CNN says its not fair that those without money in stock market can't share in the boom.

[edjr 5,547]

All most Americans can see is that two things constantly go up. Prices and share value.

 

Wages dont. Havent had significant wage increases in a long time.

 

Meanwhile everything else has gone up and up.

 

The basics. Housing, transportation, and medical, Are becoming more than a significant portion of the workforce can afford. Forget about frills like education, retirement or any of that.

 

Its a problem. Deny it all you like.

 

 

rent is OUTRAGEOUS right now.

[TD Ryan2 314]

It's BS that these business owners have businesses and get to make profits. I don't have a business. If someone gave me a business I could have profits too.

 

understandably - it's not BS at all... they have, in many cases, risked everything and put everything on the line to get where they are.

And that's kinda' the problem.

 

We are in an ALL or NOTHING society... either you take the risk, take the plunge into starting you own business to try and truly reach financial success/independence or your don't.

 

If you don't, you're part of the failing middle class.

If you do, there's a good chance you could fail and never recover - a lot has to go right for your business to take off and more fail than succeed.

 

And with that equation - society is given a choice: Jump off that cliff and hope you're one of the ones that makes it.

[supermike80 1,285]

 

understandably - it's not BS at all... they have, in many cases, risked everything and put everything on the line to get where they are.

And that's kinda' the problem.

 

We are in an ALL or NOTHING society... either you take the risk, take the plunge into starting you own business to try and truly reach financial success/independence or your don't.

 

If you don't, you're part of the failing middle class.

If you do, there's a good chance you could fail and never recover - a lot has to go right for your business to take off and more fail than succeed.

 

And with that equation - society is given a choice: Jump off that cliff and hope you're one of the ones that makes it.

I was being sarcastic...But yes.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

No, I insinuated that the race for financial freedom is not a level playing field. Do you dispute that?

 

Why are you running away Edjr?

[DankNuggs 305]

 

You realize this didn't JUST happen, right? Other casinos were doing fine during the period Donnie was going ###### up.

Usually the last things built before the market tanks are the most vulnerable. Usually have the most leverage because in an upswing underwriting tends to get looser the more confidence people (banks) have. That allows higher loan to value ratios, debt service coverage ratio, etc... Not to mention the newest thing built usually costs the most. All this leaves less room for market variance/downturn as the margin for error is smaller and more reliant on the growth trend of the past.

[DankNuggs 305]

Our failure to educate kids on real life economics is as much to blame as anything else here.

 

We spend countless hours teaching kids Shakespeare, French, and all sorts of useless stuff when we should be teaching them about work ethic, saving, expense control, mortgages, credit and investing.

Being educated isn't useless. Learning how to think and process. While i agree learning about personal finance is valuable, i don't really believe its just lack of knowledge as to why kids run up credit card debt they can't afford. Its immaturity. If you could solve immaturity with a class you'd be really onto something.

[5-Points 2,715]

I think it's more of a one way street.

 

When the market is up - they stay afloat and keep their jobs.

When the market is down, - they get laid off, lose their homes and insurance, compromise their children's futures/educations... and yes, their ass is about all they have left.

 

Poor and middle class never feel the bump of the booming market - only the fall of the bad market.

Fair point.

 

Although, the guy on welfare is still on welfare regardless what the market does. He isn't going to feel the ups or downs of the market as much as the guy who has 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars (or more) invested.

[parrot 789]

You are combining things that are seperate... He took money out of going public, as well as the fees he earned from the transactions. The people who invested in that public company were aware of the finance structure of it. And it didn't work out. The market tanked.

 

Even well run, efficient companies can run into liquidity squeezes and be forced into bankruptcy. Its usually a combination of an unfavorable economy timed with loan coming due that can't be refinanced in the current climate. It you can't refinance it, you can't sell it to get out of the situation.

 

It was doomed to fail the minute he financed those casinos with 14% junk bonds. That was HIS terrible business decision that lined up all the dominoes. And yeah, he got other people to buy in. No one claimed his not a good con-man, just not a good business-man.

[Strike 3,949]

There's no reason many people can't take part in the market. Skip a 12 pack of beer and put that money in the market. If many of these "poor" people who somehow can still afford to smoke a crap ton and drink a bunch simply cut back on those vices and/or other areas where they waste money and put it in the market, they'd be shocked what compounding would do to their money over 30 years. But they don't. They just get drunk and rail on the rich people. And yes I realize there are some people truly living paycheck to paycheck but I see too many "poor" people who somehow can still afford their vices. And yes they aren't going to get rich but they'll have a hell of a lot more than they do now and would actually be able to participate in the market.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Abraham Lincoln had a sick mind? He's the one that first made it law.

He did. There were lots of things about Abraham Lincoln which weren't kosher, not the least of which was supporting the Hamiltonian version of Centralized Government.

 

And this one - progressive taxation - was equally sick. It was a virus injected into American conscience.

 

 

You are either an extreme troll or simply insane. Could go either way.

Your attempts to silence through insult don't work with me. You can't even support the simple claim you made that tax cuts cause deficits.

[IMMensaMind 459]

It was doomed to fail the minute he financed those casinos with 14% junk bonds. That was HIS terrible business decision that lined up all the dominoes. And yeah, he got other people to buy in. No one claimed his not a good con-man, just not a good business-man.

 

That's pretty revisionist history, considering that one of the core reasons these casinos failed was the same reason so many other Atlantic City casinos failed - along with the fact that he didn't have majority share OR overriding control of any BOD of any casino which failed. He had to sue to remove his name from some of the casinos with which he was involved.

 

Regardless: blaming Trump for business failure is pedantic. Businesses fail. He overall track record is quite good.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Start by not having kids you can't afford, focus on getting where you want to be instead of what feels good now, realize you don't deserve success you earn it, invest in things that appreciate in value (cars almost always depreciate) and stop being a victim.

[TD Ryan2 314]

Start by not having kids you can't afford, focus on getting where you want to be instead of what feels good now, realize you don't deserve success you earn it, invest in things that appreciate in value (cars almost always depreciate) and stop being a victim.

[edjr 5,547]

Start by not having kids you can't afford, focus on getting where you want to be instead of what feels good now, realize you don't deserve success you earn it, invest in things that appreciate in value (cars almost always depreciate) and stop being a victim.

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

seems pretty straightforward to me...

 

I think we all agree that the middle class is shrinking/dying.

I think we all agree that there is growing income gap divide.

 

if the largest/best earning vehicle for your society is only usable/accessible to a fraction of that society, the problem of income gaps and shrinking middle class will be exacerbated.

 

 

Certainly the issue/debate revolves around WHY some don't use/access the stock market... but the fact remains that a significant number of people don't, can't, or don't know how and that's not a good thing for society and the failing middle class.

 

not true middle class will always be around 50% its not shrinking. Also the income gap is because of choice

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

'The Rich' includes people that started off with nothing but a drive to succeed. People that make their own fortune by not sitting around waiting for it to happen.

 

Those that inherit wealth had parents with sense enough not to get all ghetto rich with their money thus providing something of value that will last generations.

 

The poor typically make poor choices even when handed a fortune (see lottery winners) thus making mistakes that will last generations.

 

yep I started with zero and made money on my own, opened a trading account with 500$ years ago and read and played it safe

 

loving the market

[crackattack 513]

All most Americans can see is that two things constantly go up. Prices and share value.

 

Wages dont. Havent had significant wage increases in a long time.

 

Meanwhile everything else has gone up and up.

 

The basics. Housing, transportation, and medical, Are becoming more than a significant portion of the workforce can afford. Forget about frills like education, retirement or any of that.

 

Its a problem. Deny it all you like.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

Start by not having kids you can't afford, focus on getting where you want to be instead of what feels good now, realize you don't deserve success you earn it, invest in things that appreciate in value (cars almost always depreciate) and stop being a victim.

You should go to the slums and teach people how to become rich. You sound like you have it all figured out.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

Start by not having kids you can't afford, focus on getting where you want to be instead of what feels good now, realize you don't deserve success you earn it, invest in things that appreciate in value (cars almost always depreciate) and stop being a victim.

 

just to take it a step further

 

2% of Americans live in poverty if they follow these steps

 

1) Finish High School

2) Get a Job

3) Get Married, then have kids

[vuduchile 1,940]

Being educated isn't useless. Learning how to think and process. While i agree learning about personal finance is valuable, i don't really believe its just lack of knowledge as to why kids run up credit card debt they can't afford. Its immaturity. If you could solve immaturity with a class you'd be really onto something.

Sure, education on the whole is important. But more emphasis on how to handle money vs. some electives at the HS level is sorely needed IMO.

[TD Ryan2 314]

Sure, education on the whole is important. But more emphasis on how to handle money vs. some electives at the HS level is sorely needed IMO.

hey - I'm a big believer in the arts, so don't get me wrong here... but I've always thought it was crazy that you don't take 2 classes in H.S. that go something like this:

 

- Junior Year - buy your first car class - teaches you all about financing, downpayments, and pitfalls/shadyness of buying a car.

- Senior Year - buy your first house - builds on the junior year course and now brings more contractual awareness and long term financing into the picture.

 

seems to me these are the two biggest purchases for middle america and if they understand it, we'll all be better off.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

You should go to the slums and teach people how to become rich. You sound like you have it all figured out.

What's your address? I'll start there.

 

 

Oh and Don't eat sh!t and die.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

What's your address? I'll start there.

 

 

Oh and Don't eat sh!t and die.

No seriously. You should tell them your plan. There'd be no more slums. Nothing but wealthy folks.

 

Always love when a person who never wanted for a thing tries to tell those born in poverty what they should have done different.

[Strike 3,949]

No seriously. You should tell them your plan. There'd be no more slums. Nothing but wealthy folks.

 

Always love when a person who never wanted for a thing tries to tell those born in poverty what they should have done different.

 

WTF does whether you were born in to poverty or not have to do with the things it takes to be successful in life? Seems like the specific actions FF mentioned are pretty common sense. Should I really feel sorry for a chick who has 5 kids before she's 18? And somehow it's OUR fault? At some point people need to take responsibility for their own success.

[vuduchile 1,940]

hey - I'm a big believer in the arts, so don't get me wrong here... but I've always thought it was crazy that you don't take 2 classes in H.S. that go something like this:

 

- Junior Year - buy your first car class - teaches you all about financing, downpayments, and pitfalls/shadyness of buying a car.

- Senior Year - buy your first house - builds on the junior year course and now brings more contractual awareness and long term financing into the picture.

 

seems to me these are the two biggest purchases for middle america and if they understand it, we'll all be better off.

Yep. That would be a good start.

 

Our school district has a program that provides a $5K/year for tuition assistance for every single student that graduates HS. They get $5K for each year of high school and another $5K if they were in the district for junior high. That's $25K.

 

It's an awesome benefit for those who are pursuing a degree, but meaningless to those who aren't. Many who aren't cut out for college end up wasting it at JuCo or some other trade school.

 

Why not give them all an opportunity to invest that money in their future whether it be college or some other vocation?

 

Create an investment account for each incoming freshman with that $5K, or $10K if they were in junior high. Add the additional $5K every year they pass to the next grade. Have them work with an investment fund manager to run their investments. When they graduate, they have can access the fund for college, trade school, to start a biz, whatever.

 

They'll learn a lot about investing, budgeting, and planning in the process.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

 

WTF does whether you were born in to poverty or not have to do with the things it takes to be successful in life? Seems like the specific actions FF mentioned are pretty common sense. Should I really feel sorry for a chick who has 5 kids before she's 18? And somehow it's OUR fault? At some point people need to take responsibility for their own success.

I don't think anyone ever said it was your fault. This twisted way of looking at things is why you live with so much hatred.

[IGotWorms 3,302]

'The Rich' includes people that started off with nothing but a drive to succeed. People that make their own fortune by not sitting around waiting for it to happen.

 

Those that inherit wealth had parents with sense enough not to get all ghetto rich with their money thus providing something of value that will last generations.

 

The poor typically make poor choices even when handed a fortune (see lottery winners) thus making mistakes that will last generations.

I disagree with the premise that there's virtue in being rich and fault in being poor.

 

Sure many rich people work for it, and god bless 'em. But being rich isn't synonymous with hard work -- many are simply handed their fortunes.

 

And many poor people are quite industrious. They just don't have the leg up often necessary to become rich. Not saying it's impossible but it sure as hell helps A LOT.

[12th Man 884]

This It takes money to make money. Flipping houses, stock market investments. All great ways to build a fortune. Unfortunately, a huge percentage of the population is trying to figure out how to pay the month's rent. Donald Trump is perfect proof. With his intelligence and personality, he'd be a janitor if he didn't have a father who was a real estate tycoon.

maybe you should have aspired to be more than a warehouse monkey?

[posty 2,296]

Link to me saying that no one ever focked it up?

Should be quick for someone that hasn't even been here a month...

[patweisers44 697]

yes.

and today, that opportunity is... the opportunity to make $50k a year at a job that doesn't really afford anyone enough to buy a house, raise a family, and will only be steady as long as the market is up.

Then how about just this? live in an apartment/house you can afford, don't have kids until you can pay for them, and just live within your means in general.

[Jesus Chrysler 29]

maybe you should have aspired to be more than a warehouse monkey?

I will name you Fido. Since you follow me around like a puppy.

 

Fido

[edjr 5,547]

hey - I'm a big believer in the arts, so don't get me wrong here... but I've always thought it was crazy that you don't take 2 classes in H.S. that go something like this:

 

- Junior Year - buy your first car class - teaches you all about financing, downpayments, and pitfalls/shadyness of buying a car.

- Senior Year - buy your first house - builds on the junior year course and now brings more contractual awareness and long term financing into the picture.

 

seems to me these are the two biggest purchases for middle america and if they understand it, we'll all be better off.

 

Add in a class for going to the focking dentist and a class for money management

 

so many people that don't grow up with parents that give a sh1t, end up with bad teeth and sh1t breath because their parents didn't teach them to go to the focking dentist and they dont go until they have an abscessed tooth, recessed gums and worst.

 

They should teach that sh1t in high school

[Cdub100 3,366]

yes.

and today, that opportunity is... the opportunity to make $50k a year at a job that doesn't really afford anyone enough to buy a house, raise a family, and will only be steady as long as the market is up.

Again bull focking sh1t. You can always better yourself. If you choose to remain in a entry level job that's on you.

[Cdub100 3,366]

hey - I'm a big believer in the arts, so don't get me wrong here... but I've always thought it was crazy that you don't take 2 classes in H.S. that go something like this:

 

- Junior Year - buy your first car class - teaches you all about financing, downpayments, and pitfalls/shadyness of buying a car.

- Senior Year - buy your first house - builds on the junior year course and now brings more contractual awareness and long term financing into the picture.

 

seems to me these are the two biggest purchases for middle america and if they understand it, we'll all be better off.

They teach that stuff in school. It's in those math classes everyone b1tches about how they "will never use this stuff"

[TD Ryan2 314]

Again bull focking sh1t. You can always better yourself. If you choose to remain in a entry level job that's on you.

 

everyone can't be the CEO... and I'm not talking entry-level, 30k/yr jobs... I'm talking the 50 to 60k/yr jobs that make up the majority of the jobs for society.

It's a problem... 50k, 60k... doesn't make ends meet anymore. If you think it does, I'll listen to you explain how.

[Cdub100 3,366]

 

Add in a class for going to the focking dentist and a class for money management

 

so many people that don't grow up with parents that give a sh1t, end up with bad teeth and sh1t breath because their parents didn't teach them to go to the focking dentist and they dont go until they have an abscessed tooth, recessed gums and worst.

 

They should teach that sh1t in high school

They do teach that sh1t in schools. You don't have kids do you Ed?

[edjr 5,547]

They do teach that sh1t in schools. You don't have kids do you Ed?

 

they didn't when I went. and last I knew they didn't

 

yeah, he's 4.

[TD Ryan2 314]

They teach that stuff in school. It's in those math classes everyone b1tches about how they "will never use this stuff"

I do not think many if any kids coming out of high school are truly prepared to sit down at a car dealership or execute a purchase&sale on a home. Agreed that they've been taught math, but they still have no idea what either situation really involves and going thru it "mock style" a few time would be invaluable IMO.

[edjr 5,547]

I do not think many if any kids coming out of high school are truly prepared to sit down at a car dealership or execute a purchase&sale on a home. Agreed that they've been taught math, but they still have no idea what either situation really involves and going thru it "mock style" a few time would be invaluable IMO.

 

 

cdub is living in some kinda sick bubble.

[Cdub100 3,366]

 

they didn't when I went. and last I knew they didn't

 

yeah, he's 4.

I didn't know that. Congrats.

 

My kids bring all kinds of stuff home including a tooth brush when a dentist visited the class room and taught them the important of brushing and flossing. Of course this is a parents job but some schools try...

 

I can't speak for all schools though so there probably is a GAP.