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Rivers, Rothlisberger, Eli

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Everyone knows that the Giants that year drafted Phillip Rivers after the Chargers said, "We are gonna go ahead and draft Eli #1, even though he said he wants to play for NY." and amongst the turmoil, the Steelers STOLE Big Ben.

 

Someone here called it. Said Rothlisberger was better than both of them.

 

What ever happened to "J-Load" Jared Lorenzen?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynMZkDKmhE0

 

Pre Wildcat ... guy had a lazer arm too. Hometown favorite. Rivers did not fit the Giants mold but .... Rothlisberger .... mighta been the better pick. Eli still has some time to prove he was worth that #1 pick by the San Diego Chargers.

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I don't know that Roethlisberger is better than Rivers. They have very different games and play for totally different teams. I think Big Ben is massively underrated as a QB but he's also benefitted greatly by playing for one of the best coached franchises in the game. It's hard to call one better than the other.

 

Eli Manning is really hard to figure out. I see a fair amount of Giants games and he can look like the best or the worst QB in the game, sometimes within the same game. The thing that's got to be really discouraging for Giants fans is the fact that he seems to be getting worse over time.

 

Also, Matt Schaub was drafted in the 3rd round of the same class - I hear he's pretty good.

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I don't know that Roethlisberger is better than Rivers. They have very different games and play for totally different teams. I think Big Ben is massively underrated as a QB but he's also benefitted greatly by playing for one of the best coached franchises in the game. It's hard to call one better than the other.

 

Eli Manning is really hard to figure out. I see a fair amount of Giants games and he can look like the best or the worst QB in the game, sometimes within the same game. The thing that's got to be really discouraging for Giants fans is the fact that he seems to be getting worse over time.

 

Also, Matt Schaub was drafted in the 3rd round of the same class - I hear he's pretty good.

 

It really didn't take long for an Eagle fan to take a shot at Eli. I think that you would have to rank the QBs so far like this: Big Ben, Eli, Rivers. I am not just doing it on SB wins, although that's the order that my ranking happens to fall. We'll put Big Ben alone for right now, because of 3 SB appearances and at least 2 SB wins. Eli and Rivers have had some comparable stats: yards, TDs, wins, etc. Eli has thrown some more INTs, especially this year. Remember though Eli plays in cold weather while Rivers does not. Eli also does have a ring which does separate him somewhat. Eli also has never had a losing season as a starter and I believe that Rivers has. Rivers has certainly had some disappointing years from a team standpoint with such high expectations going in. For me it boils down to this since they are so close: there is no way that Rivers would have won those three road playoff games to get to, and win, the Super Bowl in 2007.

 

As for Eli getting worse over time, I disagree. The last two years have been disappointing, I'll admit. But I think both years you can blame the defense. Eli played well enough in both years. In 2009, he threw for 4000 yards and certainly put up enough points to win more than 8 games and get to the playoffs, but that defense was pitiful, allowing 40 points 4 times and 430+ for the season. Last year, again you can blame the defense for allowing the Eagles to comeback and the subsequent Packer debacle squarely on the defense. Eli put up 31 points in the Eagle game and played a great game, if you want to get on him for the one drive in the 4th quarter when they needed a 1st down, so be it, but I think that is nit-picking. If the Giants win that Eagle game, they are most likely the 2 seed and it could have been a whole lot different outcome in the NFC.

 

As for Eli overall, he is 60-43 as a starter, threw for 4000 yards the last two years, never had a year under 23 TDs, and got to the playoffs 4 of 6 years as a starter. The INTs are disappointing, especially this year when they really became an issue. His WRS should take responsibility for some of them, but Eli does throw high at times over the middle, causing balls to be tipped by his WRs. Did I mention that never missed a start in 6 and a half years? He also is good with the media and a good guy in the community.

 

I am proud as a Giants fan to have Eli as my QB, and I hope he gets a couple more rings to silence the doubters once again.

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It really didn't take long for an Eagle fan to take a shot at Eli. I think that you would have to rank the QBs so far like this: Big Ben, Eli, Rivers. I am not just doing it on SB wins, although that's the order that my ranking happens to fall. We'll put Big Ben alone for right now, because of 3 SB appearances and at least 2 SB wins. Eli and Rivers have had some comparable stats: yards, TDs, wins, etc. Eli has thrown some more INTs, especially this year. Remember though Eli plays in cold weather while Rivers does not. Eli also does have a ring which does separate him somewhat. Eli also has never had a losing season as a starter and I believe that Rivers has. Rivers has certainly had some disappointing years from a team standpoint with such high expectations going in. For me it boils down to this since they are so close: there is no way that Rivers would have won those three road playoff games to get to, and win, the Super Bowl in 2007.

 

As for Eli getting worse over time, I disagree. The last two years have been disappointing, I'll admit. But I think both years you can blame the defense. Eli played well enough in both years. In 2009, he threw for 4000 yards and certainly put up enough points to win more than 8 games and get to the playoffs, but that defense was pitiful, allowing 40 points 4 times and 430+ for the season. Last year, again you can blame the defense for allowing the Eagles to comeback and the subsequent Packer debacle squarely on the defense. Eli put up 31 points in the Eagle game and played a great game, if you want to get on him for the one drive in the 4th quarter when they needed a 1st down, so be it, but I think that is nit-picking. If the Giants win that Eagle game, they are most likely the 2 seed and it could have been a whole lot different outcome in the NFC.

 

As for Eli overall, he is 60-43 as a starter, threw for 4000 yards the last two years, never had a year under 23 TDs, and got to the playoffs 4 of 6 years as a starter. The INTs are disappointing, especially this year when they really became an issue. His WRS should take responsibility for some of them, but Eli does throw high at times over the middle, causing balls to be tipped by his WRs. Did I mention that never missed a start in 6 and a half years? He also is good with the media and a good guy in the community.

 

I am proud as a Giants fan to have Eli as my QB, and I hope he gets a couple more rings to silence the doubters once again.

 

I didn't take a shot at Eli, I said he's not as good as Roethlisberger or Rivers, who are probably two of the Top 5 quarterbacks in the game. I'd guess that 90% of non-Giants fans agree with that assessment. Rivers is better in every statistical category:

 

Rivers: 84 starts, 97.2 QB rating, 63.7% completion, 136 TDs vs. 58 INTs.

 

Manning: 105 starts, 80.2 QB rating, 58% completion, 156 TDs vs. 113 INTs.

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I didn't take a shot at Eli, I said he's not as good as Roethlisberger or Rivers, who are probably two of the Top 5 quarterbacks in the game. I'd guess that 90% of non-Giants fans agree with that assessment. Rivers is better in every statistical category:

 

Rivers: 84 starts, 97.2 QB rating, 63.7% completion, 136 TDs vs. 58 INTs.

 

Manning: 105 starts, 80.2 QB rating, 58% completion, 156 TDs vs. 113 INTs.

 

You forgot one important stat: wins. Rating is garbage. What was big ben's rating in the Championship game this year? But anyone watching that game will know that Big Ben played way better than his rating would indicate. Also, Eli plays in cold weather, of course his stats are not going to be as good.

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You forgot one important stat: wins. Rating is garbage. What was big ben's rating in the Championship game this year? But anyone watching that game will know that Big Ben played way better than his rating would indicate. Also, Eli plays in cold weather, of course his stats are not going to be as good.

 

QB is the most important position on the field but rating a quarterback purely on wins is ridiculous.

 

If you put Rivers on the Giants with the running game, receiving weapons and defense they'd had pretty consistently since '04, I'm guessing his record would be as good if not better than Manning's.

 

We'll never know for sure, so all we have to go on is the numbers ... and Rivers are far better.

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QB is the most important position on the field but rating a quarterback purely on wins is ridiculous.

 

If you put Rivers on the Giants with the running game, receiving weapons and defense they'd had pretty consistently since '04, I'm guessing his record would be as good if not better than Manning's.

 

We'll never know for sure, so all we have to go on is the numbers ... and Rivers are far better.

 

Rivers numbers are not "far better". They are comparable when you take into account that he plays in the friendly confines of San Diego. He also plays in a cream puff division (only this year getting somewhat better). He also has the best TE in the league, the best RB in the league for a few years (LT), Vincent Jackson, and QB numbers inflator himself Darren Sproles, who has taken an untold amount of 80 yard pass plays to the house for Rivers. I think that the SD Defense with Cromartie and Merriman are pretty good too.

