Spinoff from traditional values thread

[naomi 343]

Trumpurethra's post makes me curious what other geek guys think:

 

I can count on one hand the amount of GUYS I have met in my life that were happily married. Women, sure, quite a few. But the guys, mostly all miserable. And nearly all of my married buddies have confided in me they cant wait for kids to grow up and get out, or they are jealous of me, or that they are miserable, etc.

Fock that sh!t and your traditional values lol. You are either delusional or lying to yourself or don't get out much. Probably all 3. Marriage is a suckers bet for men. We are hard wired to sleep around. Women are hard wired to nest. Fight that, fight your true nature, fight what you are inside, and live a life of misery and regret. It is what it is.

I do agree with the part about women staying home to raise the kids. I think that is their true nature. I won't begrudge a woman going for career over family. I just don't think she will be truly happy in the end. If she is honest with herself.

Your post is pure BS just based on our inherent DNA alone. I didn't even begin to touch on your implication of staying in a relationship with someone that doesn't make you happy. Stick it out for the family values bullsh!t. A lot of people do that and it is beyond dumb. Life too short for that sh!t too.

 

My thought on this is that if you don't have an affinity for a domestic/family life, most of the people you hit it off with probably don't and that's going to skew your perception of what your sex, in majority, prefers.

 

Where do you fall on this, where do most of your guy friends fall on this?

 

Slightly related, I wonder how many men would be fulfilled more by being the lone financial provider if it meant everything on the home front was taken care of, and comfortably taken care of...not the idealistic hunky dory 50's housewife, but just quality attention paid to everything on the domestic side, healthy food, clean home, quality time with the kids. How many would rather have that than the stress of two parents working and trying to split up all the domestic stuff.

[naomi 343]

My cat posted this thread. I wasn't actually ready yet.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Heres my thing.

 

Tradition, by its very nature, is limiting. It confines. Dictates.

 

This is good for social order and such. But it is not good from a freedom standpoint.

 

Every society falls somewhere upon a spectrum of order/tradition vs. freedom. Each side of the spectrum has benefits and drawbacks.

 

Personally, I support a society where everyone is permitted, nay, encouraged, to, as Jefferson put it, pursue happiness in his or her own way. The limit on this pursuit being, to my mind, the borders of someone elses rights.

 

The problem I have with traditional values types is their desire to impose their beliefs on others. If you wish to live traditionally, go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you. Be it our American version, all the way up to radical sharia law, you are free to pursue your own way of life.

 

But that isnt good enough for them. The existence of other ways makes it harder for them to confine their children to their way. So they seek to impose their way on society at large.

 

Im not a good person to answer the marital question you pose, as I do not, nor ever have, wanted children. I tend to not really understand the stay at home mom thing, once the kids are of school age anyway. I have a hard time seeing myself happy with a person who has no larger ambitions than doing laundry and cleaning all day.

 

But thats just me. To each their own. That is what America is supposed to be. You do you, and I do me.

[Voltaire 4,554]

My cat posted this thread. I wasn't actually ready yet.

Go ahead and edit to clean it up if you haven't already done so,

 

What do I think of his post? It made me want to gouge my eyes out. I couldn't disagree more.

 

Other men aren't like me but I am totally, 100%, wired to being a dad. I always have been. So when I was 29 and living with my mom and substitute teaching, it was driving me nuts. Any woman I would have wanted to date wouldn't have wanted to date me. Like that fiance who dumped me... I couldn't blame her, I'd have dumped me too.

 

My own father was/is a useless bum and I was always determined to doing right by my kids so they wouldn't have to put up with the cra@p I did growing up. Consequently, when I was at my low point, I was feeling like a bum, going nowhere and following in his footsteps rather than setting myself up for the future. In turn, I went a year and a half being miserable and depressed and didn't have a girlfriend the whole time between when I got dumped by my fiance until when I got off the plane in China.

 

As for trumpurethra, I obviously think he's missing out. He doesn't know anybody happily married? He knows me. I am. Mostly. Now, it's not all peaches and cream over here. I've been forthcoming with my biggest problem: my son's inabiility to do/finish his homework and how my wife's 'help' isn't so much help as it is berating and insulting him. Besides that though, it's mostly pretty d@mn good. She's happy with me, I'm happy with her.

 

I know other guys disagree.

[naomi 343]

The SAHM that makes some sense to me is not folding laundry, cleaning, and catching Dr. Oz day in and day out. It's taking care of that front and being involved in a cause close to your heart. Not in a token way, something goofy, but genuinely invested. So you are literally industrious at the same time beyond repetitive labor. My current comfort zone is both of us educated (or savvy in a trade), if we're going to have kids, me flexible, so we don't have day-to-day stress of catching everything up at home after work. That's drudgery.

 

But I'm more curious, what do you have affinity for in the first place? Is it really variable among guys (my guess), or knowing yourself and your friends, is there a strong chord of the nuclear family lifestyle feeling like an inherent imposition?

[Drizzay 644]

This is all subjective. I want what my parents have...47 years of marriage, 3 kids, a nice house, good friends, respect from the community.

 

The people I know that are miserable are the ones that focked around, single or married. They were never happy.

 

VERY few live a true "playboy" life. You need real money to get that. The ones that say they live that way are lying about the quality of women they get.

 

[Voltaire 4,554]

The SAHM that makes some sense to me is not folding laundry, cleaning, and catching Dr. Oz day in and day out. It's taking care of that front and being involved in a cause close to your heart. Not in a token way, something goofy, but genuinely invested. So you are literally industrious at the same time beyond repetitive labor. My current comfort zone is both of us educated (or savvy in a trade), if we're going to have kids, me flexible, so we don't have day-to-day stress of catching everything up at home after work. That's drudgery.

 

But I'm more curious, what do you have affinity for in the first place? Is it really variable among guys (my guess), or knowing yourself and your friends, is there a strong chord of the nuclear family lifestyle feeling like an inherent imposition?

My wife missed working so she started again when the youngest one was two years old and now we have our school has grown to 110 students. If it were up to me, we'd have had more kids, but she got the itch to work so... I got stuck at three kids when I wanted more.

 

But yeah, she was only a SAHM for that part of her life when the kids were small. Before and after she was working and making a good income.

 

I like smart women. I like that she's capable and reliable. Actually, I have a brain fetish. Fortunately, I didn't land a feminist to make each other miserable, but a woman who was far more suitable for me. And I was happy to work to support my family, while she was a SAHM. It's what I always envisioned myself doing. My kids turned out pretty good, son included.

[shorepatrol 1,735]

First line is focking retarded. Stopped reading

[naomi 343]

Go ahead and edit to clean it up if you haven't already done so,

 

What do I think of his post? It made me want to gouge my eyes out. I couldn't disagree more.

 

Other men aren't like me but I am totally, 100%, wired to being a dad. I always have been. So when I was 29 and living with my mom and substitute teaching, it was driving me nuts. Any woman I would have wanted to date wouldn't have wanted to date me. Like that fiance who dumped me... I couldn't blame her, I'd have dumped me too.

 

My own father was/is a useless bum and I was always committed to doing right by my kids but instead was feeling like a bum following in his footsteps. Consequently, I went a year and a half being miserable and depressed and didn't have a girlfriend the whole time between when I got dumped by my fiance until when I got off the plane in China.

 

I obviously think he's missing out. He doesn't know anybody happily married? He knows me. I am. Mostly. Now, it's not all peaches and cream over here. I've been forthcoming with my biggest problem: my son's inabiility to do/finish his homework and how my wife's 'help' isn't so much help as it is berating and insulting him. Besides that though, it's mostly pretty d@mn good. She's happy with me, I'm happy with her.

 

I know other guys disagree.

 

The guy I'm dating is as well, and he already is one. Wants more. I'm close to indifferent in terms of active desire (fall slightly on the future kids side). But I think I would make a good mom, and I like him enough to roll with it I'm not indifferent to the point I feel like another woman would suit him better.

[naomi 343]

First line is focking retarded. Stopped reading

 

 

Trumpurethra's post makes me curious what other geek guys think: ?

[shorepatrol 1,735]

 

 

Trumpurethra's post makes me curious what other geek guys think: ?

Read the whole retarded thing. He's a focking moron. Everything about relationships is subjective. Pick the right partner

[trumpurethra 42]

Heres my thing.

 

Tradition, by its very nature, is limiting. It confines. Dictates.

 

This is good for social order and such. But it is not good from a freedom standpoint.

 

Every society falls somewhere upon a spectrum of order/tradition vs. freedom. Each side of the spectrum has benefits and drawbacks.

 

Personally, I support a society where everyone is permitted, nay, encouraged, to, as Jefferson put it, pursue happiness in his or her own way. The limit on this pursuit being, to my mind, the borders of someone elses rights.

 

The problem I have with traditional values types is their desire to impose their beliefs on others. If you wish to live traditionally, go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you. Be it our American version, all the way up to radical sharia law, you are free to pursue your own way of life.

 

But that isnt good enough for them. The existence of other ways makes it harder for them to confine their children to their way. So they seek to impose their way on society at large.

 

Im not a good person to answer the marital question you pose, as I do not, nor ever have, wanted children. I tend to not really understand the stay at home mom thing, once the kids are of school age anyway. I have a hard time seeing myself happy with a person who has no larger ambitions than doing laundry and cleaning all day.

 

But thats just me. To each their own. That is what America is supposed to be. You do you, and I do me.

 

Exactly. What might be right for some may not be right for others. It's all good. Where we run into problems is with the judgmental bullsh!t and projecting, like we have here.

 

Like because I don't want to settle down and like to sleep with many women it is assumed, by some azzhat who lives in china lol, that I don't like kids. Couldn't be further from the truth. I love my kids. Would love more even. If I could go back I would have 3 or 4 more. Just don't want the wives that come with them lol. That is MY choice.

 

Or the other dipsh!t that assumes unless you are rich you can't date quality women. Another dumazz projection. I do pretty well but I am by no means a baller. I go to work every day and have to in order to sustain my lifestyle. I can't just kick it and chase women all day at the beach.

 

But I still hook up A LOT. And yes a lot of women just want to be with a guy for his money. But a lot of them do not. A lot of them just want to spend some time and be with someone they are attracted to.

 

In fact I had a buddy back in the day used to bang all these super hot married women. He was a broke azz mofo, personal trainer that ran an add on craigslist. He didn't make more than a couple grand a month and drove a busted down corolla.

 

But he was ripped up, chiseled, 5% bodyfat type guy. He was OCD about it, wouldn't even eat olive oil. All these women were clients he got. And all of them married to rich , out of shape, mostly older doctors/lawyers/biz men/etc. All these trophy wives were taking these dudes cash, paying my buddy to work them out a bit, and banging him on the side. And dude didn't have squat.

 

So yeah,life is not black and white, doesn't fit into a cookie cutter and happiness is different for everybody. If you can't get with that then maybe you should move to china. Oh wait, you already did lol. What a joke.

[5-Points 2,715]

Just celebrated 20 years of marriage last Wednesday. Wouldn't change a thing.

[Drizzay 644]

Just celebrated 20 years of marriage last Wednesday. Wouldn't change a thing.

[vuduchile 1,940]

Unhappily married for 10 years back in the 80s-90s.

 

Happily married now for 13 years and still going strong. No desire to bang other chicks.

[jerryskids 5,169]

Married 25 years this October with 3 kids. Happily? I guess, but what is "happy?" Am I happy that she's pissed at me for being months behind in filing expense statements? Not really. People misunderstand the descriptors of marriage IMO, it isn't about happiness, or even love. It is about commitment to a union, and finding meaning to that union, and growing through that union such that 1 + 1 = 3. It's not about leaving at the first sign of adversity, it is about working through adversity to be stronger in the end.

 

To me a large part of the meaning is my kids, but I understand and respect that some folks don't want them, and I presume they find other meaning in their relationships. I also understand that not all marriages work; it takes two to tango, and if I were TBBOM for instance I'd have bailed on that US marriage years earlier.

 

I used to be a playah before meeting my wife. A long-term relationship for me was if I was still there in the morning. There is a part of me that misses the chase. And if she got hit by a bus tomorrow, I'm 51 but in good shape and geek-club wealthy so I'm sure I could score some MILfs/cougars. But it isn't worth all of the positives from our union. One of which is the sex -- yesterday we had a long, awesome roll in the hay, the likes of which I never had with the hookups in my past. All of this time together has enabled us to learn and grow in our sex lives.

 

I'll end with 2 things that happened since I started typing this:

1. My wife knows about the thread; she came out after showering and said "make sure you tell those guys that you are going to Vegas next weekend for a FF draft and wives were invited, and I turned it down so that you could have a guy's weekend." That makes me happy.

2. After said shower, my wife walked out in an outfit she knows I find sexy. Interesting is that as part of the shower was a quickie for me. Part of a successful marriage is compromise; I want sex more often than she does, so we mix in quickies occasionally. But hmm... since I've had my quickie, why did she wear that? We are about to go shopping for some new clothes for her new office job (she currently works from home), and we talked about having sex while she is wearing them, is this a leadup to a second round today? I'm intrigued...