Phil Ivey accused of cheating by the Borgata Casino

[BufordT 371]

 

Phil Ivey calls himself "the greatest poker player of all time," but a casino in Atlantic City has accused him of being something else: a cheat.

In a lawsuit, the Borgata claims Ivey pocketed more than $9.6 million by cheating at baccarat, the card game made famous by James Bond where the object is to pick the hand with the value closest to nine.

As a well-known poker pro who has won nine World Series of Poker bracelets and nearly $22 million in prize money, Phil Ivey was allowed to make a lot of requests. When he visited the Borgata in 2012, he requested a private pit, a particular set of playing cards and an automatic shuffler. Initially the hotel was happy to oblige the gambler, but now the casino thinks he made those requests just so he could cheat, reports CBS News correspondent Vinita Nair.

The casino claims in court documents that Ivey and a female accomplice studied the edges of the playing cards for tell-tale imperfections. Once Ivey knew the value of those cards, he could then make big bets when those cards were re-dealt. It's a tactic called edge-sorting.

Gaming consultant Eliot Jacobson said playing cards often have irregular patterns along the edges because of printing errors.

"The casinos should be more careful with the cards they use, but the truth is that most of the decks of cards that are out there have some sort of design flaw," he said.

According to the Borgata lawsuit, Ivey visited the casino four times in 2012. He was betting as much as $100,000 per hand.

The casino says edge sorting gave Ivey at least a 6.5 percent edge over the house, or more than $6,500 dollars won for every $100,000 wagered.

"By itself, there's nothing inherently wrong with edge sorting," Jacobson said. "The question is what else did he do? Did he involve the dealers in some sort of collusion? Did he work out some sort of deal with the card manufacturer?"

Borgata officials finally caught on after Ivey's fourth visit, when they learned he had been accused of edge sorting by the London casino Crockfords, which withheld more than $12 million of his winnings just two months earlier.

Ivey filed a lawsuit to force Crockfords to release his earnings, and this time he's betting on the law.

Ivey's representative told CBS News that Ivey takes the matter seriously and will defend himself against any questions of his integrity. Edge sorting has never been declared illegal anywhere, which means Ivey's cases could have the potential to set a big precedent.

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poker-pro-phil-ivey-accused-of-cheating-by-the-borgata-in-atlantic-city/

 

I'm assuming it wasn't Sam "Ace" Rothstein running the show at the Borgata. Nice job, Phil.

[frank 2,144]

From what I have read, he did nothing wrong. As long as he did not mark the cards somehow, the casino has no case.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Unless he colluded with an inside source, this is no difference than counting cards. While the casino has the right to not do business with the guy, they have no case to get their money back.

[GobbleDog 816]

I love to see casinos lose money and I think Ivey is a douch.

 

Either way this case goes, I'll be partly happy.

[kilroy69 994]

Vikes they are not making a claim that he had an inside man. Their only claim is that he noticed a flaw in the cards and not only did not tell them but used it to his advantage to win millions. This is a double failure on the part of the casino. The first is in not catching that the cards were defective and the 2nd was alowwing ivy to win as much without understanding something was wrong with his betting and winning.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Vikes they are not making a claim that he had an inside man. Their only claim is that he noticed a flaw in the cards and not only did not tell them but used it to his advantage to win millions. This is a double failure on the part of the casino. The first is in not catching that the cards were defective and the 2nd was alowwing ivy to win as much without understanding something was wrong with his betting and winning.

Gaming consultant Eliot Jacobson said playing cards often have irregular patterns along the edges because of printing errors.

"The casinos should be more careful with the cards they use, but the truth is that most of the decks of cards that are out there have some sort of design flaw," he said.

According to the Borgata lawsuit, Ivey visited the casino four times in 2012. He was betting as much as $100,000 per hand.

The casino says edge sorting gave Ivey at least a 6.5 percent edge over the house, or more than $6,500 dollars won for every $100,000 wagered.

