TimmySmith 2,782 Posted January 23, 2019 Griffey and Ripken both should have been unanimous for not only their career but the entirety of their contributions. Rivera being unanimous just shows it was the New York writers all these years not voting for people. It's not the Rivera isn't deserving, it's that others clearly were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,593 Posted January 23, 2019 Griffey and Ripken both should have been unanimous for not only their career but the entirety of their contributions. Rivera being unanimous just shows it was the New York writers all these years not voting for people. It's not the Rivera isn't deserving, it's that others clearly were. Hogwash Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted January 23, 2019 Griffey and Ripken both should have been unanimous for not only their career but the entirety of their contributions. Rivera being unanimous just shows it was the New York writers all these years not voting for people. It's not the Rivera isn't deserving, it's that others clearly were. You are an idiot. It's votes being public Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted January 23, 2019 I can respect that argument. Dont agree but respect it. Mo was special - 1st ballot worthy as anyone. He deserves to be in... I said earlier in previous threads that he should be in (even though earlier in here I said he shouldn't)... Mainly because I can't believe that he was on 100% of the ballots returned... It was a knee-jerk reaction... The issue is that he was the first unanimous player... There have been many others that should have been unanimous way before Rivera was voted in... I am just more ticked at the voters to allow him to be the first... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,593 Posted January 23, 2019 He deserves to be in... I said earlier in previous threads that he should be in (even though earlier in here I said he shouldn't)... Mainly because I can't believe that he was on 100% of the ballots returned... It was a knee-jerk reaction... The issue is that he was the first unanimous player... There have been many others that should have been unanimous way before Rivera was voted in... I am just more ticked at the voters to allow him to be the first... More brilliant analysis by Posty. You think others should have been unanimous? That's a unique stance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted January 23, 2019 This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Hardcore troubadour. View it anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,593 Posted January 23, 2019 This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Hardcore troubadour. View it anyway? It's about time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbivore 904 Posted January 23, 2019 Mussina should not make it in. Very good, but never really great. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted January 23, 2019 Mussina should not make it in. Very good, but never really great. Higher WAR than Bob Gibson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbivore 904 Posted January 23, 2019 Higher WAR than Bob Gibson I guess WAR is pretty flawed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted January 23, 2019 Higher WAR than Bob Gibson Gibson was 89.4, Mussina 83.0... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted January 23, 2019 https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_pitch_career.shtml Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted January 23, 2019 He deserves to be in... I said earlier in previous threads that he should be in (even though earlier in here I said he shouldn't)... Mainly because I can't believe that he was on 100% of the ballots returned... It was a knee-jerk reaction... The issue is that he was the first unanimous player... There have been many others that should have been unanimous way before Rivera was voted in... I am just more ticked at the voters to allow him to be the first... The "unanimous' argument is in itself - focking retarded. You're either HOF worthy or you're not - period. The unanimous debate was born and fueled by egotistical, self important, dumbass writers. Writers with tiny diicks who got off wielding what little power they had........It's 2019 - time to get over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted January 23, 2019 The closer is similar to the DH IMO... Neither of them should be getting in... But I guess it makes sense to have a closer and two designated hitters going in together... Ozzie Smith got in on the first ballot and he was as big a one dimensional player in the HoF conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted January 23, 2019 Mussina should not make it in. Very good, but never really great. This is where it becomes "so and so is in, so should Mussina." In this case the so and so is Jack Morris. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted January 23, 2019 This is where it becomes "so and so is in, so should Mussina." In this case the so and so is Jack Morris. Floodgates are open. Of course, Harold Baines will be the litmus test/Mendoza line. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted January 23, 2019 The "unanimous' argument is in itself - focking retarded. You're either HOF worthy or you're not - period. The unanimous debate was born and fueled by egotistical, self important, dumbass writers. Writers with tiny diicks who got off wielding what little power they had........It's 2019 - time to get over. Dude, calm down... Relax... My opinion is just one crappy one like everyone else's opinion here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbivore 904 Posted January 23, 2019 This is where it becomes "so and so is in, so should Mussina." In this case the so and so is Jack Morris. Yes. This is a terrible argument for people getting in to any hall. Comparing stats from different generations is so weak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted January 23, 2019 Dude, calm down... Relax... My opinion is just one crappy one like everyone else's opinion here... I am calm - enjoying the discussion. Don't take everything as an attack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted January 23, 2019 I am calm - enjoying the discussion. Don't take everything as an attack. Sorry about that chief... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,940 Posted January 23, 2019 Rivera was the best closer of all time. So, you could argue that the a guy who was the best ever at what he does deserves to be a unanimous choice. But closer is a role, not a position. A closer pitches one inning, maybe two. How does his unanimous selection look when compared to other great pitchers in history who were not unanimous? Nolan Ryan - 491 of 497 votes. Who are the 6 morons who voted no on this guy? Greg Maddux 555 of 571 votes Randy Johnson 534 of 549 votes What about other position players who weren't unanimous? Babe Ruth 215 of 225 votes. Gimme a focking break already. Hank Aaron 406 of 416. Griffey Jr. 437 of 440 These voters are nuts. They've basically turned Cooperstown into a middle school popularity contest. It's all meaningless now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,547 Posted January 23, 2019 I should add my 2 cents, you all know how I feel about the MLB HOF Vudu just said it and said it best It's all meaningless now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted January 23, 2019 Rivera was the best closer of all time. So, you could argue that the a guy who was the best ever at what he does deserves to be a unanimous choice. But closer is a role, not a position. A closer pitches one inning, maybe two. How does his unanimous selection look when compared to other great pitchers in history who were not unanimous? Nolan Ryan - 491 of 497 votes. Who are the 6 morons who voted no on this guy? Greg Maddux 555 of 571 votes Randy Johnson 534 of 549 votes What about other position players who weren't unanimous? Babe Ruth 215 of 225 votes. Gimme a focking break already. Hank Aaron 406 of 416. Griffey Jr. 437 of 440 These voters are nuts. They've basically turned Cooperstown into a middle school popularity contest. It's all meaningless now. Well said... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Honcho 4,010 Posted January 23, 2019 I should add my 2 cents, you all know how I feel about the MLB HOF Vudu just said it and said it best You love the grandeur, majesty and integrity of the players and the process? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,593 Posted January 23, 2019 Jeter should be the second unanimous one next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted January 23, 2019 4 NO votes for Ty Cobb 20 NO votes for Ted Williams 23 NO votes for Willie Mays 28 NO votes for Joe DiMaggio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,547 Posted January 23, 2019 4 NO votes for Ty Cobb 20 NO votes for Ted Williams 23 NO votes for Willie Mays 28 NO votes for Joe DiMaggio Bonds and Clemens not in Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted January 23, 2019 Bonds and Clemens not in They will get there... Been reading some things that said with all of the cleanup of the current lists and not many coming down the road that are worth it, they could see the 15-16% increase to get them in... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,593 Posted January 23, 2019 Bonds and Clemens not in Boo fockin hoo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted January 23, 2019 Jeter should be the second unanimous one next year. No problem with that, very deserving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted January 23, 2019 I would have put Pettitte in over Mussina. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Honcho 4,010 Posted January 23, 2019 They will get there... Been reading some things that said with all of the cleanup of the current lists and not many coming down the road that are worth it, they could see the 15-16% increase to get them in... Not going to reargue the debate, but saw this yesterday, thought you would be interested. SB Nation Though Bonds and Clemens have made a substantial push in recent years, there are only three years remaining on the writers’ ballot to get to 75%. The gains of the last few years have come from two sources — increased support from new Hall of Fame voters, and a recent culling of the electorate. In 2015 the Hall of Fame made an important change to its voting process, culling the field of eligible BBWAA voters to essentially only active or recently active members. BBWAA members who haven’t covered the game in over 10 years were no longer eligible for a Hall vote, a departure from the previous policy of giving long-retired writers a ballot. The effect was drastic, with 549 total ballots received for the 2015 election trimmed down to just 440 in 2016. That number has been fairly steady since, including 425 ballots received this year. The first-time Hall of Fame voters — those who have reached 10 years in the BBWAA — from 2017 to now have showed strong support for both Clemens and Bonds. Out of 36 first-timers in the last three elections, 32 voted for Clemens (88.9%) and 31 voted for Bonds (86.1%). From a very simplified perspective, the voting pool has replaced an older group much less likely to vote for Bonds or Clemens with voters who will support their Cooperstown candidacy. But even if 2020-22 sees the same surge of first-time voter support for Bonds and Clemens that they got the last three years, it won’t be enough. If, hypothetically, 36 new voters all replace “no” votes in the next three elections, 32 more votes for Clemens would put him at a still-short 67.1%, with 31 more Bonds votes would put him at 66.4%. In other words, Clemens and Bonds will need some current voters to change their minds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