 

Eli does have a ring which Rivers does not. I'll say it again, there is now way that Rivers wins those 3 road playoff games in 2007 to get to, and win, a SB.

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Just to chime in: I can't really gather much of an argument to put in Eli's corner.

 

Were you really arguing that Eli has a better record than Philip Rivers??

 

Rivers is 55-25 (69%) since becoming a starter.

Eli is 60-43 (58%) since becoming a starter.

 

Rivers has nearly every statistical edge of Eli as well. Sure, you could argue he hasn't had to play in cold weather, but that's a little nit-picky. I see you failed to mention that he's had to play countless games in "RAINY" San Diego. I know there are surrounding factors that can account for small differences in stats (such as weather, weapons, philosphy, situations, etc.) - but if you're going to compare QB's - stats are going to be a major part of that formula, and rightfully so.

 

And no surrounding factors can account for the major gap in stats between Rivers and Eli:

Rivers: 63.7 completion %, 3,900 yards per season, 27 TD's, 11 INT's, and a 97 QB rating (average season).

Even after throwing out Eli's rookie season,

Eli: 59 completion %, 3,600 yards per season, 25 TD's, 17 INT's, and a 81.5 QB rating (average season).

 

I know he has a SuperBowl ring, and that definitely should count for something. He played extremely well during that post-season, and who knows if Rivers, or even Peyton Manning could have won that SuperBowl. But a SuperBowl ring is also a team accomplishment - so while it holds some merit, I'm not willing to forgive individual performance over the course of a career; based on a 4-game stretch in which the entire New York Giants team played extremely well.

 

If you want to rank these 3 QB's based on their individual success, it'd be Rivers & Roethlisberger 1a. and 1b., and Eli Manning 3rd. Don't get me wrong, I think Eli is a franchise QB, it's not like the Giants should think about replacing him. But Rivers & Big Ben are well on their way to the Hall of Fame, they don't lose out to too many QB's around the league...

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Rivers numbers are not "far better". They are comparable when you take into account that he plays in the friendly confines of San Diego. He also plays in a cream puff division (only this year getting somewhat better). He also has the best TE in the league, the best RB in the league for a few years (LT), Vincent Jackson, and QB numbers inflator himself Darren Sproles, who has taken an untold amount of 80 yard pass plays to the house for Rivers. I think that the SD Defense with Cromartie and Merriman are pretty good too.

 

Eli does have a ring which Rivers does not. I'll say it again, there is now way that Rivers wins those 3 road playoff games in 2007 to get to, and win, a SB.

 

The poster above pretty much said everything I was going to say. Rivers has the statistical edge in every single category. The only thing Manning has done that Rivers hasn't is won a championship. And like the aforementioned poster said, Manning had a terrific run but there's no telling whether Rivers could've done the same thing on the same team, and apart from a few clutch plays on offense the Giants' win over the Pats was all about their pass rush stiffling a historically good O. For all we know Rivers would've won that Super Bowl and another one if situations were changed.

 

The bottom line is that Rivers stats are superior in every category over Eli's and nobody outside of the New York metro area thinks that Manning is the better of the two. Eli is a Top 10 QB but Rivers is Top 3-5 at least, up there with Peyton, Brees, Brady and Roethlisberger. Nobody would put Eli Manning in that company.

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Just to chime in: I can't really gather much of an argument to put in Eli's corner.

 

Were you really arguing that Eli has a better record than Philip Rivers??

 

Rivers is 55-25 (69%) since becoming a starter.

Eli is 60-43 (58%) since becoming a starter.

 

Rivers has nearly every statistical edge of Eli as well. Sure, you could argue he hasn't had to play in cold weather, but that's a little nit-picky. I see you failed to mention that he's had to play countless games in "RAINY" San Diego. I know there are surrounding factors that can account for small differences in stats (such as weather, weapons, philosphy, situations, etc.) - but if you're going to compare QB's - stats are going to be a major part of that formula, and rightfully so.

 

And no surrounding factors can account for the major gap in stats between Rivers and Eli:

Rivers: 63.7 completion %, 3,900 yards per season, 27 TD's, 11 INT's, and a 97 QB rating (average season).

