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#1 redsrback

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 02:28 PM

Dont like it, all the players should be forced to come out for it. Fine the player and let the fans punish him by not buying his jersey, and judgeing him as a person if he takes the knee. Owners shouldn't be the victims of what they cant control without political fall-out. I pay my price for my ticket, I deserve the right to see the whole show.



#2 seafoam1

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:04 PM

I'm with you. I hate that these guys are able to bring this into the entertainment industry.

If they really care, why don't they put some money together and take out commercials or social/political public service anouncements during breaks or whatever to try to get across whatever point they are trying to make. Keep it out of the actual pre-game/game/post-game entertainment that is a part of football.

Can you imagine going to see Solo this weekend and at the opening credits of the movie they add in filming of a few actors protesting something right in the movie?

#3 cbfalcon

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:05 PM

Agreed. Stand for the anthem and protest during the game itself instead with a hand signal or something after every play.

 

Much more effective in that it's not during a commercial break before people are even watching.....and now that it's not connected to the anthem at all, the media can't hoodwink the hillbillies into thinking the players are pretesting against the troops.


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#4 redsrback

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:09 PM

Agreed. Stand for the anthem and protest during the game itself instead with a hand signal or something after every play.

 

Much more effective in that it's not during a commercial break before people are even watching.....and now that it's not connected to the anthem at all, the media can't hoodwink the hillbillies into thinking the players are pretesting against the troops.

Not sure what your trying to say CB ?



#5 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:36 PM

Not sure what your trying to say CB ?

Pretty sure he's saying they should find a way to protest in a way that can't be misconstrued as disrespectful to our armed forces. A less divisive way may get their message across without creating the polarizing view points which has caused some to completely ignore the potential valid reasons why they are protesting. 



#6 cbfalcon

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:53 PM

Pretty sure he's saying they should find a way to protest in a way that can't be misconstrued as disrespectful to our armed forces. A less divisive way may get their message across without creating the polarizing view points which has caused some to completely ignore the potential valid reasons why they are protesting. 

 

Good post.


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#7 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 04:15 PM

Pretty sure he's saying they should find a way to protest in a way that can't be misconstrued as disrespectful to our armed forces. A less divisive way may get their message across without creating the polarizing view points which has caused some to completely ignore the potential valid reasons why they are protesting. 

 

STOP INJECTING COMMON SENSE AND LOGIC!!!!



#8 seafoam1

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:02 PM

Agreed. Stand for the anthem and protest during the game itself instead with a hand signal or something after every play.
 
Much more effective in that it's not during a commercial break before people are even watching.....and now that it's not connected to the anthem at all, the media can't hoodwink the hillbillies into thinking the players are pretesting against the troops.

Yeah, and let's have actors protest throughout movies. And what have these protests done to change what you do daily? Do it on your own time and on your own dime. It's idiotic doing it at work. I'm glad kaepernick is gone.

#9 cbfalcon

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:36 PM

Yeah, and let's have actors protest throughout movies. And what have these protests done to change what you do daily? Do it on your own time and on your own dime. It's idiotic doing it at work. I'm glad kaepernick is gone.


I hear ya. It offends me that they let the players talk about God. They should preach on their own time and own dime. After all, we dont let actors stray from the script and start talking about their religious views.
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#10 seafoam1

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:56 PM

I hear ya. It offends me that they let the players talk about God. They should preach on their own time and own dime. After all, we dont let actors stray from the script and start talking about their religious views.

They aren't preaching God or otherwise. They are asked questions in interviews and some of them thank God. They are not kneeling during the anthem to protest athiests or religious people. They can believe whatever they want, but if they are condemning others for what others know as the truth, do it on their own time.

Seems many people don't believe in the rights of private corporations or even know what they are.

Your leader Nancy Pelosi came out and said this is a 1st amendment issue. She has been in government for over 700 years and doesn't even know what the 1st amendment is.

#11 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:46 AM

I heard some people got shot in Chicago last night. I'm up for protesting that.

#12 seafoam1

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:57 AM

I heard some people got shot in Chicago last night. I'm up for protesting that.


Nobody wants to protest against thugs killing people, only against cops who shoot criminals that are putting the cops lives in danger.

#13 redsrback

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 02:04 AM

I heard some people got shot in Chicago last night. I'm up for protesting that.

They made a song out of it.



#14 Ray_T

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 10:14 PM

boy the NFL is dumb.  

