Mike Honcho 3,939 Posted May 9, 2018 HuffPo Feel free to skip the first 3 paragraphs on Gina Haspel confirmation and go to the stories from the guys who went through it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted May 9, 2018 And ? Are we supposed to feel bad for terrorists now ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozenbeernuts 1,652 Posted May 9, 2018 And ? Are we supposed to feel bad for terrorists now ? Anyone who is an actual terrorist? No. The issue with torture is that it leads to misinformation. Whatever will stop the torture from happening. Plus the issue of innocent people being tortured. Might as well agree that people should just be thrown in prison in the states if they are suspected of doing something illegal 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 3,884 Posted May 9, 2018 Anyone who is an actual terrorist? No. The issue with torture is that it leads to misinformation. Whatever will stop the torture from happening. Plus the issue of innocent people being tortured. Might as well agree that people should just be thrown in prison in the states if they are suspected of doing something illegal Big difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozenbeernuts 1,652 Posted May 9, 2018 Big difference. Sure there is. I'm sure every single person detained and water boarded were guilty bomb strapping jihadists. Even military personnel who had been water boarded agreed it shouldn't be used. If someone is found guilty of terrorism with clear evidence, torture away Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,894 Posted May 9, 2018 Works well on my kids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted May 9, 2018 And?We shouldnt be in the business of torture and Hasoel should be nowhere near this position in our country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted May 9, 2018 And ? Are we supposed to feel bad for terrorists now ? We should not be using such tactics that make us more like the countries you all comolain about as we should be above that and,oh yeah, it leads to unreliable information. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,894 Posted May 9, 2018 We should not be using such tactics that make us more like the countries you all comolain about as we should be above that and,oh yeah, it leads to unreliable information. So what leads to obtaining reliable information? Genuine question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,444 Posted May 9, 2018 So what leads to obtaining reliable information? Genuine question. No sorry, that won't work Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted May 9, 2018 So what leads to obtaining reliable information? Genuine question. Id have to research more on the counter side. I just k ow what Ive read by those involved have said over and over about torture including our veterans who had been tortured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam90sbaby 2,079 Posted May 9, 2018 Id have to research more on the counter side. I just k ow what Ive read by those involved have said over and over about torture including our veterans who had been tortured. God you are such a hack... "I don't have an alternative I just know this is bad because someone told me so." for focks sake. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted May 9, 2018 God you are such a hack... "I don't have an alternative I just know this is bad because someone told me so." for focks sake. Ive read things in the past and dont have the time atm to pull them up (about to leave to watch my sons soccer team play another playoff game).Not just because someone...but experts and counterintelligence people and veterans who have been tortured. In my past researching the topic it appeared to be a majority of such people were opposed to torture. And you calling anyone a hack when you offer zero is focking hilarious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
porkbutt 860 Posted May 9, 2018 So what leads to obtaining reliable information? Genuine question. an hour in a safe space talking about their feelings with soft nature sounds playing. gender specific pronouns not allowed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LOD01 181 Posted May 9, 2018 They are terrorists.... fock 'em., “You’ve got water in your lungs, your brain is on fire, your nasal cavity is on fire, your throat is completely swollen up,” a former Army interrogator said. Sounds just like something they deserve regardless of whether the intel is good or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,518 Posted May 9, 2018 So what leads to obtaining reliable information? Genuine question. hugs and money. the Obama method Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,894 Posted May 9, 2018 I look at it like this. If we have a known terrorist in our possession, we give them 3 options: 1) Bullet to the head 2) Provide us intel and as long as it's good, you live 3) We'll torture you until you provide us intel. If it's good, you live. If you don't give us intel, we'll continue torturing you or you can choose option 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,617 Posted May 9, 2018 Answer the question, I think it was bilali, though I'd have to go back and look it up. Anywho, we snatch somebody from from Afghanistan and brought them to cat's eye in Thailand. Cat's eye is the location that Gina haspel was running. The FBI treated this guy like a human being. Treated his wounds, gave him food and water and the guy sang like a canary. But Cheney heard about it and immediately sent the CIA, AKA Mitchell, who ended up being the most worthless ###### on the planet but we paid them $180m. They got absolutely no actual intel. So, there you go. Same person, two different tactics, two different results. If you go back and watch or read the transcripts from the Senate hearings on enhanced interrogation, it boiled down to the fact that any intel we got from torture ended up being worthless. Like when one of the guys made up a whole story about black terrorists in Montana. We paid Mitchell jessen a small fortune. Basically turn the entire state of Montana upside down for any sort of black people. And, it turns out that the guy admitted that he just needed the torturer to stop for a while. There's a reason why the guys who actually have been tortured can tell you with authority that it doesn't lead to Reliable or actionable Intel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,617 Posted May 9, 2018 Speaking of which, I almost threw my coffee cup through the television today. Only saw about five minutes of the whole hearing. And the part that I did see was Finestein saying something like so as I understand it there are 92 terrorist who were tortured? No you idiot. There are 92 hours of tapes that were destroyed by Gina haspel. Big difference. You think seeing as how your staff does this for a living you could get it right? Seeing as how I don't and I did. Every time I watch Congressional hearings, even the baseball hearings, I end up being borderline cardiac. Just shows how stupid these people really are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EternalShinyAndChrome 2,429 Posted May 9, 2018 God you are such a hack... "I don't have an alternative I just know this is bad because someone told me so." for focks sake. It's what he does. Slotard's shtick is basically to come into every thread and deny reality - exactly what his DNC Plantation masters want him to say to divert, distract, confuse and throw up smoke screens so the truth doesn't get out. Dude can't think for himself - he needs others to do it for him. You should pity his poor, pathetic soul. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,403 Posted May 9, 2018 Torture away. Don't get caught, and definetly don't brag about it like that moron Cheney. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 9, 2018 torture ok if the suspect is American citizen ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,518 Posted May 9, 2018 torture ok if the suspect is American citizen ? you mean a treasonous citizen? yep Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,894 Posted May 9, 2018 torture ok if the suspect is American citizen ? American Citizen that is a terrorist? I will say yes, but can be persuaded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Hand 482 Posted May 9, 2018 It's what he does. Slotard's shtick is basically to come into every thread and deny reality - exactly what his DNC Plantation masters want him to say to divert, distract, confuse and throw up smoke screens so the truth doesn't get out. Dude can't think for himself - he needs others to do it for him. You should pity his poor, pathetic soul. He isn’t well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 9, 2018 you mean a treasonous citizen? yep without trial? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,403 Posted May 9, 2018 without trial? You're going to have a trial and then torture him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,518 Posted May 9, 2018 without trial? yep an American who leaves this country and joins ISIS or the likes should already have his American citizenship removed. WITHOUT TRIAL. He is now an enemy of the state and therefore not protected by the constitution Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 9, 2018 yep an American who leaves this country and joins ISIS or the likes should already have his American citizenship removed. WITHOUT TRIAL. He is now an enemy of the state and therefore not protected by the constitution And if said person denies they left the country to join said enemy states they should not be given their right under the CONSTITUTION to face his accusers? Sounds like you do not believe in the values our founding fathers based this country on Raider. Sounds like you would like an all powerful government to make these decisions. Interesting take for a supposed defender of FREEDOM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 719 Posted May 9, 2018 They are terrorists.... fock 'em., Youve got water in your lungs, your brain is on fire, your nasal cavity is on fire, your throat is completely swollen up, a former Army interrogator said. Sounds just like something they deserve regardless of whether the intel is good or not. And then we get to say nothjng when countries are doing the same to our guys. Pathetic attitude Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted May 9, 2018 The big reason to not torture is that torture is a notoriously unreliable form of interrogation. The person being tortured will say anything to make the torturer stop, and you end up wasting time chasing down bad leads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,518 Posted May 9, 2018 And if said person denies they left the country to join said enemy states they should not be given their right under the CONSTITUTION to face his accusers? Sounds like you do not believe in the values our founding fathers based this country on Raider. Sounds like you would like an all powerful government to make these decisions. Interesting take for a supposed defender of FREEDOM obviously this would not just be an easy claim, but with proof and court martial via the military I have no issue in the military making these decisions. Ala Benedict Arnold Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 9, 2018 obviously this would not just be an easy claim, but with proof and court martial via the military I have no issue in the military making these decisions. Ala Benedict Arnold completely un-american thank you for outing yourself as somebody who would trust the military to decide on torturing of american citizens as they see fit very telling and scary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted May 10, 2018 completely un-american thank you for outing yourself as somebody who would trust the military to decide on torturing of american citizens as they see fit very telling and scary willing to let Americans, women,children and men, fellow citizens die horrific deaths over the hurt feelings of terrorists is much much more un American, very telling and actually kind of sick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted May 10, 2018 willing to let Americans, women,children and men, fellow citizens die horrific deaths over the hurt feelings of terrorists is much much more un American, very telling and actually kind of sick. I believe in the 6th amendment and dont believe in the military's right to torture an american citizen at their whim Not surprised that we would get some of these right wing patriots in there defending violating the constitution sad 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,617 Posted May 10, 2018 Even though all this is largely academic, the problem is kids, who is a terrorist? There are multiple instances where a rival lover, a rival land owner, Etc has simply turned in their rival to the CIA and by the way got a nice little bonus for doing so. The dude that gets ratted out immediately gets an all-expense-paid trip to gitmo or Poland or Czech Republic or Thailand Etc. Then the torture begins. What's missing here? Pretty much absolutely no vetting whatsoever. There sure as hell wasn't vetting going on in the field. And by the time they're in a torture facility, Well they ain't there for the onion rings. By the time they figure out a guy isn't diddly . It may have been 3 5 7 9 years. And yeah, some of these guys who weren't terrorist before? As soon as we drop their tortured ass back in country you can bet they picked up weapons against us. And who the fuk would blame them? Long before we get to the conversation of whether torture is acceptable or not. We should have figured out what the process was for figuring out who gets tortured in the first place. And in our Zeal and earnestness, we did not. Honest to God, in a sick twisted way, it's a little bit like the old Salem Witch Trials skit. Well we tortured him for 5 years and he didn't have any information! Great! He's not a terrorist! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Hand 482 Posted May 10, 2018 Even though all this is largely academic, the problem is kids, who is a terrorist? There are multiple instances where a rival lover, a rival land owner, Etc has simply turned in their rival to the CIA and by the way got a nice little bonus for doing so. The dude that gets ratted out immediately gets an all-expense-paid trip to gitmo or Poland or Czech Republic or Thailand Etc. Then the torture begins. What's missing here? Pretty much absolutely no vetting whatsoever. There sure as hell wasn't vetting going on in the field. And by the time they're in a torture facility, Well they ain't there for the onion rings. By the time they figure out a guy isn't diddly ######. It may have been 3 5 7 9 years. And yeah, some of these guys who weren't terrorist before? As soon as we drop their tortured ass back in country you can bet they picked up weapons against us. And who the fuk would blame them? Long before we get to the conversation of whether torture is acceptable or not. We should have figured out what the process was for figuring out who gets tortured in the first place. And in our Zeal and earnestness, we did not. Honest to God, in a sick twisted way, it's a little bit like the old Salem Witch Trials skit. Well we tortured him for 5 years and he didn't have any information! Great! He's not a terrorist! You are a messed up dude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LOD01 181 Posted May 10, 2018 The good thing is that we are still doing it to terrorists. You just don't hear about it now. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites