Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
posty

Another school shooting...

Recommended Posts

 

It's been around a long time. Post some evidence it's a bad thing. Or just b*tch like you always do without supporting your position.

You get very testy about the gun thing, even towards 2A supporters. But I'll give you my two cents, because you asked. It's one thing if a teacher, who is comfortable around guns, possibly a hunter, goes out and gets a CC permit on their own for self protection and possibly to protect others. But to think we are now going to actually prod people who otherwise had no interest into getting one, and filling their heads with delusions of being a hero in worst case possible scenarios, and the good will outweigh the bad, you're just a non-thinking jackass who will cling to anything to advance and protect your agenda. You nutty gun rights people are going to be the cause of your own downfall due to these insane ideas that you try and pass off as a solution to the rest of us. It would be better if you just said that mass shootings are an unfortunate by product of our constitutional rights and nothing can be done. That would make sense. Half of these teachers can't stop humping the students as is, but you think Miss Crabtree can be a cool customer while the bullets fly and is going to take out a guy strapped with a rifle and a 9mm with her .38 snubnose.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im fine with trained firearm carrying teachers, but they arent that common. They will be few and far between but if they want to carry on that trend Im fine with it. People are getting this idea though that every school coast to coast will have armed teachers and thats just not going to happen.

 

I fully agree with HT that saying shootings are an unfortunate bi product of our rights is a better way to put it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats not fair. School shootings arent common enough to point to the ones that havent been targeted and draw correlations. Thats extreme corner case arguing.

 

Ill agree that if there have been no incidents where an armed teacher had an accident that it lends merit to the concept as a whole. As I said before, my personal research has led me to think a common ground here is somewhat plausible on some scale.

 

If school shootings aren't common then why are we even talking about how to stop them? You just focked your own argument. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You get very testy about the gun thing, even towards 2A supporters. But I'll give you my two cents, because you asked. It's one thing if a teacher, who is comfortable around guns, possibly a hunter, goes out and gets a CC permit on their own for self protection and possibly to protect others. But to think we are now going to actually prod people who otherwise had no interest into getting one, and filling their heads with delusions of being a hero in worst case possible scenarios, and the good will outweigh the bad, you're just a non-thinking jackass who will cling to anything to advance and protect your agenda. You nutty gun rights people are going to be the cause of your own downfall due to these insane ideas that you try and pass off as a solution to the rest of us. It would be better if you just said that mass shootings are an unfortunate by product of our constitutional rights and nothing can be done. That would make sense. Half of these teachers can't stop humping the students as is, but you think Miss Crabtree can be a cool customer while the bullets fly and is going to take out a guy strapped with a rifle and a 9mm with her .38 snubnose.

 

Have you read the links I posted previously? Yes or No?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If school shootings aren't common then why are we even talking about how to stop them? You just focked your own argument. Thanks.

My argument? Im not arguing anything. In this thread so far I have backed up your statement that there are teachers carrying already and said that teachers carrying shouldnt be a widespread thing. Thats it, I have no argument, just opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah I see. I have no link on that angle but it sounds dubious at best. People attack schools because thats where the classmates they hate go. They have snapped and are hell bent on killing. The kids who bully them, teachers that punish them are the targets. They arent strategically scouted locations chosen for their vulnerability. Its just where they focus their rage and lunacy.

Correct. Most mass shooters are seeking vengeance along with infamy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, now that we've acknowledged that teacher's packing is not uncommon, who can point to a school that has had a shooting incident where a teacher was packing or where a teacher who was packing shot up a school?

 

No one said teachers carrying firearms are common. Kinda like mass shootings aren’t common. But just like concealed carriers in other settings, there is no good evidence that gun ownership improves safety. On the contrary, you’re more likely to shoot yourself or loved ones than the bad guy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/19/guns-in-america-for-every-criminal-killed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/?utm_term=.c51716c6ec01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If school shootings aren't common then why are we even talking about how to stop them? You just focked your own argument. Thanks.

There are plenty of uncommon events we try to prevent: airplane crashes, terrorist attacks, measles outbreaks, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did not even have to look for this. It just popped up under Google news this morning

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/14/teacher-accidentally-discharges-firearm-in-calif-classroom-he-was-trained-in-gun-use/?utm_term=.d99aeed5152e

 

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now imagine up to 20% of teachers being armed in schools. :doh:

 

How about this? Let's have all of the proponents of this silly idea go to a school during a fire drill. Watch how they have no clue as to how to properly evacuate a building in a timely manner. Now expect those teachers to evacuate and put out a real fire. Not going to happen.

 

Heck, even one of the so-called heroes in Parkland may have locked kids out of his room to cover his own ass.

 

Let's let trained professionals deal with this and not part-time vigilantes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

FTA:

 

Diffenbaugh noted that state law and school policy forbids carrying firearms on campus without authorization. Alexander, he said, was not authorized.