 

I truly think if they would have done nothing, the issue would have died.  but now that they've fired the shot across the bow  and passed this dumb rule. 

 

I think they have just escalated an issue that was dying down.

 

I could see a lot of players kneeling just because the rule was put in place.   I know I sure would.


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#15 redsrback

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 02:31 AM

Pretty sure he's saying they should find a way to protest in a way that can't be misconstrued as disrespectful to our armed forces. A less divisive way may get their message across without creating the polarizing view points which has caused some to completely ignore the potential valid reasons why they are protesting. 

The stats for crimes committed don't make it a valid reason, therefore its hatred of cops. Now if you accept this as an acceptable or a persons right then your saying all hatred should be tolerated. Maybe the answer is getting permission from the city and having marches at half-time.

 

Either way this wasn't going away, the trains left the station. Fantasy football has carried the NFL for nearly 3 decades and now the players and the game changing will make it regress. I'm not saying to the extent of nascar, but fans spoke out last year and forced the hand of Roger Goodell. Goodell tried hard to close his eyes and hoping it would go away. His biggest mistake was not taking action right away against the players which caused the cancer to spread.



#16 cbfalcon

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 03:40 AM

boy the NFL is dumb.  
 
I truly think if they would have done nothing, the issue would have died.  but now that they've fired the shot across the bow  and passed this dumb rule. 
 
I think they have just escalated an issue that was dying down.
 
I could see a lot of players kneeling just because the rule was put in place.   I know I sure would.


I read that by week 17 last season, only 7 players in the entire league were still kneeling. It was basically a non issue, but the league couldnt leave it alone.
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#17 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 08:31 AM

The stats for crimes committed don't make it a valid reason, therefore its hatred of cops. Now if you accept this as an acceptable or a persons right then your saying all hatred should be tolerated. Maybe the answer is getting permission from the city and having marches at half-time.
 
Either way this wasn't going away, the trains left the station. Fantasy football has carried the NFL for nearly 3 decades and now the players and the game changing will make it regress. I'm not saying to the extent of nascar, but fans spoke out last year and forced the hand of Roger Goodell. Goodell tried hard to close his eyes and hoping it would go away. His biggest mistake was not taking action right away against the players which caused the cancer to spread.

To your first point, I believe 99% of cops are great and I do not envy the split second life or death situations they are forced to make. However, each case needs to be looked at individually and there have been cases where a cop has abused his power. I also believe there are systemic problems that have caused a lot of the inner cities to become the crime infested areas they have now are. Poor education and other socio economic problems have created and harbored an inner city culture that has made it difficult for individuals to rise from. It's not to excuse the crimes being committed, but we have to acknowledge that it's easier for some people to make the right decisions and prosper in this country than others.

Fantasy has really only carried the NFL for the past 5-10 years. It's responsible for the billion dollar corporation but not the 30 year growth.

#18 DC

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 08:47 AM

Elsewhere, people are saying the new policy violates 1st Amendment 'Freedom of Speech'.  But those views are misguided. I work for a company. In my job, I teach/train groups, individuals and do marketing events before dozens of people sometimes over a hundred. Are the non-legal eagles really trying to tell me that I have the "right" to spout my political opinions to these students, trainees and groups while I perform my job? And that when my employer tells me that I "can't do so while on the job and that I must just stick to what I am supposed to be doing", that it would be violating my 1st amendment rights?   WHAT NONSENSE.  Such a view is legally incorrect, per the US Supreme Court, multiple times.  
 
The football field during the anthem is the players' workplace, and the owners of the business can control, and always will be allowed to control, what its employees do and say while on the job. My employer can't tell me what to do or say in my own time, but while I am on the job, it can limit what I do and say and that is perfectly legal and within the boundaries of the 1st Amendment. And that has already been stated by the Supreme Court quite some time ago. 
 
Rich729, a friend of mine here is a high school math teacher. So are all those people screaming "violation of 1st Amendment"  honestly telling us that the 1st Amendment gives him the right to spout political opinions in between teaching his class how to factor quadratic equations and the pythagorean theory? I think not. 
 
