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Voltaire

I hope you can help me help a Chinese friend out. It's fun and you may learn something.

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This guy I know is an English-language university professor at the local college here in Panzhihua. He treated me to dinner the other day. He's doing some research on various English language translations of a famous classic book of Chinese history. What he needs is native English speakers to read the same passage three times from three different translators and then fill out the questionnaire he made.

 

Well, seeing as there's almost no native English speakers in our small town in deep inland China, he came to me. I told him my only friends are half inebriated idiots on a low rent fantasy football message board that I'd do what I could to help him out. Also, seeing as this place is all guys, if you could get a spouse to help out for 15 mins or so, even better as they may have fun with this

 

The story itself occurs ~240 AD during the Three Kingdoms era of China. The backstory here is that Shu (the smallest kingdom) has sent Zhuge Liang (aka Kongming) in the hopes of forming an alliance with Wu (the #2s) against Wei (the largest/strongest kingdom). Unfortunately for Zhuge, Team Wu would as soon kill him as help him.

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As the target of our survey, we need you to provide some of your personal information which includes your age, gender, educational background (degree and major), and your job. However, in order to protect your privacy, this survey is completely anonymous, and you need not provide your name. We appreciate your support to our research, thank you very much!

Your age _________ Gender __________
Educational background (degree and major) _____________________________
Present job _________
Part I The following are some questions about your knowledge of Chinese traditional culture and one of the four great classical novels of Chinese literature titled Three Kingdoms. Please fill your choice in the brackets.
1. How much do you know about Chinese traditional culture? ( )
A. None
B. Not very much
C. Some
D. Very familiar with
2. How much do you know about Chinese classical literature? ( )
A. None
B. Not very much
C. Some
D. Very familiar with
3. Which of the following Chinese classical novel(s) have you read? ( )
A. Dream of the Red Mansions or the Story of the Stone
B. Three Kingdoms or Romance of the Three Kingdoms
C. Monkey or Journey to the West
D. Water Margin or Outlaws of the Marsh
4. What is your main resource for accessing Chinese classical literature? ( )
A. From curriculum
B. From others’ recommendation
C. From personal reading
D. Other (please specify)
5. What form of “Three Kingdoms” have you read? ( )
A. Paper publication
B. E-books
C. Unofficially shared resources (pirated version)
D. Other (please specify)
6. How much do you know about the translators of “Three Kingdoms”? ( )
A. None
B. Not very much
C. Some
D. Very familiar with
7. Why did you read “Three Kingdoms”? ( )
A. Interest in Chinese culture
B. Other people’s recommendation
C. Media coverage
D. Other (please specify)
8. If you have read Three Kingdoms, how much of the translations have you read?
A.San Kuo or Romance of the Three Kingdoms translated by C. H. Brewitt-Taylor ( )
1) From cover to cover
2) Only the chapters that interested me
3) Just a few chapters
B. Three Kingdoms translated by Moss Roberts ( )
1) From cover to cover
2) Only chapters that interested me
3) Just a few chapters
9. What do you think is (are) the most difficult for you to comprehend while reading? ( )
A. Names of characters / places / weapons
B. Idioms
C. Culture-specific items
D. Allusions
10. What interested / attracted you most in the novel? ( )
A. Chinese traditional culture
B. The plot
C. Warring scenes
D. Military strategies
11. After reading, would you recommend the novel to others? If yes, to whom would you recommend? ( )
A. family members
B. relatives
C. friends
D. None
12. Can you comprehend the culture-specific items in the novel? ( )
A. Easily
B. With some difficulty
C. Very difficult
D. Not at all
13. Can you comprehend the culture-specific items in the novel better with notes? ( )
A. Yes
B. No
14. Can you comprehend the Chinese idioms in the novel? ( )
A. Easily
B. With some difficulty
C. Very difficult
D. Not at all
15. Can you comprehend the allusions in the novel? ( )
A. Easily
B. With some difficulty
C. Very difficult
D. Not at all
16. Can you comprehend the allusions in the novel better with notes? ( )
A. Yes
B. No
17. Overall, are you able to read the two full-text versions of the translations by C. H Brewitt-Taylor and Moss Roberts? ( )
A. Perfectly
B. Relatively well
C. With some difficulty
D. Not very well
-------------------------
Part II Please go to the bottom of the page and read the three versions of one excerpt translated by three different translators. After you have finished reading, please return here and answer the following questions and fill your choice in the brackets.
1. How do you feel about the comprehensibility of the English language versions of the translations? ( )
A. Very good
B. Relatively good
C. Average
D. Poor
2. Are you able to follow and comprehend the implications of traditional Chinese culture from the versions? ( )
A. Total comprehensibility
B. Very good comprehensibility
C. Not able to comprehend much
D. Not at all
3. Which of the versions do you think is more readable? ( )
A. Version A
B. Version B
C. Version C
4. In which version do you think the use of the English Language is more natural? ( )
A. Version A
B. Version B
C. Version C
5. Which version do you think is more comprehensible? ( )
A. Version A
B. Version B
C. Version C
6. Do you feel that reading “Three Kingdoms” has helped you understand Chinese culture better? ( )
A. Very helpful
B. Helpful
C. Not very helpful
D. Not at all
Version A
The next day Zhou Yu assembled his officers and summoned Zhuge Liang to a council. The latter went there cheerfully, and after they had taken seats Zhou Yu asked, “What arms are most important in naval fighting? We shall be engaging the forces of Cao Cao soon.”
“Oh the river, arrows are best,” said Zhuge Liang.
“I agree with you. But we are rather short of arrows. Would you undertake to supply a hundred thousand for our next fight? Since this is for the common good, I am sure you won’t refuse!”
“I shall certainly do my best to carry out your orders,” said Zhuge Liang. “May I ask when you want the arrows?”
“Could you have them ready in ten days?”
“The enemy may be here any time. Ten days would be too late.”
“In that case how long do you think you will need?”
“In three days I can give you a hundred thousand arrows.”
“We don’t appreciate jokes in the army!” said Zhou Yu.
“How dare I joke with you, commander?” protested Zhuge Liang. “Give me a written order. If I haven’t done the job in three days, I am willing to accept any punishment.”
In high good humor Zhou Yu ordered his adjutant to draw up an order forthwith. Then he drank to Zhuge Liang’s success and said, “When this task is completed, you will be rewarded.”
“It is too late to start today. I will start tomorrow,” said Zhuge Liang. “Three days from tomorrow you can send five hundred men to the river bank to fetch the arrows.” After drinking a few more cups he took his leave.
“Do you think he is up to some trick?” asked Lu Su.
“I think he has signed his own death warrant,” said Zhou Yu. “I didn’t push him into this. He asked for that formal order before the whole council. Even if he sprouts wings he can hardly escape this time. I shall just tell the workmen to hold things up and not supply him with the material he needs, so that of course he can’t produce the arrows. Then, when I condemn him, no one can protest. Go and see what he’s doing now and keep me informed.”
So off went Lu Su to see Zhuge Liang, who said, “I asked you not to let Zhou Yu know or he would kill me. But you couldn’t hold your tongue, and now I’m in trouble. How am I to make a hundred thousand arrows in three days? You must come to my rescue.”
“You brought this on yourself,” replied Lu Su. “How can I help you?”
“I want the loan of twenty boats, each manned by thirty men. All the boats should have black cloth curtains and a thousand bundles of straw lashed to both sides. I shall make good use of them. On the third day I promise to deliver the arrows. But on no account tell Zhou Yu, or my plan will fall through.”
Although Lu Su was puzzled, when he went back to Zhou Yu he did not mention the boats. He said only that Zhuge Liang had not asked for bamboo, feathers, glue or varnish, but had some other way of producing arrows.
Zhou Yu was puzzled too but simply said, “Well, we’ll see what he has to say in three days’ time.”
Lu Su quietly prepared twenty fast ships each manned by more than thirty men, as well as the curtains and straw. The first and second days, Zhuge Liang made no move. Before dawn on the third day at about the fourth watch, he secretly invited Lu Su to his boat. When asked the reason he said, “I want you to come with me to fetch those arrows.”
