How would the all time Baseball greats - DO IN TODAY'S GAME?

[MedStudent 56]

Baseball is a little different from other sports where the players are bigger and stronger. I think hitters would do just as well. Ted Williams was a perfectionist. He studied hitting like a Professor. His swing would work just as well today. I am sure these guys would take advantage of the latest technology if they were playing today and would have worked on their bodies more but the hand eye coordination would still be the same.

[southcarolina 166]

 

 

 

Chronic Husker would be disappointed if I didn't vehemently disagree with this. People aren't "born" with an innate ability to hit a baseball, just like Mozart wasn't born with an innate skill to write masterpiece concertos. It is a skill learned through thousands of hours of deliberate practice. Read "Talent is Overrated."

 

That being said, people ARE born with certain physiological features: height, musculature, flexibility to an extent. So for a physical endeavor, there is a ceiling on any one person's success.

I disagree to this extent. I would venture to say that the overwhelming vast majority of major league baseball position players are born with an innate talent to hit, along with many many others who dont make the majors. The ones who do make the majors are the ones with talent AND the thousands of reps. But the streets are littered with guys who put in thousands of reps and never made it out of high school ball because they didnt have the innate talent. And there are plenty of guys with enormous talent and no work ethic. But show me a guy who was a terrible high school baseball player and then made the majors. I doubt one exists.

 

The innate part is things like eyesight and hand eye coordination. Ted Williams is famous for having 20/10 vision. You cant learn that. I would venture to say that if you tested all the hitters in MLB that their eyesight would be significantly better than a random sampling of "normal" adults. Practice can improve a persons skill level at certain activities, within a certain range. But it wont make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.

[southcarolina 166]

Its all a moot point anyway, since the wave of the future has arrived, and will render all that has gone before obsolete....

 

 

http://s14.directupload.net/images/user/130710/l9llli45.gif

 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Its all a moot point anyway, since the wave of the future has arrived, and will render all that has gone before obsolete....

 

 

http://s14.directupload.net/images/user/130710/l9llli45.gif

 

 

I just saw this and was going to post before I got distracted by some stupid work stuff. Imagine what she could do in the bedroom.

 

 

Me so hoorrrrrrrnnnnneeeeeeee.

[The Moz 69]

 

I think that he would be an All Star Center. I don't think that he would dominate a game like he did when he was playing.

 

 

You must of never really watched any of his old games at at all for you to be this ignorant.

 

the only other player post Kareem is Hakeem. Kareem played at the end of Wilts career ask Kareem who was better... Wilt played the same time as Bill Russell who other than Kareem and Wilt would be the best Center to ever play.

[SUXBNME 1,324]

Skids won this thread.

They would all be average at best.

[The Moz 69]

Skids won this thread.

They would all be average at best.

Don't you have a tranny to work on? and yes unfortunately I mean that in both the garage and your bedroom

[southcarolina 166]

Skids won this thread.

They would all be average at best.

Bullsh*t. I won this thread when i posted the Japanese gumby woman hottie.

[The Moz 69]

Drobeski or Philltbear has yet to post so the thread is yet un-won get it straight!

[southcarolina 166]

Drobeski or Philltbear has yet to post so the thread is yet un-won get it straight!

I just meant i had won it until one of them decided to win it from me. Thats all i meant.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

You must of never really watched any of his old games at at all for you to be this ignorant.

 

the only other player post Kareem is Hakeem. Kareem played at the end of Wilts career ask Kareem who was better... Wilt played the same time as Bill Russell who other than Kareem and Wilt would be the best Center to ever play.

 

I have watched his games and I am a fan. However, I am also pretty intelligent about the game of basketball and the talent pool of big men is far better today than it was back in Wilt's day. The average NBA center today is better than the all-star centers of the 60's. There are more 7 footers with game and athleticism today. It is just a function of more people playing the game.

 

That is akin to saying that Babe Ruth would dominate today because he was that much better than his contemporaries without considering that NO blacks or foreigners were allowed to play?

[jerryskids 5,191]

I disagree to this extent. I would venture to say that the overwhelming vast majority of major league baseball position players are born with an innate talent to hit, along with many many others who dont make the majors. The ones who do make the majors are the ones with talent AND the thousands of reps. But the streets are littered with guys who put in thousands of reps and never made it out of high school ball because they didnt have the innate talent. And there are plenty of guys with enormous talent and no work ethic. But show me a guy who was a terrible high school baseball player and then made the majors. I doubt one exists.

 

The innate part is things like eyesight and hand eye coordination. Ted Williams is famous for having 20/10 vision. You cant learn that. I would venture to say that if you tested all the hitters in MLB that their eyesight would be significantly better than a random sampling of "normal" adults. Practice can improve a persons skill level at certain activities, within a certain range. But it wont make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.

I'm fine with adding eyesight to the physiological features I mentioned earlier. Hand-eye coordination, not so much. A story I may have told here before: a few years ago I was helping coach my daughter's softball team, and the head coach was bemoaning their poor ability to catch flies. I said "we need to hit them 1000 flies. They haven't seen nearly enough of them." He agreed and we did it at every practice from then on. The improvement was enormous. Similar drills are how hitting hand-eye coordination is built.

