phillybear 364 Posted March 6, 2012 Stop being such a focking idiot. Anyone can make statistics say whatever he wants if he tries hard enough. You are of the opinion that it's better for kids to grow up around parents who beat the living sh!t out of each other (and probably the kid too) than it is for the kid to grow up in a so-called "broken" home. I get it. That's your opinion. Please do not try to pretend that it's anything more than that. Speaking of making up statistics, did you just actually compare a house where a kid gets beaten (statistically insignificant %) vs broken homes (60% of all households)? I see remedial math courses in your future, maybe starting with 3rd grade level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanXIII 8 Posted March 6, 2012 Did you bother to read any of the studies I posted, or are you still exhausted from the "countless" studies you've been studying in your studies? And I'll go out on a limb and declare that the % of children abused in unhappy homes is higher (significantly so, statistically) than the % that kill themselves due to being subjected to the horrors of having to spend time with their parents. But you're the math whiz here so whatevah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mobb_deep 917 Posted March 6, 2012 Stop being such a focking idiot. Anyone can make statistics say whatever he wants if he tries hard enough. You are of the opinion that it's better for kids to grow up around parents who beat the living sh!t out of each other (and probably the kid too) than it is for the kid to grow up in a so-called "broken" home. I get it. That's your opinion. Please do not try to pretend that it's anything more than that. A-hole. I never once said it is better for kids to grow up around parents who "beat the sh!t out of eachother". Quit acting like a stupid focking tard. You asked philly to "post a link to a study supporting those statements". I posted that link and then you started firing off links that stated otherwise. You didn't ask for multiple links that lists the pros and cons. I gave you what you asked for and then you tarded out, on some high and mighty tirade. Please make your way to the nearest go fock yourself zone ASAP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillybear 364 Posted March 6, 2012 Did you bother to read any of the studies I posted, or are you still exhausted from the "countless" studies you've been studying in your studies? And I'll go out on a limb and declare that the % of children abused in unhappy homes is higher (significantly so, statistically) than the % that kill themselves due to being subjected to the horrors of having to spend time with their parents. But you're the math whiz here so whatevah. You completely twisted my words into something warped and untrue. :sadbanana: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanXIII 8 Posted March 6, 2012 A-hole. I never once said it is better for kids to grow up around parents who "beat the sh!t out of eachother". Quit acting like a stupid focking tard. You asked philly to "post a link to a study supporting those statements". I posted that link and then you started firing off links that stated otherwise. You didn't ask for multiple links that lists the pros and cons. I gave you what you asked for and then you tarded out, on some high and mighty tirade. Please make your way to the nearest go fock yourself zone ASAP. "high and mighty tirade?" But... Anyone who says kids are better off being from broken homes, than raised around "parents fighting" is a tard. While it's true that the kids are victims either way, the problem with this country is everybody wants to take the easy way out. Then they try to convince themselves that they're somehow doing the right thing. Do us all a favor and don't bring kids into the world, if you're too selfish to provide them with a proper upbringing. "High and mighty tirade" indeed. You seriously add nothing to this bored but stupid, and there's plenty of stupid here in spades. So thanks, I guess. My point is that there is no conclusive evidence either way. Your point is that you're right and anyone who doesn't agree with you is "taking the easy way out." For every "study" you find that agrees with you it's fairly easy to find one that completely disagrees with you. Again please stop being such a focking idiot. Your foregone conclusions are just that, yours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mobb_deep 917 Posted March 6, 2012 "high and mighty tirade?" But... "High and mighty tirade" indeed. You seriously add nothing to this bored but stupid, and there's plenty of stupid here in spades. So thanks, I guess. My point is that there is no conclusive evidence either way. Your point is that you're right and anyone who doesn't agree with you is "taking the easy way out." For every "study" you find that agrees with you it's fairly easy to find one that completely disagrees with you. Again please stop being such a focking idiot. Your foregone conclusions are just that, yours. No, my point is you asked for someone to post a link and they did. Then you went off on a spasm about how data can be twisted and blah blah. Itsatip that don't ask for focking links that support one side of an argument, if that's not what you want. Are you really this thick? You asked for a link and you got a link!!!! You got EXACTLY what you asked for. What are you crying about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanXIII 8 Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks for the link. I didn't have a problem with the link. It's your douchecanoe "I know everything, rawr!" attitude. But whatever, this is the geek bored, to be expected I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 