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Chiefs sign Sammy Watkins!


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#1 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:53 AM

:pointstosky:

Hunt, Hill, Watkins & Kelce

:eek:

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#2 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:57 AM

They overpaid Watkins.

#3 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:58 AM

They overpaid Watkins.

who cares. You do realize he is the same age as Tyreek Hill, right? Plus, it's only a 3 year deal. Adding another vertical receiver to maximize Mahomes cannon is exactly what the Chiefs need.

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#4 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:01 AM

And tyreek has been a more productive receiver to this point. If Watkins wasn't a first round pick he'd be a no name. Injury prone and not overly productive when on the field. Maybe he'll benefit from being the number three receiving option.

#5 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:03 AM

And tyreek has been a more productive receiver to this point. If Watkins wasn't a first round pick he'd be a no name. Injury prone and not overly productive when on the field. Maybe he'll benefit from being the number three receiving option.

what QBs has he worked with to this point?

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#6 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:06 AM

I'd say Goff last year was quality and he was out produced by Gurley, Woods and Cupp. I don't think we can be sure Mahomes is going to be an upgrade. He's certainly downgrading coaches.

#7 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:12 AM

Sorry if I'm killing your buzz, I just don't see the hype around Watkins any more. He has to do something at this point.

#8 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:27 AM

Sorry if I'm killing your buzz, I just don't see the hype around Watkins any more. He has to do something at this point.

I hear what you're saying.  His first two years in the league with a sub-par QB he averaged about 62 receptions for 1,000 yards and 15 TDs between the 2 years.  He only played 8 games the following year and his production dropped by just about half.

 

Then last year with a 2nd year QB, he was only targeted a total of 70 times, compared to 128 in '14 and 95 in '15.  It seems the Rams had a ton more options to rely on where in Buffalo at times he was expected to be the offense.

 

He comes into KC where once again he doesn't have to be the offense.  However, his long TDs are what should be of intrigue; 84 yards in '14, 63 in '15, 62 in '16 and 67 with the Rams.  The Chiefs now have two speed threats to complement a guy that threw a 78 yard ball in the air at his pro day workout.  Who the hell is going to be able to defend that?  Hell just have Tyreek and Watkins stretch the field every play and then either dump it off to Kelce or Hunt if open, or just chuck it down field every time and see what happens.

 

:dunno:


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#9 shutdown

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:09 AM

I'd say Goff last year was quality and he was out produced by Gurley, Woods and Cupp. I don't think we can be sure Mahomes is going to be an upgrade. He's certainly downgrading coaches.

I think the threat of Gurley and Watkins were the reasons for the success of Woods and Kupp.  Watkins is not an elite WR so he doesn't make as many plays when he's clearly the No 1 receiving threat, but he's a solid No1 receiver.  The Rams, either by design or by defenses taking him away, seemed to use him as a decoy or simply didn't throw his way due to him drawing tougher coverages (the list of CB's he faced last year was brutal) But he has shown he can be a very good receiver, when healthy, on poor offensive teams.

 

I think the move to KC, despite the clear downgrade in QB, benefits him.  With a one of the league's best ground games plus Hill and Kelce, he's not going to be constantly drawing other teams top CB's and drawing bracketed coverage will happen much more rarely.  I think this sets up for him to have a very good season if Mahomes can be an average NFL QB because I think he's a good enough WR to beat single coverage more often than not.



#10 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:21 AM

I think the threat of Gurley and Watkins were the reasons for the success of Woods and Kupp.  Watkins is not an elite WR so he doesn't make as many plays when he's clearly the No 1 receiving threat, but he's a solid No1 receiver.  The Rams, either by design or by defenses taking him away, seemed to use him as a decoy or simply didn't throw his way due to him drawing tougher coverages (the list of CB's he faced last year was brutal) But he has shown he can be a very good receiver, when healthy, on poor offensive teams.

 

I think the move to KC, despite the clear downgrade in QB, benefits him.  With a one of the league's best ground games plus Hill and Kelce, he's not going to be constantly drawing other teams top CB's and drawing bracketed coverage will happen much more rarely.  I think this sets up for him to have a very good season if Mahomes can be an average NFL QB because I think he's a good enough WR to beat single coverage more often than not.

I agree with everything you have said except the downgrade at QB part.  Is Alex Smith a downgrade from Jared Goff?  If so, by how much?  Because the Chiefs just gave Alex Smith away to clear the path for Mahomes.  And if he lives up to the hype, you're about to see a high draft pick groomed into an elite level QB.


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#11 seafoam1

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:24 AM

I agree with everything you have said except the downgrade at QB part.  Is Alex Smith a downgrade from Jared Goff?  If so, by how much?  Because the Chiefs just gave Alex Smith away to clear the path for Mahomes.  And if he lives up to the hype, you're about to see a high draft pick groomed into an elite level QB.


So in fantasy, where are you ranking Mahomes?

#12 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:26 AM

OSo in fantasy, where are you ranking him?

I'm a complete homer here, but I think the sky is the limit.  I'm thinking where we used to always have the Bradys, Mannings, Rodgers, Brees, Warners, etc leading the way in fantasy, you're about to see a new crop of elite talent take over and Mahomes is going to be one of those guys on the top of everyone's lists consistently year after year.


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#13 Mike FF Today

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:05 AM

They overpaid Watkins.

 

The deal is worth $48 million with $30 million guaranteed, sources told ESPN's Dianna Russini.

 

$30 million guaranteed isn't bad but considering he's probably third in targets behind Kelce and Hill, yeah it's overpaying.


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#14 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:09 AM

 
The deal is worth $48 million with $30 million guaranteed, sources told ESPN's Dianna Russini.
 
$30 million guaranteed isn't bad but considering he's probably third in targets behind Kelce and Hill, yeah it's overpaying.

except Kelce and Hill are still playing on rookie contracts so there's that :dunno:

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#15 IGotWorms

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:41 AM

Hes a b1tch

#16 shutdown

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:50 AM

I agree with everything you have said except the downgrade at QB part.  Is Alex Smith a downgrade from Jared Goff?  If so, by how much?  Because the Chiefs just gave Alex Smith away to clear the path for Mahomes.  And if he lives up to the hype, you're about to see a high draft pick groomed into an elite level QB.

Downgrade is probably the wrong word.  Goff is a known commodity, Mahomes is not.  The level of QB play was less of a risk in LA than it is in KC.  Mahomes has a gun, but he had accuracy and decision making issues in college.  I expect him to have ups and downs this year, but the offense around him should be one of the best in the league.



#17 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 12:30 PM

That I can get on board with :thumbsup:

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#18 weepaws

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:46 PM

He has 67 rec over the last two seasons, and was clearly the third best wr on the Rams last season.

I think he will flop again.

I don't like this pick up.

Think he's way over rated.

I just pray he goes high in my ff draft next season
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#19 cmh6476

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:59 PM

He has 67 rec over the last two seasons, and was clearly the third best wr on the Rams last season.

I think he will flop again.

I don't like this pick up.

Think he's way over rated.

I just pray he goes high in my ff draft next season

I wouldn't say I would be targeting him high, as I too think his fantasy value may be overvalued. However, in terms of just playing football having two legitimate outside speed threats completely opens up this offense and should be a huge bump for the Chiefs. Teams had enough trouble scheming for the big three of Hunt, Hill and Kelce and now they have added a playmaker making more money than any of those guys. If anything, I think it bumps up the fantasy value of all the guys who were already rostered.

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#20 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 06:18 PM

Teams had enough trouble scheming for the big three of Hunt, Hill and Kelce and now they have added a playmaker making more money than any of those guys. If anything, I think it bumps up the fantasy value of all the guys who were already rostered.

Andy Reid does enough scheming against his guys that the other team doesn't have to worry about coming up with a plan.

#21 kilroy69

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 06:23 PM

Theoretically it's a good move. Realistically he makes it 5 games before a foot injury shelves him till next year. Rinse. Wash. Repeat for 3 years.
Its still not a hummingbird.

#22 shutdown

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 06:06 AM

He has 67 rec over the last two seasons, and was clearly the third best wr on the Rams last season.

I think he will flop again.

I don't like this pick up.

Think he's way over rated.

I just pray he goes high in my ff draft next season

He played 8 games in 2016 due to injury.  He's played in at least 13 games each of the 3 other seasons.  I think he's one of those players who, because he has played with injuries, get the "always injured" tag.

 

He had 65 and 60 receptions his first two years in the league.  In 2016 his production extrapolated over the season would have been 56 receptions.  He had 39 last year for the Rams, so that's really the only outlier data point in his 4 seasons. 

 

As to the point of being the third best WR on the team.. I'm not ready to say that in football terms.  Was he the third most productive - absolutely.  Woods and Kupp outperformed him statistically, but I still think he was part of the reason Woods, Kupp and Gurley (as a receiver) were successful.  His 15.2 yards per catch were more than any of the other receivers, meaning he was likely the one who helped keep the safeties out of the middle of the field.  Look at Robert Woods career stats.  He is who he is.. 50-60 receptions per year with a 12.5 ypc average and has topped 700 yards in his career one time.  He's a nice player but not as talented as Watkins.  Kupp had a great rookie season and I think he'll continue to develop as a receiver, but I don't think he's a guy you want as your #1 WR.  I'll be curious to see how the Rams move to replace Watkins.  39 Receptions  doesn't seem like a huge void to fill, but I think the field really shrinks on them if Woods and Kupp are your outside receivers.

 

On KC, Watkins won't be used exclusively down the field.  Hill does that, and Kelce also occupies a safety.  Watkins should have more freedom to operate.  I read an article where teams pressed Watkins effectively last year, not fearing his ability to separate from the corner.  I think some of that was that he faced a lot of elite level corners last year and some of that is because, outside of Watkins, there was no deep threat on the Rams so coverage could be rolled over him if he did manage to separate. 

 

I'm not saying he's worth the money KC paid.  He's clearly not lived up to the draft hype and if he can't separate from physical coverage, that's clearly an issue, but this year he goes from being the player a defense focused on in the passing game, to being the third option in coverage schemes.  I think that for him, that's going to be better situation for him to produce statistically.  He's not going to see the #1 CB every play.  He's not going to have safeties over him every play.

 

So clearly his past performance doesn't justify the money, his age and potential in this offense made him worth it to the Chiefs who have the luxury of a QB on a rookie deal and can pay him at this level for 3 years.  It think, for the Chiefs, it's a good move, it makes them difficult to defend with 3 downfield receiving options and a dangerous RB.  For Watkins, who isn't in the top tier of WR's but has had to play the No1 role throughout his career, it gives him a chance to operate in a system where defenses can't focus as much attention on him.  Barring injury I suspect this season will more closely resemble his first two in the league.  60 receptions and around 900-1000 yards. Albert Wilson had 42 receptions last year so 60 for Watkins isn't much of a reach here, it's one more reception per game. 

 

If he starts getting drafted as a #1 WR in fantasy, that's clearly a mistake, but I think he'll be a solid WR 2 next year in standard leagues.  PPR maybe more of a 2-3 as he's never been a volume reception guy.  All this is based on getting competent QB play from Mahommes which is certainly an unknown at this point.



#23 weepaws

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 08:08 AM

He played 8 games in 2016 due to injury.  He's played in at least 13 games each of the 3 other seasons.  I think he's one of those players who, because he has played with injuries, get the "always injured" tag.
 
He had 65 and 60 receptions his first two years in the league.  In 2016 his production extrapolated over the season would have been 56 receptions.  He had 39 last year for the Rams, so that's really the only outlier data point in his 4 seasons. 
 
As to the point of being the third best WR on the team.. I'm not ready to say that in football terms.  Was he the third most productive - absolutely.  Woods and Kupp outperformed him statistically, but I still think he was part of the reason Woods, Kupp and Gurley (as a receiver) were successful.  His 15.2 yards per catch were more than any of the other receivers, meaning he was likely the one who helped keep the safeties out of the middle of the field.  Look at Robert Woods career stats.  He is who he is.. 50-60 receptions per year with a 12.5 ypc average and has topped 700 yards in his career one time.  He's a nice player but not as talented as Watkins.  Kupp had a great rookie season and I think he'll continue to develop as a receiver, but I don't think he's a guy you want as your #1 WR.  I'll be curious to see how the Rams move to replace Watkins.  39 Receptions  doesn't seem like a huge void to fill, but I think the field really shrinks on them if Woods and Kupp are your outside receivers.
 
On KC, Watkins won't be used exclusively down the field.  Hill does that, and Kelce also occupies a safety.  Watkins should have more freedom to operate.  I read an article where teams pressed Watkins effectively last year, not fearing his ability to separate from the corner.  I think some of that was that he faced a lot of elite level corners last year and some of that is because, outside of Watkins, there was no deep threat on the Rams so coverage could be rolled over him if he did manage to separate. 
 
I'm not saying he's worth the money KC paid.  He's clearly not lived up to the draft hype and if he can't separate from physical coverage, that's clearly an issue, but this year he goes from being the player a defense focused on in the passing game, to being the third option in coverage schemes.  I think that for him, that's going to be better situation for him to produce statistically.  He's not going to see the #1 CB every play.  He's not going to have safeties over him every play.
 
So clearly his past performance doesn't justify the money, his age and potential in this offense made him worth it to the Chiefs who have the luxury of a QB on a rookie deal and can pay him at this level for 3 years.  It think, for the Chiefs, it's a good move, it makes them difficult to defend with 3 downfield receiving options and a dangerous RB.  For Watkins, who isn't in the top tier of WR's but has had to play the No1 role throughout his career, it gives him a chance to operate in a system where defenses can't focus as much attention on him.  Barring injury I suspect this season will more closely resemble his first two in the league.  60 receptions and around 900-1000 yards. Albert Wilson had 42 receptions last year so 60 for Watkins isn't much of a reach here, it's one more reception per game. 
 
If he starts getting drafted as a #1 WR in fantasy, that's clearly a mistake, but I think he'll be a solid WR 2 next year in standard leagues.  PPR maybe more of a 2-3 as he's never been a volume reception guy.  All this is based on getting competent QB play from Mahommes which is certainly an unknown at this point.

The top part of this post made my point, and doesn't deserve th tag of someone that can't stay healthy.

And he was only the third best producing wr on the Rams last season, and in ff production is what we are looking for right?

In ppr I see more a 3-4 wr and I wouldn't take him above a wr4 myself.

And my ranking as a lot to do what you said, he helped make those other two WRs with the he Rams better, I see the same thing with the Chiefs, so that doesn't relate into ff wr2 numbers for Watkins.

But hey each are own.

Thanks for the reply.

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All ways lead to God, everyone one will be judged and then sentence, but there is only one way to Heaven and thats though Jesus Christ Lord and Savior. God Bless

Isaiah 12:2. Luke 14:23. Daniel 4:37. 2 Kings 17:39. Nahum 1:7. 1 Timothy 6:18-19. Psalm 9:7&8.
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#24 kilroy69

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 11:08 AM

"his production extrapolated over the season" 

 

BO Jackson would be a hall of famer if he could have just extrapolated over a 15 year career. 


Its still not a hummingbird.

#25 titans&bucs&bearsohmy!

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 05:25 AM

Andy Reid does enough scheming against his guys that the other team doesn't have to worry about coming up with a plan.


This. Reid has always been an overly conservative west coast dink and dunk guy. Ill be curious to see how he uses all his fast toys.

As a titans fan, I have to thank Andy for that playoff win. Coaching malpractice.