“Where from?”
“Don’t ask that. You will see.”
Then Zhuge Liang had the twenty ships fastened together with a long rope and made them row towards the north bank. The night was foggy and mist lay so thick on the river that men face to face could hardly see each other.
Zhuge Liang urged the ships forward till by the fifth watch they were close to Cao Cao’s camp, then they were ordered to form a line with their prows to the west, while the crews beat drums and raised a mighty clamor.
Lu Su was alarmed and asked, “What if the enemy attacks?”
Zhuge Liang said with a laugh, “I doubt if Cao Cao will come out in this heavy fog. Let us pass the time pleasantly drinking and go back when the fog lifts.”
When Cao Cao’s troops heard the clamor and beating of drums, Mao Jie and Yu Jin hurried to report to their chief. His orders were, “If their fleet has arrived in a heavy fog like this, they must be up to some trick. Don’t do anything rash. Get the bowmen in your fleet to shoot at them.” He also sent orders to Zhang Liao and Xu Huang to take three thousand archers from their army to the bank at once to help the marines. By the time this order was delivered, the admirals had already ordered bowmen to let fly their arrows to prevent the men of Wu from attacking their camp. Soon a host of army archers also arrived, and all shot together at the river. Arrows fell like rain.
Then Zhuge Liang made his crews turn so that their prows pointed east and go closer to the camp so that more arrows might hit them, while they went on sounding drums and raising a din. When the sun rose and the mist began to scatter, he gave orders for a speedy return. By then the straw on all the boats was bristling with arrows, and Zhuge Liang ordered the crews to shout, “Thank you, Cao Cao, for your arrows!” By the time this was reported to Cao Cao, the swift light boats were more than twenty li downstream, and it was impossible to overtake them. Cao Cao was sorry, but there was no help for it. (1070 words)
Version B
The next day Zhou Yu gathered his generals together and summoned Kongming, who came eagerly. At the assembly Zhou Yu asked him, “When we engaged Cao Cao in battle on the river routes, what should be the weapon of choice?” “On the Great River, bow and arrow,” Kongming replied. “My view precisely, sir,” Zhou Yu said, “But we happen to be short of arrows. Dare I trouble you, sir, to undertake the production of one hundred thousand arrows to use against the enemy? Please favor us with your cooperation in this official matter.” “Whatever task the chief commander assigns, I shall strive to complete,” replied Kongming. “But may I ask by what time you will require them?” “Can you finish in ten days?” asked Zhou Yu. “Cao’s army is due at any moment,” said Kongming. “If we must wait ten days, it will spoil everything.” “How many days do you estimate you need, sir?” said Zhou Yu. “With all respect, I will deliver the arrows in three days,” Kongming answered. “There is no room for levity in the army,” Zhou Yu snapped. “Dare I trifle with the chief commander?” countered Kongming. “I beg to submit my pledge under martial law: if I fail to finish in three days’ time, I will gladly suffer the maximum punishment.”
Elated, Zhou Yu had his administrative officer publicly accept the document. He then offered Kongming wine, saying. “You will be well rewarded when your mission is accomplished.” It’s too late to begin today, said Kongming. “Production begins tomorrow. On the third day send five hundred men to the river for the arrows.” After a few more cups, he left. Lu Su said to Zhou Yu, “This man has to be deceiving us.” “He is delivering himself into our hands!” replied Zhou Yu. “We did not force him. Now that he has publicly undertaken this task in writing, he couldn’t escape if he sprouted wings. Just have the artisans delay delivery of whatever he needs. He will miss the appointed time; and when we fix his punishment, what defense will he be able to make? Now go to him again and bring me back news.”
