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Sorry another Hunt Question: Is Barkley really a no brainer over Hunt ?


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#1 snatchit

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 07:15 PM

Its in a keeper league. I was just thinking I like getting Hunt and having Ware in the wings if he gets hurt... In a Andy Reed O



#2 polecatt

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 07:29 PM

No, Barkley has a garbage OL and Hunt already has a rushing title

Don't put too much stock into the talk about Ware, he's not going to take much if anything away from Hunt



#3 Smileseers

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 09:40 PM

Barkley is more talented than Hunt.  As a Hunt owner last season I had had to send him to the bench mid season because he (and Andy Reid) were killing me.  

 

Draft Barkley and Ware.


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#4 thePRO

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 12:00 AM

No, Barkley has a garbage OL and Hunt already has a rushing title
Don't put too much stock into the talk about Ware, he's not going to take much if anything away from Hunt

He had a terrible Oline at Penn St.

Hernandez is also a great addition to help the Giants Oline out. Dude is a beast.

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#5 seafoam1

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 12:53 AM

Hunt has proven it. Even when Reid made mistakes by not using him for a few games he won the rushing title. Barkley is on a terrible team all around. When the giants give up 30+ points a game they won't be working that bad oline to try to run block.

#6 tanatastic

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:31 AM

Not at all.

#7 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:05 AM

Hunt has another very talented rb in Spencer Ware on the depth chart. I can guarantee that if Wares knee is healed, Reid is going to drive you insane swapping him in. Barkley is going to have it all to himself. The game plan will revolve around the Barks

#8 seafoam1

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:29 AM

Hunt has another very talented rb in Spencer Ware on the depth chart. I can guarantee that if Wares knee is healed, Reid is going to drive you insane swapping him in. Barkley is going to have it all to himself. The game plan will revolve around the Barks


Hunt has 1327 rushing yards and 455 through the air in 1 year as a pro. 53 receptions.

Ware has 1334 rushing yards and 452 through the air in 3 years as a pro. 39 receptions.

Hunt: 1 fumble
Ware: 4 fumbles in 2016

Looks like it took Ware 3 years to do what Hunt did as a rookie. Aside from the fumbles that is.

Barkley hasn't played in the NFL yet. Hunt has a rushing title as a rookie.

#9 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 04:40 AM

Hunt has 1327 rushing yards and 455 through the air in 1 year as a pro. 53 receptions.

Ware has 1334 rushing yards and 452 through the air in 3 years as a pro. 39 receptions.

Hunt: 1 fumble
Ware: 4 fumbles in 2016

Looks like it took Ware 3 years to do what Hunt did as a rookie. Aside from the fumbles that is.

Barkley hasn't played in the NFL yet. Hunt has a rushing title as a rookie.


Poor comparison

Ware has 16 more career carries.

#10 Canadianfan

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 06:18 AM

Hunt has another very talented rb in Spencer Ware on the depth chart. I can guarantee that if Wares knee is healed, Reid is going to drive you insane swapping him in. Barkley is going to have it all to himself. The game plan will revolve around the Barks


Lol....why would he swap in ware other than giving hunt some relief? Silly talk. Hunt has a beast mode style of running, and can catch out of the backfield. Rushing title as a rookie....faded a bit during the stretch, but how many rookies carry the ball from day one and finish strong? What happened to hunt was expected......he,ll be better prepared this year.

And as far as Barkley having the rock to himself; why would the giants do that? They’re not a super bowl contender, why kill him? Stewart will handle goal line work and relieve him just as often as ware would relieve hunt.

#11 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 08:20 AM

Lol....why would he swap in ware other than giving hunt some relief? Silly talk. Hunt has a beast mode style of running, and can catch out of the backfield. Rushing title as a rookie....faded a bit during the stretch, but how many rookies carry the ball from day one and finish strong? What happened to hunt was expected......he,ll be better prepared this year.

And as far as Barkley having the rock to himself; why would the giants do that? Theyre not a super bowl contender, why kill him? Stewart will handle goal line work and relieve him just as often as ware would relieve hunt.


I think Ware is a talented rb. Besides that, Andy Reid has a history of confounding personnel swaps mid game. I'm just basing this off of Reids past history. Hell, it happened last year then the Chiefs didn't have anyone close to Hunts ability on the roster. Now Ware is back

#12 seafoam1

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:35 AM

Poor comparison

Ware has 16 more career carries.