540 Posted March 6, 2012 I have the facts on my side. Go prove me wrong. Oh, but you can't, can you? Nobody can match wits with the master. My wits are unapproachable, unconceivable, unprecedented, unpregnable, unpreventable. I'm completely without peers. In fact, my wits can't even be called merely human wits. They are beyond. Therefore, I'm witless. phillybear wins again, phillybear wins again. This is code for phillybear saying "Damn. Actually I don't have any links. I was caught spewing bullsh!t again" Typical day on the message board for our resident idiot and liar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillybear 364 Posted March 6, 2012 This is code for phillybear saying "Damn. Actually I don't have any links. I was caught spewing bullsh!t again" Typical day on the message board for our resident idiot and liar. I'm not going to do Google searches from work; God knows where the browser will take me. I stay on safe sites I am familiar with, you focking inbred pile of pig sh!t. Bed bugs find it beneath them to go anywhere near you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanXIII 8 Posted March 6, 2012 Philly is actually entertaining and a good writer and also Official Geek of the Year By Proxy/Alias so he can do whatever the fock he wants. imo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillybear 364 Posted March 6, 2012 Philly is actually entertaining and a good writer and also Official Geek of the Year By Proxy/Alias so he can do whatever the fock he wants. imo I am the biggest jackass on this site. Don't besmirch my credibility. :mad: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted March 6, 2012 The following has nothing to do with TAS specifically: Your statements are a microcosm of what's wrong with our culturally accepted view of marriage. Marriage is a union, for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. If BOTH people are committed to this -- to work with each other to solve the problems -- most marriages could be saved. I've gone through some rough times with my wife, and we worked through it, and our marriage is by far stronger than it has ever been. Adversity can unite you in ways that bliss never can, if you let it. But it takes two to tango, and both people must be committed to the union. In our case, we never aired our problems in front of our children, because we are responsible adults. What will kids learn? In your scenario they learn to quit when times get tough. They learn that marriage is something that you do until you start arguing and then you get a divorce. They learn that the grass is always greener on the other side. Kids are pretty smart. Again, this is not about TAS. He seems like a good guy, and as a fellow martial artist, I know that he knows about discipline and commitment. Not all marriages can be saved. It seems that he has reached the point of apathy, which is far worse than anger, since it is the absence of emotion. It can be very difficult, perhaps impossible, to come back from that point. Both of your approaches are valid, as long as your partner shares your viewpoint. Personally I think marriage should last, with very few reasons to consider divorce - infidelity and abuse being the main ones. Short term conflict is not enough. But as listen and others have stated, in most failing marriages shared discontent builds over years. When is unhappiness enough to justify divorce? If you remove the religious dogma from the equation, why should we expect love and the partnership to last forever? Commitment is a valuable quality, for sure, but how many other non-familial lifelong bonds do you have? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 540 Posted March 6, 2012 I'm not going to do Google searches from work; God knows where the browser will take me. I stay on safe sites I am familiar with, you focking inbred pile of pig sh!t. Bed bugs find it beneath them to go anywhere near you. Also code for: Uh oh. I was asked for links. No one beleives my bullsh!t, once again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,169 Posted March 6, 2012 Both of your approaches are valid, as long as your partner shares your viewpoint. Personally I think marriage should last, with very few reasons to consider divorce - infidelity and abuse being the main ones. Short term conflict is not enough. But as listen and others have stated, in most failing marriages shared discontent builds over years. When is unhappiness enough to justify divorce? If you remove the religious dogma from the equation, why should we expect love and the partnership to last forever? Commitment is a valuable quality, for sure, but how many other non-familial lifelong bonds do you have? I understand that there are plenty of good reasons to get a divorce. I happen to think "young and stupid" is not that bad of a reason -- our cerebral cortexes aren't fully formed until our mid-20s, and we all did some pretty stupid stuff as teens. Once you have kids though... IMO you've kinda made the choice that you are in it for the long haul. It may not be an absolute, but I think you really need to do everything to try to work it out. Non-familial lifelong bonds for me include my fraternity brothers and the folks I practice taekwondo with. Not as strong as family, but bonds I expect to have for a lifetime. Anyway, I was mostly stricken by listen's "dumbest thing ever" in response to advice to seek counseling. Sorry I came off as a judgmental doosh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted March 6, 2012 Obviously everyone agrees it's probably best for a child to be raised in a single home by 2 happily married parents. I'm unsure that anyone would logically argue against that. The only pertinent debate is "children of divorce" vs "children in unhappy homes where the parents no longer love each other". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mobb_deep 917 Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks for the link. I didn't have a problem with the link. It's your douchecanoe "I know everything, rawr!" attitude. But whatever, this is the geek bored, to be expected I guess. Sorry, this topic just really fires me up. We have an entire generation of children being raised by televisions and the internet, because mommy is too busy trying to keep a household together and daddy is only around to play catch every other weekend. As a result, we're seeing an ever increasing number of young adults that are completely detached from their peers, community and society as a whole (they're labeled "generation ME" for a reason). It takes two people to make a baby because it takes two people to raise a baby. Nature has a beautiful way of simplifying things. While I obviously don't condone abuse or think people should stay together for the "sake of the children", I think people take the commitment of marriage far too lightly today. I understand that there are plenty of good reasons to get a divorce. I happen to think "young and stupid" is not that bad of a reason -- our cerebral cortexes aren't fully formed until our mid-20s, and we all did some pretty stupid stuff as teens. Once you have kids though... IMO you've kinda made the choice that you are in it for the long haul. It may not be an absolute, but I think you really need to do everything to try to work it out. Non-familial lifelong bonds for me include my fraternity brothers and the folks I practice taekwondo with. Not as strong as family, but bonds I expect to have for a lifetime. Anyway, I was mostly stricken by listen's "dumbest thing ever" in response to advice to seek counseling. Sorry I came off as a judgmental doosh. +1 I don't want to pass judgement on anyone. We all love our children and want the best for them. I just struggle to understand how people go from being in love and having children to "irreconcilable differences" a couple years later. Speaking from experience, just adjusting to the new dynamics of the relationship post child took me quite some time. Hell, I'm still adjusting to being #2! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 540 Posted March 6, 2012 The only pertinent debate is "children of divorce" vs "children in unhappy homes where the parents no longer love each other". This guy gets it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillybear 364 Posted March 6, 2012 Also code for: Uh oh. I was asked for links. No one beleives my bullsh!t, once again. I suppose the plentiful links that others were kind enough to provide were not sufficient. Clearly, they would only qualify coming from me. phillybear wins again. phillybear wins again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted March 6, 2012 I understand that there are plenty of good reasons to get a divorce. I happen to think "young and stupid" is not that bad of a reason -- our cerebral cortexes aren't fully formed until our mid-20s, and we all did some pretty stupid stuff as teens. Once you have kids though... IMO you've kinda made the choice that you are in it for the long haul. It may not be an absolute, but I think you really need to do everything to try to work it out. Non-familial lifelong bonds for me include my fraternity brothers and the folks I practice taekwondo with. Not as strong as family, but bonds I expect to have for a lifetime. Anyway, I was mostly stricken by listen's "dumbest thing ever" in response to advice to seek counseling. Sorry I came off as a judgmental doosh. Remember the stat which show ~50% of pregnancies are unplanned? Young and stupid people have kids, too (none of them geeks, of course). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNewGirl 1,020 Posted March 6, 2012 Sorry, this topic just really fires me up. We have an entire generation of children being raised by televisions and the internet, because mommy is too busy trying to keep a household together and daddy is only around to play catch every other weekend. As a result, we're seeing an ever increasing number of young adults that are completely detached from their peers, community and society as a whole (they're labeled "generation ME" for a reason). It takes two people to make a baby because it takes two people to raise a baby. Nature has a beautiful way of simplifying things. While I obviously don't condone abuse or think people should stay together for the "sake of the children", I think people take the commitment of marriage far too lightly today. +1 I don't want to pass judgement on anyone. We all love our children and want the best for them. I just struggle to understand how people go from being in love and having children to "irreconcilable differences" a couple years later. Speaking from experience, just adjusting to the new dynamics of the relationship post child took me quite some time. Hell, I'm still adjusting to being #2! Great post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,534 Posted March 6, 2012 Still don't see any logic that suggests kids are better off going through years of their parents not really caring for each other rather than having 2 happy homes and parents that can get along in the short time they see each other a week. When you have kids you sort of are promising them a happy home more than you are 2 parents staying together in the same house. I don't see how couple being unhappy and out of love for years on end is a "happy" home. I don't see how a divorce makes the kid fatherless or motherless. 2 happy houses with equal time spend isn't a big deal in my eyes. But hey, all you believers in staying together not matter what, have a fun time pretending. As if kids are that dumb and can't tell the difference or tell that you are unhappy. But hey why not try to fool them anyway! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,534 Posted March 6, 2012 I'm not that old and I can remember quite a few kids never wanting to be home because they said their parents always yelled at each other. Or how their mother or father was a in a bad mood because the other pissed them off. I see that as pretty much the unhealthiest thing you can do. Yea, lets make it a home that our kid doesn't even want to home too. While the kid wants to stay as long as he can at his friends houses. Lets do that over separating and having 2 for the most part happy homes. And 2 sets of parents that do things with the kid each week. Not saying divorce is some easy thing to go through. Not saying no one should try once things start going south. But years on end some of you are talking about? That is a waste of life for anyone including their kids. It is ridiculous really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shovelheadt 60 Posted March 6, 2012 Great post. Yep. Holier than thou and condescending, but great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted March 6, 2012 Sorry, this topic just really fires me up. We have an entire generation of children being raised by televisions and the internet, because mommy is too busy trying to keep a household together and daddy is only around to play catch every other weekend. As a result, we're seeing an ever increasing number of young adults that are completely detached from their peers, community and society as a whole (they're labeled "generation ME" for a reason). It takes two people to make a baby because it takes two people to raise a baby. Nature has a beautiful way of simplifying things. While I obviously don't condone abuse or think people should stay together for the "sake of the children", I think people take the commitment of marriage far too lightly today. +1 I don't want to pass judgement on anyone. We all love our children and want the best for them. I just struggle to understand how people go from being in love and having children to "irreconcilable differences" a couple years later. Speaking from experience, just adjusting to the new dynamics of the relationship post child took me quite some time. Hell, I'm still adjusting to being #2! Having children does not necessarily strengthen the love a couple shares, though it certainly increases the stress in their lives. Being #2 might make a bad situation even sh!ttier. Maybe the solution is to remove the TVs and internet, and allow kids to play in the streets (with other kids) like my divorced parents did? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNewGirl 1,020 Posted March 6, 2012 Yep. Holier than thou and condescending, but great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted March 6, 2012 Still don't see any logic that suggests kids are better off going through years of their parents not really caring for each other rather than having 2 happy homes and parents that can get along in the short time they see each other a week. When you have kids you sort of are promising them a happy home more than you are 2 parents staying together in the same house. I don't see how couple being unhappy and out of love for years on end is a "happy" home. I don't see how a divorce makes the kid fatherless or motherless. 2 happy houses with equal time spend isn't a big deal in my eyes. But hey, all you believers in staying together not matter what, have a fun time pretending. As if kids are that dumb and can't tell the difference or tell that you are unhappy. But hey why not try to fool them anyway! I see your point, but you are making a lot of assumptions, too. Divorcees aren't always happier, and parents who do not love each other can still provide a loving home for their children. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNewGirl 1,020 Posted March 6, 2012 I'm not that old and I can remember quite a few kids never wanting to be home because they said their parents always yelled at each other. Or how their mother or father was a in a bad mood because the other pissed them off. I see that as pretty much the unhealthiest thing you can do. Yea, lets make it a home that our kid doesn't even want to home too. While the kid wants to stay as long as he can at his friends houses. Lets do that over separating and having 2 for the most part happy homes. And 2 sets of parents that do things with the kid each week. Not saying divorce is some easy thing to go through. Not saying no one should try once things start going south. But years on end some of you are talking about? That is a waste of life for anyone including their kids. It is ridiculous really. So, kids who have two loving and wonderful parents ALWAYS want to be home? Married parents are ALWAYS in a good mood even when they are happy together? I can think of a few friends who had parents that were together and they were never home, ended up 'moving in' with friends, and doing drugs/drinking, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,302 Posted March 7, 2012 I love how a thread about someone's failing marriage turned into multiple flame wars. Geek Club! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shotsup 830 Posted March 7, 2012 I love how a thread about someone's failing marriage turned into multiple flame wars. Geek Club! They need to get a room - There is a thread about that out there somewhere Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,534 Posted March 7, 2012 I see your point, but you are making a lot of assumptions, too. Divorcees aren't always happier, and parents who do not love each other can still provide a loving home for their children. I am making a lot of assumptions. Not saying divorce is easy at all. But the whole thought of staying together no matter what, even after trying to resolve things, is pretty crazy in my opinion. And staying together "for the kids" isn't really sound logic. I guess it depends how unhappy a couple is. Some may want a divorce over something stupid. Some have been trying to get it right for years. Tons of different situations. But for the couples that have been unhappy for years? I think that is borderline insane and really a waste of life to stay together at all costs. Not trying to say people should be getting divorced the minute something goes wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,169 Posted March 7, 2012 I am making a lot of assumptions. Not saying divorce is easy at all. But the whole thought of staying together no matter what, even after trying to resolve things, is pretty crazy in my opinion. And staying together "for the kids" isn't really sound logic. I guess it depends how unhappy a couple is. Some may want a divorce over something stupid. Some have been trying to get it right for years. Tons of different situations. But for the couples that have been unhappy for years? I think that is borderline insane and really a waste of life to stay together at all costs. Not trying to say people should be getting divorced the minute something goes wrong. Hopefully that isn't what you got from reading my posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAS 2 Posted April 30, 2012 Signed papers this past Saturday. Kids first meeting then judge signs off. (I'm guessing that's how it goes??) On the heels of signing she asks me to pay for my daughters trip to Minnesota...I say " I'll pay half"...if looks could kill! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gocolts 300 Posted April 30, 2012 I am making a lot of assumptions. Not saying divorce is easy at all. But the whole thought of staying together no matter what, even after trying to resolve things, is pretty crazy in my opinion. And staying together "for the kids" isn't really sound logic. I guess it depends how unhappy a couple is. Some may want a divorce over something stupid. Some have been trying to get it right for years. Tons of different situations. But for the couples that have been unhappy for years? I think that is borderline insane and really a waste of life to stay together at all costs. Not trying to say people should be getting divorced the minute something goes wrong. Children from divorce are more likely to commit suicide, become teenage parents themselves, have behavioral problems, drop out of school, end up in prison, do drugs, run away from home, etc... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shovelheadt 60 Posted April 30, 2012 Signed papers this past Saturday. Kids first meeting then judge signs off. (I'm guessing that's how it goes??) On the heels of signing she asks me to pay for my daughters trip to Minnesota...I say " I'll pay half"...if looks could kill! Careful, careful. Just get that thing signed off on, then you can stand your ground. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,169 Posted April 30, 2012 Signed papers this past Saturday. Kids first meeting then judge signs off. (I'm guessing that's how it goes??) On the heels of signing she asks me to pay for my daughters trip to Minnesota...I say " I'll pay half"...if looks could kill! Congrats I guess. Also, sorry if I came off like an ass in my argument with listen2me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,302 Posted April 30, 2012 Careful, careful. Just get that thing signed off on, then you can stand your ground. The correct answer right now is "sure, I'll pay half." The correct answer after a judge signs off on everything is "that's what my child support payments are for" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 540 Posted May 1, 2012 Children from divorce are more likely to commit suicide, become teenage parents themselves, have behavioral problems, drop out of school, end up in prison, do drugs, run away from home, etc... More likely than being in a household where the patents love each other and are happy together. But I bet that isn't the case when compared to children raised in a house where patents aren't in love and no longer get along very well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mookz 1,287 Posted May 1, 2012 More likely than being in a household where the patents love each other and are happy together. But I bet that isn't the case when compared to children raised in a house where patents aren't in love and no longer get along very well. Good point - patents do last longer than most marriages these days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted May 1, 2012 Good point - patents do last longer than most marriages these days. I just submitted a patent for our wedding bands along with one for a perpetual abuse machine, the Geekbot 3000. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted May 1, 2012 More likely than being in a household where the patents love each other and are happy together. But I bet that isn't the case when compared to children raised in a house where patents aren't in love and no longer get along very well. I have to agree with you on this one. While I have not been divorced before, my parents were. It was much better for me to see a healthy relationship rather than a fake one. My wife's parents were married for about 50 years, but they spent 10+ years not sleeping in the same bed and something like 3 years not even speaking with each other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites