Vegas: Your Game of Choice

[cmh6476 748]

I'd play craps all day and night but I'm too cheap and don't like losing my money.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

 

yes good players, but that is roughly 5% give or take, but the majority of players playing 2 hands, are happy winning 1 and play to win 1

 

any player playing 2 hands should honestly be happy to win 1 of them on any given deal. doesn't mean they are playing simply to win 1 hand. Even your average guy who knows most basic strat isnt going to hit 21 on his first hand and then stand on 15 on his next hand with the dealer showing 10.....

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

 

any player playing 2 hands should honestly be happy to win 1 of them on any given deal. doesn't mean they are playing simply to win 1 hand. Even your average guy who knows most basic strat isnt going to hit 21 on his first hand and then stand on 15 on his next hand with the dealer showing 10.....

 

not exactly what I am talking about, and honestly, less then 1/4 of the players use basic strategy. Even the ones that think they do, quite frankly don't. I see it every day, dozens of times a day, people who think they play basic strategy, not splitting 9's and staying on soft 18.

 

what I am talking about is the guy with 16 on hand A, and 11 on hand B, staying against a 7+ because he thinks the next card is a picture. Taking Even money cause he has a bad hand on hand 2 etc

[Kanil 519]

I have an opposite story. A buddy of mine as he was leaving the casino put all his remaining chips on a number. It hit and the dealer pushes over 5K. He is like ???. Didn't realize he had $100 chip among them and never would have played it if he had known.

Went with a buddy once when we were in college and we're leaving a cafe in the Monte Carlo casino and he realizes he has 4 quarters left in his pocket. He puts them in a slot machine and hits for $11... takes his slip to the cage and gets his $. Puts it in a slot machine and hits it for $200... takes the slip to the cage and gets $200. As we're walking out we walk past a roulette table and he says he's going to put it all down. Like any good friend I tell him, "always bet on black", he puts it all on red and flips me off. Hits red. Takes his $400 in chips to the same girl in the cage. Turned his $1 into $400 in about 8 minutes. He bought dinner that night.

[Bier Meister 1,512]

not a big gambler. i'll play some blackjack (i like the switch game; and like to play 2 hands when i can), some craps, some video poker. during a trip 3-4 years ago around 3-4am we were all dragging a little and just wanted to camp a little bit before deciding what to do next. sat at a pai gow table and loved it. can play for hours.

[Djgb13 2,338]

Maybe it's cause I haven't been to Vegas but twice. Never played enough to worry about getting a room comped

[wiffleball 4,631]

Big fan of Uno. Hard to fond a table thouigh.

[jerryskids 5,172]

 

basically, if you are playing basic strategy and ANYONE else is playing with you, you will lose, regardless of how well they play.

 

your optimal situation is 1v1 against the house, in a single deck or double deck table. It gives true odds.

 

for every person at the table the house odds increase by 1.5 % roughly, which is why you shouldn't play 2 hands either. Its not only mathematically decreasing your win %, its also mentally messing with your mind, because the human brain will automatically play 2 hands like this.

 

 

I still don't follow the math here, please help me to understand why each additional player decreases my odds, since I'm not playing against them.

[Djgb13 2,338]

Went with a buddy once when we were in college and we're leaving a cafe in the Monte Carlo casino and he realizes he has 4 quarters left in his pocket. He puts them in a slot machine and hits for $11... takes his slip to the cage and gets his $. Puts it in a slot machine and hits it for $200... takes the slip to the cage and gets $200. As we're walking out we walk past a roulette table and he says he's going to put it all down. Like any good friend I tell him, "always bet on black", he puts it all on red and flips me off. Hits red. Takes his $400 in chips to the same girl in the cage. Turned his $1 into $400 in about 8 minutes. He bought dinner that night.

Shoulda had him buy a lotto ticket that night as well.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

 

I still don't follow the math here, please help me to understand why each additional player decreases my odds, since I'm not playing against them.

 

I don't neccesarily think that your implied odds change, simply stating the numbers we have compiled over the past couple years

[jerryskids 5,172]

 

I don't neccesarily think that your implied odds change, simply stating the numbers we have compiled over the past couple years

 

OK, this is different than I thought. Who is "we" and are you stating that your premise is based on empirical data vs. theoretical odds?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

 

OK, this is different than I thought. Who is "we" and are you stating that your premise is based on empirical data vs. theoretical odds?

 

we is the casino I work for, and yes it is based off data, the take based off the last 18 months is 9% greater per 100$ than a 1v1 situation

[penultimatestraw 473]

we is the casino I work for, and yes it is based off data, the take based off the last 18 months is 9% greater per 100$ than a 1v1 situation

How do you determine who/how much to comp? I figure all these nimrods bragging about free rooms, etc. have lost more than tenfold the value of things they receive for "free".

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

 

I still don't follow the math here, please help me to understand why each additional player decreases my odds, since I'm not playing against them.

 

it doesn't. it's just some data, supposedly, from the casino he works at. even though he first stated it as a fact that casinos don't want players to know about.

 

if the data is actually true, there must be some other difference between the single player tables and the full tables. something like the single player tables are not continuous shuffle machines or they play less decks. the casino i frequent has a mixture of regular shoes and continuous shuffle machine tables. I avoid the machines as any counter would. Also, the single and double deck tables are limited to higher minimum bets like $50 minimum. I personally stick to regular shuffle 10-15 minimum tables even though I regularly bet more than that minimum... i just like being able to ramp down as low as possible when the count goes greatly in the houses favor.

[Artista 460]

Blackjack

[frank 2,144]

How do you determine who/how much to comp? I figure all these nimrods bragging about free rooms, etc. have lost more than tenfold the value of things they receive for "free".

Casinos have formulas that take into account the house edge of the game, average amount bet, and time playing. This determines your expected loss. They give comps equal to a percentage of that amount.

 

You are right. Most people will lose much more than they make in comps. Comps are not a reason to play. They are just a reward you should take advantage of if you are going to play anyway.

[hoytdwow 202]

That version of pac man that's in a table

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

How do you determine who/how much to comp? I figure all these nimrods bragging about free rooms, etc. have lost more than tenfold the value of things they receive for "free".

 

I know you're not asking me but that's not really how it works. I mean, sure, any given person (and im sure its a lot of people) getting lots of comps could be losing 10X the value of those comps but I'll give a few examples...

 

1. my grandmother plays strictly slot machines. penny slots. she goes to AC 2 times a month and to the Sands in PA maybe every other month. She doesn't get any comps at the Sands but Caesars in AC ALWAYS comps her rooms, buffets, etc. She never loses more than $100 and usually comes back with some sort of profit even if its minimal. She's getting her comps based on how much money she is "cycling" through the slot machines.... whether she wins or loses. So its all about how often she visits and how much she plays.

 

2. people playing higher stakes table games who start winning BIG will often be comped a room or a meal in an effort to encourage them to keep playing so that eventually the house can take it all back. Give them a reason to stay at your casino and the likelihood of them cashing their profits and leaving goes down. Maybe they are only there for the day so you comp them a room to make sure they keep playing into the night. Or maybe they are casino hopping...

[jerryskids 5,172]

 

we is the casino I work for, and yes it is based off data, the take based off the last 18 months is 9% greater per 100$ than a 1v1 situation

Fascinating. I'm guessing that major casinos don't just accept such analyses without math to back them up. So I'm back to my question of why a 1v1 situation helps the gambler. I have some theories although I don't think the benefits are nearly what you stated from your empirical analysis.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I know you're not asking me but that's not really how it works. I mean, sure, any given person (and im sure its a lot of people) getting lots of comps could be losing 10X the value of those comps but I'll give a few examples...

 

1. my grandmother plays strictly slot machines. penny slots. she goes to AC 2 times a month and to the Sands in PA maybe every other month. She doesn't get any comps at the Sands but Caesars in AC ALWAYS comps her rooms, buffets, etc. She never loses more than $100 and usually comes back with some sort of profit even if its minimal. She's getting her comps based on how much money she is "cycling" through the slot machines.... whether she wins or loses. So its all about how often she visits and how much she plays.

 

2. people playing higher stakes table games who start winning BIG will often be comped a room or a meal in an effort to encourage them to keep playing so that eventually the house can take it all back. Give them a reason to stay at your casino and the likelihood of them cashing their profits and leaving goes down. Maybe they are only there for the day so you comp them a room to make sure they keep playing into the night. Or maybe they are casino hopping...

So it sounds like it is more prospective than retrospective - comps are based on how much you are predicted to spend, not what you have lost already. If you actually value the time spent gambling that may be a good deal, but I'd rather skip the casino and cut out the middleman manipulating me to spend more on sh!t they designate.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

So it sounds like it is more prospective than retrospective - comps are based on how much you are predicted to spend, not what you have lost already. If you actually value the time spent gambling that may be a good deal, but I'd rather skip the casino and cut out the middleman manipulating me to spend more on sh!t they designate.

 

well, to go back to the example of my grandmother, she enjoys going to the casino. used to go with my grandfather back when he was still alive and now she goes once a month with her friend and once a month on a senior bus trip with some people she knows. She would enjoy going with or without comps, so anything she gets from the casino is just a bonus. Not having to pay $79 or whatever it is for a room is a bonus. Not having to pay 25-30 for the buffet is a bonus. So are the comp dollars she gets which is basically a printed out voucher for 10, 20, 30 etc that must be cycled through a machine once before you can cash it out. There are times she has gone and not had to play any of her own money because she takes the 20 casino voucher, plays 20 worth of "spins" on the machine, gets that 20 dollars up to 50 or 60 dollars and plays that money the rest of the day at other slot machines and ends up coming home with 200. and after she cashes out of the first machine and moves to new machines, shes earning comps.

 

when the Sands first opened up in the lehigh valley PA, myself and a few friends used to hit it up maybe every other week before meeting up with a larger group of people at a bar. they didn't have table games yet so we played video blackjack... the 5 or 6 person machine with the fake dealer on the big screen.... min bet was 5 dollars and i'd usually put 40 in the machine. I probably made 2 grand during the time we did that. never lost more than 40 in a night and would sometimes win 300+. I ended up having a TON of comp dollars which were usable at any of the restaurants or bars inside the casino and the gift shop too.

 

comps are a lot better for slot and machine play than table play which makes sense since the machine is keep track of how much $ you cycle where as at a table you're relying on the pit boss who is just basically making a note of your average bet size and how long you were at the table.. what you bought in for etc...

[Mile High Drunk 13]

Vegas has turned into such a bean counter, horseshiot ripoff, I can barely justify going any more.

$35 resort tax per night? Fock that. Even if you find a deal on a room for $45, you're still paying $80 a night.

Even 15 years ago, you could get a prime rib dinner for $5 from a lot of places. Good luck finding that under $25 now.

Even the airlines have completely changed. Used to be able to find round trips under $200 from most places in the midwest. I was looking LAST FALL for March Madness deals. Already had those weeks marked up 3-4 times whether you use cash or miles.

As if the place isn't enough of a money pit with the gambling rakes, you now have to pay a premium on everything else, too.

Fock Vegas.

I was looking for tickets for mid March and couldn't get decent flight for under 400. Going in early April as well, 530am flight out with a 945pm return still costed over 300. I remember flights being like 150 round trip on frontier or sw. The resort fee is also lame.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I was looking for tickets for mid March and couldn't get decent flight for under 400. Going in early April as well, 530am flight out with a 945pm return still costed over 300. I remember flights being like 150 round trip on frontier or sw. The resort fee is also lame.

Nature of the beast. It's the same here in Asia. Macau, the Vegas of China, is always an expensive flight and hotel. Even worse than Hong Kong.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

Fascinating. I'm guessing that major casinos don't just accept such analyses without math to back them up. So I'm back to my question of why a 1v1 situation helps the gambler. I have some theories although I don't think the benefits are nearly what you stated from your empirical analysis.