Ware has played in 11 more games than Hunt. Why doesm't he have more receptions or carries if he is so talented? How many times was Ware the rushing leader in the NFL? In his best year, 2016, he had under 1000 yards rushing. He is a blah RB. What has he done that indicates to you that he is some impact player?

#13 Ray_T

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:52 AM

He had a terrible Oline at Penn St.

Hernandez is also a great addition to help the Giants Oline out. Dude is a beast.

:thumbsup: This.

 

but the real advantage hunt has is that he plays on a team that could contend for the playoffs, and the team has a QB that is almost a rookie.  so I think they will lean heavier on the run game than the Giants will.  As a result he will get a higher percentage of touches out of a larger pool of offensive plays and more TD opportunities.

 

I do think Hunt will put up better fantasy numbers this year, but the margin wont be huge.

 

I think in future years Barkley will be the player to own.   so if you can acquire in your keeper/dynasty league, dont pass on the opportunity if the asking price is reasonable.

 

in a redraft, I do think I'd probaby take Hunt even though I like Barkley's talent better.


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#14 polecatt

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:55 AM

He had a terrible Oline at Penn St.

Hernandez is also a great addition to help the Giants Oline out. Dude is a beast.

That's in college. The NFL is a different game.



#15 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 10:56 AM

Ware has played in 11 more games than Hunt. Why doesm't he have more receptions or carries if he is so talented? How many times was Ware the rushing leader in the NFL? In his best year, 2016, he had under 1000 yards rushing. He is a blah RB. What has he done that indicates to you that he is some impact player?


2015 he average 5.6 ypc.. He didn't have the same running room the following year but was still productive overall. He was penciled in to be the starter before he got hurt. He is an excellent receiver and he is a big back. I didn't say usurp Hunt. The fact that you don't realize Reids maddening history with player usage is odd. You may want to read more into Reid

#16 seafoam1

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:02 PM

2015 he average 5.6 ypc.. He didn't have the same running room the following year but was still productive overall. He was penciled in to be the starter before he got hurt. He is an excellent receiver and he is a big back. I didn't say usurp Hunt. The fact that you don't realize Reids maddening history with player usage is odd. You may want to read more into Reid


2015? 72 rushes in 11 games.
2016 is more recent and he got over 200 carries. Averaged 4.3 yards per carry.
Did Reid not play McCoy very much in philly?

Anyway, I guess we will find out not too long from now. I could see Hunt getting a few less carries but catch more passes.

#17 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:39 PM

2015? 72 rushes in 11 games.
2016 is more recent and he got over 200 carries. Averaged 4.3 yards per carry.
Did Reid not play McCoy very much in philly?

Anyway, I guess we will find out not too long from now. I could see Hunt getting a few less carries but catch more passes.


Hunt will be the starter. He will have good numbers. He will not however, get the same undisputed every meaningful touch treatment that Barkley will get

#18 listen2me 23

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

Hunt will be the starter. He will have good numbers. He will not however, get the same undisputed every meaningful touch treatment that Barkley will get


Although I think Barkley is getting a little overrated, I agree.

But talking about real football, I think it would be silly for the Giants to run Barkley into the ground right off the bat. I know thry probably think they can win this year. But how silly would it be to put 300 carries and 50 catches on a rookie RB and go 6-10? Would be a total waste of tread on the tires.

#19 seafoam1

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:14 PM

I've seen Hunt perform at a very high level in the pros. I haven't seen Barkley do anything in the pros. There have been a lot of highly touted RBs that didn't do much once they got into the NFL.

#20 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 02:34 PM

I've seen Hunt perform at a very high level in the pros. I haven't seen Barkley do anything in the pros. There have been a lot of highly touted RBs that didn't do much once they got into the NFL.


Same things could have been said for Hunt, Fournette, and Kamara last year. Zeke the year before

#21 jrokh

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:36 PM

Same things could have been said for Hunt, Fournette, and Kamara last year. Zeke the year before

and Gurley the year before that. The only back taken in the top five of the draft that busted in recent memory was Trent Richardson. Running Back is the only position where being a rookie isn't a negative for Fantasy purposes.



#22 seafoam1

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 03:36 PM

Same things could have been said for Hunt, Fournette, and Kamara last year. Zeke the year before

You are right. But I don't think Kamara and Hunt were highly touted first rounders.. Just like David Johnson wasn't. On the other side, Reggie Bush drafted 2nd overall just like Barkley. Ron Dayne 11th overall. Trent Richardson 3rd overall. Ronnie Brown 2nd overall. Cedric Benson 4th. Cadillac Williams 5th. You just never know until they do it in the pros. LeVeon Bell was drafted 48th overall and he's a HOFer. The list is a lot longer for backs that become mediocre. 
 
And what is so great about Fournette? Under 4 yards per carry and only adding 36 receptions. He had nearly 270 rushes in 13 games, so I guess that is a positive for fantasy. In the playoffs he only averaged 3.5 yards per carry.

#23 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 07:19 PM

You are right. But I don't think Kamara and Hunt were highly touted first rounders.. Just like David Johnson wasn't. On the other side, Reggie Bush drafted 2nd overall just like Barkley. Ron Dayne 11th overall. Trent Richardson 3rd overall. Ronnie Brown 2nd overall. Cedric Benson 4th. Cadillac Williams 5th. You just never know until they do it in the pros. LeVeon Bell was drafted 48th overall and he's a HOFer. The list is a lot longer for backs that become mediocre. 
 
And what is so great about Fournette? Under 4 yards per carry and only adding 36 receptions. He had nearly 270 rushes in 13 games, so I guess that is a positive for fantasy. In the playoffs he only averaged 3.5 yards per carry.


I think it was due to poor offensive scheme, and the opposing defense knows Bortles blows. Bortles will never win a team anything. The Jags screwed themselves for a few years with this deal. Still, Fournette needs to do better.

#24 Smileseers

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 08:54 PM

I've seen Hunt perform at a very high level in the pros. I haven't seen Barkley do anything in the pros. There have been a lot of highly touted RBs that didn't do much once they got into the NFL.

That mindset works well in redraft leagues, but in keeper/dynasty league we cannot delay on making an assessment on Barkley.

 

For 5 weeks between weeks 8-13 Hunt never scored more than 10.7 points in a full PPR league against some crappy defenses.  3.6 vs Buffalo at home.  

 

Add in the Reid factor along with Ware and I'd rather have Barkley over Hunt by a good measure.  

 

Barkley is much more talented in my opinion than Hunt by my eye test.


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#25 seafoam1

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 12:31 AM

That mindset works well in redraft leagues, but in keeper/dynasty league we cannot delay on making an assessment on Barkley.
 
For 5 weeks between weeks 8-13 Hunt never scored more than 10.7 points in a full PPR league against some crappy defenses.  3.6 vs Buffalo at home.  
 
Add in the Reid factor along with Ware and I'd rather have Barkley over Hunt by a good measure.  
 
Barkley is much more talented in my opinion than Hunt by my eye test.

Hunt led the league in rushing last year in the NFL. Barkley had games against Rutgers, Ohio State, and Indiana where he averaged less than 3 yards per carry. And now all of a sudden the giants are a great rushing offense with a great defense?

#26 DrG

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 11:52 AM

Hunt had almost 1800 yards as a rookie playing on a team w o line injury issues and through a spell where he clearly needed to work on pass protection issues.

#27 DankNuggs

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 12:15 PM

That mindset works well in redraft leagues, but in keeper/dynasty league we cannot delay on making an assessment on Barkley.

 

For 5 weeks between weeks 8-13 Hunt never scored more than 10.7 points in a full PPR league against some crappy defenses.  3.6 vs Buffalo at home.  

 

Add in the Reid factor along with Ware and I'd rather have Barkley over Hunt by a good measure.  

 

Barkley is much more talented in my opinion than Hunt by my eye test.

Your mindset of comparing real results of Hunt to your fantasies about Saquons potential will skew towards the unproven commodity. 

 

Its kind of like how draft picks lose value once you actually draft a person. The value of potential options is extinguished. 

 

I've been doing this a long time, and when its a tossup, take the guy on the better offense. 

 

NYG have been a dumpster fire of an organization for a while. If that continues, chances of dissapointment are high. 

 

I'd take Hunt all day over Barkley 


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#28 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 02:37 PM

Dumpster fire for a while. They won 11 games in 2016. And a Super Bowl in 2011. You remeber that, right?

#29 LoOnAtIk

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 03:09 PM

Hunt led the league in rushing last year in the NFL. Barkley had games against Rutgers, Ohio State, and Indiana where he averaged less than 3 yards per carry. And now all of a sudden the giants are a great rushing offense with a great defense?


