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To be healthy and live long - eat a medium amount of carbs


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#1 MTSkiBum

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 01:38 PM


Both high and low percentages of carbohydrate diets were associated with increased mortality, with minimal risk observed at 50–55% carbohydrate intake. Low carbohydrate dietary patterns favouring animal-derived protein and fat sources, from sources such as lamb, beef, pork, and chicken, were associated with higher mortality, whereas those that favoured plant-derived protein and fat intake, from sources such as vegetables, nuts, peanut butter, and whole-grain breads, were associated with lower mortality, suggesting that the source of food notably modifies the association between carbohydrate intake and mortality.

 

https://www.thelance...e/PIIS2468-2667(18)30135-X/fulltext

 

Published yesterday.


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#2 Cloaca du jour

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 01:41 PM

Everything in moderation...who knew?

#3 listen2me 23

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:10 PM

Everything in moderation...who knew?


This is what I cam to post.

People go to extremes thinking they are hip to some new science.

If you would like to lose weight

1. Eat better
2. Eat less

People act like it is rocket science or there is some new code.

#4 MDC

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:11 PM

This is what I cam to post.

People go to extremes thinking they are hip to some new science.

If you would like to lose weight

1. Eat better
2. Eat less

People act like it is rocket science or there is some new code.


B b b but ketosis!
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#5 tanatastic

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:14 PM

B-b-But muh humans werent meant to eat meat or bread even though they lived exclusively on those for thousands of years!

#6 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:24 PM

MDC won that other thread. That hurt.

#7 Reality

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:28 PM

MDC won that other thread. That hurt.

 

:lol:  :lol:  

 

He won't be showing up in that thread ever again.



#8 GhostofTEK

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:38 PM

MDC won that other thread. That hurt.

Huh? I thought Drobeski was the only one allowed to win threads. FAKE NEWS!



#9 penultimatestraw

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:42 PM

https://www.thelance...e/PIIS2468-2667(18)30135-X/fulltext
 
Published yesterday.

The key finding is increased mortality associated with animal-derived fats and proteins, although that isn’t news to anyone who’s been paying attention. I’d like to see the breakdown in the high carbohydrate arm, as I suspect they included refined/processed stuff along with veggies, fruits, legumes and grains. Lumping that cr@p in with healthy carbohydrates is pretty much the same mistake anyone who criticizes carbohydrate intake makes.

 

ETA: They did lump them together.

Moreover, in our study most participants from low-income and middle-income countries consumed a very high carbohydrate diet (at least 60% of energy), especially from refined sources (such as white rice and white bread), which have been shown to be associated with increased risk of total mortality and cardiovascular events.42 



#10 fandandy

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:50 PM

The key finding is increased mortality associated with animal-derived fats and proteins, although that isn’t news to anyone who’s been paying attention. I’d like to see the breakdown in the high carbohydrate arm, as I suspect they included refined/processed stuff along with veggies, fruits, legumes and grains. Lumping that cr@p in with healthy carbohydrates is pretty much the same mistake anyone who criticizes carbohydrate intake makes.

Not to sidetrack but what about eggs?  I have been eating plain hard boiled eggs as a snack recently.  No salt, just the egg.  Yeah or nay?



#11 Mr. Hand

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:51 PM

Not to sidetrack but what about eggs?  I have been eating plain hard boiled eggs as a snack recently.  No salt, just the egg.  Yeah or nay?

Keep eating them! Nothing wrong at all.



#12 GhostofTEK

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:55 PM

Keep eating them! Nothing wrong at all.

This week anyway. Next week they will be bad. Why don't they just admit that they don't know. Eat what you want. Enjoy life. 



#13 penultimatestraw

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 02:59 PM

Not to sidetrack but what about eggs?  I have been eating plain hard boiled eggs as a snack recently.  No salt, just the egg.  Yeah or nay?

Probably fine in moderation.



#14 Gladiators

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 03:10 PM

What about pusssy? Yay or nay?

#15 GhostofTEK

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 03:11 PM

What about pusssy? Yay or nay?

This week yay. Next week nay. 



#16 Mr. Hand

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 03:22 PM

What about pusssy? Yay or nay?

Ask Michael Douglas



#17 penultimatestraw

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 03:30 PM

What about pusssy? Yay or nay?

Only low-fat for me.



#18 Gladiators

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 03:33 PM

Only low-fat for me.


:thumbsup:

#19 penultimatestraw

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 04:48 PM

The better point this study reenforces is type of food is more important than the specific macronutrient content. The whole idea of counting carbohydrates, fats and protein is pretty silly when good and bad food choices exist in all macronutrient classes. In general, plant-based stuff is better than animal-derived, and fresh, unprocessed food is better than whatever food-like substances litter the inner aisles of the grocery store. Pollan and others have been advocating this brand of healthy eating for years.



#20 MDC

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 04:55 PM

Vindicated! :pointstosky:
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#21 Big Guy

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 05:10 PM

Everything in moderation...who knew?

 

This  :thumbsup:

 

though I wouldn't include everything


             

 

 

 

 

 


#22 peenie

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:39 PM

Maybe we're not supposed to live longer. Maybe we're really supposed to die young and we're prolonging our lives out of fear and selfishness.


Peenie gives good thread. -MedStudent
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#23 kutulu

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:47 PM

Maybe we're not supposed to live longer. Maybe we're really supposed to die young and we're prolonging our lives out of fear and selfishness.

I have something to say: it's better to burn out, than to fade away. :headbanger:
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#24 shorepatrol

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 08:09 PM

 it's better to burn out, than to fade away.



#25 Frozenbeernuts

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 09:37 PM

I have something to say: it's better to burn out, than to fade away. :headbanger:


Sounds like something an ignoramus sould say

#26 KSB2424

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 09:43 PM

I have something to say: it's better to burn out, than to fade away. :headbanger:


:pointstosky:

Disclaimer: I have no focking idea what I'm talking about.

"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile." – Albert Einstein

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

 

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#27 shorepatrol

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 10:43 PM

Sounds like something an ignoramus sould say

Enjoy sh!tting yourself, being a burden to your family and being miserable as you're fading away. You have no idea lol  



#28 NorthernVike

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 12:06 AM

Fock that. Smoked peanuts still taste like shiot. Give me beef. :bandana:

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You guys have no focking clue what happened so you really should just shut it..

 


#29 frank

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 12:24 PM

Sounds like something a Kurgan would say


Another Dumb fvcking post by frank. :wave:

 

 

 

 

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#30 frank

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 12:26 PM

Maybe we're not supposed to live longer. Maybe we're really supposed to die young and we're prolonging our lives out of fear and selfishness.

 


Another Dumb fvcking post by frank. :wave:

 

 

 

 

"If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler."

-- Jack Lambert --

 

OOTMFFOTB


#31 trumpurethra

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 02:39 PM

Lol ok whatever. You can eat a moderate amount of good carbs, sure. But not if you want a 6 pack.

 

As far as red meat bad; chicken, fish and veggies good. Known that forever. Not gonna stop me from having steak. Besides if I'm hitting it hard in the gym 5 or 6 days a weak I think my arteries can handle a little red meat.



#32 penultimatestraw

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 03:38 PM

Lol ok whatever. You can eat a moderate amount of good carbs, sure. But not if you want a 6 pack.

 

As far as red meat bad; chicken, fish and veggies good. Known that forever. Not gonna stop me from having steak. Besides if I'm hitting it hard in the gym 5 or 6 days a weak I think my arteries can handle a little red meat.

Your arteries don't care much about lifting, and your abdominal muscles don't monitor carbohydrate intake. But if you maintain a healthy weight and exercise regularly, you're way ahead of most of the population. To be clear though, all animal protein should be consumed sparingly for optimal health - not just red meat.



#33 jerryskids

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 05:36 PM

B b b but ketosis!

 

Ketosis works, it's known science.  Even Penny begrudgingly admits it.  And Atkins way back when did not espouse a lifetime of zero carbs; that was for an obese person to lose weight.  He espoused maintenance diets which re-introduced (healthy) carbs.

 

So please stop conflating it with mortality rates. 

 

But on that subject, can someone provide a working link to the original article?  :cheers:


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#34 penultimatestraw

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:10 PM

 

Ketosis works, it's known science.  Even Penny begrudgingly admits it.  And Atkins way back when did not espouse a lifetime of zero carbs; that was for an obese person to lose weight.  He espoused maintenance diets which re-introduced (healthy) carbs.

 

So please stop conflating it with mortality rates. 

 

But on that subject, can someone provide a working link to the original article?  :cheers:

I'll concede that ketogenic diets promote short-term weight loss. That's it. My point remains that they are not healthy, and promote behaviors (restricting plant-based carbohydrates in favor of animal fat and proteins) which are incongruent with the diets of long lived populations.

 

I've previously linked studies that show increased mortality associated with VLC diets, including this one:

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0055030

 

 Here is a link to the study in the OP:

https://www.thelance...ode=lancet-site



#35 penultimatestraw

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:40 PM

Enjoy sh!tting yourself, being a burden to your family and being miserable as you're fading away. You have no idea lol  

They've done studies on healthy habits and end-of-life. Whereas we'll all likely end up debilitated at some point, doing the right things for your health prolongs life and delays the onset of suffering.

 

And I have a pretty good idea what happens to people who abuse their bodies when they "burn out".



#36 jerryskids

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 07:46 PM

I'll concede that ketogenic diets promote short-term weight loss. That's it. My point remains that they are not healthy, and promote behaviors (restricting plant-based carbohydrates in favor of animal fat and proteins) which are incongruent with the diets of long lived populations.

 

I've previously linked studies that show increased mortality associated with VLC diets, including this one:

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0055030

 

 Here is a link to the study in the OP:

https://www.thelance...ode=lancet-site

 

It's like you didn't read a word I wrote, awesome, thanks for the engaging discussion.  :thumbsup:


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#37 fandandy

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 07:55 PM

You guys are getting engaged?



#38 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 07:59 PM

You guys are getting engaged?


Who's the bottom?

#39 jerryskids

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 08:07 PM



I'll concede that ketogenic diets promote short-term weight loss. That's it. My point remains that they are not healthy, and promote behaviors (restricting plant-based carbohydrates in favor of animal fat and proteins) which are incongruent with the diets of long lived populations.

 

I've previously linked studies that show increased mortality associated with VLC diets, including this one:

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0055030

 

 Here is a link to the study in the OP:

https://www.thelance...ode=lancet-site

 

Wait, I just read the Lancet link that started this whole thing, please help me to understand how this defends your position, or carbs at all.  :unsure:

 


 


Summary


Background
The relationship between macronutrients and cardiovascular disease and mortality is controversial. Most available data are from European and North American populations where nutrition excess is more likely, so their applicability to other populations is unclear.

Methods
The Prospective Urban Rural Epidemiology (PURE) study is a large, epidemiological cohort study of individuals aged 35–70 years (enrolled between Jan 1, 2003, and March 31, 2013) in 18 countries with a median follow-up of 7·4 years (IQR 5·3–9·3). Dietary intake of 135 335 individuals was recorded using validated food frequency questionnaires. The primary outcomes were total mortality and major cardiovascular events (fatal cardiovascular disease, non-fatal myocardial infarction, stroke, and heart failure). Secondary outcomes were all myocardial infarctions, stroke, cardiovascular disease mortality, and non-cardiovascular disease mortality. Participants were categorised into quintiles of nutrient intake (carbohydrate, fats, and protein) based on percentage of energy provided by nutrients. We assessed the associations between consumption of carbohydrate, total fat, and each type of fat with cardiovascular disease and total mortality. We calculated hazard ratios (HRs) using a multivariable Cox frailty model with random intercepts to account for centre clustering.

Findings
During follow-up, we documented 5796 deaths and 4784 major cardiovascular disease events. Higher carbohydrate intake was associated with an increased risk of total mortality (highest [quintile 5] vs lowest quintile [quintile 1] category, HR 1·28 [95% CI 1·12–1·46], ptrend=0·0001) but not with the risk of cardiovascular disease or cardiovascular disease mortality. Intake of total fat and each type of fat was associated with lower risk of total mortality (quintile 5 vsquintile 1, total fat: HR 0·77 [95% CI 0·67–0·87], ptrend<0·0001; saturated fat, HR 0·86 [0·76–0·99], ptrend=0·0088; monounsaturated fat: HR 0·81 [0·71–0·92], ptrend<0·0001; and polyunsaturated fat: HR 0·80 [0·71–0·89], ptrend<0·0001). Higher saturated fat intake was associated with lower risk of stroke (quintile 5 vs quintile 1, HR 0·79 [95% CI 0·64–0·98], ptrend=0·0498). Total fat and saturated and unsaturated fats were not significantly associated with risk of myocardial infarction or cardiovascular disease mortality.

Interpretation
High carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk of total mortality, whereas total fat and individual types of fat were related to lower total mortality. Total fat and types of fat were not associated with cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction, or cardiovascular disease mortality, whereas saturated fat had an inverse association with stroke. Global dietary guidelines should be reconsidered in light of these findings.

Funding
Full funding sources listed at the end of the paper (see Acknowledgments).

 


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#40 penultimatestraw

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 08:20 PM

Wait, I just read the Lancet link that started this whole thing, please help me to understand how this defends your position, or carbs at all.  :unsure:

Read the whole paper. Low carb and high carb diets are both bad, but the high carbohydrate group includes a bunch of processed cr@p. The text also discusses how the source of the macronutrients - plant versus animal, accounts for much of the health benefits.

And I dont know why you continually think Im missing your point.

You: Ketosis is fine. Carbs are the debbil! My daughter has diabetes.

Me: Healthy carbs are, well, healthy. Ketosis is a starvation state that isnt healthy long term. Long-lived populations eat diets that are plant based and carbohydrate rich.

You: Their diets arent much different than mine, and probably much more fat/protein intake than advertised because they eat a lot of nuts.

Me: No, they still eat predominantly carbohydrates, including the dreaded grains which you avoid. And they eat much less animal-derived products than you or the typical ketophile.

You: You arent listening to me! :mad: