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murf74

alejandro villanueva

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A real American Hero, fought a real battle for the flag takes the high road as Steelers puss out.

 

Way to go buddy.

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Its about respect and he has respect for himself and his country and his fellow soldiers

 

Yes, when the announcer says please stand and honor...soldiers....etc. It doesn't say please stand and agree with all government policies or how laws are / are not enforced.

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At the end of the day I respect the right of players who want to kneel for the anthem. I may not agree with it, but it's part of what makes America great (try doing that in North Korea and see what happens...) At the same time the owners have the right to not hire a player who kneels for the anthem. The NFL is an entertainment business and let's face facts, PR is a big part of any entertainment entity. If George Clooney said something totally un-pc and no director ever hired him again it's the same thing. Let's all let this go and let the American way take its course. If you want to use your right and kneel that's fine, but dont complain if owners don't hire you.

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At the end of the day I respect the right of players who want to kneel for the anthem. I may not agree with it, but it's part of what makes America great (try doing that in North Korea and see what happens...) At the same time the owners have the right to not hire a player who kneels for the anthem. The NFL is an entertainment business and let's face facts, PR is a big part of any entertainment entity. If George Clooney said something totally un-pc and no director ever hired him again it's the same thing. Let's all let this go and let the American way take its course. If you want to use your right and kneel that's fine, but dont complain if owners don't hire you.

 

I agree with pretty much everything in this post. :thumbsup:

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Where can I get his jersey?

http://m.nflshop.com/league/NFL/team/Pittsburgh_Steelers/category/14012/browse/featuredproduct/2215614/source/ak1944nfl-pla?sku=7242633&003=14180831&CS_010=2215614

 

Army Ranger

 

So disappointed in The franchise. This guy is what's good about America. Protesting does not make you a better person just for doing it

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Sorry but I like the freedom we still have at this time.

 

If they want to sit stand leave eat lunch during the Anthem it's ok with me.

 

It as nothing to do with me or I with their decision making off the field.

 

They are football players, I just want the ones that I own on my one ff team to score more points the the other persons team.

 

If it indeed took place at my work place then I would more interested in the situation, watching a bunch of people who play sports do something they believe is the right thing, doesn't piss me off nor make me want to join them.

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Poor Steelers, no way any of them would have kneeled with Villanueva in the team, so they were bullied into hiding because they didn't have the guts to stand. Tomlin was obviously pissed about it. Then they lose.

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Good for him. I LOVE it. He was the only one standing there while the rest of the morons "protested". What the !@#$ are they protesting against anyway? Do they even know? Probably not.

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Made his way onto page 1 of NFL Shop's best selling jerseys.

Excellent news. Hope that jersey goes to #1.

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At the end of the day I respect the right of players who want to kneel for the anthem. I may not agree with it, but it's part of what makes America great (try doing that in North Korea and see what happens...) At the same time the owners have the right to not hire a player who kneels for the anthem. The NFL is an entertainment business and let's face facts, PR is a big part of any entertainment entity. If George Clooney said something totally un-pc and no director ever hired him again it's the same thing. Let's all let this go and let the American way take its course. If you want to use your right and kneel that's fine, but dont complain if owners don't hire you.

I was going to try to reply to some of these posts, but I couldn't have expressed it any better than this.

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This bum disrespected his teammates. Cut this scrub.

How do you know that his teammates didn't disrespect him?

 

He, after all, shed blood for them. What have they done for him, other than refusing to honor the Flag for which he fought?

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How do you know that his teammates didn't disrespect him?

 

He, after all, shed blood for them. What have they done for him, other than refusing to honor the Flag for which he fought?

Well they another thing they refused to do was to protect Roethlisberger's blindside which opened up a job for him.

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3 tours in Afghanistan. Army Ranger. May God bless him and America.

 

Hooah!

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Murf, you're seeing this a bit off kilter. Remember, this is the franchise of the former Ambassador to Ireland. If these guys planned this, I'm sure Steelers management knew it was coming. Last year Harrison threatened to fight anybody who was sitting, and he meant it. But things have changed now, and our fearless leader is not only condoning restriction of freedom of speech but encouraging punishment of it. My grandfather fought @ Pearl Harbor, I know the price of freedom. If it was me in the locker room, I would have walked down the hallway with Big Al and stood with him and the rest of the Americans honoring our heritage while our song played. But at the same time, I understand the rights of those to protest and express their views. Beyond that, even as a POWG (plain old white guy), I understand the reason that African-Americans are protesting and support them in their right to do so. While I don't agree with Kaepernick choosing to protest police issues in the black community during the presentation of the Stars and Stripes, I understand that it's the biggest exposure point for the topic by doing so. Like everything else, there is no right or wrong on this, it's all personal opinion. If an owner of a team was to say "when you are on the field, even before the game starts, you are working and as such its against company policy to express political or religious beliefs" and asked all his players to stand, I would understand. We are in uncharted territory on this and have little to nothing in national leadership which complicates the process.

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Ratings down 8 percent on sunday night from last week.

 

Do not let the cameras and Talking Heads fool you. This did nothing but help Trump.

 

A vast majority of Americans feel the same way Trump does about the anthem and it's showing.

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You know what. It is a free country. They're free to disrespect the flag, and we're free to judge them for it. Also, the owners are free to not sign Kaep for it.

 

We're free to not watch it so ratings plummet. The sponsors are free to pull their funds. So on and so on. Good luck with your next free agency period Steelers, and every other tool that is making his "freedom of speech" count. Good LUCK!!! The money tree just might not have as much fruit the next go around.

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Murf, you're seeing this a bit off kilter. Remember, this is the franchise of the former Ambassador to Ireland. If these guys planned this, I'm sure Steelers management knew it was coming. Last year Harrison threatened to fight anybody who was sitting, and he meant it. But things have changed now, and our fearless leader is not only condoning restriction of freedom of speech but encouraging punishment of it. My grandfather fought @ Pearl Harbor, I know the price of freedom. If it was me in the locker room, I would have walked down the hallway with Big Al and stood with him and the rest of the Americans honoring our heritage while our song played. But at the same time, I understand the rights of those to protest and express their views. Beyond that, even as a POWG (plain old white guy), I understand the reason that African-Americans are protesting and support them in their right to do so. While I don't agree with Kaepernick choosing to protest police issues in the black community during the presentation of the Stars and Stripes, I understand that it's the biggest exposure point for the topic by doing so. Like everything else, there is no right or wrong on this, it's all personal opinion. If an owner of a team was to say "when you are on the field, even before the game starts, you are working and as such its against company policy to express political or religious beliefs" and asked all his players to stand, I would understand. We are in uncharted territory on this and have little to nothing in national leadership which complicates the process.

 

Well said, sir. Thank you.

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Saw these on MMQB:

 

 

“It’s certainly more American to protest than to advocate for the suppression of protests.”

—Green Bay running back Ty Montgomery

 

“I’m pissed off. I supported Donald Trump. [The comments] are appalling to me … I never signed up for that.”

—Rex Ryan, on ESPN on Sunday. The former Bills coach once introduced Trump at a western New York campaign rally

 

 

I really like the one from Montgomery.

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Ratings down 8 percent on sunday night from last week.

 

Do not let the cameras and Talking Heads fool you. This did nothing but help Trump.

 

A vast majority of Americans feel the same way Trump does about the anthem and it's showing.

 

What amuses me is that when NFL players are beating women left and right, the ratings stay the same or even rise, but when some of them disrespect the flag, we draw the line and the ratings drop. I'm a proud American and 'm very grateful for people like Villanueva, but maybe the priorities are a little out of whack there? ( "Some guy just punched your sister in the face and then spit on your American flag!" "He did what to my flag?!")

 

The best question that came out of today's White House Briefing.... "Sarah, Does the president think there are "very fine people" who kneel during the anthems or are they all SOBs?" That's the problem with our Pumpkin-in-Chief, he can (somehow) find the good in people who are protesting alongside white supremacists/Nazi's/KKK members but has no such soft spot in his heart for people peacefully exercising their first amendment rights. Maybe if those players had Tiki torches in hand and swastikas on their sleeves, he'd cut them a little slack? Maybe?

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Im pissed off. I supported Donald Trump. [The comments] are appalling to me I never signed up for that.

 

Rex Ryan, on ESPN on Sunday. The former Bills coach once introduced Trump at a western New York campaign rally.

 

^ if you work at espn you better not say anything kind about Trump or you lose your job. If you call him a white supremacist, you're good though.

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Saw these on MMQB:

 

 

I really like the one from Montgomery.

 

Those are good. TyMont is a well spoken guy.

 

I got invited out to Quantico a few years ago to play with the Marines at Officer Candidate School (I was not a candidate, too old by about a year at that point, I think). By 'play with', I mean that we got to ride with the Marine One guys (not in Marine One itself, but in one of the Phrogs the squadron has), watch some candidates in action, talk to a few of the brass running the school, go on a field training maneuver (really candy stuff there, but there were a few flash bangs and some decision-making tests, fun stuff).

 

The Marines I met there, mostly officers but a couple of sergeants as well, were collectively of the opinion that they fight so that people are free to protest in these ways. The topic that came up at dinner was flag burning specifically, but I think it's relevant here. Of course for all of these men and women, they said that watching someone burn a flag would 'trouble' them. And I think it should, whether you're in the military or not. But the point that several of them made to me was that they would in no way prevent someone from making that protest. They understood that our nation isn't perfect, and they appreciate protest. None of them would choose to protest in that way. But it was very telling when someone asked and they all replied that there was no way they would ever stop or punish someone for burning a flag. These were active duty Marines here.

 

Collectively, I have never met a group of people that I judged to be more concerned with doing right, and with honor and ethics, than those people I met. And I remember that conversation to this day.

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The NFL players are in a bubble. Just like celebrities. They all think Americans believe as their tiny bubble does. Throw media in there as well.

 

Big mistake

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What amuses me is that when NFL players are beating women left and right, the ratings stay the same or even rise, but when some of them disrespect the flag, we draw the line and the ratings drop. I'm a proud American and 'm very grateful for people like Villanueva, but maybe the priorities are a little out of whack there? ( "Some guy just punched your sister in the face and then spit on your American flag!" "He did what to my flag?!")

 

The best question that came out of today's White House Briefing.... "Sarah, Does the president think there are "very fine people" who kneel during the anthems or are they all SOBs?" That's the problem with our Pumpkin-in-Chief, he can (somehow) find the good in people who are protesting alongside white supremacists/Nazi's/KKK members but has no such soft spot in his heart for people peacefully exercising their first amendment rights. Maybe if those players had Tiki torches in hand and swastikas on their sleeves, he'd cut them a little slack? Maybe?

 

I am not saying I agree with this, but I think its because an attack on a woman while downright awful, is a single victim issue, and someone that society doesn't really have a connection to. Kind of like when you hear a celebrity died, you go bummer and move on. Spitting on the American Flag is an attack on all of us, attack on our parents, our grandparents and our freedom, that used to be something that EVERYBODY could get behind

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The NFL players are in a bubble. Just like celebrities. They all think Americans believe as their tiny bubble does. Throw media in there as well.

 

Big mistake

 

Murf I think you would like Dinesh D'souza's latest book

 

here is a brief discussion from it

 

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The rules are found on pages A62-63 of the leagues game operations manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

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Murf, you're seeing this a bit off kilter. Remember, this is the franchise of the former Ambassador to Ireland. If these guys planned this, I'm sure Steelers management knew it was coming. Last year Harrison threatened to fight anybody who was sitting, and he meant it. But things have changed now, and our fearless leader is not only condoning restriction of freedom of speech but encouraging punishment of it.

Let me stop you right here. Not one thing Trump said supported a restriction of freedom of speech. Not one thing. Go ahead and try to argue that with me, but I'll warn you in advance: you're going to lose.

 

My grandfather fought @ Pearl Harbor, I know the price of freedom.

No, your grandfather does. You're simply the beneficiary. And you also do not appear to be aware that freedoms - like of speech - are not unconditional. Were it so, it would be illegal for employers to sign contracts with employees that restrict their behaviours in both word and deed.

 

If it was me in the locker room, I would have walked down the hallway with Big Al and stood with him and the rest of the Americans honoring our heritage while our song played. But at the same time, I understand the rights of those to protest and express their views.

Excellent. That doesn't mean that you cannot say a single thing in criticism of the nature of their protest.

 

Beyond that, even as a POWG (plain old white guy), I understand the reason that African-Americans are protesting and support them in their right to do so. While I don't agree with Kaepernick choosing to protest police issues in the black community during the presentation of the Stars and Stripes, I understand that it's the biggest exposure point for the topic by doing so.

Oh, he could have done better. Like stopping mid-play and unraveling a BLM banner. That certainly would have put his message out in quite a noteworthy way, and wouldn't have pissed on our flag in the process.

 

Like everything else, there is no right or wrong on this, it's all personal opinion.

Oh, there is quite certainly a right and a wrong here. All opinions are not equal. All that is equal is the right to express them. Once expressed, they rise or fall based upon merit.

 

If an owner of a team was to say "when you are on the field, even before the game starts, you are working and as such its against company policy to express political or religious beliefs" and asked all his players to stand, I would understand. We are in uncharted territory on this and have little to nothing in national leadership which complicates the process.

That is already part of NFL player's contract. They have a personal conduct component to their contracts, and actions they take are left to the discretion of their bosses.

 

The problem is that the bosses - NFL team owners - are placed in a nearly unwinnable situation, and it's just one of the reasons why it was so unreasonable and inflammatory for players to engage in this. If they side with the players, they piss off the fans. If they side with the fans, they piss off the players.

 

No win.

 

No one should fight a battle they cannot win.

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The rules are found on pages A62-63 of the leagues game operations manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

There you go, jgcrawfish. Aren't you glad you learned something?

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Ratings down 8 percent on sunday night from last week.

Do not let the cameras and Talking Heads fool you. This did nothing but help Trump.

A vast majority of Americans feel the same way Trump does about the anthem and it's showing.

 

This.

 

 

You know what. It is a free country. They're free to disrespect the flag, and we're free to judge them for it. Also, the owners are free to not sign Kaep for it.

 

We're free to not watch it so ratings plummet. The sponsors are free to pull their funds. So on and so on. Good luck with your next free agency period Steelers, and every other tool that is making his "freedom of speech" count. Good LUCK!!! The money tree just might not have as much fruit the next go around.

 

 

And this.

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What amuses me is that when NFL players are beating women left and right, the ratings stay the same or even rise

Because they were individual acts not wrought of an ideology, and - more importantly - seemed to be taken seriously by the NFL, and included punishment...

 

...but when some of them disrespect the flag, we draw the line and the ratings drop.

...because this is ideologically based, rubs the fans the wrong way for really good reason, and the NFL is not squashing it, but encouraging it.

 

There is no mystery here.

 

I'm a proud American and 'm very grateful for people like Villanueva, but maybe the priorities are a little out of whack there? ( "Some guy just punched your sister in the face and then spit on your American flag!" "He did what to my flag?!")

Not sure why you think that characterization is accurate here. No NFL player punched my sister. A couple assaulted loved ones - one (Zeke) in questionable circumstances in which the accuser may have credibility problems. The NFL has been dealing with each case, and - it appears - poorly, in the case of Elliott.

 

The best question that came out of today's White House Briefing.... "Sarah, Does the president think there are "very fine people" who kneel during the anthems or are they all SOBs?"

I'm sure he thinks that there are 'very fine people' involved. I know of one, without a doubt: Ty Montgomery. He's a stand up guy. That doesn't mean that he's not mistaken; that he doesn't have a bad misconception of the folly of protesting the symbol which enables his protest (an oddism which no one has adequately logically explained).

 

I'm also quite sure that there are people who marched in antiFA who are very fine people, simply misguided. I'm sure there were people who marched in neoNazi rallies who are equally misguided. I'm not playing political football with a general statement which has been abused to characterize Trump in any manner that the politically biased wishes to characterize him.

 

That's the problem with our Pumpkin-in-Chief, he can (somehow) find the good in people who are protesting alongside white supremacists/Nazi's/KKK members but has no such soft spot in his heart for people peacefully exercising their first amendment rights.

Huh? How do you know that? Facts not in evidence, David.

 

Maybe if those players had Tiki torches in hand and swastikas on their sleeves, he'd cut them a little slack? Maybe?

 

We know. You don't like Trump. Trump is 0% at fault for the NFL player circumstances. The NFL has lost control of its players, and there is no excuse for it.

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The rules are found on pages A62-63 of the leagues game operations manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

 

OMG! You mean it is spelled out for them right in their very handbook. So, it IS within the rules. I don't know why an owner would be afraid to piss off a player. Do you think the Rooneys were pissed off that Bell held out? Do you think the owner of the Rams was pissed off when Donald held out? Grow up people!!! Follow your own rules. If they're stupid, change them next year.

 

This furthers the argument that people that are running the league are complete morons, well moron. Of course, Iam talking about the face and voice for the NFL, the great protector of the shield, Goodell. FAIL!!!!! Again!!

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