Lu Su went to see Kongming. “Didn’t I tell you not to say anything?” Kongming began. “He is determined to kill me, I never dreamed you would expose me. And now today he actually pulled this trick on me! How am I supposed to produce one hundred thousand arrows in three days? You have to save me!” “You brought this on yourself,” said Lu Su. “How can I save you?” “You must lend me twenty vessels,” Kongming went on, “with a crew of thirty on each. Lined up on either side of each vessel I want a thousand bundles of straw wrapped in black cloth. I have good use for them. I’m sure we can have the arrows on the third day. But if you tell Zhou Yu this time, my plan will fail.” Lu Su agreed, though he had no idea what Kongming was up to, and reported back to Zhou Yu without mentioning the boats: “Kongming doesn’t seem to need bamboo, feathers, glue, or other materials. He seems to have something else in mind.” Puzzled, Zhou Yu said,“Let’s see what he has to say after three days have gone by.”
Lu Su quietly placed at Kongming’s disposal all he had requested. But neither on the first day nor on the second did Kongming make any move. On the third day at the fourth watch he secretly sent for Lu Su. “Why have you called me here?” Su asked. “Why else? To go with me to fetch the arrows,” Kongming replied. “From where?” inquired Lu Su. “Ask no questions,” said Kongming. “Let’s go; you’ll see.” He ordered the boats linked by long ropes and set out for the north shore.
That night tremendous fogs spread across the heavens, and the river mists were so thick that even face-to-face people could not see each other. Kongming urged his boats on into the deep fog. By the fifth watch Kongming’s little convoy was nearing Cao Cao’s river base. The vessels advanced in single file, their prows pointed west. The crews began to roar and pound their drums. Lu Su was alarmed. “What if they make a sally?” he asked. Kongming smiled and replied, “I’d be very surprised if Cao Cao plunged into this fog. Let’s pour the wine and enjoy ourselves. We’ll go back when the fog lifts.”
As the clamor reaches Cao Cao’s camp, the new naval advisers Mao Jie and Yu Jin sent reports at once. Cao Cao issued an order: “The fog has made the river invisible. This sudden arrival of enemy forces must mean an ambush. I want absolutely no reckless movements. Let the archers and crossbowmen, however, fire upon the enemy at random.” He also sent a man to his land headquarters calling for Zhang Liao and Xu Huang to rush an extra three thousand crossbowmen to the shore. By the time Cao’s order reached Mao Jie and Yu Jin, their men had already begun shooting for fear the southerners would penetrate their camp, Soon, once the marksmen from the land camp had joined the battle, ten thousand men were concentrating their shots toward the river. The shafts came down like rain.
Kongming ordered the boats to reverse direction and press closer to shore to receive the arrows while the crews continued drumming and shouting. When the sun climbed, dispersing the fog, Kongming ordered the boats to hurry homeward. The straw bundles bristled with arrow shafts, for which Kongming had each crew shout in unison: “Thanks to the prime minister for the arrows!” By the time this was reported to Cao Cao, the light craft, borne on swift currents, were twenty li downriver, beyond overtaking. Cao Cao was left with the agony of having played the fool. (1056 words)
Version C
Soon after all the officers were summoned to the main tent, and Zhuge Liang’s presence was desired. He went contentedly enough.
When all were seated, Zhou Yu suddenly addressed Zhuge Liang, saying, “I am going to fight a battle with the enemy soon on the water: what weapons are the best?”
“On a great river arrows are the best,” said Zhuge Liang.
“Your opinion and mine agree. But at the moment we are short of them. I wish you would undertake to supply about a hundred thousand arrows for the naval fight. As it is for the public service, you will not decline, I hope.”
“Whatever task the Commander-in-Chief lays upon me, I must certainly try to perform,” replied Zhuge Liang. “May I inquire by what date you require the hundred thousand arrows?”
“Could you have them ready in ten days?”
“The enemy will be here very soon; ten days will be too late,” said Zhuge Liang.
“In how many days do you estimate the arrows can be ready?”
“Let me have three days; then you may send for your hundred thousand.”
“No joking, remember!” said Zhou Yu. “There is no joking in war time.”
“Dare I joke with the Commander-in-Chief? Give me a formal military order; and if I have not completed the task in three days, I will take my punishment.”
Zhou Yu, secretly delighted, sent for the secretaries and prepared the commission then and there.
Then he drank to the success of the undertaking and said, “I shall have to congratulate you most heartily when this is accomplished.”
