Alias Detective 1,161 Posted November 21, 2017 I can't tell if people here are doing shtick, or if this placing is actually becoming as toxic as it appears to be on paper. Explains? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias Detective 1,161 Posted November 21, 2017 Yep. And lazy thinkers tend to assume that the things their own kind are better at are more important, whereas the things they are worse at are less important. Says who? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias Detective 1,161 Posted November 21, 2017 While most humans enjoy attention from the opposite sex, women also do these things because its men that have traditionally been in power, and we demand it of women if they want to have any chance at anything. Are you are women? Not that I should care since gender doesn't matter. Everyone is equal, YAY, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,617 Posted November 21, 2017 I can't tell if people here are doing shtick, or if this placing is actually becoming as toxic as it appears to be on paper. Wait a minute. You're printing this s*** off onto paper? You do realize you can take your phone into the crapper now right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted November 21, 2017 Every attractive woman I know has stories about guys being inappropriate ranging from unwanted sexual comments etc. to getting handsy or worse. I think 20-30 years ago this stuff was far more common in the working world and women were expected to take it or they werent team players, couldnt take a joke etc. Its probably a good thing that its all coming out now even if some of these stories are on the less serious end of the spectrum. From what I know most of these women arent asking for money or fame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 689 Posted November 21, 2017 Every attractive woman I know has stories about guys being inappropriate ranging from unwanted sexual comments etc. to getting handsy or worse. I think 20-30 years ago this stuff was far more common in the working world and women were expected to take it or they werent team players, couldnt take a joke etc. Its probably a good thing that its all coming out now even if some of these stories are on the less serious end of the spectrum. From what I know most of these women arent asking for money or fame. Is this because its just regular schlubs that did the harassing, do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted November 21, 2017 Is this because its just regular schlubs that did the harassing, do you think? Seriously dont understand your question? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 689 Posted November 21, 2017 Seriously dont understand your question? Are they not looking for money because its just regular schlubs that harassed them? The ones being harassed by celebs or politicians seem to be coming out in droves. Granted, not all are looking for money, but... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted November 21, 2017 Are they not looking for money because its just regular schlubs that harassed them? The ones being harassed by celebs or politicians seem to be coming out in droves. Granted, not all are looking for money, but... Seems like most of the women coming out arent trying to press charges or looking for a shakedown of any kind. I think its because Hollywood and DC are full of entitled narcissistic power brokers and therefore attracts a lot of rapey types. I think harassment is more common day to day than people nigh think but its WAY more common in entertainment and politics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted November 21, 2017 Listening while getting ready this morning and reading some of the stuff over the weekend, it sounds like cooler heads are starting to Prevail a little bit. We can't just enact the death penalty every time a woman opens her mouth. There has to be substance of changes in the overall culture, but this me to crap has swung too far in One Direction. Of course cooler heads will prevail and of course we can't enact the death penalty every time a women opens their mouth. But if you were paying attention, this was the case all along. Examples: - Ben Affleck gets accused of tiitty grabbing....he has to answer a tough question or two during his Justice League press tour....and we move on for the time being. - George H Bush gets accused of booty grabbing...by 1 then 2 then 3 girls......And a few days later he is throwing (kinda) out the first pitch at the World Series to thunderous applause....now that 10-15 girls have made similar claims, he still isn't really being judged too harshly. Yes, at the beginning of any such "movement" things will swing a bit too far, then there will be a recoil. But logic will prevail. Once some time passes and the emotions simmer, people will be put into different categories based on their actions. And at that point some of them will be allowed a chance at redemption. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias Detective 1,161 Posted November 21, 2017 Every attractive woman I know has stories about guys being inappropriate ranging from unwanted sexual comments etc. to getting handsy or worse. I think 20-30 years ago this stuff was far more common in the working world and women were expected to take it or they werent team players, couldnt take a joke etc. Its probably a good thing that its all coming out now even if some of these stories are on the less serious end of the spectrum. From what I know most of these women arent asking for money or fame. Guess what, I was sexually harassed just as many times. I had the entire office, all women, buy me silk boxers with lips on them for Valentine's Day. I laughed it off and knew they were going to be a good group of people to work with. Those that went too far should be dealt with accordingly, if within a reasonable statute of limitations. Ez pz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745 Posted November 22, 2017 Guess what, I was sexually harassed just as many times. I had the entire office, all women, buy me silk boxers with lips on them for Valentine's Day. I laughed it off and knew they were going to be a good group of people to work with. Those that went too far should be dealt with accordingly, if within a reasonable statute of limitations. Ez pz Thats what bothers me about the whole thing. How are you supposed to offer a defense of something twenty years ago? None of the other people you worked with are likely to remember. Hell, some may be dead. The court of public opinion has no rules, and is out of control. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,079 Posted November 22, 2017 As already mentioned unequal doesn't mean inferior. ...At least depending on where you're coming from philosophically. Every woman knows that men are, generally speaking, stronger than women, to consider one trait. A 24-year-old guy with muscular dystrophy relegated to life in a wheelchair is not inferior to me. Let's say he has cerebral palsy too. Still not inferior to me. If human life has intrinsic value, this is how 'all men are created equal' Endowed differently. Essence wise, equal. Okay yay we are all equal! But riddle me this, if you had an open position at your job and you were in charge of the hiring process and the position required good hand eye coordination, would you hire X candidate with no conditions or the candidate with muscular dystrophy? In this case the candidate with muscular dystrophy is inferior to candidate X. Yes they are legally equal, but he is inferior when it comes to this position. Woman are inferior to men in most industries. They test better, they perform better and they b!tch less. And now you also don't have to worry about him saying someone touched his wee-wee 20 years ago during the hiring process. This isn't being mean, its just the facts. It is an accurate generalization to say that men are better employees. It isn't absolute, but if we generalizing its just the facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 22, 2017 Okay yay we are all equal! But riddle me this, if you had an open position at your job and you were in charge of the hiring process and the position required good hand eye coordination, would you hire X candidate with no conditions or the candidate with muscular dystrophy? In this case the candidate with muscular dystrophy is inferior to candidate X. Yes they are legally equal, but he is inferior when it comes to this position. Woman are inferior to men in most industries. They test better, they perform better and they b!tch less. And now you also don't have to worry about him saying someone touched his wee-wee 20 years ago during the hiring process. This isn't being mean, its just the facts. It is an accurate generalization to say that men are better employees. It isn't absolute, but if we generalizing its just the facts. Other than jobs which require physical strength, link? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Filthy Fernadez 2,696 Posted November 22, 2017 I think we can all agree just as blacks can't be racists, women can't be sexual harassers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,403 Posted November 22, 2017 Other than jobs which require physical strength, link? Is everyone's personal experience irrelevant? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,079 Posted November 22, 2017 Other than jobs which require physical strength, link? Im not going to make a of list industries women are inferior to men or visa versa. My point remains. Take your fedora off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,617 Posted November 22, 2017 Yeah, but without women, who would organize those god-awful monthly birthday parties at the office? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 986 Posted November 22, 2017 Is everyone's personal experience irrelevant?yes. The fact that you have seen first hand how women stack up and fail against men in most industries is not relevant. Only the fact they are equal to men is relevant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 22, 2017 Im not going to make a of list industries women are inferior to men or visa versa. My point remains. Take your fedora off. The fedora joke was funny initially, but try some new material. I'm not requesting all the jobs; just a few to understand where you're coming from. In general, I think women make better doctors, for example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted November 22, 2017 Yeah, but without women, who would organize those god-awful monthly birthday parties at the office?newbie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 22, 2017 Is everyone's personal experience irrelevant? Since I know none of you understand the basis of scientific proof, anecdotal evidence is all I ever expect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,248 Posted November 22, 2017 I deleted my comment because I realized my statements are part of the problem. Dammit peenie! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,068 Posted November 22, 2017 Since I know none of you understand the basis of scientific proof, anecdotal evidence is all I ever expect. I understand the basic of scientific proof, but thank you for lowering your expectations for me. Speaking of which, what scientific proof makes women better doctors in your opinion? Are we talking bedside manner/empathizing with the patient, or complex surgery skills? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted November 22, 2017 Okay yay we are all equal! But riddle me this, if you had an open position at your job and you were in charge of the hiring process and the position required good hand eye coordination, would you hire X candidate with no conditions or the candidate with muscular dystrophy? In this case the candidate with muscular dystrophy is inferior to candidate X. Yes they are legally equal, but he is inferior when it comes to this position. Woman are inferior to men in most industries. So you believe white people are inferior to black people I see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naomi 343 Posted November 22, 2017 Okay yay we are all equal! But riddle me this, if you had an open position at your job and you were in charge of the hiring process and the position required good hand eye coordination, would you hire X candidate with no conditions or the candidate with muscular dystrophy? In this case the candidate with muscular dystrophy is inferior to candidate X. Yes they are legally equal, but he is inferior when it comes to this position. Woman are inferior to men in most industries. They test better, they perform better and they b!tch less. And now you also don't have to worry about him saying someone touched his wee-wee 20 years ago during the hiring process. This isn't being mean, its just the facts. It is an accurate generalization to say that men are better employees. It isn't absolute, but if we generalizing its just the facts. Personally I look around and see more upsides to the fact men and women, with their generally different traits, exist. But I lean a bit old-fashioned too, and while I despise people being rigid or autocratic about "roles", staying in your lane, traditional roles don't offend me. When people have good character, are noble, and respect each other, it's fine. At the same time, anyone, male or female, who has a true gift that is an asset to a field shouldn't be counted out of it simply because it's not traditional for their sex. While being in it should be merit based purely, the door should be open. Anyway, how inferiority/superiority is defined in regards to performance in "most industries" would need to be figured out in a very circumspect and comprehensive manner. Then data and studies would need to be poured over, and other data gathered, if we were going to validate your presuppositions. Hypothetically, if they were validated, which I don't see happening because I see both sexes as having integral, co-dependent roles to human life and prosperity...but hypothetically, if they were, again it's the existence of the person simply being a person (especially if you believe each human life has been created) where being "equal" comes in. Providence has you here as much as it has me here. We weren't in control of that. We can weigh things in our world all day, but be totally off the mark of the big picture understanding of why we were part of "and, behold, it was very good." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 986 Posted November 22, 2017 So you believe white people are inferior to black people I see.yep. It's just whitey holding them down. Damn the man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,079 Posted November 22, 2017 So you believe white people are inferior to black people I see. I love that I made no mention of race and all I said was someone had better hand/eye coordination and your mind immediately assumes the person was black. Yet were the racists. Go fock yourself. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,079 Posted November 22, 2017 Personally I look around and see more upsides to the fact men and women, with their generally different traits, exist. But I lean a bit old-fashioned too, and while I despise people being rigid or autocratic about "roles", staying in your lane, traditional roles don't offend me. When people have good character, are noble, and respect each other, it's fine. At the same time, anyone, male or female, who has a true gift that is an asset to a field shouldn't be counted out of it simply because it's not traditional for their sex. While being in it should be merit based purely, the door should be open. Anyway, how inferiority/superiority is defined in regards to performance in "most industries" would need to be figured out in a very circumspect and comprehensive manner. Then data and studies would need to be poured over, and other data gathered, if we were going to validate your presuppositions. Hypothetically, if they were validated, which I don't see happening because I see both sexes as having integral, co-dependent roles to human life and prosperity...but hypothetically, if they were, again it's the existence of the person simply being a person (especially if you believe each human life has been created) where being "equal" comes in. Providence has you here as much as it has me here. We weren't in control of that. We can weigh things in our world all day, but be totally off the mark of the big picture understanding of why we were part of "and, behold, it was very good." We were talking on a generalization basis and now on an individual basis. If you are suggesting that I would pick a male over a female when they are equally qualified then you couldnt be further from the truth. I am saying more often than not they arent equally qualified. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naomi 343 Posted November 22, 2017 We were talking on a generalization basis and now on an individual basis. If you are suggesting that I would pick a male over a female when they are equally qualified then you couldnt be further from the truth. I am saying more often than not they arent equally qualified. The original statement was that women are not equal to men, they are inferior. You were agreeing with whatever poster said that. When "equality" is brought up, average people without a radicalized mindset in one direction, are not thinking of men and women being endowed in a similar manner foremost. They are thinking of the value of life. Which is why I originally noted the whole discussion hinges on philosophy. If you define value by utility, and you believe you have the utility picture figured out in favor of one sex, then even value of life wise, men and women would not be equal to you. In order to discuss the other philosophy though, which is where many people are coming from with use of the word "equal", the individual is the whole crux of the matter. A singular person. Soul. Life. Distinct. Intended. eta: And I didn't think you would hire a male over an equally qualified female. I was just putting a full context on my approach to this stuff, since I definitely don't approach inferiority/superiority the same way as some here, yet