 

And I didn't say that 1000s of hours are SUFFICIENT for making the bigs. I said it is NECESSARY. At the highest level, the physiological cream will rise to the top.

[edjr 5,556]

 

I just saw this and was going to post before I got distracted by some stupid work stuff. Imagine what she could do in the bedroom.

 

 

Me so hoorrrrrrrnnnnneeeeeeee.

 

 

After the twirl she threw like recliner pilot probably throws

[southcarolina 166]

I'm fine with adding eyesight to the physiological features I mentioned earlier. Hand-eye coordination, not so much. A story I may have told here before: a few years ago I was helping coach my daughter's softball team, and the head coach was bemoaning their poor ability to catch flies. I said "we need to hit them 1000 flies. They haven't seen nearly enough of them." He agreed and we did it at every practice from then on. The improvement was enormous. Similar drills are how hitting hand-eye coordination is built.

 

And I didn't say that 1000s of hours are SUFFICIENT for making the bigs. I said it is NECESSARY. At the highest level, the physiological cream will rise to the top.

Well i think we are both basically saying the same thing, so im not really arguing with you (although i believe that being able to hit a pitched baseball is much much more difficult than catching a fly ball. The worst OFer in MLB will still succeed on 99% of his attempts to catch a fly ball. The best hitter will fail 65% of the time to get a hit.)

 

I dont think using kids as an example really means much when you are talking about major league hitters. Yes huge improvements can be made in short periods of time with kids. Ive been to the same practices you have...the first summer my son played all stars at 7 years old, only a couple of kids on the team could reliably catch fly balls at the beginning. By the end of the summer nearly all of them could. But they werent really improving their hand eye coordination. They were practicing a skill they had never done before.Likely they just learned to judge where a ball was going off the bat, and overcame fear of getting hit by balls that were a hundred feet in the air, more than they improved their actual hand eye coordination. If they had done that, then their hitting would have improved too.

 

Personally i think people vastly underestimate how hard it is to hit a baseball. At the MLB level success vs failure is measured in hundredths of inches and thousandths of seconds. Not everyone has the combination of visual acuity, the ability to process information and make decisions on an almost instantaneous level, the reflexes to turn those decisions into action, and the athletic ability to turn that action into a positive result. You cant learn to do that. You just cant. Not on a level high enough to make it to MLB. Maybe you can do it through high school, and the best of the best can get through college that way. But major league hitters are the upper 1% of the upper 1% of the upper 1%. Its like saying anyone can be a brain surgeon, or anyone can be a pro bodybuilder. I could spend the next year taking 1000 cuts a day in a batting cage, and i would still look foolish against a ML pitcher at the end of that day.

[southcarolina 166]

Also, did i mention my kids team won another LL state championship this week?

 

 

Anyone here live near Spring Hill Tennessee?

[The Moz 69]

 

I have watched his games and I am a fan. However, I am also pretty intelligent about the game of basketball and the talent pool of big men is far better today than it was back in Wilt's day. The average NBA center today is better than the all-star centers of the 60's. There are more 7 footers with game and athleticism today. It is just a function of more people playing the game.

 

That is akin to saying that Babe Ruth would dominate today because he was that much better than his contemporaries without considering that NO blacks or foreigners were allowed to play?

 

Dear God - you really are this ignorant. It it nothing like Saying Ruth would dominate today - though he would be really damn good. Ruth was a hell of a hitter and (could of been a great pitcher) Hitting was pretty much all he brought. Wilt was a once in a 100 years athlete who actually performed up to his potential. I actually view Lebron James as a lesser version of Wilt as far as being a freak athlete goes.

 

Wilt was a Track Star He was a great collegiate High Jumper and I think long jumper , ran marathons well after his career, ran track, crazy body control , a solid jumper, at 7'1 already maybe the best vertical around, at the very least as strong as shaq (at least towards the middle of Wilts career) . Yet to you he would of been just another Hakeem or Ewing? People that played ball in those days did 1 little thing that is totally lost today as well -- they played FUNDAMENTALLY sound ball .

 

 

Please I dare you to name 1 player today that was a better defender than Bill Russell? (Russel's height is anywhere from 6"10 to 7'0 depending on where you read it) Against Russell Wilt averaged 30 and 26. That's against the GOAT - defensive player in Bill Russell. Against any player since he would of destroyed in his prime.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

Dear God - you really are this ignorant. It it nothing like Saying Ruth would dominate today - though he would be really damn good. Ruth was a hell of a hitter and (could of been a great pitcher) Hitting was pretty much all he brought. Wilt was a once in a 100 years athlete who actually performed up to his potential. I actually view Lebron James as a lesser version of Wilt as far as being a freak athlete goes.

 

Wilt was a Track Star He was a great collegiate High Jumper and I think long jumper , ran marathons well after his career, ran track, crazy body control , a solid jumper, at 7'1 already maybe the best vertical around, at the very least as strong as shaq (at least towards the middle of Wilts career) . Yet to you he would of been just another Hakeem or Ewing? People that played ball in those days did 1 little thing that is totally lost today as well -- they played FUNDAMENTALLY sound ball .