Even after throwing out Eli's rookie season,

Eli: 59 completion %, 3,600 yards per season, 25 TD's, 17 INT's, and a 81.5 QB rating (average season).

 

I know he has a SuperBowl ring, and that definitely should count for something. He played extremely well during that post-season, and who knows if Rivers, or even Peyton Manning could have won that SuperBowl. But a SuperBowl ring is also a team accomplishment - so while it holds some merit, I'm not willing to forgive individual performance over the course of a career; based on a 4-game stretch in which the entire New York Giants team played extremely well.

 

If you want to rank these 3 QB's based on their individual success, it'd be Rivers & Roethlisberger 1a. and 1b., and Eli Manning 3rd. Don't get me wrong, I think Eli is a franchise QB, it's not like the Giants should think about replacing him. But Rivers & Big Ben are well on their way to the Hall of Fame, they don't lose out to too many QB's around the league...

 

I am not saying that Eli has better numbers or more wins than Rivers. I am just saying that they are comparable, especially when you take into account that Eli plays in cold weather and the highly competitive NFC East and Rivers plays in San Diego (since when is it rainy? and it is never windy like the Meadowlands), for a pass first team, and the lackluster AFC west. He also has won a SB, is good with the media, and is great off the field. He does not get into shouting matches with opposing QBs or is a hot head.

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Eli is a DISTANT 3rd of those 3. Take notice of how typed "distant" in all caps. That was for emphasis.

 

Ben and Rivers are somewhere in that 3-6 range of QB. Eli is somewhere in the 9-13 range.

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Not even close to the best QB class ever.

 

83 draft

 

1st round

 

John Elway 1st

Todd Blackledge 7th

Jim Kelly 14th

Tony Eason 15th

Ken O'Brien 24th

Dan Marino 27th

 

 

All taken by AFC teams... in 11 of the next 16 years one of these quarterbacks started in the superbowl for their team.

 

Elway 5 times (2 wins)

Kelly 4 times

Marino 1 time

Eason 1 time

 

3 Hall of Famers with Elway, Kelly, and Marino.

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Not even close to the best QB class ever.

 

83 draft

 

1st round

 

John Elway 1st

Todd Blackledge 7th

Jim Kelly 14th

Tony Eason 15th

Ken O'Brien 24th

Dan Marino 27th

 

 

All taken by AFC teams... in 11 of the next 16 years one of these quarterbacks started in the superbowl for their team.

 

Elway 5 times (2 wins)

Kelly 4 times

Marino 1 time

Eason 1 time

 

3 Hall of Famers with Elway, Kelly, and Marino.

 

I was waiting for someone else to write this. Marino and Elway were both better than any of the class of 2002. Kelly was definitely better than Eli and you could argue he was better than Big Ben and Rivers.

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I am not saying that Eli has better numbers or more wins than Rivers. I am just saying that they are comparable, especially when you take into account that Eli plays in cold weather and the highly competitive NFC East and Rivers plays in San Diego (since when is it rainy? and it is never windy like the Meadowlands), for a pass first team, and the lackluster AFC west. He also has won a SB, is good with the media, and is great off the field. He does not get into shouting matches with opposing QBs or is a hot head.

Well Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf's stats are technically comparable - doesn't mean they are close.

 

Rivers' winning percentage is 10% higher. His QB rating is nearly 20 points higher. He turns the ball over significantly less than Manning, throws a noticeable amount more yards & TD's than Manning. How are the stats close? Cold weather doesn't make THAT much of a difference. And I bring up the rain because I can think of a lot of memorable games in San Diego that have been played in rainy/muddy conditions...Kinda just showing you how lame it can be to bring up 'weather factors' when comparing 2 QB's. Manning probably plays an extra 2 games a season in cold weather. Rivers probably plays an extra game or two in the rain.

 

And I do agree with you - Manning definitely matured at an earlier stage in his career than Rivers did. I've voiced my opinions on how I thought Rivers was immature coming into this league, but he seems just fine now.

 

Also - "being good with the media" does not make you a good QB - just ask Tim Tebow (for the record, I think Tebow will be successful, just thought he applied for that joke).

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I am not saying that Eli has better numbers or more wins than Rivers. I am just saying that they are comparable, especially when you take into account that Eli plays in cold weather and the highly competitive NFC East and Rivers plays in San Diego (since when is it rainy? and it is never windy like the Meadowlands), for a pass first team, and the lackluster AFC west. He also has won a SB, is good with the media, and is great off the field. He does not get into shouting matches with opposing QBs or is a hot head.

 

San Diego has usually finished 1st in the west meaning they get to play New England, Indy and Pittsburgh almost every year. Dallas and Philly have been good over the past few years but not powerhouses. Washington pretty much sux every year.

 

Rivers is head and shoulders over Eli at this stage of their careers. I would even say Eli has regressed.

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2001 - Vick and Brees was a better class than the trio from '04, in my opinion. Same with '05 - Aaron Rodgers just by himself.

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I was waiting for someone else to write this. Marino and Elway were both better than any of the class of 2002. Kelly was definitely better than Eli and you could argue he was better than Big Ben and Rivers.

 

This. But counting Schaub, 2002 was still pretty damn good.

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You can't compare that class to the Elway class, but the idea that Eli is even close to the QB that Rivers is simply baffles me. And I say this as a guy with no dog in the fight.

 

DVOA Rank:

2010: Rivers 3rd, Manning 20th

2009: Rivers 1st, Manning 11th

2008: Rivers 2nd, Manning 9th

2007: Rivers 20th, Manning 35th (yes, 35th out of 32 teams)

2006: Rivers 7th, Manning 16th

Rivers doesn't throw the minimum number of passes in 2005, but Manning's DVOA was 17th this year.

 

No other QB has been in the top 3 DVOA for the last 3 years. Rivers is very very good. Now admittedly, this was not a good year for Manning, but here is a selection of QBs with a better DVOA from the 2010 season:

Shaun Hill

Seneca Wallace

Drew Stanton

Carson Palmer

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You can't compare that class to the Elway class, but the idea that Eli is even close to the QB that Rivers is simply baffles me. And I say this as a guy with no dog in the fight.

 

DVOA Rank:

2010: Rivers 3rd, Manning 20th

2009: Rivers 1st, Manning 11th

2008: Rivers 2nd, Manning 9th

2007: Rivers 20th, Manning 35th (yes, 35th out of 32 teams)

2006: Rivers 7th, Manning 16th

Rivers doesn't throw the minimum number of passes in 2005, but Manning's DVOA was 17th this year.

 

No other QB has been in the top 3 DVOA for the last 3 years. Rivers is very very good. Now admittedly, this was not a good year for Manning, but here is a selection of QBs with a better DVOA from the 2010 season:

Shaun Hill

Seneca Wallace

Drew Stanton

Carson Palmer

 

I agree completely. MDC was pretty dead on with how Lil' Manning can look great some games, and horrible others....and sometimes goes back in forth in the same game. People over value the ring, and while he came up clutch on their last drive, that victory belonged mostly with the defensive line.

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I agree completely. MDC was pretty dead on with how Lil' Manning can look great some games, and horrible others....and sometimes goes back in forth in the same game. People over value the ring, and while he came up clutch on their last drive, that victory belonged mostly with the defensive line.

 

Yes, the defense was more of a reason why they won that one game, but Manning was the MVP and is only one of three SB QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th qurter.

 

If you look at that season though, he was clutch throughout. The Redskin game when they were down 14-0 at half, the Bears game where they were down 16-7 midway through the 4th quarter, and a hard fought 16-13 win vs. the Eagles. All these games were on the road.

 

Then in the playoffs, again all on the road, at Tampa he was very good, in Dallas, good again, that TD drive before the half vs. the Cowboys with a minute on the clock was a thing of beauty. Then at Green Bay in the 3rd coldest game in NFL history, he was great. Burress dropped a perfectly thrown bomb or his stats would have even been better. Plus how many times did he drive them for the game winning field goal before Tynes actually made it?

 

I am a Giants and Eli fan so I am probably biased, but for me, I put him slightly ahead of Rivers. Both are winning QBs, who put up some very nice stats and had some success in the playoffs, but Eli does have a ring. He also plays in a more complex offensive scheme where he has more pre-snap reads and has to be in tune with his WRs. The Giants offense is predicated on reading coverages, with QB and WR making adjustments based on coverages. Some of Rivers higher stats is again based on playing in San Diego and the countless long screen passes to Tomlinson, and now Sproles.