 

Wow, way to find an example that doesn't apply, We're talking about school districts with policies related to teachers packing, not rogue teachers in violation of such policies. And, even if he were in compliance, I'd rather a stray accident where a kid gets hit with a little ceiling material than a mass shooting. But good job on your red herring.

 

:thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

FTA:

 

 

Wow, way to find an example that doesn't apply, We're talking about school districts with policies related to teachers packing, not rogue teachers in violation of such policies. And, even if he were in compliance, I'd rather a stray accident where a kid gets hit with a little ceiling material than a mass shooting. But good job on your red herring.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Teacher with a license to carry has a gun in class and kid gets hurt. Whether the school or state allowed it is immaterial since the point of this is that the Federal Government wants to put it in place in all states.

 

Nice deflection, though. At least you weren't as pompous as you usually are. :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im fine with trained firearm carrying teachers, but they arent that common. They will be few and far between but if they want to carry on that trend Im fine with it. People are getting this idea though that every school coast to coast will have armed teachers and thats just not going to happen.

 

I fully agree with HT that saying shootings are an unfortunate bi product of our rights is a better way to put it.

 

Who is training them?

Police or Military? Who is training the trainers? As most aren't actually trained to shoot among children and possibly have to take the life of a child.

It isn't training most already have or training many know how to really do...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Teacher with a license to carry has a gun in class and kid gets hurt. Whether the school or state allowed it is immaterial since the point of this is that the Federal Government wants to put it in place in all states.

 

Nice deflection, though. At least you weren't as pompous as you usually are. :thumbsup:

 

School policy, and state law prohibits what he did. So, this incident NEVER occurs absent him violating those rules. We can't even say if this guy would have been approved using the rules that districts that allow teachers to carry use. They do have rules and standards that have to be met BEFORE they allow a teacher to carry. I don't care if he's a reserve cop. I'm guessing going forward he may not be. He's clearly an idiot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Access control. That is the solution, along with school security, armed if that's what the community wants. If there was access control in Parkland this shooting is either confined to the point of access, or doesn't happen. Much more affective than hoping the teacher with the gun isn't on the crapper or out to lunch or playing hooky. Or nuts himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Teacher with a license to carry has a gun in class and kid gets hurt. Whether the school or state allowed it is immaterial since the point of this is that the Federal Government wants to put it in place in all states.

 

Nice deflection, though. At least you weren't as pompous as you usually are. :thumbsup:

 

I don't agree with teachers carrying, I don't think any amount of evidence would change my mind.

 

That being said, this is a terrible example and doesn't help our case at all. Best to just admit you focked this one up and move on.

 

HTH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

School policy, and state law prohibits what he did. So, this incident NEVER occurs absent him violating those rules. We can't even say if this guy would have been approved using the rules that districts that allow teachers to carry use. They do have rules and standards that have to be met BEFORE they allow a teacher to carry. I don't care if he's a reserve cop. I'm guessing going forward he may not be. He's clearly an idiot.

 

So if things like this are happening how, against policy, what happens when you remove those policies and bring more guns into the mix?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So if things like this are happening how, against policy, what happens when you remove those policies and bring more guns into the mix?

 

What? Districts that allow teachers to carry have MORE policies and requirements. Not sure what you mean by removing them. That's one reason this is a very poor example of why we shouldn't allow teachers to carry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What? Districts that allow teachers to carry have MORE policies and requirements. Not sure what you mean by removing them. That's one reason this is a very poor example of why we shouldn't allow teachers to carry.

 

The policy here was no guns at all, correct? A policy can't get much more clear than that. And yet this thing still happened, and other similar incidents have happened. And you are advocating for policy changes that will introduce more guns into these environments, which will make these types of incidents more likely and more commonplace. There's really no way around that. It's called "the law of unintended consequences".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The policy here was no guns at all, correct? A policy can't get much more clear than that. And yet this thing still happened, and other similar incidents have happened. And you are advocating for policy changes that will introduce more guns into these environments, which will make these types of incidents more likely and more commonplace. There's really no way around that. It's called "the law of unintended consequences".

 

You're right. I am. I don't even know if they communicate this policy, or how often, in this case. I'd like clearly defined policies and training. From the school. Not an outside agency, unless contracted by the school. I've read a number of articles about how districts that allow teachers to carry operate. And they've NEVER had this issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You're right. I am. I don't even know if they communicate this policy, or how often, in this case. I'd like clearly defined policies and training. From the school. Not an outside agency, unless contracted by the school. I've read a number of articles about how districts that allow teachers to carry operate. And they've NEVER had this issue.

You know that accidental discharges happen all the time in police departments and the military, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know that accidental discharges happen all the time in police departments and the military, right?

 

That's nice. And at schools sometimes there are on purpose discharges that kill lots of people. What's your point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You get very testy about the gun thing, even towards 2A supporters. But I'll give you my two cents, because you asked. It's one thing if a teacher, who is comfortable around guns, possibly a hunter, goes out and gets a CC permit on their own for self protection and possibly to protect others. But to think we are now going to actually prod people who otherwise had no interest into getting one, and filling their heads with delusions of being a hero in worst case possible scenarios, and the good will outweigh the bad, you're just a non-thinking jackass who will cling to anything to advance and protect your agenda. You nutty gun rights people are going to be the cause of your own downfall due to these insane ideas that you try and pass off as a solution to the rest of us. It would be better if you just said that mass shootings are an unfortunate by product of our constitutional rights and nothing can be done. That would make sense. Half of these teachers can't stop humping the students as is, but you think Miss Crabtree can be a cool customer while the bullets fly and is going to take out a guy strapped with a rifle and a 9mm with her .38 snubnose.

 

Agree 100%. Looking back I had a few teachers that absolutely should not have had a gun around children. Completely stupid focking idea and its such primitive thinking. I am also one of the biggest 2A supports you will ever meet. But this is illogical and stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right. I am. I don't even know if they communicate this policy, or how often, in this case. I'd like clearly defined policies and training. From the school. Not an outside agency, unless contracted by the school. I've read a number of articles about how districts that allow teachers to carry operate. And they've NEVER had this issue.

 

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/lewis-diuguid/article1439244.html

 

 

A concealed handgun fired at the Physical Science Complex, shooting the instructor with the gun in the foot. Police reported that the instructor had a permit to carry the concealed handgun.

 

 

Idaho in the last legislative session passed a measure that allows concealed carry on campuses in the state as long as the person has obtained an enhanced permit, the Idaho State Journal reports. The law went into effect July 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That's nice. And at schools sometimes there are on purpose discharges that kill lots of people. What's your point?

If some cops and military can't be responsible with their weapons, I think more teachers won't be. That's my point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's nice. And at schools sometimes there are on purpose discharges that kill lots of people. What's your point?

 

His point is that even in the presence of the highest trained firearm handlers, accidents happen.

 

Its obvious by now that even our 2A supporters think arming more teachers is among the worst ideas ever conceived. We are, as a board, heavily consensus against it. Some are still for it, thats where it is. Lets just leave it at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Access control. That is the solution, along with school security, armed if that's what the community wants. If there was access control in Parkland this shooting is either confined to the point of access, or doesn't happen. Much more affective than hoping the teacher with the gun isn't on the crapper or out to lunch or playing hooky. Or nuts himself.

That might work well for closed campuses but many schools have open campuses which won't allow for much access control. I agree, though, that it should be controlled as much as possible. :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If some cops and military can't be responsible with their weapons, I think more teachers won't be. That's my point.

 

Exactly. That point was completely missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Exactly. That point was completely missed.

 

I mean you guys are talking to a guy that would buy a beer for his 13 year old if he focked his gun totting English teacher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I mean you guys are talking to a guy that would buy a beer for his 13 year old if he focked his gun totting English teacher.

 

To be clear, only if she was hot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Wow. A four year old article that tangentially mentions a shooting with no details on that actual shooting.

 

You said "NEVER". Even capitalized it for emphasis. I guess I didn't know never meant only in the last couple years. Also how much more detail to you need than the excerpted? Do you think they made it up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You said "NEVER". Even capitalized it for emphasis. I guess I didn't know never meant only in the last couple years. Also how much more detail to you need than the excerpted? Do you think they made it up?

 

According to the article you posted, you have to have an "enhanced permit", whatever the fock that means, in order to carry on campus. There is no mention of whether this guy had that permit. So, you know, that's why I mentioned the lack of detail in the article. And, that law wasn't about a policy of teachers carrying. It was about general carry on campus which is a separate topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saying never is a good way to lose arguments. There are usually examples of everything and corner cases of every scenario.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saying never is a good way to lose arguments. There are usually examples of everything and corner cases of every scenario.

 

I'm still waiting. So far, the examples have not been related to districts with policies regarding teachers carrying. And I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I"m saying from what I've read it hasn't happened yet, and the districts with these policies feel it is beneficial and makes the environments safer. I trust people who've actually done something over those who haven't but want to argue about it on the Interwebs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Have you read the links I posted previously? Yes or No?

 

At least point to the threads where you posted these links. We are not going to hunt down your post history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody who thinks teachers should be armed is either 1) not a parent, or 2) a focking idiot, who has no business reproducing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody who thinks teachers should be armed is either 1) not a parent, or 2) a focking idiot, who has no business reproducing.

There are plenty of teachers out there that can handle a gun just fine...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a few teachers out there that can handle a gun just fine...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×