You keep bringing up stats like led NFL in rushing last year as if he didnt have some really awful games down the stretch. Same way giants wouldnt wanna burn the tires off Barkley, if the chiefs and Reid have a brain why wouldnt he take the same approach with Hunt? Clearly he ran out of steam last year. Ill take my chances with Barkley being a transcendent talent.

Yes, Im fully aware that hunt led the league in rushing thanks.

#30 seafoam1

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 09:53 PM

You keep bringing up stats like led NFL in rushing last year as if he didnt have some really awful games down the stretch. Same way giants wouldnt wanna burn the tires off Barkley, if the chiefs and Reid have a brain why wouldnt he take the same approach with Hunt? Clearly he ran out of steam last year. Ill take my chances with Barkley being a transcendent talent.

Yes, Im fully aware that hunt led the league in rushing thanks.


He ran out of steam? In what way? And he was the only back in the league to lead in rushing. Barkley had games in college with less than 3 yards per carry average. How does that translate to the pros? At least Hunt did it on the professional level.

#31 LoOnAtIk

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 01:29 AM

He ran out of steam? In what way? And he was the only back in the league to lead in rushing. Barkley had games in college with less than 3 yards per carry average. How does that translate to the pros? At least Hunt did it on the professional level.


Are you being sarcastic this time?

Look up the word transcendent.

Remember how bad the Adrian Peterson Vikings were? I know Im not alone here. Sometimes talent supersedes situation/scenario.

I watched a lot of Hunts games last year. Hes a homerun hitter for sure but hes 1-cut and go. Also with Mahomes stepping in defenses will want to force him to throw the ball. I think last year is unfortunately Hunts ceiling. If all of the dominos fall in place for him I think he ends up with right around same numbers as last year, at very best.

#32 seafoam1

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 03:47 AM

Clearly he ran out of steam last year.

Yes, Im fully aware that hunt led the league in rushing thanks.

You say Hunt ran out of steam last year. I don't think you pay much attention to detail.

Week 14: 116 yards rushing - 3 catches for 22 yards - 1 TD

Week 15  155 yards rushing - 7 catches for 51 yards - 2 TDs

Week 16: 91 yards rushing   - 4 catches for 15 yards - 1 TD

Week 17 he was rested and only given the ball once for 35 yards and a TD

53 receptions as a rookie. 4.9 yards per carry. 

 

And every running back has bad games. Gurley had a whole bad year a couple years ago. LeVeon Bell, averaged only 4 yards per carry last year. Elliott only had 4.1 yards per carry. 9 rushes for 8 yards against Denver.

Let's look at the great saquon barkley last year:

20 rushes for 56 yards against Indiana

21 rushes for 44 yards against Ohio State

14 rushes for 35 yards against Rutgers

Dude had only 5 games last year over 100 yards rushing in a college schedule.. Hunt had 6 games over 100 rushing against professional defenses. 

Truly transcendent numbers for Barkley wouldn't you say? .



#33 seafoam1

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 04:26 AM

Are you being sarcastic this time?

Look up the word transcendent.

Remember how bad the Adrian Peterson Vikings were? I know Im not alone here. Sometimes talent supersedes situation/scenario.

I watched a lot of Hunts games last year. Hes a homerun hitter for sure but hes 1-cut and go. Also with Mahomes stepping in defenses will want to force him to throw the ball. I think last year is unfortunately Hunts ceiling. If all of the dominos fall in place for him I think he ends up with right around same numbers as last year, at very best.

So teams are going to let Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt, and Sammy Watkins run free in the secondary because they think Mahomes can't throw them the ball? Why do you think the Chiefs let Alex Smith go? Because Mahomes isn't ready yet? They don't want to win anymore? I have heard multiple people on the NFL network state that they are sure Mahomes is ready to play. 

You are claiming that last year is the best that Hunt could possibly do? That's just a weird take on things. You act like he's just a mediocre player that simply got lucky winning the rushing title. 

 

Every site I've seen has the Giants oline ranked in the mid 20's this year.  Barkley rushes 14 times for 35 yards against Rutgers, and now is running behind one of the worst olines in the NFL and is transcendent and going to rush for 1000's of yards against Philly?

 

And by the way, I would take Mahomes any day over Manning, the turn over machine. 