am actually a bit "traditional." Liberty is beautiful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,068 Posted November 23, 2017 The original statement was that women are not equal to men, they are inferior. You were agreeing with whatever poster said that. When "equality" is brought up, average people without a radicalized mindset in one direction, are not thinking of men and women being endowed in a similar manner foremost. They are thinking of the value of life. Which is why I originally noted the whole discussion hinges on philosophy. If you define value by utility, and you believe you have the utility picture figured out in favor of one sex, then even value of life wise, men and women would not be equal to you. In order to discuss the other philosophy though, which is where many people are coming from with use of the word "equal", the individual is the whole crux of the matter. A singular person. Soul. Life. Distinct. Intended. eta: And I didn't think you would hire a male over an equally qualified female. I was just putting a full context on my approach to this stuff, since I definitely don't approach inferiority/superiority the same way as some here, yet am actually a bit "traditional." Liberty is beautiful. I would like to think that whoever said women are inferior to men was trolling. That being said, the Bell Curve dictates that men are better on average at some things, and women at others. So if you had to pick an applicant at random for, say, a position requiring math, you would have a minimally better shot at a good worker if you picked a man. If you needed an advanced mathematician,your odds are much better if you pick a man (although low in both cases), because at the high end of the bell curve of spatial relationships/mathematics are men. If it is not random and you get to actually assess candidates, then you pick the best one. Similar arguments could be made for women, ethnicities, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted November 23, 2017 I love that I made no mention of race and all I said was someone had better hand/eye coordination and your mind immediately assumes the person was black. Yet were the racists. Go fock yourself. You are using hand/eye coordination as your criteria for why person A is superior to person B. You cant just change the criteria by which someones is judged when your type would then be judged inferior. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,079 Posted November 23, 2017 You are using hand/eye coordination as your criteria for why person A is superior to person B. You cant just change the criteria by which someones is judged when your type would then be judged inferior. No sh!t, thats my point. And when that happened I wouldnt scream sexism or racism either. Id step my game up. And when it comes to careers and hiring or how much you pay someone you certainly can change the criteria for whatever that specific job requires. Youre nuts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naomi 343 Posted November 23, 2017 I would like to think that whoever said women are inferior to men was trolling. That being said, the Bell Curve dictates that men are better on average at some things, and women at others. So if you had to pick an applicant at random for, say, a position requiring math, you would have a minimally better shot at a good worker if you picked a man. If you needed an advanced mathematician,your odds are much better if you pick a man (although low in both cases), because at the high end of the bell curve of spatial relationships/mathematics are men. If it is not random and you get to actually assess candidates, then you pick the best one. Similar arguments could be made for women, ethnicities, etc. He (Kilroy) wasn't. But he's basing that off of thoughts like 'men are stronger', 'perform better at most jobs', etc. The latter is not a discussion that I was wading into because it would be foolish for any of us to think we can sit here and truly break that down. To really talk about that, the breadth of careers out there, a holistic idea of what's needed to perform well, how well is defined, and so on. ^Thanks though for the info. So many novel thoughts in this thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mookz 1,286 Posted November 23, 2017 I thought hand-eye coordination was the one thing that still gave whitey a chance in sports. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 23, 2017 I understand the basic of scientific proof, but thank you for lowering your expectations for me. Speaking of which, what scientific proof makes women better doctors in your opinion? Are we talking bedside manner/empathizing with the patient, or complex surgery skills? I have no scientific proof, just they tend to listen and empathize better. I’ve seen no difference in surgical skill between male and female surgeons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,248 Posted November 23, 2017 This thread runs the gamut. Misogyny. Racism. Then some disability discrimination tossed in for good measure. Keep it up, Geeks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,617 Posted November 23, 2017 Biggest proof that women are inferior creatures is that the Kardashians have something like 70 million followers. You think there's a lot of straight dudes in that group? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted November 24, 2017 Biggest proof that women are inferior creatures is that the Kardashians have something like 70 million followers. You think there's a lot of straight dudes in that group? So you are using a group of hugely successful women as proof that women are inferior? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,940 Posted November 24, 2017 The fedora joke was funny initially, but try some new material. I'm not requesting all the jobs; just a few to understand where you're coming from. In general, I think women make better doctors, for example. I prefer a woman doctor since they always ask me to disrobe and jack off into a plant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites