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Death Penalty?


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#41 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:43 AM

It may be a reach, but I have personally experienced a life altering event that put me squarely in the crosshairs of Justice... I've detailed it here before - long story short, I was a frog's ass hair away from being indicted and charged for the Capital Murder of my best friend (1991).. I was as far removed from the events that happened that night and couldn't be more innocent if God dropped down and told them himself - but it didn't matter... The Detectives and Tarrant County DA needed to clear a case, and I was going to be there man.
 
Entirely circumstantial, I was this close to being wrongly accused, and possibly convicted - I could have very easily ended up being one of those "drop in the bucket" statistics.
 
BTW - they eventually caught and convicted those 2 guys - they are both doing 40 years to life.


So it is personal for you And I would say you do have a unique perspective on the situation.

That being said, I'm curious if you think Justice was served by handing the 40 year sentences out to those guys or should they have been given the death penalty? They not only took your friend's life but also almost cost you your life as well.

BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#42 edjr

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:53 AM

For all gay men?


posty


#43 NorthernVike

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:55 AM

For all gay men?

Nah, we'd let you live.  :wub:


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You guys have no focking clue what happened so you really should just shut it..

 


#44 edjr

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:57 AM

Nah, we'd let you live.  :wub:

 

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posty


#45 Cruzer

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:59 AM

So it is personal for you And I would say you do have a unique perspective on the situation.

That being said, I'm curious if you think Justice was served by handing the 40 year sentences out to those guys or should they have been given the death penalty? They not only took your friend's life but also almost cost you your life as well.

This was one of those clear cut, irrefutable convictions - so yes, I wanted them dead.  
 
Even though I testified in the trial, I was never clear on the actual events of what happened... After several years I finally mustered up the courage to write them - to my surprise, they responded. Not only did they write back, but they both detailed what happened and how it went down, both with matching stories.... After the shooting, and before they were caught, the  accomplice went on to serve in the Marines, was honorably discharged.. He has expressed his full regret and has apologized time after time.. He fully understands why he is where he is and makes no excuses for it. He truly seems to have reformed and turned his life around - I could easily spare his life now........ The shooter? He's still in denial, still a piece of shiit - he, I'd personally love to still stick a needle in his ass.

#46 LOD01

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:16 AM

You'd feel different too if one of the murderers escaped and raped then killed a loved one of yours.

Problem with the anti-death penalty crowd is they don't want ANY of them killed. Also, they want more lenient sentencing as well for those not given the death penalty.

Their weak argument is 'what if they really were innocent'. A properly administered death penalty would not execute an innocent man. This cop killer. He's obviously guilty. Anyone who shoots someone in front of others is obviously guilty. Example: TJ Lane is 100% guilty. We start with them and clean house. That saves us money. If you got a long rap sheet, and it's not 100%, you die too. The others can rot in prison but we need to provide them a noose and some drugs that kill instantly so they can opt out either way they like.

We should run thru the required appeals process in an hour max. Once the 1st appeal is denied, the others are a simply 'no', 'no and 'no', you die mother dude.


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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

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#47 edjr

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:45 AM

SMU 80s?


posty


#48 vuduchile

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:22 PM

It may be a reach, but I have personally experienced a life altering event that put me squarely in the crosshairs of Justice... I've detailed it here before - long story short, I was a frog's ass hair away from being indicted and charged for the Capital Murder of my best friend (1991).. I was as far removed from the events that happened that night and couldn't be more innocent if God dropped down and told them himself - but it didn't matter... The Detectives and Tarrant County DA needed to clear a case, and I was going to be there man.
 
Entirely circumstantial, I was this close to being wrongly accused, and possibly convicted - I could have very easily ended up being one of those "drop in the bucket" statistics.
 
BTW - they eventually caught and convicted those 2 guys - they are both doing 40 years to life.


You were definitely guilty of something.

#49 jerryskids

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:33 PM

As I've gotten older I've moved from slightly for it to slightly against it.  I'm also anti-abortion so there is a consistency there.

 

That being said, that Innocence Project is interesting, but I wonder how the statistics are over time?  Decades ago some backwoods places would just convict the convenient spook (or spic, in Cruzer's case).  I'd like to think that doesn't happen much any more.

 

That being said, to Vudu's point, I'm not thrilled with the idea of our government being sanctioned to kill its citizens, outside of treason/war.