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I am a Giants and Eli fan so I am probably biased,

 

 

 

 

 

and you are completely wrong. No offense but your homerism is the only reason that you are still claiming that Eli is better than Rivers againt all of the stats and evidence that has been produced.

 

Love the passion and don't blame you one bit for believing how you do... but you are on a lonely island with that belief.

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I am a Giants and Eli fan so I am probably biased

 

I never would've guessed. :cheers:

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Yes, the defense was more of a reason why they won that one game, but Manning was the MVP and is only one of three SB QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th qurter.

 

If you look at that season though, he was clutch throughout. The Redskin game when they were down 14-0 at half, the Bears game where they were down 16-7 midway through the 4th quarter, and a hard fought 16-13 win vs. the Eagles. All these games were on the road.

 

Then in the playoffs, again all on the road, at Tampa he was very good, in Dallas, good again, that TD drive before the half vs. the Cowboys with a minute on the clock was a thing of beauty. Then at Green Bay in the 3rd coldest game in NFL history, he was great. Burress dropped a perfectly thrown bomb or his stats would have even been better. Plus how many times did he drive them for the game winning field goal before Tynes actually made it?

 

I am a Giants and Eli fan so I am probably biased, but for me, I put him slightly ahead of Rivers. Both are winning QBs, who put up some very nice stats and had some success in the playoffs, but Eli does have a ring. He also plays in a more complex offensive scheme where he has more pre-snap reads and has to be in tune with his WRs. The Giants offense is predicated on reading coverages, with QB and WR making adjustments based on coverages. Some of Rivers higher stats is again based on playing in San Diego and the countless long screen passes to Tomlinson, and now Sproles.

 

If his skill at reading coverages is what separates him from Rivers, how'd he end up leading the league in interceptions (despite only being 8th in passing attempts) this year?

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If his skill at reading coverages is what separates him from Rivers, how'd he end up leading the league in interceptions (despite only being 8th in passing attempts) this year?

 

Can't you read? Eli plays in worse weather sometimes.

 

Sheesh

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I hear Marino , Elway , and Kelly were kind of good. I honestly don't see any of those QB's better than any of the ones I just listed.

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I'll say it again, there is now way that Rivers wins those 3 road playoff games in 2007 to get to, and win, a SB.

 

any sane observer of the game of football is quite aware that the 3 road playoff wins were a direct result of coughlin's switch to a kamikaze defensive scheme. eli completed 12 whole passes against the cowboys, and 52% against GB.

 

it's not incredibly difficult to win when your defense gives up 17PPG and gives up 63 RuYD in the wild card and 28 RuYD in the conference championship.

 

so let's take off our revisionist history glasses, shall we?

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I thought this was difficult before I started to think about trade scenarios... and if I were the Giants and the Chargers offered me Rivers for Eli straight up, I would snap-call. I wouldn't even think about it.

 

So I guess I would rank them

 

1. Big B

2. Rivers

3. Eli

 

Also, I don't see how weather plays such a huge deal in this argument. Yes, I understand SD has amazing weather compared to NY but these are NFL QBs guys. They'll perform well (if they are good) anywhere. So are you guys dismissing the likes of Favre because he played in GB? I mean, there's a guy on this list that plays in horrible weather himself (Big Ben).

 

If weather is such an issue, does that mean Jim Kelly is better than Dan Marino cause he played in Buffalo and Marino played in Miami, even though Marino has better stats?

 

Does it downgrade Peyton or Brees every so slightly in your comparisons with bad weather QBs cause they play in domes? I just don't get it.

 

Also, they do have something called "road games" (I know, crazy!) in the NFL where good weather QBs have to play in bad weather, and vice versa! WOW! ;)

 

If you guys really want to bring weather into this convo then I'm sure there is some website that will show Eli's "good weather" stats and River's "bad weather" stats so you bias homers can come up with a real conclusion :lol:

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I thought this was difficult before I started to think about trade scenarios... and if I were the Giants and the Chargers offered me Rivers for Eli straight up, I would snap-call. I wouldn't even think about it.

 

So I guess I would rank them

 

1. Big B

2. Rivers

3. Eli

 

Also, I don't see how weather plays such a huge deal in this argument. Yes, I understand SD has amazing weather compared to NY but these are NFL QBs guys. They'll perform well (if they are good) anywhere. So are you guys dismissing the likes of Favre because he played in GB? I mean, there's a guy on this list that plays in horrible weather himself (Big Ben).

 

If weather is such an issue, does that mean Jim Kelly is better than Dan Marino cause he played in Buffalo and Marino played in Miami, even though Marino has better stats?

 

Does it downgrade Peyton or Brees every so slightly in your comparisons with bad weather QBs cause they play in domes? I just don't get it.

 

Also, they do have something called "road games" (I know, crazy!) in the NFL where good weather QBs have to play in bad weather, and vice versa! WOW! ;)

 

If you guys really want to bring weather into this convo then I'm sure there is some website that will show Eli's "good weather" stats and River's "bad weather" stats so you bias homers can come up with a real conclusion :lol:

 

Like I said for me, I would put Eli slightly ahead of Rivers. Some of it is based on the ring like I said before. Both are winning QBs who you can obviously win a championship with and they can carry a team. Eli has had some dowqn games since the SB, no doubt but the defense - especially in those Eagle and Packer games let them down this year. If the defense made one stop in the Eagle game, we are probably looking at a 2 seed and a playoff run.

 

For me, I would take Eli every day over Rivers and twice on Sunday. Call me crazy, but you will see after their careers are up. With the way Eli takes every snap - it might be a while before he hangs it up. I think Rivers will get a championship too. I will put the over / under of championships for Eli at 3, and I'll take the over.

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I will put the over / under of championships for Eli at 3, and I'll take the over.

 

So you have Eli at least tied for winning the most Super Bowls in NFL history.

 

Cool. :thumbsup:

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Eli is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY overrated... If he wasn't gifted his SB win, guy isn't even in the conversation... He is a career BARELY over 1:1 TD/INT ratio, that alone should tell you alot... He is protected by an outstanding HC, and a pretty good D... His excuse is that he plays in one of the tougher conferences in the NFL over this period of evaluation.

 

Although at some point the cowboys need to be declared overrated in their perennial declaration of 'one of the top teams' but having ABSOLUTELY nothing to show for it.

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83 draft

3 Hall of Famers with Elway, Kelly, and Marino.

 

stopped by to see if someone mentioned this.

lambert wins this thread. :thumbsup:

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stopped by to see if someone mentioned this.

lambert wins this thread. :thumbsup:

 

How do we know that Big Ben, Rivers, and Eli won't make it there also? We won't know for another 10-15 years. They already have 3 rings combined, which is more than the '83 trio.

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How do we know that Big Ben, Rivers, and Eli won't make it there also? We won't know for another 10-15 years. They already have 3 rings combined, which is more than the '83 trio.

 

And you have Eli getting to at least Montana/Bradshaw's record of 4 rings. So that's 6 rings even if Ben or Rivers never win another. :thumbsup:

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I will put the over / under of championships for Eli at 3, and I'll take the over.

 

:lol:

 

I thought you were the biggest homer on earth before, now I know you're fishing.

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How do we know that Big Ben, Rivers, and Eli won't make it there also? We won't know for another 10-15 years. They already have 3 rings combined, which is more than the '83 trio.

 

None of these guys are close to Marino or Elway, and Kelly is above them too. The older guys played in an era where defenders could, you know, play defense. Getting touched in the vicinity of your helmet wasn't cause for a drive killing yellow flag and the Polian b!tch WR rules weren't in effect.

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Long day at work and it's nice to be able to re-read predictions about Eli winning 4 rings to bring a little levity to my life. Thanks.

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:lol:

 

I thought you were the biggest homer on earth before, now I know you're fishing.

 

That's two for Eli and he is only 31 years old. So FOCK YOU and your Eli bashing, no Super Bowl Trophy, pathetic Eagle fan base.

 

Eli is 8-3 in the playoffs, won 5 road playoff games, has two Super Bowl Wins and two Super Bowl MVPs.

 

I'll ask the question again to the masses, would you rather have Rivers or Eli?

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