“This day is too late to count,” said Zhuge Liang. “On the third from tomorrow morning send five hundred small boats to the river side to convey the arrows.”
They drank a few more cups together, and then Zhuge Liang took his leave.
After he had gone, Lu Su said, “Do you not think there is some deceit about this?”
“Clearly it is not I! It is he who has signed his own death warrant,” said Zhou Yu. “Without being pressed in the least, he asked for a formal order in the face of the whole assembly. Even if he grew a pair of wings, he could not escape. Only I will just order the workers to delay him as much as they can, and not supply him with materials, so that he is sure to fail. And then, when the certain penalty is incurred, who can criticize? You can go and inquire about it all and keep me informed.”
So off went Lu Su to seek Zhuge Liang, who at once reproached him with having blabbed about the former business.
Zhuge Liang said, “He wants to hurt me, as you know, and I did not think you could not keep my secret. And now there is what you saw today and how do you think I can get a hundred thousand arrows made in three days? You will simply have to rescue me.”
“You brought the misfortune on yourself, and how can I rescue you?” said Lu Su.
“I look to you for the loan of twenty vessels, manned each by thirty people. I want blue cotton screens and bundles of straw lashed to the sides of the boats. I have good use for them. On the third day, I have undertaken to deliver the fixed number of arrows. But on no account must you let Zhou Yu know, or my scheme will be wrecked.”
Lu Su consented, and this time he kept his word. He went to report to his chief as usual, but he said nothing about the boats.
He only said, “Zhuge Liang is not using bamboo or feathers or glue or varnish, but has some other way of getting arrows.”
“Let us await the three days’ limit,” said Zhou Yu, puzzled though confident.
On his side Lu Su quietly prepared a score of light swift boats, each with its crew and the blue screens and bundles of grass complete and, when these were ready, he placed them at Zhuge Liang’s disposal.
Zhuge Liang did nothing on the first day, nor on the second. On the third day at the middle of the fourth watch, Zhuge Liang sent a private message asking Lu Su to come to his boat.
“Why have you sent for me, Sir?” asked Lu Su.
“I want you to go with me to get those arrows.”
“Whither are you going?”
“Do not ask; you will see.”
Then the twenty boats were fastened together by long ropes and moved over to the north bank. The night proved very foggy and the mist was very dense along the river, so that one person could scarcely see another. In spite of the fog, Zhuge Liang urged the boats forward as if into the vast fairy kingdom.
The little fleet reached Cao Cao’s naval camp about the fifth watch, and Zhuge Liang gave orders to form line lying prows west, and then to beat the drums and shout.
“But what shall we do if they attack us?” exclaimed Lu Su.
Zhuge Liang replied with a smile, “I think their fleet will not venture out in this fog; go on with your wine and let us be happy. We will go back when the fog lifts.”
As soon as the shouting from the river was heard by those in the camp, the two admirals, Mao Jie and Yu Jin, ran off to report to Cao Cao, who said, “Coming up in a fog like this means that they have prepared an ambush for us. Do not go out, but get all the force together and shoot at them.”
He also sent orders to the ground camps to dispatch six thousand of archers and crossbowmen to aid the marines.
The naval forces were then lined up shooting on the bank to prevent a landing. Presently the soldiers arrived, and ten thousand and more soldiers were shooting down into the river, where the arrows fell like rain. By and bye Zhuge Liang ordered the boats to turn round so that their prows pointed east and to go closer in so that many arrows might hit them.
Zhuge Liang ordered the drums to be kept beating till the sun was high and the fog began to disperse, when the boats got under way and sailed down stream. The whole twenty boats were bristling with arrows on both sides.
As they left, Zhuge Liang asked all the crews to shout derisively, “We thank you, Sir Prime Minister, for the arrows.”
They told Cao Cao, but by the time he came, the light boats helped by the swift current were seven miles long down the river and pursuit was impossible. Cao Cao saw that he had been duped and was very sorry, but there was no help for it. (1138 words)
Notes:
1. Kongming is the courtesy name of Zhuge Liang.
2. One li equals 500 meters.