 

I am not in charge of the math or analyses behind it, I just know the numbers we have discovered, I turn them in nightly. We are a major casino, one of the biggest (revenue) if not thee biggest in the state of California, our last check only had Foxwoods and an unnamed casino ahead of us fwiw.

 

I personally always had the theory that one on one gives a more true probability even though I don't know if its true, but something simple like playing single deck 1v1 your probability of getting 2 aces from the deck is higher than 50% per shuffle. With 7 players that number drops significantly, so your + potential from 3:2 blackjacks is limited substantially

[the newb 23]

 

You are right. Most people will lose much more than they make in comps. Comps are not a reason to play. They are just a reward you should take advantage of if you are going to play anyway.

Yes

[nzoner 936]

Comps are not a reason to play. They are just a reward you should take advantage of if you are going to play anyway.

Exactly

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Black jack. I will hang out at the craps table if there is a group that I am hanging with, but I usually don't even bet, never mind throwing.

[TD Ryan2 314]

I always assume my money will be gone once I start in the casino.

The question always come up in my head:

get rich quick vs. skill/grinding to make hundreds, maybe a thousand or two?

 

and although I'm a blackjack player and know basic strategy and have friends that were part of the MIT/.Bringing Down The House group and love it and all that... it's work... in the end, I just don't enjoy sitting at any table, grinding away, to hopefully come out with a few hundred bucks.

 

The allure of hitting big on a slot machine, or hitting the "greens" on roulette is so much more enticing and fun. I admit it, I want to walk into the casino, hit huge, and walk out knowing my whole vacation is paid for and maybe more.

 

[edjr 5,547]

I am racist, I play WhiteJack

[TD Ryan2 314]

I am racist, I play WhiteJack

you know... now that you bring it up... I've never met a black guy named "Jack".

[Bert 1,087]

I always assume my money will be gone once I start in the casino.

The question always come up in my head:

get rich quick vs. skill/grinding to make hundreds, maybe a thousand or two?

 

and although I'm a blackjack player and know basic strategy and have friends that were part of the MIT/.Bringing Down The House group and love it and all that... it's work... in the end, I just don't enjoy sitting at any table, grinding away, to hopefully come out with a few hundred bucks.

 

The allure of hitting big on a slot machine, or hitting the "greens" on roulette is so much more enticing and fun. I admit it, I want to walk into the casino, hit huge, and walk out knowing my whole vacation is paid for and maybe more.

 

As long as you look at it as entertainment and you can afford it do what you enjoy.

 

How you spend your entertainment dollar is up to you. Some people like disney world, some like ski trips or some mountain hiking adventure thing and some like las vegas.

[penultimatestraw 473]

As long as you look at it as entertainment and you can afford it do what you enjoy.

 

How you spend your entertainment dollar is up to you. Some people like disney world, some like ski trips or some mountain hiking adventure thing and some like las vegas.

And some like mountain climbing in Vegas. But I agree 100%.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

I always assume my money will be gone once I start in the casino.

The question always come up in my head:

get rich quick vs. skill/grinding to make hundreds, maybe a thousand or two?

 

and although I'm a blackjack player and know basic strategy and have friends that were part of the MIT/.Bringing Down The House group and love it and all that... it's work... in the end, I just don't enjoy sitting at any table, grinding away, to hopefully come out with a few hundred bucks.

 

The allure of hitting big on a slot machine, or hitting the "greens" on roulette is so much more enticing and fun. I admit it, I want to walk into the casino, hit huge, and walk out knowing my whole vacation is paid for and maybe more.

 

The serous card counters that do real "grinding" are not doing it for a few hundred bucks profit. Their bets per hand are a few hundred. They have bigger bankrolls to play with and can absorb big losses in the short term until the law of large numbers swings in their favor.

 

Not sure what you consider grinding. I don't think I grind when I go to the casino amd play blackjack. I'll usually play 3 hours at the most and if I make 2 or 3 hundred then I'm making 70-100 per hour. Which is not uncommon when I play.

 

Of course sometimes I lose 1-200. Never more. And sometimes I only win 50 dollars. In those situations in just say "whatever, I paid for entertainment and I'm still up in the long term."

 

In terms of hitting it big there have been a few occasions where I've been up 6 or 7 hundred and I'll throw it all down on one hand. It's a it play. If I lose I'm no worse off than when I started and if I win I'm up a quick 12-1400.

[nzoner 936]

 

well, to go back to the example of my grandmother, she enjoys going to the casino. used to go with my grandfather back when he was still alive and now she goes once a month with her friend and once a month on a senior bus trip with some people she knows. She would enjoy going with or without comps, so anything she gets from the casino is just a bonus. Not having to pay $79 or whatever it is for a room is a bonus. Not having to pay 25-30 for the buffet is a bonus. So are the comp dollars she gets which is basically a printed out voucher for 10, 20, 30 etc that must be cycled through a machine once before you can cash it out. There are times she has gone and not had to play any of her own money because she takes the 20 casino voucher, plays 20 worth of "spins" on the machine, gets that 20 dollars up to 50 or 60 dollars and plays that money the rest of the day at other slot machines and ends up coming home with 200. and after she cashes out of the first machine and moves to new machines, shes earning comps.

 

when the Sands first opened up in the lehigh valley PA, myself and a few friends used to hit it up maybe every other week before meeting up with a larger group of people at a bar. they didn't have table games yet so we played video blackjack... the 5 or 6 person machine with the fake dealer on the big screen.... min bet was 5 dollars and i'd usually put 40 in the machine. I probably made 2 grand during the time we did that. never lost more than 40 in a night and would sometimes win 300+. I ended up having a TON of comp dollars which were usable at any of the restaurants or bars inside the casino and the gift shop too.

 

comps are a lot better for slot and machine play than table play which makes sense since the machine is keep track of how much $ you cycle where as at a table you're relying on the pit boss who is just basically making a note of your average bet size and how long you were at the table.. what you bought in for etc...

Good explanation,personally I stay loyal to Caesar's/Harrah's properties because my tier score accumulates at any of their properties and my rewards credits are good at any of them.What's really great(based on state laws) is that some states,like Iowa,can comp free drinks to diamond members and above whether they're gambling or not,unlike Missouri where I have to pay for drinks no matter.

[Bert 1,087]

some states,like Iowa,can comp free drinks to diamond members and above whether they're gambling or not,

Godbless the Diamond lounges in Vegas.

[nzoner 936]

Godbless the Diamond lounges in Vegas.

I'd also add Council Bluffs and New Orleans

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Good explanation,personally I stay loyal to Caesar's/Harrah's properties because my tier score accumulates at any of their properties and my rewards credits are good at any of them.What's really great(based on state laws) is that some states,like Iowa,can comp free drinks to diamond members and above whether they're gambling or not,unlike Missouri where I have to pay for drinks no matter.

On this same note my grandmother has a diamond card so she can go in to the diamond club with 1 guest (she took me once or twice) and the food in there is free as well as the drinks. Good mixed drinks not what they serve you on the casino floor.

[LOD01 185]

I'd play craps all day and night but I'm too cheap and don't like losing my money.

Craps bubble machine is for you. Actually it's for anyone that wants to have the best chance to win at table games as long as you bet the correct way.

 

3 days, I had 7 'hot' rolls. At the machine, a hot roll is 20 rolls before losing the dice. I saw another 4-5. One of them was so fuckin unreal I was shaking my head. At least 50 rolls. I never see that at a real table. if you hold the dice for 15 rolls, that huge. There is nothing better than the Craps bubble machine where you push the button. Was even until last day because I made so many crazy gambles every time I got a little ahead.

 

New York New York has a 5x odds machine.

 

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

Let it ride I found out has the worst odds in any game. I won I think about 3k on my honeymoon...hit 4 of a kind with the bonus dollar.

 

I like 3 card poker for sure...1-2 NL hold em and ill play some slots with my wife. Never win though.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Craps or slots.