 

Honestly, if we could know with 100% surety, I'm inclined to leave it to the victim's family to decide what closure they prefer.


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#50 Strike

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:37 PM

As I've gotten older I've moved from slightly for it to slightly against it.  I'm also anti-abortion so there is a consistency there.

 

That being said, that Innocence Project is interesting, but I wonder how the statistics are over time?  Decades ago some backwoods places would just convict the convenient spook (or spic, in Cruzer's case).  I'd like to think that doesn't happen much any more.

 

That being said, to Vudu's point, I'm not thrilled with the idea of our government being sanctioned to kill its citizens, outside of treason/war.

 

Honestly, if we could know with 100% surety, I'm inclined to leave it to the victim's family to decide what closure they prefer.

 

1)  We aren't sanctioning the government to kill it's citizens.  This is enforcement of a law.  We have given the government the authority to carry out a punishment that we the people have decided is appropriate for certain crimes.  We let the government incarcerate people for the rest of their lives for the same reason.

 

2)  When the family is the reason for the sentence it becomes about vengeance.  By having a jury decide without bias that death is the appropriate punishment it is about punishment for a wrongdoing.


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#51 Cruzer

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:51 PM

You were definitely guilty of something.

Not a single thing.. I didn't know the shooters, random robbery at a store. I pulled up on the scene, I had blood on me from rolling him over.



#52 GobbleDog

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:07 PM

There are many problems with the death penalty, aside from killing a few innocent people along the way. It costs states a lot more than life in prison. Wanna make it cheaper - Eliminate the appeal process, but then you'll end up killing more innocents.

Then there's the issue of killing somebody's family member. Everyone rightfully feels terrible for the victims family, but the murderer has family too. They didn't do anything wrong, but will suffer just the same.

The law says we don't execute mentally ill, but there's varying degrees of mental illness. It's extremely arbitrary to pick and chose who qualifies and who doesn't.

There's also the issue of the first to turn states evidence gets life, while the other gets death, for the same crime. That's a dramatic difference just based on who the prosecutor gets to roll over first. Even if the second one is willing to roll, he's screwed.

Then there's the issue of people going insane waiting to be executed. That's cruel and unusual in itself.

State-sanctioned executing of citizens... that's the kind of sh*t countries like China, Iran and North Korea do. Not civilized countries. Except the US.

20+ years after the crime, the condemned are often completely different people. You aren't killing a young stupid murderer, but an older man some of which are reformed. I heard a warden interviewed who said this was a huge issue for him. "Letting out dangerous ex-cons who's sentences are up, and then having to execute some men you'd trust to babysit your kid."

There's other problems, but those reasons enough. As for being a deterrent, it ain't. Nobody in history has ever said "I'd commit murder if the sentence was only life in prison, but that death penalty is just too much." Which is why not surpringly there's no correlation in murder rates between states with death penalty and those without.

The one benefit of the death penalty - compensation to victim and victim families. If you can call it compensation. But the problems that go along with it are just too much.

I will say there are extremely rare cases where the death penalty might be appropriate... cases involving terrorist leaders and spies, where even in prison for life, the person poses a real threat to national security. Osama Bin Laden for example.

#53 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:09 PM

Not a single thing.. I didn't know the shooters, random robbery at a store. I pulled up on the scene, I had blood on me from rolling him over.


Did they think it was a gay lover thing between you and him?

#54 LOD01

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:10 PM

There are many problems with the death penalty, aside from killing a few innocent people along the way. It costs states a lot more than life in prison. Wanna make it cheaper - Eliminate the appeal process, but then you'll end up killing more innocents.

Then there's the issue of killing somebody's family member. Everyone rightfully feels terrible for the victims family, but the murderer has family too. They didn't do anything wrong, but will suffer just the same.

The law says we don't execute mentally ill, but there's varying degrees of mental illness. It's extremely arbitrary to pick and chose who qualifies and who doesn't.

There's also the issue of the first to turn states evidence gets life, while the other gets death, for the same crime. That's a dramatic difference just based on who the prosecutor gets to roll over first. Even if the second one is willing to roll, he's screwed.

Then there's the issue of people going insane waiting to be executed. That's cruel and unusual in itself.

State-sanctioned executing of citizens... that's the kind of sh*t countries like China, Iran and North Korea do. Not civilized countries. Except the US.

20+ years after the crime, the condemned are often completely different people. You aren't killing a young stupid murderer, but an older man some of which are reformed. I heard a warden interviewed who said this was a huge issue for him. "Letting out dangerous ex-cons who's sentences are up, and then having to execute some men you'd trust to babysit your kid."

There's other problems, but those reasons enough. As for being a deterrent, it ain't. Nobody in history has ever said "I'd commit murder if the sentence was only life in prison, but that death penalty is just too much." Which is why not surpringly there's no correlation in murder rates between states with death penalty and those without.

The one benefit of the death penalty - compensation to victim and victim families. If you can call it compensation. But the problems that go along with it are just too much.

I will say there are extremely rare cases where the death penalty might be appropriate... cases involving terrorist leaders and spies, where even in prison for life, the person poses a real threat to national security. Osama Bin Laden for example.

Let me run it and I won't kill a single innocent person. I'll clean things up in about a week.


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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.

 

 

 

 


#55 Cruzer

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:16 PM

Did they think it was a gay lover thing between you and him?

Part time job while I was going to school, he I both worked there... Night of shooting, I was going back for a late night run, before he closed - it went down just before I pulled up. 

 

They had nothing, no eye witness, no video, no fingerprints, no trace - nothing...... The DA's theory was that it was an inside job - they had me at the scene at the time of the shooting, they had blood on my person... The SOB's didn't even take the money bag, they left it behind during the struggle - had all of $170 in it.

 

D- on the effort.



#56 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:19 PM

Part time job while I was going to school, he I both worked there... Night of shooting, I was going back for a late night run, before he closed - it went down just before I pulled up. 
 
They had nothing, no eye witness, no video, no fingerprints, no trace - nothing...... The DA's theory was that it was an inside job - they had me at the scene at the time of the shooting, they had blood on my person... The SOB's didn't even take the money bag, they left it behind during the struggle - had all of $170 in it.
 
D- on the effort.


They had to have a theory, I was just wondering.

#57 tanatastic

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:22 PM

Death row is silly. There needs to be a same day firing squad tier of sentencing. Save untold millions of dollars and provide many families peace of mind or sense of justice.

#58 Cruzer

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:49 PM

They had to have a theory, I was just wondering.

Interesting ending though.

 

After putting me thru the ringer and a lot of ugliness - we told them we would no longer cooperate nor answer any more questions... For 5 years I lived in fear of somebody knocking on my door, showing up at my work - ready to take me away in cuffs. I just assumed that day was coming as they built their case............... Then one day, out of the blue - the DA called and asked if I would come down one more time.. I (basically) told him to go Fock himself - to call my lawyer. He said this time was different, that I was no longer under suspicion - that they had caught the guys who did it, they needed my help............. The story goes - a woman called the Ft. Worth PD, told them she was in Kansas - said if they helped her get her kids back from her estranged husband, she'd tell them about a murder that took place several years earlier... They flew up to meet her, helped her with her predicament - she spilled the beans.... Her husband, his brother and her were into drugs - they needed a score and they needed money. They had cased the store for a few days - planned to rob it, then head straight to Kansas........... (according to her) Things went wrong, they shot him point blank in a struggle, they got away with only some smokes - had been living in Kansas ever since (cept the bother, he joined the Marines)... The accomplice finally rolled and they recovered the shotgun - that's was the eventual nail in the coffin.



#59 nzoner

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:10 PM

Interesting ending though.

 

After putting me thru the ringer and a lot of ugliness - we told them we would no longer cooperate nor answer any more questions... For 5 years I lived in fear of somebody knocking on my door, showing up at my work - ready to take me away in cuffs. I just assumed that day was coming as they built their case............... Then one day, out of the blue - the DA called and asked if I would come down one more time.. I (basically) told him to go Fock himself - to call my lawyer. He said this time was different, that I was no longer under suspicion - that they had caught the guys who did it, they needed my help............. The story goes - a woman called the Ft. Worth PD, told them she was in Kansas - said if they helped her get her kids back from her estranged husband, she'd tell them about a murder that took place several years earlier... They flew up to meet her, helped her with her predicament - she spilled the beans.... Her husband, his brother and her were into drugs - they needed a score and they needed money. They had cased the store for a few days - planned to rob it, then head straight to Kansas........... (according to her) Things went wrong, they shot him point blank in a struggle, they got away with only some smokes - had been living in Kansas ever since (cept the bother, he joined the Marines)... The accomplice finally rolled and they recovered the shotgun - that's was the eventual nail in the coffin.