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Cliffs notes?

:dunno: You're requested to read the same passage three times by three different translators and answer a bunch of questions about it.

 

Also, in contrast to every other time this has ever been posted on the forum, Cliff almost surely HAS written notes on this.

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Will there be a test? I don't like test. :(

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:dunno: You're requested to read the same passage three times by three different translators and answer a bunch of questions about it.

 

Also, in contrast to every other time this has ever been posted on the forum, Cliff almost surely HAS written notes on this.

I read slowly. Is that ok?

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Awesome! I'll do it!

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Awesome! I'll do it!

Sorry peenie. He asked for people who speak English. :o

 

 

 

j/k

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^^^Ha! Ha!

I took a Medieval Japanese history class in college. They patterned their culture from the Chinese. I can offer my opinion and Volty can choose to use or not use it.

 

So far, I like version C the best. They each need improvement.

 

I'll read it properly later.

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I thought five might be a reasonable number to expect. Looks like it may only be one when peenie comes through.

 

You guys suck, I'd this for you.

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Version b reads more fluidity

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I thought five might be a reasonable number to expect. Looks like it may only be one when peenie comes through.

 

You guys suck, I'd this for you.

Yeah penes about as reliable as a heroin addict with ADD.

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For the record, you can tell your buddy from me that the Chinese are to literature what the Irish are to Sanskrit.

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Tell him all I know and recognize of Chinese literature comes from Dynasty Warriors.. Lu Bu kicks ass!

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Tell him all I know and recognize of Chinese literature comes from Dynasty Warriors.. Lu Bu kicks ass!

The Hu Lao Gate stage with Dong Zhuo.

 

It sucks, they only carry the Chinese language version over here.

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I'm not half-inebriated yet, but the day is young. :cheers:

 

Also I'm traveling, about to leave my hotel and won't get to it until tomorrow. Actually my wife would probably be more interested but it wouldn't be until tomorrow or this weekend. I'll ask her when I get home tonight. :cheers:

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I thought five might be a reasonable number to expect. Looks like it may only be one when peenie comes through.

 

You guys suck, I'd this for you.

Yu Suc Tu

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I'm not half-inebriated yet, but the day is young. :cheers:

 

Also I'm traveling, about to leave my hotel and won't get to it until tomorrow. Actually my wife would probably be more interested but it wouldn't be until tomorrow or this weekend. I'll ask her when I get home tonight. :cheers:

TY both.

 

Poor guy has nobody to do this for him and you can see how limited my reach is.

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Too bad you couldnt cobble them together... they each have their own good parts. 3 was easiest to read for a gaijin. Sometimes you leave the more traditional speech to make it seem more period appropriate

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Miyagi hate Chinese!! No focking way! Go pound nails! :mad: :mad:

This was the post of the week.

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I don't see any links.

 

Are we supposed to put our answers in this thread?

It's a good question. I'll have to get his email address. Or you could post them too.

 

I've seen this post all day and have been slow to respond since weekends are crazy here and I'd hoped when i had time to talk to my wife, she would have his email. I got the survey from her. But she, in turn, had forwarded not directly from him but from the mutual friend that had arranged for us to meet the man.

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I don't see any links.

 

Are we supposed to put our answers in this thread?

OK, my wife got the man's email info

 

Professor Ran : 623253175@qq.com

 

Thanks to everybody who helps him out.

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OK, my wife got the man's email info

 

Professor Ran : 623253175@qq.com

 

Thanks to everybody who helps him out.

That e-mail addy is way too long and confusing. Pass.

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bump. He can still use the help.

 

He hadn't gotten any replies.

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