*** 2017 NBA draft lottery thread ***

[Reality 2,710]

76ers loading up on elite talents who aren't elite enough to get their teams to the NCAA tournament. Name an top draft pick who didn't win in college that won in the pros

 

Agreed, he seems to have all the tools but, this should definitely be a concern.

[cyclone24 1,811]

76ers loading up on elite talents who aren't elite enough to get their teams to the NCAA tournament. Name an top draft pick who didn't win in college that won in the pros

Harrison barnes.

 

Or do you mean 1st pick?

[cbfalcon 824]

The Sixers have so much talent now with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, and Saric....It's officially time for them to now start trying to get good as fast as possible. They need a hardass coach that will preach structure and discip;ine, then they need to go ahead and fill in around their core 4 with veterans.

 

Looking past this current Cavs group.....The Celtics have depth and are obviously a much better run/coached franchise. But their potential top end talent can't compete with Philadelphia's. So Philly needs to do everything they can to now be as well run/coached as Boston. There is no excuse (besides injury) for the Sixers to not contend for the playoffs this in 2018, be a 5-8 seed in 2019, be a Finals contender in 20, and then be a title contender for the next few years after.

[MDC 5,890]

Sixers have loads of young talent but just look at the TWolves, everyone's consensus "surprise" playoff team in the west. Teams with youth across the board take time to gel.

 

Philly can absolutely make the playoffs this year but that's all contingent in Embiid staying healthy or 50+ games. They were a playoff team by record with him on the court last year.

 

SG and a backup big who can play some center are big needs now. It will be interesting to see how they approach FA and their 5 second round picks in this draft.

[cbfalcon 824]

Sixers have loads of young talent but just look at the TWolves, everyone's consensus "surprise" playoff team in the west. Teams with youth across the board take time to gel.

 

Philly can absolutely make the playoffs this year but that's all contingent in Embiid staying healthy or 50+ games. They were a playoff team by record with him on the court last year.

 

SG and a backup big who can play some center are big needs now. It will be interesting to see how they approach FA and their 5 second round picks in this draft.

 

It's a decent comparison, but the Sixers talent is more generational in my opinion.This is just me spit balling as a die hard Mavs fan that knows a lot about my team, the stars in the league, and only has casual knowledge of everyone else...

 

- Wiggins and Fultz probably compare prospect wise. Both should be great, but neither are transcendent in terms of #1 overall picks. If we took the last 20 #1 picks, neither would rank in the top 10 in terms of can't miss hype relative to when drafted.

- Towns and Embiid are comparable. I'd rather have Towns 10 out of 10 times, but I think there are others that probably think Embiid can be as good or better if he stays healthy.

- Maybe we can compare LaVine and Saric on a tier level. Both went near end of lottery. Both likely project as #3 options on a modern title team.

 

But that leaves the one thing The Sixers have that Minnesota doesn't. Ben Simmons was probably the most hyped high school player since Lebron. In fact, that's his most common player comp along with Magic Johnson. And that alone means a world of difference obviously......It does seem like these 2 teams have the assets to compete with GS in 2-3 years though if they were just managed/coached better.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

 

Damian Lillard

Klay Thompson

Paul George

Paul Millsap

Chris Bosh

Mychal Thompson

Pete Maravich

Walt Bellamy

Sorry but I think this list further illustrates his point.

 

What have Lillard (one of my favs), geroge or millsap won? What did bosh win before becoming the 3rd wheel on miami?

 

Klay won. And ofcourse Pete but not a great list to disprove what he's saying

[MDC 5,890]

Sorry but I think this list further illustrates his point.

 

What have Lillard (one of my favs), geroge or millsap won? What did bosh win before becoming the 3rd wheel on miami?

 

Klay won. And ofcourse Pete but not a great list to disprove what he's saying

What about all the players from winning programs in college who bust in the NBA. Did they forget how to win?

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

What about all the players from winning programs in college who bust in the NBA. Did they forget how to win?

No I wasn't actually agreeing or disagreeing with the idea. I was simply commenting on that list and it'd ability to disprove the notion

[MDC 5,890]

No I wasn't actually agreeing or disagreeing with the idea. I was simply commenting on that list and it'd ability to disprove the notion

 

The argument is skewed from the beginning by virtue of the fact that most elite college prospects are going to play for programs that are going to win with or without their help anyway. If players winning in college was a function of their "knowing" how to win you wouldn't see so many high profile NBA busts coming out of places like Duke.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

The argument is skewed from the beginning by virtue of the fact that most elite college prospects are going to play for programs that are going to win with or without their help anyway. If players winning in college was a function of their "knowing" how to win you wouldn't see so many high profile NBA busts coming out of places like Duke.

 

I think that you are missing the point as to why people question whether Fultz will be any good. If you look back at the players that came from teams that were not perennial winners who had good NBA players on their team, those teams won.

 

Larry Bird took Indiana State to the Finals

David Robinson - Navy

Dwayne Wade - Marquette

Steph Curry - Davidson

 

Granted that Fultz' team had some key losses of talent, but they won 9 games in a weak Pac-10. How many guys taken in the top 10, who turned out to be great players came from programs that could not even get to .500? It is legitimate to ask whether this is a player worthy of a #1 overall pick given his overall lack of experience and his ability to lead a team to wins.

 

You mentioned Shaq, but LSU won 20 games per year.

[MDC 5,890]

 

I think that you are missing the point as to why people question whether Fultz will be any good. If you look back at the players that came from teams that were not perennial winners who had good NBA players on their team, those teams won.

 

Larry Bird took Indiana State to the Finals

David Robinson - Navy

Dwayne Wade - Marquette

Steph Curry - Davidson

 

Granted that Fultz' team had some key losses of talent, but they won 9 games in a weak Pac-10. How many guys taken in the top 10, who turned out to be great players came from programs that could not even get to .500? It is legitimate to ask whether this is a player worthy of a #1 overall pick given his overall lack of experience and his ability to lead a team to wins.

 

You mentioned Shaq, but LSU won 20 games per year.

 

I know this will get written off as a 76er fan making excuses, but I think this is a silly argument.

 

Fultz averaged 26 PPG, shot 50% from the field and 41% from 3, and had the second best assist % in college basketball next to Ball. Washington won 9 games because they were a bad overall team, not because Fultz didn't do enough.

 

There are holes in his game. His FT% was below average and he's not an elite athlete or strong defender. He could be the next Dwayne Wade or he could just be D'Angelo Russell.

 

I'm just not buying this "understands how to win" business. If this mattered at all Jahlil Okafor wouldn't be such a massive NBA bust.

[KSB2424 3,082]

Lots of rumors out there..........

 

Knicks dangling Porzingas

 

Jimmy Butler to the Cavs

 

Paul George one year loaner this year then off to L.A.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

I know this will get written off as a 76er fan making excuses, but I think this is a silly argument.

 

Fultz averaged 26 PPG, shot 50% from the field and 41% from 3, and had the second best assist % in college basketball next to Ball. Washington won 9 games because they were a bad overall team, not because Fultz didn't do enough.

 

There are holes in his game. His FT% was below average and he's not an elite athlete or strong defender. He could be the next Dwayne Wade or he could just be D'Angelo Russell.

 

I'm just not buying this "understands how to win" business. If this mattered at all Jahlil Okafor wouldn't be such a massive NBA bust.

Here is the thing. You must be looking at it with homer glasses.

- He did not average 26ppg. Only 23.2.

- He did not shoot 50% from the field. Only 47.6%

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1/gamelog/2017/

 

His Pac 12 conference stats are okay, but you have to see where people are really queasy about him as a #1 overall pick and franchise player.

- 45% FG

- 38% 3pt FG

- 5.5 apg vs. 3.5 topg

 

Again, it is not a question of whether he "understands how to win". It is whether he has what it takes to take a lesser team and make them winners.

 

ETA: not sure where you get your assist percentage leaders from, but this shows he is not even top 10

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2017-leaders.html

[Herbivore 905]

 

Here is the thing. You must be looking at it with homer glasses.

- He did not average 26ppg. Only 23.2.

- He did not shoot 50% from the field. Only 47.6%

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1/gamelog/2017/

 

His Pac 12 conference stats are okay, but you have to see where people are really queasy about him as a #1 overall pick and franchise player.

- 45% FG

- 38% 3pt FG

- 5.5 apg vs. 3.5 topg

 

Again, it is not a question of whether he "understands how to win". It is whether he has what it takes to take a lesser team and make them winners.

 

ETA: not sure where you get your assist percentage leaders from, but this shows he is not even top 10

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2017-leaders.html

 

26 and 50% are draft express #'s

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

26 and 50% are draft express #'s

 

Draft express shows 23.2 ppg and the 50% is for 2pt FG's. To compare, you have to use the combined FG%.

[MDC 5,890]

 

Here is the thing. You must be looking at it with homer glasses.

- He did not average 26ppg. Only 23.2.

- He did not shoot 50% from the field. Only 47.6%

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1/gamelog/2017/

 

His Pac 12 conference stats are okay, but you have to see where people are really queasy about him as a #1 overall pick and franchise player.

- 45% FG

- 38% 3pt FG

- 5.5 apg vs. 3.5 topg

 

Again, it is not a question of whether he "understands how to win". It is whether he has what it takes to take a lesser team and make them winners.

 

Scuse me - I meant 26 PP 40. You are correct: 47.6% from the field and 41.3%. Both are really good as is Fultz's assist %.

 

Fultz's ability to make a bad team better will depend entirely on his own performance and development. If he put up a bunch of inefficient counting stats on a bad college team I'd consider that a major red flag but he scored an efficient 23 PPG, shot the ball well and got his teammates involved.

 

I'll ask it again: If a player's college record is indicative of whether he can turn a lesser NBA team into winners, why are there so many counter examples? Anthony Davis won an NCAA championship in college and can't get the Pelicans into the playoffs in the West. Okafor won a national championship at Duke and he's not even a starter in the NBA. I could go on and on.

 

I'd focus on the legitimate question marks in Fultz' game like his athleticism and defense, not this nebulous stuff. Fans love this grit, heart, winning culture etc. stuff but for the most part it's all about talent and fit.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

Scuse me - I meant 26 PP 40. You are correct: 47.6% from the field and 41.3%. Both are really good as is Fultz's assist %.

 

Fultz's ability to make a bad team better will depend entirely on his own performance and development. If he put up a bunch of inefficient counting stats on a bad college team I'd consider that a major red flag but he scored an efficient 23 PPG, shot the ball well and got his teammates involved.

 

I'll ask it again: If a player's college record is indicative of whether he can turn a lesser NBA team into winners, why are there so many counter examples? Anthony Davis won an NCAA championship in college and can't get the Pelicans into the playoffs in the West. Okafor won a national championship at Duke and he's not even a starter in the NBA. I could go on and on.

 

I'd focus on the legitimate question marks in Fultz' game like his athleticism and defense, not this nebulous stuff. Fans love this grit, heart, winning culture etc. stuff but for the most part it's all about talent and fit.

 

A player's college record is not indicative of whether he can turn a lesser NBA team into winners. The issue is, if he can't even take a lesser NCAA team to be .500 (against far weaker competition), how can you expect him to be a leader worthy of the #1 overall pick?

 

Remember, this is a kid with 25 college games on his resume. 4 years ago, he was getting cut from his varsity high school team as a sophomore. There are huge questions with this kid. I wish him luck because he seems like a good kid with a desire to prove some folks wrong, but I see him as a big risk at that slot.

[MDC 5,890]

 

A player's college record is not indicative of whether he can turn a lesser NBA team into winners. The issue is, if he can't even take a lesser NCAA team to be .500 (against far weaker competition), how can you expect him to be a leader worthy of the #1 overall pick?

 

Remember, this is a kid with 25 college games on his resume. 4 years ago, he was getting cut from his varsity high school team as a sophomore. There are huge questions with this kid. I wish him luck because he seems like a good kid with a desire to prove some folks wrong, but I see him as a big risk at that slot.

 

If a player's college record is not a good indicator of NBA success, why are you so hung up on the fact that Washington won 9 games despite Fultz having a great season?

 

Every prospect has question marks. Lonzo has a weird release and a weirder dad, Jackson can't shoot and has multiple off-court incidents, Fox can't shoot, etc.

 

Fultz is the consensus top player this year because he has a higher floor and fewer red flags than anyone else. If you don't believe me, just pull up some threads about him on the Celtics subreddit from last week.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Local beat writer has Dennis Smith going to the Mavs.. Any chance he falls that far?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

 

If a player's college record is not a good indicator of NBA success, why are you so hung up on the fact that Washington won 9 games despite Fultz having a great season?

 

Every prospect has question marks. Lonzo has a weird release and a weirder dad, Jackson can't shoot and has multiple off-court incidents, Fox can't shoot, etc.

 

Fultz is the consensus top player this year because he has a higher floor and fewer red flags than anyone else. If you don't believe me, just pull up some threads about him on the Celtics subreddit from last week.

You don't follow logic well. The record part is not a qualifier, but it can be a disqualifier.

 

For example, saying someone has to have a HS diploma is not a qualifier for whether you will be a good secretary or coffee getter. However, not having a HS diploma can be a disqualifier. Got it?

[MDC 5,890]

You don't follow logic well.

It is hard to follow when you keep changing your position and can't make a coherent point.

[NewbieJr 540]

Are we really arguing that Fultz might suck in the pros because Washington had a terrible team? Lol. Thank God no one here is getting paid to be a pro basketball Scout. Oye ve

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

It is hard to follow when you keep changing your position and can't make a coherent point.

My point is very consistent. His lack of winning in college is a big red flag. The question of whether there has been a great NBA player who played losing ball in college has still not been answered.

[NewbieJr 540]

My point is very consistent. His lack of winning in college is a big red flag. The question of whether there has been a great NBA player who played losing ball in college has still not been answered.

dude you're way better than this. This is quite possibly the dumbest measure of an athlete that I've ever heard. LOL. I love a good troll job as much as the next guy. But come on. This is just awful.

[MDC 5,890]

My point is very consistent. His lack of winning in college is a big red flag. The question of whether there has been a great NBA player who played losing ball in college has still not been answered.

It's been answered to death and it was a stupid focking question to begin with.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

dude you're way better than this. This is quite possibly the dumbest measure of an athlete that I've ever heard. LOL. I love a good troll job as much as the next guy. But come on. This is just awful.

Not a troll. Look it up. It is a legit question. Happens when colleges recruit high school kids too.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

It's been answered to death and it was a stupid focking question to begin with.

You listed Shaq, whose teams won 20+ games.

[MDC 5,890]

You listed Shaq, whose teams won 20+ games.

I actually didn't list Shaq. I listed Paul George.

[NewbieJr 540]

Not a troll. Look it up. It is a legit question. Happens when colleges recruit high school kids too.

yeah, I know that Kobe and LeBron have had a lot of trouble in their careers having any success on the NBA level.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

yeah, I know that Kobe and LeBron have had a lot of trouble in their careers having any success on the NBA level.

They didn't play college, so they didn't have a chance to have a 9 win season.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,569]

Lakers just gave away a young PG potential star no 2 pick overall for one of the softest centers in the league

 

looks like Ball is the clear no 2 now

[Reality 2,710]

yeah, I know that Kobe and LeBron have had a lot of trouble in their careers having any success on the NBA level.

This is next level stupid, well done.

[MDC 5,890]

Wow. Well, this probably makes the Lakers better in the short term which helps the Sixers. I am surprised they gave up on Russel so fast but his approach / mental makeup seemed a little weak.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Lakers just gave away a young PG potential star no 2 pick overall for one of the softest centers in the league

 

looks like Ball is the clear no 2 now

 

As a Nets fan I am pissed off by this trade. Brook Lopez can stretch the floor as well as any big man which is paramount in today's NBA. He hasn't had injury issues for a while and he is a very good shot blocker. Could he be a better defender? absolutely. Better rebounder? yes but my hope was for the Nets to acquire a defensive minded rebounding power forward either via the draft or free agency. Brook is also a great locker room guy.

 

I am not a Russell fan at all.

 

This is the first deal Sean Marks has done that I have not been a fan of.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

I think that you are missing the point as to why people question whether Fultz will be any good. If you look back at the players that came from teams that were not perennial winners who had good NBA players on their team, those teams won.

 

Larry Bird took Indiana State to the Finals

David Robinson - Navy

Dwayne Wade - Marquette

Steph Curry - Davidson

 

Granted that Fultz' team had some key losses of talent, but they won 9 games in a weak Pac-10. How many guys taken in the top 10, who turned out to be great players came from programs that could not even get to .500? It is legitimate to ask whether this is a player worthy of a #1 overall pick given his overall lack of experience and his ability to lead a team to wins.

 

You mentioned Shaq, but LSU won 20 games per year.

I think Jay Cutlers best Vandy team won 3 games. High draft pick, all the pedigree and measurables you could ask for. Couldn't win in the pros

[DankNuggs 305]

 

As a Nets fan I am pissed off by this trade. Brook Lopez can stretch the floor as well as any big man which is paramount in today's NBA. He hasn't had injury issues for a while and he is a very good shot blocker. Could he be a better defender? absolutely. Better rebounder? yes but my hope was for the Nets to acquire a defensive minded rebounding power forward either via the draft or free agency. Brook is also a great locker room guy.

 

I am not a Russell fan at all.

 

This is the first deal Sean Marks has done that I have not been a fan of.

Brook is 29, he will be in his mid 30s before Brooklyn is relevant. They got two young guys, gave up a nothing late 1st draft pick. They got more long term talent than they gave up. Not a horrible deal

[giraldi02 470]

Lakers are going head first to next summer. Might be able to offer two max contracts.

 

They better be able to recruit well though.

[MDC 5,890]

Lakers are going head first to next summer. Might be able to offer two max contracts.

 

They better be able to recruit well though.

I would say they're gearing up to trade for PG but they have almost nothing to offer. Being the Lakers though they will probably overpay or some middling free agents.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I would say they're gearing up to trade for PG but they have almost nothing to offer. Being the Lakers though they will probably overpay or some middling free agents.

Why would the Lakers go for George now? They are still irrelevant for 2017-2018. They take some expiring contracts and wait until next offseason to sign him as a FA. Maybe make a run at another stud as well. Sometimes you need some patience.

[cyclone24 1,811]

Dwight howard traded to charlotte for basically a bunch of nobodies.

 

God hes a cancer