Wow,I was a suspect once for burning down my home and a business that I managed and that was stressful enough,can't even imagine an ordeal like that.


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#60 iam90sbaby

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:17 PM

Im against the death penalty 100%. Government shouldnt kill people unless of course its due to war. They should set an example.

#61 LOD01

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:19 PM

Im against the death penalty 100%. Government shouldnt kill people unless of course its due to war. They should set an example.

The 'example' ain't working in case you haven't figured that out.


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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.

 

 

 

 


#62 tanatastic

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:26 PM

The example they need to set that will have any effect is the drastic one, not the no killing one. They need to show that death row inmates get executed within a month, not a decade.

#63 Fireballer

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:40 PM

This is about as close to convinced that Ive been that an innocent man was executed. Arson is so damn hard to prove without a confession, and alot of investgators believed in what is now junk science. The guys that Ive learned the trade from taught me to rely on a actual fire dynamics and not old wives tales. Id love to read the actual fire marshal's reports to see what exactly they based conclusions on.



#64 BufordT

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:28 PM

I think breaking both arms and both legs with a baseball bat as a punishment would make prospective murderers think twice about murdering than any punishment that is currently in place.

 

Physical pain as a punishment would lower all crime rates drastically in this country.



#65 Cdub100

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:34 PM

We need more people put to death and for lesser crimes.


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#66 NorthernVike

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:57 PM

I think breaking both arms and both legs with a baseball bat as a punishment would make prospective murderers think twice about murdering than any punishment that is currently in place.
 
Physical pain as a punishment would lower all crime rates drastically in this country.


First we stab them, then we shoot them. :thumbsup:

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You guys have no focking clue what happened so you really should just shut it..

 


#67 LOD01

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:11 PM

We need more people put to death and for lesser crimes.

I'm good with that but it has to be a real 3 strikes and you are out. Therefore you get a chance to turn yourself around and there is no chance you are innocent. You've already been convicted twice, you're a loser and strike 3 means you are out.


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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.

 

 

 

 


#68 LOD01

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:12 PM

This is about as close to convinced that Ive been that an innocent man was executed. Arson is so damn hard to prove without a confession, and alot of investgators believed in what is now junk science. The guys that Ive learned the trade from taught me to rely on a actual fire dynamics and not old wives tales. Id love to read the actual fire marshal's reports to see what exactly they based conclusions on.

 

That loser was far from innocent. What kind of pile of ###### gets out of the house with no burns and lets his kids die?  He deserved to die just for that.


FBG is a shithole.

 

Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.

 

 

 

 


#69 Sho Nuff

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:26 PM

Death penalty?

http://www.bbc.co.uk...source=facebook

#70 Filthy Fernadez

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:36 AM

http://www.foxnews.c...y-at-court.html

 

 

For those that oppose the Death Penalty. You support this animal (Donald Smith) living?


BBC for the most part is pretty damn good.


#71 Bert

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:44 AM

This is kind of where I'm at too.

 

And to be clear, my (sometimes) hesitation has nothing to do with self righteous, moralistic values - it has to do with proof positive evidence. I'm all for frying the truly guilty bastards - if they suffer, too bad..... But there are so many innocent people sitting in jail, wrongly convicted for crimes they did not commit... Groups such as the Innocence Project have proven time and time again that the system is just not  fail-safe enuff to be trusted... According to the latest #'s, the Innocence Project has exonerated and freed 351 previously convicted inmates, 20 who were on Death Row (Wiki).

 

In cases where there's not irrefutable, concrete DNA/Photographic/other evidence - I just don't know how we can be sure we don't accidentally terminate the wrong person.

I guess I am too much of a numbers guy.  20/3000 less than 1 percent.  I say they are doing a pretty good job.  I would also like to see the criminal records of the "innocent" 20 that were freed.  I would bet a large amount of money that most if not all are habitual offenders.


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#72 Cruzer

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:10 AM

I guess I am too much of a numbers guy.  20/3000 less than 1 percent.  I say they are doing a pretty good job.  I would also like to see the criminal records of the "innocent" 20 that were freed.  I would bet a large amount of money that most if not all are habitual offenders.

When you're the one facing a Capital Murder indictment, that "pretty good job" stuff doesn't seem so pretty good after all... Especially in Texas - where executions are basically a sport.



#73 Patriotsfatboy1

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:15 AM

When you're the one facing a Capital Murder indictment, that "pretty good job" stuff doesn't seem so pretty good after all... Especially in Texas - where executions are basically a sport.

 

Especially if you are Mexican descent. 


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#74 Cruzer

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:18 AM

 

Especially if you are Mexican descent. 

Double bingo.

 

We all hear about this stuff happening, glance over the stats - but we never really absorb the reality of it...... I was just as guilty of it as anyone - till it was me on the other end...... Let me tell you, when it is - it's very real, and it's very scary.



#75 Bert

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:00 AM

When you're the one facing a Capital Murder indictment, that "pretty good job" stuff doesn't seem so pretty good after all... Especially in Texas - where executions are basically a sport.

That is why I also mentioned the fact that even the "innocent" ones have long criminal records. I don't think removing habitual criminals is all that bad but I do understand your point.  It could be the catholic nuns beating into me "the good must suffer with the bad" for all those years.  


You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?

#76 Cruzer

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:40 AM

That is why I also mentioned the fact that even the "innocent" ones have long criminal records. I don't think removing habitual criminals is all that bad but I do understand your point.  It could be the catholic nuns beating into me "the good must suffer with the bad" for all those years.  

I did Catechism all the way thru my Confirmation.

 

Let me tell ya, Catholic Nuns are right up there with wounded badgers as far as mean things you don't fock with. :nono:



#77 MDC

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:44 AM

There are many problems with the death penalty, aside from killing a few innocent people along the way. It costs states a lot more than life in prison. Wanna make it cheaper - Eliminate the appeal process, but then you'll end up killing more innocents.

Then there's the issue of killing somebody's family member. Everyone rightfully feels terrible for the victims family, but the murderer has family too. They didn't do anything wrong, but will suffer just the same.

The law says we don't execute mentally ill, but there's varying degrees of mental illness. It's extremely arbitrary to pick and chose who qualifies and who doesn't.

There's also the issue of the first to turn states evidence gets life, while the other gets death, for the same crime. That's a dramatic difference just based on who the prosecutor gets to roll over first. Even if the second one is willing to roll, he's screwed.

Then there's the issue of people going insane waiting to be executed. That's cruel and unusual in itself.

State-sanctioned executing of citizens... that's the kind of sh*t countries like China, Iran and North Korea do. Not civilized countries. Except the US.

20+ years after the crime, the condemned are often completely different people. You aren't killing a young stupid murderer, but an older man some of which are reformed. I heard a warden interviewed who said this was a huge issue for him. "Letting out dangerous ex-cons who's sentences are up, and then having to execute some men you'd trust to babysit your kid."

There's other problems, but those reasons enough. As for being a deterrent, it ain't. Nobody in history has ever said "I'd commit murder if the sentence was only life in prison, but that death penalty is just too much." Which is why not surpringly there's no correlation in murder rates between states with death penalty and those without.

The one benefit of the death penalty - compensation to victim and victim families. If you can call it compensation. But the problems that go along with it are just too much.

I will say there are extremely rare cases where the death penalty might be appropriate... cases involving terrorist leaders and spies, where even in prison for life, the person poses a real threat to national security. Osama Bin Laden for example.


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#78 LOD01

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:12 PM

It only costs more because it's not administered correctly. It a weak ass argument.

###### the murderer. Kill em

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Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.

 

 

 

 


#79 LOD01

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:37 PM

This punk that shot up the school today. Perfect example of same day execution. Torture the ###### out of him, then hang him. Appeals take about 10 seconds each.


FBG is a shithole.

 

Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.

 

 

 

 


#80 LOD01

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 08:12 AM

Supreme Court doing it's job. Let's keep this ball rolling. Who's next?

 

The U.S. Supreme Court has refused to stop the scheduled execution of a convicted Texas killer whose lawyers argued he's too sick for lethal injection.

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-163657917.html

 

 

If Trump adds a new justice that is in favor of swift executions, then he is making a good pick. This too way too long to rid the planet of this bag of dogshit.


FBG is a shithole.

 

Sho Nuff, on 29 Jun 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:snapback.png

Right got now...yes, I donsode more with the right than left.