I am not a conservative republican by the way.  Not even close.  But those people saying this is some kind of violation of free speech are totally wrong. There is no "right" to display your protests or political opinions while you are on the job if your employer forbids it.  After the game... out of uniform... well sure... say whatever you want, kneel whenever you want. If you are a fan in the stands and you want to sit or kneel during the anthem, well go ahead... that is your right (even though it is highly disrespectful of others, IMO).  But if you are a player, coach, equipment manager or even water boy.. you are on the job, my friend, and your employer calls the shots. And the Supreme Court has said so multiple times.
 
So, to the players crying "1st Amendment violation", if you're wearing pads and on the field in front of 70,000 peple, no f'king way. 


#19 The PosterFormerlyKnownAs

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:14 AM

Agree that the NFL has made a mountain out of a molehill that was already eroding back to flat ground. IMO, they should have either done nothing or worked with the broadcasters to treat the kneeling like they do fans that run into the field, court etc ... no visual imagery, and only mention if necessary. But anyone who thinks NFL supports free expression hasnt been paying attention ... penalties or fines for messages sent through equipment, on field celebrations, comments at press conferences, extramural activities by players and cheerleaders ,,, just like many jobs, the NFL comes with expectations that limit personal freedom.

The new rule has a massive loophole that I hope some players exploit ... go ahead and take the penalty, get the team fined and get more coverage than you would have before. And then sue the NFL for breach of collective bargaining if you are penalised as a player for doing it. Great way to get paid without the concussion damage.

#20 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:26 AM

Just to be clear, I understand and agree that the NFL teams can do whatever they want as the employers. The new rule to my understanding is the NFL has left it up to the teams to make their policy, but they can be fined for what their employees do. The teams can then create a policy that either accepts the players ability to protest and take on the fines as an organization or the team will not allow the players to protest and can fine or suspend under the conduct detrimental to a team clause in the collective bargaining agreement.

#21 redsrback

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:44 AM

Only problem saying this was a non-issue was there are conservatives that watch fox news media who showed the actual footage of empty seats and the kneeling. Sports channels made it an issue to begin with untill they figured out they were hurting there brand. Thats when they stopped showing people kneeling and empty seats for visual effects to make some people uninformed on the real picture. You don't pizz off 50 per-cent of the country without , probably even more who had somebody close to them die for the flag and think you walk away unscathed.



#22 seafoam1

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:16 AM

Elsewhere, people are saying the new policy violates 1st Amendment 'Freedom of Speech'.  But those views are misguided. I work for a company. In my job, I teach/train groups, individuals and do marketing events before dozens of people sometimes over a hundred. Are the non-legal eagles really trying to tell me that I have the "right" to spout my political opinions to these students, trainees and groups while I perform my job? And that when my employer tells me that I "can't do so while on the job and that I must just stick to what I am supposed to be doing", that it would be violating my 1st amendment rights?   WHAT NONSENSE. 
 
So, to the players crying "1st Amendment violation", if you're wearing pads and on the field in front of 70,000 peple, no f'king way. 

I think half the nation truly believes this is a 1st amendment issue. This either shows a true lack of knowledge or a someone who has an agenda to deceive and prey upon and gain support from those who simply don't know and don't care to know.

Nancy Pelosi, minority leader in the House of Reps, and previous Speaker of the House, when commenting on this situation in the NFL and the players actions in this case, came out in this news conference and stated that players have the RIGHT to protest in that manner and stated "I love the First Amendment, and I'll just leave it at that, I just love the First Amendment."

Pelosi is the type of irresponsible governmental leach that is trying to suck the soul out of the American people because she wants big government and is personally greedy as hell for power and money.

And for all of those who don't know the 1st amendment:

An amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, prohibiting Congress from interfering with freedom of religion, speech, assembly, or petition. The First Amendment has been interpreted by the Supreme Court as applying to the entire federal government even though it is only expressly applicable to Congress.

#23 Ray_T

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:05 PM

I read that by week 17 last season, only 7 players in the entire league were still kneeling. It was basically a non issue, but the league couldnt leave it alone.

THAT was my point.  the issue WAS dying.   Now it is back.   the morons couldnt leave well enough alone.


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#24 seafoam1

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:58 PM

THAT was my point.  the issue WAS dying.   Now it is back.   the morons couldnt leave well enough alone.


True. The guys in the league that had "cared" about this are now into some video game or something. No big deal because there never was an issue. Just a need for attention by a player or two.

#25 phillygrrl08

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 05:33 AM

 

Elsewhere, people are saying the new policy violates 1st Amendment 'Freedom of Speech'.  But those views are misguided. I work for a company. In my job, I teach/train groups, individuals and do marketing events before dozens of people sometimes over a hundred. Are the non-legal eagles really trying to tell me that I have the "right" to spout my political opinions to these students, trainees and groups while I perform my job? And that when my employer tells me that I "can't do so while on the job and that I must just stick to what I am supposed to be doing", that it would be violating my 1st amendment rights?   WHAT NONSENSE.  Such a view is legally incorrect, per the US Supreme Court, multiple times.  
 
The football field during the anthem is the players' workplace, and the owners of the business can control, and always will be allowed to control, what its employees do and say while on the job. My employer can't tell me what to do or say in my own time, but while I am on the job, it can limit what I do and say and that is perfectly legal and within the boundaries of the 1st Amendment. And that has already been stated by the Supreme Court quite some time ago. 
 
Rich729, a friend of mine here is a high school math teacher. So are all those people screaming "violation of 1st Amendment"  honestly telling us that the 1st Amendment gives him the right to spout political opinions in between teaching his class how to factor quadratic equations and the pythagorean theory? I think not. 
 
I am not a conservative republican by the way.  Not even close.  But those people saying this is some kind of violation of free speech are totally wrong. There is no "right" to display your protests or political opinions while you are on the job if your employer forbids it.  After the game... out of uniform... well sure... say whatever you want, kneel whenever you want. If you are a fan in the stands and you want to sit or kneel during the anthem, well go ahead... that is your right (even though it is highly disrespectful of others, IMO).  But if you are a player, coach, equipment manager or even water boy.. you are on the job, my friend, and your employer calls the shots. And the Supreme Court has said so multiple times.
 
So, to the players crying "1st Amendment violation", if you're wearing pads and on the field in front of 70,000 peple, no f'king way. 

 

And that would have been true had POTUS not tweeted about it, called kneeling players SOBs, and said they should be fired because of protests. Now the government is involved and it has become a 1st amendment case.



#26 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 08:41 AM

And that would have been true had POTUS not tweeted about it, called kneeling players SOBs, and said they should be fired because of protests. Now the government is involved and it has become a 1st amendment case.

Employees don't have a first amendment when they're on company time, that's why it's not a first amendment issue.

#27 Raider 84

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:44 PM

They aren't preaching God or otherwise. They are asked questions in interviews and some of them thank God. They are not kneeling during the anthem to protest athiests or religious people. They can believe whatever they want, but if they are condemning others for what others know as the truth, do it on their own time.

Seems many people don't believe in the rights of private corporations or even know what they are.

Your leader Nancy Pelosi came out and said this is a 1st amendment issue. She has been in government for over 700 years and doesn't even know what the 1st amendment is.

LOL Seems like 700 years. She needs to step aside!


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#28 seafoam1

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

And that would have been true had POTUS not tweeted about it, called kneeling players SOBs, and said they should be fired because of protests. Now the government is involved and it has become a 1st amendment case.


How is the government invovled? That is just his personal opinion, which he has a 1st amendment right to state. He isn't bringing them up on charges. Wow. Another person who doesn't know the 1st amendment.

#29 sirensong

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 07:35 PM

Dont like it, all the players should be forced to come out for it. 

 

 

nope.  you don't compel speech--that's the opposite of what the US is about.  it's anti-1st amendment, even though the league isn't a government agency.  i'm a conservative who gets angry about kneeling, but IMO the policy is solid--if you want to be out there, you stand.  if not, stay in the back of the house and do whatever you want. but no one should be forced to make a statemenbt--that's nazi/communist stuff.



#30 seafoam1

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 11:34 PM

 

 

nope.  you don't compel speech--that's the opposite of what the US is about.  it's anti-1st amendment, even though the league isn't a government agency.  i'm a conservative who gets angry about kneeling, but IMO the policy is solid--if you want to be out there, you stand.  if not, stay in the back of the house and do whatever you want. but no one should be forced to make a statemenbt--that's nazi/communist stuff.

Well, the policy now says that the teams are accountable, so I guess it's up to the team to decide if they want players out there or not. Then if a player kneels like some lame idiot, the team pays the bill unless they confront the player.after the fact. 

 

I wonder who started this really dumb way to protest. Was it Kaepernick? That dude is really not that sharp so I believe it. I can hear him now, "Let's protest against something that has nothing to do with what  I am wanting to protest against." Brilliant!! 

 

These protesters are idiots. This is an entertainment industry, nothing else. Why try to muck it up with social/political garbage? Do it on your own dime and own time.

 

If you think about it, protesting a few cops that go over the edge (and some that are only perceived to have gone too far), is like protesting all of humanity. Why not protest the whole south side of Chicago for blacks killing blacks? 

 

I guess Kaepernick, unlike many fine Chicago police officers doesn't want to confront that type of work head on. He wants to kneel on a football field during the anthem. What a hero. 



#31 redsrback

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 03:15 AM

 

 

nope.  you don't compel speech--that's the opposite of what the US is about.  it's anti-1st amendment, even though the league isn't a government agency.  i'm a conservative who gets angry about kneeling, but IMO the policy is solid--if you want to be out there, you stand.  if not, stay in the back of the house and do whatever you want. but no one should be forced to make a statemenbt--that's nazi/communist stuff.

Once again I paid my money for a ticket, but okay whats going to happen? Jets will start whining about things because there owner wants to play politics, but in the end it will be the owner and the players own doing that does them in.



#32 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 07:09 AM

Once again I paid my money for a ticket, but okay whats going to happen? Jets will start whining about things because there owner wants to play politics, but in the end it will be the owner and the players own doing that does them in.


You paid to make sure players are standing during the anthem? That's a little worrisome.

#33 redsrback

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:28 PM

You paid to make sure players are standing during the anthem? That's a little worrisome.

Absolutely I did, I don't get there early to sit with my kids and wife in my younger years, and I want to see everyone doing whats expected. What next, no reason to warm up, just sit in the locker room until you decide your damn ready to come out. Once again I want the whole show. the kids to have the experience to look back with enjoyment that they can pass on. Maybe get an autograph, picture, or something to come home to tell there friends.



#34 cbfalcon

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 08:09 PM

Absolutely I did, I don't get there early to sit with my kids and wife in my younger years, and I want to see everyone doing whats expected. What next, no reason to warm up, just sit in the locker room until you decide your damn ready to come out. Once again I want the whole show. the kids to have the experience to look back with enjoyment that they can pass on. Maybe get an autograph, picture, or something to come home to tell there friends.


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#35 seafoam1

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 08:20 PM

Oh brother


It's entertainment. People can have opinions on what they pay for without others judging them on what they like or not. I personally don't want to see social protests in my entertainment choices either.

#36 weepaws

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 12:47 AM

Hearing the anthem at a live sporting even is very cool.

But I don’t care if the players are on the field at the time or not, heck I do t care if the teams are even in the building.

When I hear that sweet sound of the anthem I don’t even notice who’s around be, I just lost in the moment.

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#37 redsrback

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 03:10 AM

Oh brother

Don't have kids or just never been to a game ?



#38 cbfalcon

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 07:39 AM

It's entertainment. People can have opinions on what they pay for without others judging them on what they like or not. I personally don't want to see social protests in my entertainment choices either.

 

Yes you are right. He can claim he goes to games with the goal of seeing everyone do as he expects before the game starts if he wants. And I get not wanting to see social protests, simply because I don't want to see forced, faked, and often paid for Patriotism that is in large part only present because the leagues know it makes them richer and because the military is actively recruiting.

 

To each their own.....You and he can own your bullshiit fake outrage, and I'll own mine.


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#39 seafoam1

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:23 AM

 
To each their own.....You and he can own your bullshiit fake outrage, and I'll own mine.


I don't have any outrage at all. I don't understand your comments. All I'm saying is that when the coverage of football starts covering protests, either before or after the game, I just turn it off. Same for sports talk radio. If they started protesting at the beginning or end of movies, I wouldn't go see them. You seem angry dude. And if I was outraged, why would you call it fake? So emotional...

#40 cbfalcon

cbfalcon

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:31 AM

I don't have any outrage at all. I don't understand your comments. All I'm saying is that when the coverage of football starts covering protests, either before or after the game, I just turn it off. Same for sports talk radio. If they started protesting at the beginning or end of movies, I wouldn't go see them. You seem angry dude. And if I was outraged, why would you call it fake? So emotional...

 

Nope, I'm not angry at all.

 

If you say the reason you are paying money to go to games is to see people do exactly as you expect during warmups and a song before the game starts, so be it. And with this being The Culture War, you aren't even that rare anymore.


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