#34 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 11:15 AM

That's in college. The NFL is a different game.

 

Which bodes well for Barkley.  In college, Penn St was completely over matched at the line of scrimmage in about half of their games.  The other half, they were mostly equal... except for the 1 or 2 cream puffs.  The Giants OL will never be over matched like Penn State's was.



#35 seafoam1

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 11:28 AM

 

Which bodes well for Barkley.  In college, Penn St was completely over matched at the line of scrimmage in about half of their games.  The other half, they were mostly equal... except for the 1 or 2 cream puffs.  The Giants OL will never be over matched like Penn State's was.

The Giants have a terrible oline. They are one of the worst in the NFL.  And you are saying that Rutgers and Indiana overmatched Penn State?



#36 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 12:39 PM

The Giants have a terrible oline. They are one of the worst in the NFL.  And you are saying that Rutgers and Indiana overmatched Penn State?

 

Indiana's DLine ranked 32nd in the NCAA against the run, while Penn State's OLine ranked 63rd in run blocking.  So, I'm going to say yes for Indiana.  No for Rutgers.  Of their 13 opponents last year, 6 ranked in the top 32.  I would call that, "about half", wouldn't you?  Yeah, I did exaggerated the other half though.  Forgive me.

 

But in those 6 games, Barkley averaged 4.6 ypc (483 yards on 104 attempts), with 7 TD's.  Receiving, he had 23 receptions for 203 yards and another TD.  So basically, his average game was 21 targets, 115 yards, and 1.3 TD's per game... when his OLine was over matched.

 

Do you want to go back to 2016?  You know, when Penn State's OLine was ranked 120th and he played against 10 opponents who's DLine ranked in the top 67.  Now of course, no one is going to say that a top 67 DLine is great, but they were around the top half of the country (I think there's 130 schools).  In those 10 games, he averaged 20 touches, 109 yards, and 1.6 TD's per game.



#37 Ray_T

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 02:08 PM

The Giants have a terrible oline. They are one of the worst in the NFL.  And you are saying that Rutgers and Indiana overmatched Penn State?

HAD.

 

this years line will be quite a bit better than the line you have seen over the last 2-3 years.

 

while I wouldnt say they will be overpowering, the addition of solder from the pats (pro bowl player)  and Hernandez at guard (2nd pick in round 2... first round talent) makes me think this line will be a whole lot better than they have been.

 

I'm the first to admit, it takes time for the line to learn to work together so it wont happen overnight, but I think the second half of the season this line will be at least average.   First half of the season will be below average, but still better than last year.


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#38 listen2me 23

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 07:32 PM

Im not unserstanding this hunt had bad games knock. Barkely wont have bad games this year is that the prediction?

It is a tough call for sure but that argument is so ridiculous.

#39 seafoam1

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 10:29 PM

HAD.

 

this years line will be quite a bit better than the line you have seen over the last 2-3 years.

 

while I wouldnt say they will be overpowering, the addition of solder from the pats (pro bowl player)  and Hernandez at guard (2nd pick in round 2... first round talent) makes me think this line will be a whole lot better than they have been.

 

I'm the first to admit, it takes time for the line to learn to work together so it wont happen overnight, but I think the second half of the season this line will be at least average.   First half of the season will be below average, but still better than last year.

Every ranking I see has the giants with a mid 20s rank for oline. Even with the changes they made. Right side of the line is terrible. I understand they got a good player from the Pats, but seriously how much better than being worst are they going to be? Manning is not the answer at QB, and they blew it not drafting a QB this year (unless they truly hated the QB talent that is). Beckham is a nutcase, and the only guy they have that may be stable is at TE. I hear others talk like the giants currently are more like the 11 win team of a couple years ago than they are the team we all saw last year. I don't get it. 

 

I understand Barkley is highly rated and I would take him on my team if the price weren't so high. But man, a top 6 or 7 pick is where he is going and people are putting down Hunt for a guy who is going to a terrible team and who never ran a play in the NFL. Crazy. 



#40 TBayXXXVII

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 08:25 AM

I'll take Barkley top 3.  He doesn't need a good OLine to put up great numbers.  My top 7...

  1. David Johnson
  2. Ezekiel Elliott
  3. Saquon Barkley
  4. Le'Veon Bell
  5. Todd Gurley
  6. Kareem Hunt
  7. Alvin Kamara