"By itself, there's nothing inherently wrong with edge sorting," Jacobson said. "The question is what else did he do? Did he involve the dealers in some sort of collusion? Did he work out some sort of deal with the card manufacturer?"

Like I said, if it's just that Ivey figured out how to put the odds in his favor, the casino should have no case.

[SUXBNME 1,328]

I didn't realize that he is still relevant

 

Seriously...It's like he dropped out of the mainstream for casual followers like myself a few years ago.

I

[SUXBNME 1,328]

Now that I read the whole story - GO IVEY

[kilroy69 994]

It is one thing to think that Ivy may have worked out a deal with your own people for an inside man. To accuse the manufacturer of being in it seems like a very long shot at best and possible slander.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

The guy is a douche, but he is a very interesting douche.

[kutulu 1,545]

The guy is a douche, but he is a very interesting douche.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/phil-ivey-stone-cold-nuts-439786/

[edjr 5,562]

when he was labeled the Tiger Woods of poker, it was 100% accurate.

 

As they are both cvvnts

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

When my brother and I turned 18, there was a casino in nearby Tunica that still had single deck blackjack. Dad taught us how to count cards (any idiot can count a single deck) and we would regularly go down there and slay that place.

 

We were asked to leave frequently. Eventually they got rid of single deck, and now all the tables are dealt from large shoes, which is considerably harder to count.

[patweisers44 697]

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poker-pro-phil-ivey-accused-of-cheating-by-the-borgata-in-atlantic-city/

 

I'm assuming it wasn't Sam "Ace" Rothstein running the show at the Borgata. Nice job, Phil.

All right, I'm gonna give you a choice. You can either have the money or you can walk out of here. You can't have both. What do you want?

 

[Bert 1,091]

when he was labeled the Tiger Woods of poker, it was 100% accurate.

 

As they are both cvvnts

 

He labeled himself the Tiger Woods and Michael Jordon of poker. All three are cvnts be he takes it over the top with the self-proclamation.

[BufordT 371]

All right, I'm gonna give you a choice. You can either have the money and the hammer or you can walk out of here. You can't have both. What do you want?

 

Fixed. Makes it a tougher choice.

[RLLD 3,455]

Poor casino, how are they going to feed their family?

[edjr 5,562]

Poor casino, how are they going to feed their family?

 

get a contract in the NFL or MLB?

[RLLD 3,455]

 

get a contract in the NFL or MLB?

 

LOL

[The Moz 69]

when he was labeled the Tiger Woods of poker, it was 100% accurate.

 

As they are both cvvnts

I thought it was becasue they looked alike

[BufordT 371]

Phil Ivey loses his court case in London. The casino returns his $1 million stake but keeps his winnings. The casino wins even when they lose. Disappointing.

Good news for the Borgata.

http://espn.go.com/espn/chalk/story/_/id/11665414/phil-ivey-loses-124m-battle-court-being-accused-improperly-withholding-winnings

[dain11279 927]

Damn casinos. Ivey's a good dude though. I was at the Bellagio a few years back and offered to buy him a beer when he was hanging out at the bar by the poker room. He declined but I talked to him for 5 minutes or so. Really down to earth.

[jerryskids 5,192]

 

Phil Ivey loses his court case in London. The casino returns his $1 million stake but keeps his winnings. The casino wins even when they lose. Disappointing.

Good news for the Borgata.

http://espn.go.com/espn/chalk/story/_/id/11665414/phil-ivey-loses-124m-battle-court-being-accused-improperly-withholding-winnings

 

Something seems wrong with this. I just read up on edge-sorting, and they let him do all of the things an edge-sorter would do. Had he lost, would they have given him his initial stake back? Is the casino not responsible to train their staff to be aware of such things?

[Giants Fan 85]

It's the same as card counting. It's not cheating, it's making an advantage play.

[Giants Fan 85]

What a lot of people don't understand, because they saw the movie 21 or whatever, is that you can still lose, when you make an advantage play. In the gambling world it's called variance.if we make a deal where we flip a coin, and every time you win, I give you a dollar, and every time I win, you give me a dollar, and a dime, you may be ahead after, 10, even 100 flips. A variance from the norm. You can be excellent at counting cards, and still lose over an 8 hour session of blackjack.

 

So, that's all Ivey did here, was turn the tables on the casino, and I think the stat is it made it 57 to 43. That is a big advantage, but as Ivey said, "they granted my requests."

 

So fock them. They focked up, made some bad decisions and lost. That's their very own business model. They are wagering every day that people will make bad decisions and bet at a statistical disadvantage.

[edjr 5,562]

Something seems wrong with this. I just read up on edge-sorting, and they let him do all of the things an edge-sorter would do. Had he lost, would they have given him his initial stake back? Is the casino not responsible to train their staff to be aware of such things?

 

One of the worst decisions to come from a court ever.

That says a lot.

[Giants Fan 85]

It,s at least partly the card manf. fault, I think it's Gemco, but I could be wrong. They provided their customer with a faulty deck of cards. Since it is a civil suit, multiple ppl can be responsible.

 

And, yes, he could have lost. He had an advantage, but he still could have lost. And then this wouldn't be news.

[BufordT 371]

http://www.flushdraw.net/news/borgata-fires-back-at-cardmaker-gemaco-in-phil-ivey-edge-sorting-case/

 

This is one of the more interesting cases I've followed in a while.

 

Me has a feeling the Borgata is getting their money back....wrongfully so.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Phil is awesome, its yall who are the cvvnts.

[Strike 3,964]

How else Phil Ivey gonna get his money?

[CantTouchThis 23]

$9.6M is chump change to him. He wins and loses a million or two every 20 minutes playing craps. That being said, all he did was exploit a mistake on the casino. That is definitely on them, but I am not sure the court will see it that way.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,579]

makes me wonder if he has been using this exploit for years on the poker tables as well

[BufordT 371]

makes me wonder if he has been using this exploit for years on the poker tables as well

He had some girl with him that trained her eyes for years to see imperfections in the cards most human eyes can't see.....

 

From the article

 

"And that “zooming in” goes to the second point. The alleged “Queen of Sorts,” Ivey’s companion Cheung Yin Sun, trained her eyesight over a period of years to do this sort of zooming in, effectively seeing minor print variations too small for almost any other humans to notice."

 

The cards had to be stacked a certain way on the table in order to see the imperfections. Which the house gladly did. Ivey and his partner never touched the cards.

[hoytdwow 202]

Poker isn't a sport. HTH

[TommyGavin 788]

I thought it was becasue they looked alike

Don't they all

[Mike Honcho 4,023]

Poker isn't a sport. HTH

Ummmm, thanks.

[CantTouchThis 23]

makes me wonder if he has been using this exploit for years on the poker tables as well

 

Absolutely not, obviously. Have you seen the dude play poker? He has the most frightening stare down ever. Just impossible to read and absolutely fearless. I really don't think he's the most skilled poker player in the world. Don't get me wrong, he's up there, but what sets Ivey apart is his gigantic focking balls. And brains for that matter. Dude was broke, what, almost 20 years ago, and in 20 years he's probably profitted 3-500 MILLION playing poker and gambling(and also sponsors and what not). His listed net worth is $100MM, and most who know him say he is worth wayyyyyyyyy more than that.

 

Like I said, he can make that $9.6M back in a weekend. In a day. Probably in one hand in the super-ridiculously high stakes cash games he plays over seas.

[drobeski 3,061]

Poker isn't a sport. HTH

neither is sucking cack, but that doesn't stop you from participating daily

[TommyGavin 788]

neither is sucking cack, but that doesn't stop you from participating daily

Your mom begs to differ. Very sporty about the cack sucking she is.

And she begs for it. FYI.

[hoytdwow 202]

He has the most frightening stare down ever.