WhiteWonder 2,171 Posted June 16, 2017 I didn't read through this whole thread so sorry if some of these are repeats (I'm sure they are) QB - Dak, Palmer, RB - Doug Martin (due to suspension. If you can stash him for 3 weeks he will give good value), Thomas Rawls, Riddick, Henry, Kelley WR - Snead, John Brown, Marvin Jones (because he ended last year so stale), DeAndre Hopkins to a certain extent is being undervalued, TE - Kyle Rudolph, Coby Fleener Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,457 Posted June 17, 2017 I agree about this season that one should be cautions about over ranking Howard, but after this season no matter what happens to Brate, Howard will no doubt be the Te1 going into 2018. He's simply going to be a better player than Brate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,457 Posted June 17, 2017 I think Marvin Jones is going to be the player we saw last season. Besides week two and three last season he was what I would expect for him to be again this season. Snead I agree with, and I'm over ranking him. Just think he could produce wr2 numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,114 Posted June 17, 2017 I agree about this season that one should be cautions about over ranking Howard, but after this season no matter what happens to Brate, Howard will no doubt be the Te1 going into 2018. He's simply going to be a better player than Brate. Howard's talent says yes... history says no. [pertaining to your last sentence] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 589 Posted June 17, 2017 Unless you're in a keeper league, don't waste a draft spot on Howard. I think he'll be productive, but he won't be fantasy relevant (this year). Here is how Tampa will use him (barring injuries to anyone else of course). Look for Winston to throw about 25-35 passes per game (pending flow, game plan, score, et al). Evans should get double digit targets (about 10-12), per game. Jackson should get close to that where his ceiling is Evans' floor. Brate will probably be next, then Howard, Godwin, Humphires, RB's, etc. So, a typical 30 attempt game is likely to be... Evans = 10 Jackson = 7 Brate = 5 Howard = 3 Humphries = 2 Godwin / RB's = 3 Remember... that's attempts, not completions. So, even if Howard gets 3 to 5 attempts and catches them all, you're looking at a 100% rate being a 4 catch for 50 yard game. Perfectly fine for a low end TE1, but you need to assume a 65% success rate, so you're looking at maybe 6 points per game. Not really even a backup as far as I'm concerned. A note of caution for people in a keeper or dynasty league... Brate is currently on a 1-year deal. If Godwin is slow to progress and Humphries is still a "meh" WR, Tampa may very well re-sign Brate for at least another year... maybe 2. If Tampa re-signs Brate, that will limit Howard's production in future years, so don't just assume that you just have to "wait it out" in 2017 and expect high end TE1 numbers going forward. It's possible that it might take another 2 to 3 years after this for him to be that productive (assuming he is a good player). also worth noting: if your argument is that Howard will beat Brate out for the TE1 spot, then the roles reverse and Howard gets 5 targets and Brate 3. Still not an ideal fantasy situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
R8RMick 242 Posted June 18, 2017 I'm recommending folks boogie over to the Raider websites and catch the mini camp pictures of Amari Cooper. Dude has rocked up considerably. With his technical game and 4.37 speed, bulking up will make him a beast to deal with. Plus it may also help his stamina down the stretch. I know I've been touting him for two years. He's a great pic for those with high draft picks coming back at the end of the second round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,114 Posted June 18, 2017 also worth noting: if your argument is that Howard will beat Brate out for the TE1 spot, then the roles reverse and Howard gets 5 targets and Brate 3. Still not an ideal fantasy situation. Yes, absolutely. Another thing for people to keep in mind is what rookie TE's do. Last year, Cameron Brate had 57 receptions for 660 yards and 8 TD's (about 10.5 fpg), which is awesome. That production would be considered the greatest season for a rookie TE in the Super Bowl era. For re-draft leagues, you'll need to temper your enthusiasm for Howard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,457 Posted June 18, 2017 In a 12 team redraft league he should only be trusted as a back up Te, if he's drafted at all. Now as the season goes deep into it, and near the end and as he learns he will start to be more involved. So in keeper leagues he should be a high target. Just look at how much Winston went to Brate. And Howard is the better player and his true value to the Bucs will show in 2018. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer 84 Posted June 19, 2017 What about Njoku in Cleveland? They have no other TE to throw the ball to, he's sickeningly athletic and Hue likes the TE being involved. I'm never high on rookie TE's, but I'd put him over Howard for 2017 based only on the targets he should see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,457 Posted June 19, 2017 Based on targets alone in a redraft league I would totally agree with you oldtimer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozenbeernuts 1,652 Posted June 19, 2017 Njoku may have some drop issues. His qb Will be bad, which usually doesn't bode well for a tight end, at least for this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,114 Posted June 19, 2017 In a 12 team redraft league he should only be trusted as a back up Te, if he's drafted at all. Now as the season goes deep into it, and near the end and as he learns he will start to be more involved. So in keeper leagues he should be a high target. Just look at how much Winston went to Brate. And Howard is the better player and his true value to the Bucs will show in 2018. ^^^ This. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lesjroza 70 Posted June 19, 2017 Who do you think may have a good season, but isn't currently being discussed? I've heard name like Kevin White, Robert Woods, Marcus Wheaton, Phillip Dorsett and some others thrown around online, but is there anyone you would trade for right now that is currently being valued at next-to-nothing? OK, I do have one valued at next to nothing but I wouldn't trade for him. The good news is you probably don't have to, there's a good chance he is on your WW so the cost is a roster slot. You pick him up and if the steady drum beat of good news does not continue you drop him for an early season WW gem. Ricardo Louis, Browns 4th round pick last year 4.43 40 @ 6'2 215 lbs 18 reps on the bench press, 38 in vertical and 132 in broad jump a top quartile finisher in all. A top 10 WR athlete in last years class within spitting distance of Corey Coleman and Josh Doctson in my own athletic metrics. Yes, I know its the Browns and they have no QB but............... the targets in Clev are completely up for grabs IMO. I like Coleman but he keeps getting hurt and in any case he is more of a big play guy than target hog. Clev could be playing from behind a lot so may have a fair amount tgt pie to divide. The #1 WR tgt at this point appears to be Kenny Britt so there is certainly room for a young guy to make noise. Look at the recent news for yourself, but R.L. has been flashing all off-season and beat writers do project him now as the #3. He will train with Brandon Marshall this summer and also "hopes" to link up with Andre Johnson and Antonio Brown. (In other news I hope my wife will pardon me to link up with Kate Upton this summer ) All joking aside this is the kind of news flow/situation you want in a developmental prospect. I couldn't find Doug's commentary on him from the '16 draft but I'd be curious to know what he thought/thinks of R.L. as a prospect. There's a lot to like IMO. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 589 Posted June 19, 2017 OK, I do have one valued at next to nothing but I wouldn't trade for him. The good news is you probably don't have to, there's a good chance he is on your WW so the cost is a roster slot. You pick him up and if the steady drum beat of good news does not continue you drop him for an early season WW gem. Ricardo Louis, Browns 4th round pick last year 4.43 40 @ 6'2 215 lbs 18 reps on the bench press, 38 in vertical and 132 in broad jump a top quartile finisher in all. A top 10 WR athlete in last years class within spitting distance of Corey Coleman and Josh Doctson in my own athletic metrics. Yes, I know its the Browns and they have no QB but............... the targets in Clev are completely up for grabs IMO. I like Coleman but he keeps getting hurt and in any case he is more of a big play guy than target hog. Clev could be playing from behind a lot so may have a fair amount tgt pie to divide. The #1 WR tgt at this point appears to be Kenny Britt so there is certainly room for a young guy to make noise. Look at the recent news for yourself, but R.L. has been flashing all off-season and beat writers do project him now as the #3. He will train with Brandon Marshall this summer and also "hopes" to link up with Andre Johnson and Antonio Brown. (In other news I hope my wife will pardon me to link up with Kate Upton this summer ) All joking aside this is the kind of news flow/situation you want in a developmental prospect. I couldn't find Doug's commentary on him from the '16 draft but I'd be curious to know what he thought/thinks of R.L. as a prospect. There's a lot to like IMO. This is really good information. I'll add this guy to my 'Watch' list. Thanks for posting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphster 274 Posted June 20, 2017 Les also liked Charles Johnson (WR, MIN) a couple years back for similar reasons. Not throwing shade, rather making the point that these are dart throws and they work out 10-20% of the time on average. Oldtimer: Wheaton - doubt it. Dorsett - really doubt it. K White - like him at current price. Woods - like him at current price. One dart throw at each position for 2017: QB - Tannehill 2nd year in Gase's system, solid supporting cast, current contract has no guaranteed money after this year so he'll be motivated to produce. 14th round adp. RB - Crowell Signed his tender, making 2.7mil this year and motivated to perform in order to secure a new contract. CLE is putting things together and Crow is going mid 3rd. I expect rb1 production. WR - Decker Signing with the Titans was a great landing spot. Currenly available in the late 9th (that will go up) he's a solid wr1 on a team that will target him in the rz. TE - Hooper The 2nd year TE for ATL could always run and catch, but he's improved his blocking and should be the every down TE for a powerful falcons offense. A top twelve TE in the 14th round? I'm buying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lesjroza 70 Posted June 20, 2017 Les also liked Charles Johnson (WR, MIN) a couple years back for similar reasons. Not throwing shade, rather making the point that these are dart throws and they work out 10-20% of the time on average. Maybe less..............some will be a Tyrell Williams, Julian Edleman, etc, most will not. The key is if the news flow doesn't continue positively move on. I wouldn't call 'em dart throws although I think I know what you mean. If you pick up a guy based on talent plus situation/news flow it helps define the reasons for holding....and the reasons to eventually drop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray_T 589 Posted June 20, 2017 Les also liked Charles Johnson (WR, MIN) a couple years back for similar reasons. Not throwing shade, rather making the point that these are dart throws and they work out 10-20% of the time on average. To be expected. anyone who thinks these guys are locks is sadly mistaken. I always put together a watch list this time of year and then watch the training camp reports. if this kid starts to displace people in the pecking order then I'll start to watch more closely. at this point, he could be 4-5 months from being a starter, or he could be 2-3 years away from being a starter. he also could flame out and never make it as a starter. but it's nice to know who some of these second tier prospects are and which ones have an outside shot at surprising. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maulers1973 117 Posted June 20, 2017 As a Browns homer, I can assure you that they have bolstered their offensive line and defensive line. They're not going to get pushed around the field next year. They WILL be able to run the ball. I'd give just about anything to get Crowell on my dynasty team, but I don't think his current owner will give him up. R. L. has been flashing in the offseason as the beat writers have covered. I'm not too excited. If he lights it up in preseason, then I'll take note. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
