brady #1. I used to be on the Peyton bandwagon but he just isnt as good as Brady.

Let's not forget Manning's first SB win,4 games played that post season and he had 3 total td's with 7 INT's.

[edjr 5,547]

It is something to consider, especially since Manning is the only one to ever win with different teams. It moves the needle for sure and it shows ability to elevate your team all by yourself.

Not even Rex Grossman would have lost the game for the Broncos Sunday

[edjr 5,547]

Had Denver beat Seattle, this would be an entire different conversation.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

Obviously context and nuance matter.....normally.

 

But in the "Greatest QB of all time" conversation it doesn't seem too historically. Tom Brady was bailed out by Adam Vinetari (or other clutch FG kicking) and the tuck rule several times. At least one of his SB wins he was well below average and more of a simple game manger on par with Trent Dilfer.

 

But we always said "Look at the Rings@#!"

 

Dan Marino can't be considered because "Look at the Rings!@#!"

 

So which is it? I don't care but lets be consistent.

Dumb. Brady is the greatest playoff QB of all time according to stats and pretty much any other measurement. Only real argument over him is Joe Montana.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

Had Denver beat Seattle, this would be an entire different conversation.

Instead they lost 92-3

[southcarolina 166]

at this thread

 

That defense won the SB while Manning was along for the ride. Its Brady #1. I used to be on the Peyton bandwagon but he just isnt as good as Brady.

At least in Brady's first SB he led the team on 4th quarter game winning drive. His overall game may not have been anything special, but at least theres that. All Peyton did on Sunday was run clock the entire game. 13 completions. 140 yards. 1 for 14 on third downs. Pitiful.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

At least in Brady's first SB he led the team on 4th quarter game winning drive. His overall game may not have been anything special, but at least theres that. All Peyton did on Sunday was run clock the entire game. 13 completions. 140 yards. 1 for 14 on third downs. Pitiful.

Brady's first super bowl was his first year of playing. I think we can forgive him for not throwing for 300/4.

[drobeski 3,061]

Obviously context and nuance matter.....normally.

 

But in the "Greatest QB of all time" conversation it doesn't seem too historically. Tom Brady was bailed out by Adam Vinetari (or other clutch FG kicking) and the tuck rule several times. At least one of his SB wins he was well below average and more of a simple game manger on par with Trent Dilfer.

 

But we always said "Look at the Rings@#!"

 

Dan Marino can't be considered because "Look at the Rings!@#!"

 

So which is it? I don't care but lets be consistent.

who put viniteri in position to kick those kicks ? Brady is clutch. In all 6 of his super bowls thats right 6 he drove his team to a lead with under 4 minutes or less, not even sure but its sick his clutchness nobody comes close ...and that's what it's about. How you perform under pressure....Manning doesnt have it, Montana had a little of it.

[KSB2424 3,082]

Dumb. Brady is the greatest playoff QB of all time according to stats and pretty much any other measurement. Only real argument over him is Joe Montana.

 

That's not my point.

 

Personally if I was going through this exercise I would have Tom Brady ranked over Peyton Manning. You get no argument from me.

 

My point was that a lot of people put TO MUCH emphasis on Super Bowl rings without any context or nuance. Does the exact number of rings matter? Of course but its not the end all be all people say it is. Football is the ultimate team sport for crying out loud.

 

Tom Brady's first SuperBowl he threw for what 140 yards?

 

We can't give Brady all the credit on that one and somehow try to write off Manning's last one as if it shouldn't count is my point.

 

Let's be consistent. And being consistent I think Brady > Manning. But its close and both are on the Mt.Rushmore of QB's.

[nzoner 936]

As a KC fan Montana's presence here was invaluable and if not for the concussion in the AFC Championship game who knows what might have been.I do know that '94 MNF game in Denver vs. Elway is still one of the greatest games ever played.

[southcarolina 166]

Brady's first super bowl was his first year of playing. I think we can forgive him for not throwing for 300/4.

I never held it against him. A win is a win.

 

 

I still remember what it feels like to have to root for Tony Eason.

 

 

:shudder:

[TD Ryan2 314]

why so quick to judge?

 

the Colts, the Steelers, the Ravens, and now the Broncos... they all rise and fall under the watch of Tom Brady - TB12 is the only constant - for 15 years, he and NE have set the standard of winning and excellence and he is not done yet.

 

You HATE TB12- you BOO him at NFL ceremonies yet even with all that loathing you still can't deny he's "among" GOAT, which means if your "binkie" HGH17 had Brady's accomplishments, the debate would be over.

 

The guy you don't like is substantially ahead and still going.

The guy you like limped to the end and made a slight dent in the gap.

 

 

I remember when everyone hated Gretzky - that's what happens I guess. It's a flaw in human psychology - redirected self-loathing when faced with others' immense success. If PlayStation Madden could make Brady's head bleed, you'd all rather do that than actually winning against him - it's exactly what happened with Gretzky.

[edjr 5,547]

mario lemieux was better

[TD Ryan2 314]

mario lemieux was better

yeah - and everyone besides the Penguins hated him too.

[edjr 5,547]

yeah - and everyone besides the Penguins hated him too.

 

and me

[FeelingMN 273]

All Peyton did on Sunday was run clock the entire game. 13 completions. 140 yards. 1 for 14 on third downs. Pitiful.

 

I never held it against him. A win is a win.

 

 

[IGotWorms 3,297]

 

 

 

Seems you deliberately missed the point of his posts

[tanatastic 2,061]

who put viniteri in position to kick those kicks ?

Kasay kicking it outof bounds inexplicably. Refs making up the tuck rule in the raider game. Lots of people other than Brady really.

[KSB2424 3,082]

Seems you deliberately missed the point of his posts

 

I just read through it again. His point is clear.

 

A win is a win!@#!

 

Except when <insert whatever parameter he wants to put in that fits his personal bias>. Then a win is .....not a win.

[drobeski 3,061]

Kasay kicking it outof bounds inexplicably. Refs making up the tuck rule in the raider game. Lots of people other than Brady really.

wow that happened in all 6 super bowls ...amazing, you learn something new everyday.

If only the raiders had the lead after the tuck rule. Boy they sure got focked there

[edjr 5,547]

wow that happened in all 6 super bowls ...amazing, you learn something new everyday.

If only the raiders had the lead after the tuck rule. Boy they sure got focked there

 

Tuck rule ended the game, last play, win for the Patriots.

[Thornton Melon 542]

Kasay kicking it outof bounds inexplicably. Refs making up the tuck rule in the raider game. Lots of people other than Brady really.

 

Give it up, son.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

Tuck rule ended the game, last play, win for the Patriots.

I keep forgetting that, it was snowy so very hard to tell.

What's the deal, they give free 10 points and stop the game regardless of time left?