NFL - Class of 2018 HOF - semifinalists were announced Tuesday night

[edjr 5,563]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/22/pro-football-hall-fame-2018-voting-nfl-randy-moss-ray-lewis-peter-king-mmqb

 

 

 

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2018 semifinalists were announced Tuesday night, and I can make this prediction: It’s going to be a year of big stars and big controversy.

The class of 27 semifinalists will be whittled to 15 in a vote by the 48 Hall of Fame selectors in the coming weeks. Of those 15, a maximum of five modern-era players and coaches can be enshrined when the Hall’s Class of 2018 is voted on in Minneapolis on Feb. 3.

The headlines from the release of 27 modern-era finalists:

• Ray Lewis and Randy Moss look like locks for election in 2018. There are no others. Lewis is easy. Some of you will say, Why is Moss a lock and Terrell Owens behind him? I’ll give you my thought—and keep in mind I’m just one voter of the 48 on the Hall panel. Randy Moss is the most consistently electric downfield threat in this wideout-dominating era of pro football. He’ll rightfully get dinged for occasionally dogging it, which is indefensible. But his talent over 14 seasons, and his 166 receiving TDs (regular season and playoffs), are undeniable. His 23-TD season with Tom Brady in 2007 may be the greatest season a wide receiver ever had. I have voted for Owens in the past, and will likely vote for him on the cut from 15 to 10. I think he belongs in the Hall, despite his disruptive team traits. I just like Moss more.

• Knocking on the door … I think an offensive lineman from a quality group will make it, particularly after Terrell Davis with his short career made it last year. Tony Boselli was as good at his position as Davis, and he was as good two years longer. Guard Steve Hutchinson (five-time first-team all-pro in 12 years) has a good shot too, as does guard Alan Faneca. Linebacker Brian Urlacher, Owens, cornerbacks Ty Law and Ronde Barber, safeties Brian Dawkins and John Lynch. I’ve named 11 players in these two paragraphs, and only five can make it.

• No quarterbacks on the list. Only two modern-era passers (Brett Favre, Kurt Warner) have made the Hall in the past 11 years. It could be that the next three classes will be quarterback-free as well. Odds are that the next quarterback, Peyton Manning, will be enshrined in his first year eligible, 2021. Bypassed this year in his final year of modern-era eligibility: Phil Simms.

• Defensive backs get their due. The Hall has long been light on safeties, and there will be four of them (new: LeRoy Butler) and three corners bidding for a spot in the final 15. Everson Walls is a compelling candidate in his final year of modern-era eligibility. He’s the only cornerback in history to lead the NFL in interceptions three times; he’s got more picks than Deion Sanders and Darrell Green. Ty Law, who could be a big riser this year, and first-timer Barber should be locks for the final 15.

• I’ve long felt we need to hear new cases in the voting room, and I’m rooting for at least one of the four new semifinalists to make it. Walls, most notably. But Butler had an exemplary career, as did the other two newbies, pass-rushers Leslie O’Neal and Simeon Rice. The way the system works—the 15 finalists have their candidacies debated in the room, and the list is cut down to 10, and then to five, and the 48 voters vote yea or nay on those five. So if you aren’t one of the 15, you’re out of luck; your case doesn’t get debated. This is the first time for these four players, and it may be their last. Justice would be one or more making the final 15. O’Neil and Rice, though, could cancel each out. Each had dominant seven-year stretches of play a decade apart: O’Neal with 86 sacks, and Rice with 91.5. With such competition for the final 15, how do you choose one over the other?

 

 

 

 

Ray Ray, Moss and Tony Boselli

 

Urlacher was overrated to me.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/22/pro-football-hall-fame-2018-voting-nfl-randy-moss-ray-lewis-peter-king-mmqb

 

 

 

 

Ray Ray, Moss and Tony Boselli

 

Urlacher was overrated to me.

 

I hope they make murdering Ray wait for a year.

[edjr 5,563]

 

I hope they make murdering Ray wait for a year.

 

agreed, but not a chance. He's beloved by most.

 

I never watch these things or listen to any of the speeches. I think Ricky Henderson was the last one I watched.

 

Might be worth it to listen to ray mumble incoherently and embarrass himself

[Mungwater 588]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/22/pro-football-hall-fame-2018-voting-nfl-randy-moss-ray-lewis-peter-king-mmqb

 

 

 

 

 

Ray Ray, Moss and Tony Boselli

 

Urlacher was overrated to me.

Dude averaged over 100 tackles a season for a career even though one season he only played one game, how can that be overrated?

[edjr 5,563]

Dude averaged over 100 tackles a season for a career even though one season he only played one game, how can that be overrated?

 

Tackles aren't really impressive

[Mungwater 588]

 

Tackles aren't really impressive

If those 33 do it for 13 seasons, they're in the conversation.

[edjr 5,563]

If those 33 do it for 13 seasons, they're in the conversation.

 

NFL doesn't even keep track of tackles.

 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/

 

 

That's how little it matters

[Reality 2,710]

Get TO in and get passed it, absurd that he isn't already in.

 

I can't stand Lewis but, in no way shape or form was he overrated.

 

TO, Moss, Lewis, Urlacher, & Steve Hutchinson.

[wiffleball 4,640]

Yeah boy that Tony Boselli was sure a stand-up player when he was drafted by the Texans in the expansion draft.

[drobeski 3,061]

Any giants ?

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

NFL doesn't even keep track of tackles.

 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/

 

 

That's how little it matters

Wtf?

 

Sacks and picks are great for fantasy and celebration purposes, but tackles matter more than both.

 

Urlacher was without a doubt a great linebacker and deserves the HOF.

[edjr 5,563]

Wtf?

 

Sacks and picks are great for fantasy and celebration purposes, but tackles matter more than both.

 

Urlacher was without a doubt a great linebacker and deserves the HOF.

 

Why can't I find tackle stats anywhere?

 

Wanted to compare players.

 

So odd that stat isn;t kept track of

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

Why can't I find tackle stats anywhere?

 

Wanted to compare players.

 

So odd that stat isn;t kept track of

Stop your nonsense.

 

The game is about more than your nerdy stats.

[edjr 5,563]

Stop your nonsense.

 

The game is about more than your nerdy stats.

 

 

 

These are the reasons some think Urlacher is overrated:

- He needs to be shielded by defensive tackles who can keep offensive linemen off him. In 2001, Urlacher's second season, wide bodies Ted Washington and Keith Traylor were the defensive tackles.

The Bears went 13-3, made their only playoff appearance since 1994 and Urlacher was "all-world," according to one scout.

But when he gets engulfed by bigger offensive linemen who impede his path, Urlacher struggles to make plays.

"He's definitely not the same player he was when he had the fat guys in front of him," says one scout.

- He takes himself out of too many plays. On running plays, Urlacher has trouble stacking and shedding offensive linemen, so he often tries to go around the blocks. That creates a hole for the runner, who waits for Urlacher to commit himself and then goes the other way.

- Urlacher should make more plays for the money he's being paid (a nine-year, $54 million package with a $14 million bonus). Last year, he wasn't involved in a single turnover--a shocking statistic for someone who is supposed to be his team's best defensive player. He has one interception and two forced fumbles in nine games this season.

 

 

 

I'm sorry that you want to put a guy in the HOF based on sports center.

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry that you want to put a guy in the HOF based on sports center.

There are other articles that rank him as a first ballot HOFer and/or top 15 all time.

 

Why don't you link those as well?

 

How many games do you watch him play in stat boy? More than 1?

 

Urlacher > Swann

[edjr 5,563]

There are other articles that rank him as a first ballot HOFer and/or top 15 all time.

 

Why don't you link those as well?

 

How many games do you watch him play in stat boy? More than 1?

 

Urlacher > Swann

 

Are you kidding me? the Bears were on all the time back during his hayday. I saw him get hurt and leave games at least twice

 

Urlacher > swann 100%

 

both not HOF though

[listen2me 23 1,541]

I got Lewis. Moss. TO. Law. Hutchinson.

[edjr 5,563]

BTW found his tackle stats

 

had over 100 solo tackles (twice) in 13 years

 

 

Ray Lewis did it 8 times in 17 years.

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

Are you kidding me? the Bears were on all the time back during his hayday. I saw him get hurt and leave games at least twice

 

Urlacher > swann 100%

 

both not HOF though

Def ROY

 

Def Player of the year

 

8 time pro bowler.

 

1300+ tackles, 41.5 sacks and 34 turnovers.

 

Ranked #7 all time in this article

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/ranking-the-greatest-linebackers-in-nfl-history-lawrence-taylor-jack-ham-mike-singletary-040615%3famp=true

 

Ranked #14 all time in this article.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/athlonsports.com/nfl/25-greatest-linebackers-nfl-history%3famp

[vuduchile 1,941]

BTW found his tackle stats

 

had over 100 solo tackles (twice) in 13 years

 

 

Ray Lewis did it 8 times in 17 years.

Who's saying he was better than murderer?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

BTW found his tackle stats

 

had over 100 solo tackles (twice) in 13 years

 

 

Ray Lewis did it 8 times in 17 years.

Different defense. Not going to explain it, but the Ravens D was set up for Lewis to make all those tackles. Uhrlacher had coverage responsibilities, Lewis not as much.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Different defense. Not going to explain it, but the Ravens D was set up for Lewis to make all those tackles. Uhrlacher had coverage responsibilities, Lewis not as much.

Reinforcing my point that the game isn't all about stats.

 

But if it were, this shows Ray with 1336 tackles, 41.5 sacks and 48 turnovers. Damn close to Urlacher's career numbers.

 

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/raylewis/2501750/careerstats

[edjr 5,563]

Reinforcing my point that the game isn't all about stats. Thank you.

 

Football more so than most, especially on Defense, isn't about stats. YOU brought up tackles.

 

BA was a great player, not a HOFer

 

HOF > Great > good

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

Football more so than most, especially on Defense, isn't about stats. YOU brought up tackles.

 

BA was a great player, not a HOFer

 

HOF > Great > good

Try again. YOU said tackles weren't important in response to Mung's post.

[edjr 5,563]

Dude averaged over 100 tackles a season for a career even though one season he only played one game, how can that be overrated?

 

I didn't mention tackles.

 

said they weren't important.

 

hth

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

Reinforcing my point that the game isn't all about stats.

 

But if it were, this shows Ray with 1336 tackles, 41.5 sacks and 48 turnovers. Damn close to Urlacher's career numbers.

 

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/raylewis/2501750/careerstats

Oh, Lewis is much better. 2nd or 3rd greatest LB ever. Best middle lb for sure.

[edjr 5,563]

Oh, Lewis is much better. 2nd or 3rd greatest LB ever. Best middle lb for sure.

 

 

27 LBS in the HOF.

 

28 counting the murderer.

 

 

Chuck Bednarik (C-LB) 1949-1962

Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974

Derrick Brooks 1995-2008

Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976

###### Butkus 1965-1973

Harry Carson 1976-1988

George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955

Chris Doleman (DE, LB) 1985-1999

Bill George 1952-1966

Kevin Greene (also DE) 1985-1999

Jack Ham 1971-1982

Chris Hanburger 1965-1978

Ted Hendricks 1969-1983

Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969

Rickey Jackson LB (also DE) 1981-1995

Jack Lambert 1974-1984

Willie Lanier 1967-1977

Ray Nitschke 1958-1972

Les Richter 1954-1962

Dave Robinson 1963-1974

Joe Schmidt 1953-1965

Junior Seau 1990-2009

Mike Singletary 1981-1992

Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993

Derrick Thomas 1989-1999

Andre Tippett 1982-1993

Dave Wilcox 1964-1974

 

 

 

Didn't see them all play, but Urlacher doesn't belong

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

 

 

27 LBS in the HOF.

 

28 counting the murderer.

 

 

 

 

Didn't see them all play, but Urlacher doesn't belong

Not with that crew, but he's still a big time player. Judging him in his era, and the transistion a LB made in the cover 2 to having more and different responsibilities, I would vote for him. That Bears defense was really good.

[dain11279 927]

Get TO in and get passed it, absurd that he isn't already in.

 

 

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

 

27 LBS in the HOF.

 

28 counting the murderer.

 

 

 

 

Didn't see them all play, but Urlacher doesn't belong

He belongs more than Tippett

[edjr 5,563]

Not with that crew, but he's still a big time player. Judging him in his era, and the transistion a LB made in the cover 2 to having more and different responsibilities, I would vote for him. That Bears defense was really good.

 

Agreed, he was a big time player. The defense was great for many years., but playoffs 4 times in 13 years.

 

and he was a career. .000 passing.

[edjr 5,563]

He belongs more than Tippett

 

Nope. Neither should be in

 

Totally different roles.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

He belongs more than Tippett

Tippett was really good in the golden age of LB's. I think they are both worthy.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Arguing HOF worthiness is a favorite of mine. I have classic debates on Kurt Warner who had 3 great seasons, 1 good season and the rest garbage yet people fight tooth and nail against me when I say he didn’t belong.

 

Urlacher is a decent debate but I’d lean towards him rather than against him. I try not to use the dumb precedent they have already set with guys who already made it as leverage. “Well if this guy is in then he def belongs.”. I try to think of players on their own using their stats, impact and eye test.

 

Ray in, Moss in, TO in, Urlacher in. Warner? Mistake. Lightning in a bottle for a few seasons with the best WR corps in the league then a bunch of years as a fumbling punchline. Look it up.

 

Swann? No, he got in off one game, one catch even.

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

Tackles dont matter?

 

Imagine if Urlacher gave up just one extra before each tackle was completed. Granted the tackle itself isnt impressive because defensive players should be able to do that, but he minimized the yardage given up because he was such a great tackler.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Tackles dont matter?

 

Imagine if Urlacher gave up just one extra before each tackle was completed. Granted the tackle itself isnt impressive because defensive players should be able to do that, but he minimized the yardage given up because he was such a great tackler.

Hard to follow what you mean here. But a tackle depends where you make it.

 

Tackles as a stat isnt that important in the NFL. Plenty of bad MLBs are known for tackling 5 yards downfield. London Fletcher comes to mind in Buffalo. He wasnt bad but he seemed to rarely make stuffs but rather sure tackles 5 yards down field.

 

Not saying Urlacher was that way. But those stats, as a number means little.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Hard to follow what you mean here. But a tackle depends where you make it.

 

Tackles as a stat isnt that important in the NFL. Plenty of bad MLBs are known for tackling 5 yards downfield. London Fletcher comes to mind in Buffalo. He wasnt bad but he seemed to rarely make stuffs but rather sure tackles 5 yards down field.

 

Not saying Urlacher was that way. But those stats, as a number means little.

Being able to shed or evade blockers in pursuit of ball carriers is a great quality for a linebacker. Side to side, Urlacher was one of the best ever.

[frank 2,144]

Any giants ?

They might be.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Urlacher - First Ballot

 

Case closed.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-brian-urlacher-hall-of-fame-bears-20180203-story,amp.html

[wiffleball 4,640]

Tony Boselli was the Texans first draft pick. You should check out his stats while he was at Houston. Yeah, that's Hall of Fame Worthy.