 

 

Please I dare you to name 1 player today that was a better defender than Bill Russell? (Russel's height is anywhere from 6"10 to 7'0 depending on where you read it) Against Russell Wilt averaged 30 and 26. That's against the GOAT - defensive player in Bill Russell. Against any player since he would of destroyed in his prime.

Bill Russell was 6' 9". Ignorant.

[jerryskids 5,191]

Well i think we are both basically saying the same thing, so im not really arguing with you (although i believe that being able to hit a pitched baseball is much much more difficult than catching a fly ball. The worst OFer in MLB will still succeed on 99% of his attempts to catch a fly ball. The best hitter will fail 65% of the time to get a hit.)

 

I dont think using kids as an example really means much when you are talking about major league hitters. Yes huge improvements can be made in short periods of time with kids. Ive been to the same practices you have...the first summer my son played all stars at 7 years old, only a couple of kids on the team could reliably catch fly balls at the beginning. By the end of the summer nearly all of them could. But they werent really improving their hand eye coordination. They were practicing a skill they had never done before.Likely they just learned to judge where a ball was going off the bat, and overcame fear of getting hit by balls that were a hundred feet in the air, more than they improved their actual hand eye coordination. If they had done that, then their hitting would have improved too.

 

Personally i think people vastly underestimate how hard it is to hit a baseball. At the MLB level success vs failure is measured in hundredths of inches and thousandths of seconds. Not everyone has the combination of visual acuity, the ability to process information and make decisions on an almost instantaneous level, the reflexes to turn those decisions into action, and the athletic ability to turn that action into a positive result. You cant learn to do that. You just cant. Not on a level high enough to make it to MLB. Maybe you can do it through high school, and the best of the best can get through college that way. But major league hitters are the upper 1% of the upper 1% of the upper 1%. Its like saying anyone can be a brain surgeon, or anyone can be a pro bodybuilder. I could spend the next year taking 1000 cuts a day in a batting cage, and i would still look foolish against a ML pitcher at the end of that day.

I agree that to some extent we are coming to similar conclusions from different angles, but I'm going to nit on the bold points anyway.

 

1. Yes, they were working on hand-eye coordination. I don't see how you can say they weren't.

 

2. Visual acuity: Yes, although if caught early and corrected with glasses this advantage can be overcome.

- Ability to process info: hmm... in my recent consulting gig we tested something similar (wonderlic-like test, some folks here took it) and the company said it was "genetic." I don't necessarily agree with that position though, as I think the ability to process info can be developed/improved, although there may be some genetic ceiling to it as with the other factors.

- Reflexes: Similarly, I think this can be improved over time, with a physiological ceiling.

- Athleticism: Already discussed.

 

I had already said that the physiological cream will rise to the top. That being said, I made it to D3 level and I have no natural athletic gifts -- I'm a 5'11" ectomorph who always struggled to put on muscle, I am the most naturally un-flexible person you will ever meet, and my shins turn out making me duck-footed. Even so, I believe that had I known then what I know now about yoga/flexibility, core strength, etc. I might have made D1. I had a very good arm, and could run fast enough. It would have been solely on my bazillion hours of playing/practicing.

[JTB 52]

I disagree to this extent. I would venture to say that the overwhelming vast majority of major league baseball position players are born with an innate talent to hit, along with many many others who dont make the majors. The ones who do make the majors are the ones with talent AND the thousands of reps. But the streets are littered with guys who put in thousands of reps and never made it out of high school ball because they didnt have the innate talent. And there are plenty of guys with enormous talent and no work ethic. But show me a guy who was a terrible high school baseball player and then made the majors. I doubt one exists.

 

The innate part is things like eyesight and hand eye coordination. Ted Williams is famous for having 20/10 vision. You cant learn that. I would venture to say that if you tested all the hitters in MLB that their eyesight would be significantly better than a random sampling of "normal" adults. Practice can improve a persons skill level at certain activities, within a certain range. But it wont make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t.

 

Strange enough I don't recall seeing many payers wear contacts when I payed. Hmmmmm....

[CantTouchThis 23]

You have to remember wayyy back in the day, Ruth, Gehrig, Johnson, Cobb, Young, ect played against a lot less teams/players and certain folk weren't allowed to play.

 

That's why you can't really compare eras, really in any sport.

 

One thing that has been really blossoming just in recent years is really hard throwing bullpen pitchers. You have guys that come out and throw 97, 98, 100, 102 on every fastball out of the pen. Hitters now have to face 3-4 different pitchers a game with totally different styles of pitching. That is why this post-steroid era is pitching dominated, much deeper bullpens and managers that know how to manage the pens.

 

I think the best hitters would still do well, but not .400, or a 1.300 OPS good, they would have around Cabrera numbers....maybe.

[The Moz 69]

if Ty Cobb we're playing today he would still lead the league in hits and ejections.

 

I will say is the best all around baseball player was Willie Mays. he was the best all around player then and he would be if he played today