Le’Veon Bell - The hold out continues!

[seafoam1 1,879]

Don't matter if he reports or not...he's not going to play week 1.

Let's face it...if you drafted BELL and don't have Connor you deserve this.

It matters a lot if you are a Bell owner, which I am not. If he shows up at least you know he will play for most of the year. If he doesn't show up you gotta believe you will only have him for the last few games of the FF season. Ouch.

 

If you drafted a week and a half ago, how far would you had let him drop before you would pick him?

[brotherbock 349]

Knock off this garbage.

 

Brotherbock & Seafoam, enough!

 

Each of you have your opinion, quit trying to justify them. You made your points and accept that not everyone will see it the way you do.

 

I'm not trying to justify my opinion. I'm calling Seafoam out on personally attacking me and putting words in my mouth for stating my opinion.

 

Look at my original post. Did I say anything personal about anyone here? Did I say anything about Seafoam that warrants his reply to me? Don't try to tell me that he and I are 'equally antagonistic' here. That's BS. I stated my opinion without attacking anyone here, and I got attacked for it. I happen to be perfectly fine with someone disagreeing with what I actually wrote. My reply to him was not justifying my position at all. If someone wants to debate my position with me, I'm all for it. That's why I stated it here.

 

Don't call me out as having 'started this' or anything. Look at what I wrote. I did not attack anyone.

 

 

Edit: want more proof? Look at his replies to you. Nothing but a$$holish aggression. I'm not going to stand for it. I know from experience last year that Foamy can be a decent guy if he gets his head out of his reactionary a$$. But he's very, very quick to personally attack people. That's what I'm not putting up with. So please, don't tell me to 'knock off the garbage'. Point the finger at the actual source of the garbage. I don't attack people who disagree with me.

[seafoam1 1,879]

 

I'm not trying to justify my opinion. I'm calling Seafoam out on personally attacking me and putting words in my mouth for stating my opinion.

 

Look at my original post. Did I say anything personal about anyone here? Did I say anything about Seafoam that warrants his reply to me? Don't try to tell me that he and I are 'equally antagonistic' here. That's BS. I stated my opinion without attacking anyone here, and I got attacked for it. I happen to be perfectly fine with someone disagreeing with what I actually wrote. My reply to him was not justifying my position at all. If someone wants to debate my position with me, I'm all for it. That's why I stated it here.

 

Don't call me out as having 'started this' or anything. Look at what I wrote. I did not attack anyone.

 

 

Edit: want more proof? Look at his replies to you. Nothing but a$$holish aggression. I'm not going to stand for it. I know from experience last year that Foamy can be a decent guy if he gets his head out of his reactionary a$$. But he's very, very quick to personally attack people. That's what I'm not putting up with. So please, don't tell me to 'knock off the garbage'. Point the finger at the actual source of the garbage. I don't attack people who disagree with me.

Go "old white guys" (your quote not mine)!! They made the NFL what it is today!! An entertainment form that everyone on this site loooovveesss.

 

And go Leveon Bell, he is one of my favorite players in the game to watch. Hope he comes back tomorrow.

[brotherbock 349]

Go "old white guys" (your quote not mine)!! They made the NFL what it is today!! An entertainment form that everyone on this site loooovveesss.

 

No, good, let's look at exactly what I said, and what you said I said.

 

Here's what I said about a certain bunch of old white guys:

 

a bunch of old white dudes were making billions off of my performance (without giving me the respect of allowing me freedom of expression to not stand up for a flag and a song without punishment),

 

 

Here's your interpretation of that.

 

Ok so you don't like successful white people. That's fine. And businesses that have rules that apply while you are at work. So you don't like old people, white people, and businesses that have rules of behavior. Good start there champ.

 

 

 

See, what you wrote there is not at all what I said. It's obvious. What you wrote is your caricature of what I said. That's how you argue. It's how you argued last year when you first came here, until I and others called you on it, and told you straight up that you have the choice to not be a d!ckhead to people. And at that point, you calmed down significantly, and you did a lot less of purposefully misreading people, or overreacting (whichever this is here). After that, you and I got along just fine. We would chat, make jokes, commiserate over tough seasons, etc.

 

But now, I come here and say something about a certain group of people--NFL owners--and you then claim that I am saying I don't like successful white people. You are deciding, once again, to purposefully create straw man caricatures of people's arguments, just so you can attack them.

 

Answer me this: why do you think you need to attack people when they disagree with you? Do you honestly not respect anyone who disagrees with you? Do you honestly think that your opinions are the only opinions that reasonable, decent people could hold? I know you don't think that.

 

So. Stop attacking people. You're better than that. Stop pretending people are saying things they aren't saying. It's not working, and it's making people dislike you.

[seafoam1 1,879]

Wow. Go Leveon Bell!! Your $14.5 million awaits!

[rallo 132]

What are the odds that LeVeon just cant pass a piss test right now... drink some cranberry juice and report back!

[seafoam1 1,879]

What are the odds that LeVeon just cant pass a push test right now... drink some cranberry juice and report back!

Hmmm... Interesting...

[tanatastic 2,061]

Bell is as excited for his 14 mil as we would be to find a dollar on the ground. Less actually. He would literally...LITERALLY rather take nothing and wait for next year.

[seafoam1 1,879]

Bell is as excited for his 14 mil as we would be to find a dollar on the ground. Less actually.

This is so perplexing. I kinda just thought he wanted to just sit out the preseason. I actually believe in that for veterans (especially RBs) that are coming back into the same system. I think most people thought that. This is crazy if he sits out. Maybe he is pulling a Ricky Williams.

[tanatastic 2,061]

This is so perplexing. I kinda just thought he wanted to just sit out the preseason. I actually believe in that for veterans (especially RBs) that are coming back into the same system. I think most people thought that. This is crazy if he sits out. Maybe he is pulling a Ricky Williams.

I’d be really shocked if he misses game checks. I don’t think that’s his plan really.

[seafoam1 1,879]

I’d be really shocked if he misses game checks. I don’t think that’s his plan really.

I hope so man. I really enjoy watching that Steelers offense, and he is fun to see play.

[We Tigers 71]

I’d be really shocked if he misses game checks. I don’t think that’s his plan really.

 

Yeah, I think he reports tomorrow. The closest analog to this is the Vincent Jackson situation from a while back, but his holdout actually made sense; he was tendered at like $3M, a comical underpay, and then went out and got $25M guaranteed from the Bucs the next year. Given up 2.5M by waiting till week 11 to report is a lot different than giving up $9M to do the same.

[seafoam1 1,879]

And to Brotherbock- I am sorry to have offended you man, if I did. We did not like each other's choice of words and don't agree on certain things, but that happens in life and that discussion is probably meant for a different forum or at least at a different time of year.

If you think about it, what person do you hang with in life that you agree with on everything? That would be boring.

This should be fun time on here. Go Bears!!

[brotherbock 349]

And to Brotherbock- I am sorry to have offended you man, if I did. We did not like each other's choice of words and don't agree on certain things, but that happens in life and that discussion is probably meant for a different forum or at least at a different time of year.

 

If you think about it, what person do you hang with in life that you agree with on everything? That would be boring.

 

This should be fun time on here. Go Bears!!

 

Thanks man. I didn't mean for anyone to get actually upset at what I wrote, but I admit that I did intend to sound snarky. But...I don't dislike old white people. My dad is an old white person I do dislike the stance that the NFL owners are taking on many things, and I do think that they don't have a good perspective on the treatment of their players--either injury, or payment, or the anthem issue. So, yeah...I don't like many of the owners. At least what I know about them. If I knew them in person, I'd probably generally get along with most of them.

 

I just think there's honestly a dividing line between saying something negative about people in the public spotlight, and saying something negative about the people in the forum that we're talking to. I am not immune to saying sh!t about people in return, to be clear. To quote some folks in politics these days, "I'm a counter-puncher"

 

Anyway, it's cool. Hope you had a good spring/summer and all that. I'm looking at such a busy Fall that I'm largely going to have to play FF without actually watching much F at all. Interesting.

[brotherbock 349]

Bell is as excited for his 14 mil as we would be to find a dollar on the ground. Less actually. He would literally...LITERALLY rather take nothing and wait for next year.

 

It's funny--people can decide that making a point is more important than what seems like ridiculous amounts of money. I don't mean that with rolled eyes--it's really fascinating that someone could say "I care more about making a point to this organization than I do about $14 million." I mean...I've quit jobs before, with nothing else lined up, because of some issues that others might let go. But those were part-time, low paying jobs. $14 million? You need some strong convictions for that.

[seafoam1 1,879]

 

Thanks man. I didn't mean for anyone to get actually upset at what I wrote, but I admit that I did intend to sound snarky. But...I don't dislike old white people. My dad is an old white person I do dislike the stance that the NFL owners are taking on many things, and I do think that they don't have a good perspective on the treatment of their players--either injury, or payment, or the anthem issue. So, yeah...I don't like many of the owners. At least what I know about them. If I knew them in person, I'd probably generally get along with most of them.

 

I just think there's honestly a dividing line between saying something negative about people in the public spotlight, and saying something negative about the people in the forum that we're talking to. I am not immune to saying sh!t about people in return, to be clear. To quote some folks in politics these days, "I'm a counter-puncher"

 

Anyway, it's cool. Hope you had a good spring/summer and all that. I'm looking at such a busy Fall that I'm largely going to have to play FF without actually watching much F at all. Interesting.

Cool dude. Cheers to a good year!!

[brotherbock 349]

Cool dude. Cheers to a good year!!

 

We'll both have better years than the Jets. There's always that

[seafoam1 1,879]

 

It's funny--people can decide that making a point is more important than what seems like ridiculous amounts of money. I don't mean that with rolled eyes--it's really fascinating that someone could say "I care more about making a point to this organization than I do about $14 million." I mean...I've quit jobs before, with nothing else lined up, because of some issues that others might let go. But those were part-time, low paying jobs. $14 million? You need some strong convictions for that.

Or possibly other people are influencing his decisions off the field?

[ralphster 274]

Nice to see cooler heads prevail. Respect that from you Foamy & Brother Bock.

 

Regarding Bell I think his agent is in his ear whispering that they can make up the missed money w guaranteed dough on his next contract.

[brotherbock 349]

Or possibly other people are influencing his decisions off the field?

 

 

Regarding Bell I think his agent is in his ear whispering that they can make up the missed money w guaranteed dough on his next contract.

 

This is a really solid point. None of these guys are making these decisions in a vacuum. There are always agents whose players seem to be more problematic, right? (coughDrewRosenhauscough) Totally believable that he might not make this choice if he had a different agent, different friends, etc.

 

Part of me respects anyone even a little bit who stands up for convictions. You think something is important enough to sacrifice for? Okay, you do you. So I don't know if I have an overall opinion about whether Bell should or shouldn't hold out. I think the Steelers have a good enough OLine and other talent that they don't need him as much as he needs them. But it's more just a 'grab the popcorn' situation for me. (Although I have Connor, and I'm thinking about dropping Chris Ivory for Samuels.)

[seafoam1 1,879]

 

 

 

This is a really solid point. None of these guys are making these decisions in a vacuum. There are always agents whose players seem to be more problematic, right? (coughDrewRosenhauscough) Totally believable that he might not make this choice if he had a different agent, different friends, etc.

 

Part of me respects anyone even a little bit who stands up for convictions. You think something is important enough to sacrifice for? Okay, you do you. So I don't know if I have an overall opinion about whether Bell should or shouldn't hold out. I think the Steelers have a good enough OLine and other talent that they don't need him as much as he needs them. But it's more just a 'grab the popcorn' situation for me. (Although I have Connor, and I'm thinking about dropping Chris Ivory for Samuels.)

Seriously. As a fan, I want to see LeVeon Bell just run into the HOF. And he would do that easily with Pitt. And he could win a SB this year with Pitt. $14.5 million as an RB, and he is holding out for money? It is hard to believe. I don't know what his IQ is, whether it is off the charts high or off the charts low, but someone is definitely in his head. And after hearing his agent in a couple interviews, I wouldn't trust that dude for a second.

 

Grab the popcorn like you said.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

 

 

 

But it's more just a 'grab the popcorn' situation for me.

Lucky for us, as soon as the Bell drama concludes, we should see this spin off into a David Johnson saga.

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

It matters a lot if you are a Bell owner, which I am not. If he shows up at least you know he will play for most of the year. If he doesn't show up you gotta believe you will only have him for the last few games of the FF season. Ouch.

 

If you drafted a week and a half ago, how far would you had let him drop before you would pick him?

 

Round 3 or 4. There's tons of guys.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Lucky for us, as soon as the Bell drama concludes, we should see this spin off into a David Johnson saga.

I put David Johnson as one of the highest character dudes in the league. I do not expect it to go quite like this. He may get franchised for a year like Bell, which the team would be smart to do unless they can come to a real agreement. I wonder what they offered Johnson so far? Probably low balled him big time knowing they have at least three more years of reasonably priced control. I would lock that dude up if I were the Cards before his price spikes even more though.

[seafoam1 1,879]

I put David Johnson as one of the highest character dudes in the league. I do not expect it to go quite like this. He may get franchised for a year like Bell, which the team would be smart to do unless they can come to a real agreement. I wonder what they offered Johnson so far? Probably low balled him big time knowing they have at least three more years of reasonably priced control. I would lock that dude up if I were the Cards before his price spikes even more though.

And to think, although he missed a year from injury, it was a wrist. So he has only 2 years of workload on his treads. He is my favorite RB since Payton. What a good guy on top of being great at what he does. You can throw guys like Robbie Anderson to the wolves for all I care.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

I put David Johnson as one of the highest character dudes in the league. I do not expect it to go quite like this. He may get franchised for a year like Bell, which the team would be smart to do unless they can come to a real agreement. I wonder what they offered Johnson so far? Probably low balled him big time knowing they have at least three more years of reasonably priced control. I would lock that dude up if I were the Cards before his price spikes even more though.

Rumor has it that he wanted Gurley money and the Cardinals feel that Gurley is younger and doesn't have the injury history of Johnson. Once Fitz retires, Bradford and the dead weight Olineman contracts off the books, they'll probably open up the talks a bit. The problem for Johnson is that he is already pretty old and by the time his tag years are up he's going to be close to 30. The Cardinals could use his good years on the cheap and throw him out. The only advantage Johnson has is that he's eligible for an extension when the rest of the offense should be young and cheap.... The CBA screwed top level RBs.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Rumor has it that he wanted Gurley money and the Cardinals feel that Gurley is younger and doesn't have the injury history of Johnson. Once Fitz retires, Bradford and the dead weight Olineman contracts off the books, they'll probably open up the talks a bit. The problem for Johnson is that he is already pretty old and by the time his tag years are up he's going to be close to 30. The Cardinals could use his good years on the cheap and throw him out. The only advantage Johnson has is that he's eligible for an extension when the rest of the offense should be young and cheap.... The CBA screwed top level RBs.

More miles on Gurley maybe? Johnson was older coming into the league. Idk exactly how it works with lower mileage players who are a little older. Injury history? I don't know if I can buy that. Gurley has an acl tear to his name. Johnson had a freak fractured wrist that shouldn't effect his ability in the slightest. Plus, Johnson is a flat out better RB. Gurley is good, but he needs an open offense that can take heat off of him. He is not the best at finding his own holes, so he relies on his athleticism much more. Johnson is a patient RB who can pick his way through traffic, much better vision than Gurley. I get not paying RBs so the team doesn't need real reasons for me to understand why they aren't going to pay a RB, but it's a little insulting if they really used injury history as justification.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Rumor has it that Bell signed with Kawhi Leonards agent, aka "Uncle Dennis" and is getting his career advice from that focktard.

 

Ok, kidding of course. Reality is this: Bell isn't making a stand for running backs, he's not trying to get the position back to that among the higher paid ones in the game and he's not paving the road for next generation of backs. He's trying to line his pockets, plain and simple. He's doing so at the expense of a team with a legitimate shot at a SB and doing so in a way that undermines the unity of the team. It was wrong of the players on the team to speak up the way they did, but I'm sort of glad they made the effort. It's ridiculous drama on a team that has too much of it too often and doesn't need the distractions. I would LOVE to Conner tear it up this weekend with like a 200 yds combined game and a couple of TD's and watch ALL bargaining power that Bell has FLY RIGHT OUT THE FOCKIN WINDOW. I'd love to see it cost Bell half of what he "thinks" he's worth.

[DonS 3,067]

Rumor has it that Bell signed with Kawhi Leonards agent, aka "Uncle Dennis" and is getting his career advice from that focktard.

 

Ok, kidding of course. Reality is this: Bell isn't making a stand for running backs, he's not trying to get the position back to that among the higher paid ones in the game and he's not paving the road for next generation of backs. He's trying to line his pockets, plain and simple. He's doing so at the expense of a team with a legitimate shot at a SB and doing so in a way that undermines the unity of the team. It was wrong of the players on the team to speak up the way they did, but I'm sort of glad they made the effort. It's ridiculous drama on a team that has too much of it too often and doesn't need the distractions. I would LOVE to Conner tear it up this weekend with like a 200 yds combined game and a couple of TD's and watch ALL bargaining power that Bell has FLY RIGHT OUT THE FOCKIN WINDOW. I'd love to see it cost Bell half of what he "thinks" he's worth.

 

As someone who is starting Conner in my FLEX I would be just fine with this outcome.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Rumor has it that Bell signed with Kawhi Leonards agent, aka "Uncle Dennis" and is getting his career advice from that focktard.

 

Ok, kidding of course. Reality is this: Bell isn't making a stand for running backs, he's not trying to get the position back to that among the higher paid ones in the game and he's not paving the road for next generation of backs. He's trying to line his pockets, plain and simple. He's doing so at the expense of a team with a legitimate shot at a SB and doing so in a way that undermines the unity of the team. It was wrong of the players on the team to speak up the way they did, but I'm sort of glad they made the effort. It's ridiculous drama on a team that has too much of it too often and doesn't need the distractions. I would LOVE to Conner tear it up this weekend with like a 200 yds combined game and a couple of TD's and watch ALL bargaining power that Bell has FLY RIGHT OUT THE FOCKIN WINDOW. I'd love to see it cost Bell half of what he "thinks" he's worth.

Good point. Even when Bell has missed games, the Steelers backs have been highly productive. Suppose Connor goes out and lights it up and becomes the latest Bell sub to produce great numbers. Any chance that hurts Bells long term value in free agency? Is he risking looking like a talented back, but one whos stats have been inflated by the system he is in?

[wizbang 10]

Seriously. As a fan, I want to see LeVeon Bell just run into the HOF. And he would do that easily with Pitt. And he could win a SB this year with Pitt. $14.5 million as an RB, and he is holding out for money? It is hard to believe. I don't know what his IQ is, whether it is off the charts high or off the charts low, but someone is definitely in his head. And after hearing his agent in a couple interviews, I wouldn't trust that dude for a second.

 

Grab the popcorn like you said.

He’s holding out because Pittsburgh didn’t even pretend their intention was anything other than running him until the wheels fall off (destroying his FA value) and then promptly cutting him in the offseason.

[Kent 228]

Hes holding out because Pittsburgh didnt even pretend their intention was anything other than running him until the wheels fall off (destroying his FA value) and then promptly cutting him in the offseason.

Goes both ways. Hes in a position to make 14.5 because he got a lot of shots every week.

 

If they had made him part of a committee his numbers arent anything near what they are now.

[seafoam1 1,879]

Hes holding out because Pittsburgh didnt even pretend their intention was anything other than running him until the wheels fall off (destroying his FA value) and then promptly cutting him in the offseason.

That's his job to run the ball for the Steelers. And he is getting paid accordingly. How many RBs will make $14.5 million this year?Carlos Hyde is a very good proven RB and he is making $5 million. Not a bad salary at all. But it's not 14.5.

[Raider 84 29]

As a Raider fan I hope he sits out

[phillygrrl08 139]

First of all, it warmed my heart to see seafoam and Brother behave in such a civil manner. Yay to both of you!

 

Second, would a Lamar Miller or Alex Collins be a good offer to the Bell owner who doesn't own Conner?

[tanatastic 2,061]

First of all, it warmed my heart to see seafoam and Brother behave in such a civil manner. Yay to both of you!

 

Second, would a Lamar Miller or Alex Collins be a good offer to the Bell owner who doesn't own Conner?

Bell owners won’t just chalk it up to a loss and have a fire sale. They would rather hope and pray. They will want you to gamble on him coming back to form and pay 1st round price. Outside chance maybe they accept an early 2nd rounder but I doubt it.

[SpenceToons 70]

 

Second, would a Lamar Miller or Alex Collins be a good offer to the Bell owner who doesn't own Conner?

 

I have to smile here as I'm a Bell owner (keeper) who drafted Collins, Miller and Conner this year. So I definitely would have been interested in any of the three, and, yeah, I drafted late enough that part of the value of the first two was the knowledge they could help me cover for a Bell no-show.

[Drizzay 645]

If I was a Bell owner and wanted Conner, I don't know if I would trade one of my other RB's. Kinda defeats the purpose.

[SpenceToons 70]

Ah, reading tanatastic's post, i have to make a clarification. I was assuming she'd be offering Collins or Miller in exchange for a high WR2 or low WR1 that i might be holding that she was particularly interested in. As i'm in a keeper league the price would be very steep for Bell. If things turned out so that he would be rolling into 2019 as Garoppolo's PPR RB, I'd be pumped to the moon and would gladly accept my 2018 keeper decision as a sunk cost. I've suffered through Bell suspensions and season long injuries in the past and have still managed to do quite well.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Good point. Even when Bell has missed games, the Steelers backs have been highly productive. Suppose Connor goes out and lights it up and becomes the latest Bell sub to produce great numbers. Any chance that hurts Bells long term value in free agency? Is he risking looking like a talented back, but one whos stats have been inflated by the system he is in?

I would think it has to. Look at the stats DeAngelo Williams put up when Bell was out. Hell, he was leading the league in rushing after one stint and was the 2nd highest scoring RB in fantasy after another. Bell is playing with HOF QB, HOF WR, all Rookie team WR and a great offensive line. Weapons everywhere. And last year after Shazier went out a defense that couldn't stop anyone. The success he's set up for is nuts, and here's hoping that Conner sees it the same way.