Best record... still miss playoffs... and got kicked out! LOL

[mobb_deep 917]

Just wanted to give you guys an update. So as I said, when they kicked me out, they locked me out of my team page. What I found out, is that the commissioner went into my roster and benched everyone so that I got 0 points and as a result, lost the most points and best record award. As it turns out, I would have only needed 57 points to win those awards. Considering that my lowest point total on the year was 98 and my average was around 126, I'm pretty confident I'd have gotten the necessary points. To note, the guy I was playing had the worst team in the league and his record going into our match-up was 2-10 and he averaged only 92 ppg. He beat me 72-0 in Week 13.

I decided to not say anything in response to being kicked out. I was curious and wanted to see how things played out. Here is a summarized email exchange I've been having with the commissioner.

 

From him...

Hey, just wanted to let you know that you didn't win in Week 13 and didn't score enough points to win any prizes. Please send me your $310 fees please. I want to have all the money a.s.a.p.

 

My response...

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not in any fantasy league with you. I know I used to be, but I was kicked out, so I'm no longer a league member. As per the league rules "All League Members must pay all dues when after the end of the regular season if you did not make the playoffs". I'm not a league member, so I don't owe any dues.

 

From him...

You were a league member, so you owe the money. Please send it to me a.s.a.p.

 

From me...

Question. When you kicked me out and locked me out from the league and my team, what happened to my roster/lineup? I mean, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't need a lot of points to win the total points award. I know that I have Alvin Kamara, DeAndre Hopkins and Keenan Allen and that they put up good numbers. How did I not win total points? I was up by 130 points.

 

From him...

Please send me your $310 a.s.a.p.

 

From me...

So, you bench my roster so I take a 0 and lose and as a result, don't win 2 awards that would have won me $100, don't tell me what you did, then ask me for $310? That's a real ###### move. You know, had you been honorable and just asked for $210, I would have honored my agreement and sent it to you. But you basically want to rip me off, so screw you buddy.

 

From him...

Please send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks.

 

From me...

You'll have to use your law degree and sue me for it.

 

From him...

There is no need for legal proceedings. Please just send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks.

 

From me...

So in other words, you know you'll lose. Sorry, but I was not a league member at the conclusion of Week 13. Hence, I'm not obligated to pay any dues. Good luck next season. Oh, by the way, I hear that the rule change suggestion I made got passed by you guys. Interesting... don't you think? This is the last time I will respond to you, ever, so don't bother sending any more emails.

 

Well, he did send some that went unanswered. He sent me this message everyday since since my last email... "Please send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks." After a week of this, I got a friend of mine who is a lawyer respond his latest email (with the entire email chain included). In the body of the email, he wrote, "Please read the attached document." The attached document was a pdf of my friends law firm letter head that basically stated that if he continues to bully me, he will be sued in civil court.

 

I got an email from the commissioner that stated: "Thanks for playing in our league these last two years. Good luck in the future."

 

It's been 3 days and nothing since. Guess my friends' email worked. LOL The best part, my friend is a divorce lawyer!!

 

That is epic! Thanks for sharing.

 

What a focking tool that guy is.

[DaBeerz 88]

I would not pay the outstanding dues.

[brotherbock 349]

Just wanted to give you guys an update. So as I said, when they kicked me out, they locked me out of my team page. What I found out, is that the commissioner went into my roster and benched everyone so that I got 0 points and as a result, lost the most points and best record award. As it turns out, I would have only needed 57 points to win those awards. Considering that my lowest point total on the year was 98 and my average was around 126, I'm pretty confident I'd have gotten the necessary points. To note, the guy I was playing had the worst team in the league and his record going into our match-up was 2-10 and he averaged only 92 ppg. He beat me 72-0 in Week 13.

I decided to not say anything in response to being kicked out. I was curious and wanted to see how things played out. Here is a summarized email exchange I've been having with the commissioner.

 

(snip)

 

Bravo man Well done, handled perfectly.

 

I'm going to be laughing about this one for a while. Super-tasty justice. Best part--all the d!cks who either didn't step up to protest or actually asked that you be kicked out will have less prize money to split between them as a result of their own behavior. Karma.

[weepaws 2,456]

How sad.

 

Can't believe that a simply game of luck can turn into something that's a really ugly situation.

 

Titus 1:15&16.

[brotherbock 349]

How sad.

 

Can't believe that a simply game of luck can turn into something that's a really ugly situation.

 

Titus 1:15&16.

 

Even a game involving some skill shouldn't turn out this way

[weepaws 2,456]

Even a game involving some skill shouldn't turn out this way

I disagree.

 

I think in a game of skill I can see pride being a factor.

 

In a skill pf luck, no point.

 

Oh sorry wink

[seafoam1 1,878]

How sad.

 

Can't believe that a simply game of luck can turn into something that's a really ugly situation.

 

Titus 1:15&16.

You have been quoted on this site that you do all your research in the preseason to draft a good team. if it is all luck, then how do you explain your actions in the preseason? And why do you even partake in the FA pickups unless one of your players is out do to injuries?

[weepaws 2,456]

You have been quoted on this site that you do all your research in the preseason to draft a good team. if it is all luck, then how do you explain your actions in the preseason? And why do you even partake in the FA pickups unless one of your players is out do to injuries?

Sorry, but I can't post with you anymore.

 

I saw where you quoted that I always call you out on this board.

 

So I don't want too be a bother too you.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Have a great day, God bless.

 

Ps, the Answers that you are searching for are in the word of God.

[Brutal Brutus 182]

Just wanted to give you guys an update. So as I said, when they kicked me out, they locked me out of my team page. What I found out, is that the commissioner went into my roster and benched everyone so that I got 0 points and as a result, lost the most points and best record award. As it turns out, I would have only needed 57 points to win those awards. Considering that my lowest point total on the year was 98 and my average was around 126, I'm pretty confident I'd have gotten the necessary points. To note, the guy I was playing had the worst team in the league and his record going into our match-up was 2-10 and he averaged only 92 ppg. He beat me 72-0 in Week 13.

I decided to not say anything in response to being kicked out. I was curious and wanted to see how things played out. Here is a summarized email exchange I've been having with the commissioner.

 

From him...

Hey, just wanted to let you know that you didn't win in Week 13 and didn't score enough points to win any prizes. Please send me your $310 fees please. I want to have all the money a.s.a.p.

 

My response...

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not in any fantasy league with you. I know I used to be, but I was kicked out, so I'm no longer a league member. As per the league rules "All League Members must pay all dues when after the end of the regular season if you did not make the playoffs". I'm not a league member, so I don't owe any dues.

 

From him...

You were a league member, so you owe the money. Please send it to me a.s.a.p.

 

From me...

Question. When you kicked me out and locked me out from the league and my team, what happened to my roster/lineup? I mean, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't need a lot of points to win the total points award. I know that I have Alvin Kamara, DeAndre Hopkins and Keenan Allen and that they put up good numbers. How did I not win total points? I was up by 130 points.

 

From him...

Please send me your $310 a.s.a.p.

 

From me...

So, you bench my roster so I take a 0 and lose and as a result, don't win 2 awards that would have won me $100, don't tell me what you did, then ask me for $310? That's a real ###### move. You know, had you been honorable and just asked for $210, I would have honored my agreement and sent it to you. But you basically want to rip me off, so screw you buddy.

 

From him...

Please send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks.

 

From me...

You'll have to use your law degree and sue me for it.

 

From him...

There is no need for legal proceedings. Please just send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks.

 

From me...

So in other words, you know you'll lose. Sorry, but I was not a league member at the conclusion of Week 13. Hence, I'm not obligated to pay any dues. Good luck next season. Oh, by the way, I hear that the rule change suggestion I made got passed by you guys. Interesting... don't you think? This is the last time I will respond to you, ever, so don't bother sending any more emails.

 

Well, he did send some that went unanswered. He sent me this message everyday since since my last email... "Please send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks." After a week of this, I got a friend of mine who is a lawyer respond his latest email (with the entire email chain included). In the body of the email, he wrote, "Please read the attached document." The attached document was a pdf of my friends law firm letter head that basically stated that if he continues to bully me, he will be sued in civil court.

 

I got an email from the commissioner that stated: "Thanks for playing in our league these last two years. Good luck in the future."

 

It's been 3 days and nothing since. Guess my friends' email worked. LOL The best part, my friend is a divorce lawyer!!

Well you did get divorce from the league...

[Thornton Melon 542]

Punch. Face. Wife. Kids. Dog

[Oriole8159 86]

haha, that is fantastic.

[mobb_deep 917]

You have been quoted on this site that you do all your research in the preseason to draft a good team. if it is all luck, then how do you explain your actions in the preseason? And why do you even partake in the FA pickups unless one of your players is out do to injuries?

 

As much as I hate agreeing with weepaws, I have to agree here. I can buy a lottery ticket and my chances are one in 150 million or whatever. I can buy two tickets and have a 2 in 150 million, but it's still luck. By the same token, you can improve your FF odds, by doing research, picking up FA's, etc... but at the end of the day you have zero control over how those players perform, so winning it all is entirely luck.

[cavern 70]

that guy is an idiot. i just can't imagine kicking someone out like that.... and then chasing the money afterward is supreme stupidity.

 

"oops...maybe he's not going to pay!!"

[seafoam1 1,878]

 

As much as I hate agreeing with weepaws, I have to agree here. I can buy a lottery ticket and my chances are one in 150 million or whatever. I can buy two tickets and have a 2 in 150 million, but it's still luck. By the same token, you can improve your FF odds, by doing research, picking up FA's, etc... but at the end of the day you have zero control over how those players perform, so winning it all is entirely luck.

So by your logic, if you have a choice at the beginning of the year to own either LeVeon Bell or Doug Martin, it doesn't matter who you pick in the end because it is all just luck? 1 in 150 million vs. 2 in 150 million?

[TheUsualSuspect 207]

Looks like this League has an open spot, how can I get involved ?

[redsrback 30]

Fantasy football has changed. I started in 90 and was a commish in 91 for like 10 years. Back then as a commissioner I had to look up stats using the usatoday as the official stats, run off weekly line-ups and standings. I did it for free at the beginning because I had the bug so bad. But 1 thing u had to do when people had a few hundred bucks on the line for something foreign to a lot, was be unbias , very clear on the rules, fair for the unexpected. Todays leagues that I get in for the first time are nothing but self serving cliques. Tbay is an outsider, not fitting in as the sacrificial lamb, he had to go, welcome to fantasy football 2017.

[weepaws 2,456]

Picking Bell over Martin isn't luck, it's the right or better move.

 

The luck part comes into on how they perform during the season.

 

So I would pick Bell over Martin but for some reason Martin either out performs Bell or Bell just simply doesn't perform up too code or he suffers an injury like let's say D J, now that's bad luck.

 

And when playing H2H all I can do is roster my best lineup every week, and with luck I win, or with bad luck I lose.

 

How the players perform on my team on game day takes absolutely no skill from a ff owner at all, it can't,

 

As a ff owner you don't have any skill on how a player will be producing , or how many points your ff team will score that weekend.

 

All you can do is set a lineup the rest is all luck.

 

All you can do is set up a draft sheet and draft the players you like the most, and how they indeed perform that season as absolutely nothing too do with one skill, how they perform that season, and how good your ff team performs is strictly luck.

 

In my league I had the second draft pick, and I took Bell, because the person who picked first took D J.

 

Now that person taking D J first was lucky for me, because if they had taken Bell I would have taken D J.

 

No skill involved in that not one bit, it was all luck.

 

Anyway.

 

God bless

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

Looks like this League has an open spot, how can I get involved ?

 

I can send you an email. LOL

 

Though, I hope you live in the general area of Atlantic City, NJ. They do their draft at the commissioner's house.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

Picking Bell over Martin isn't luck, it's the right or better move.

 

The luck part comes into on how they perform during the season.

 

So I would pick Bell over Martin but for some reason Martin either out performs Bell or Bell just simply doesn't perform up too code or he suffers an injury like let's say D J, now that's bad luck.

 

And when playing H2H all I can do is roster my best lineup every week, and with luck I win, or with bad luck I lose.

 

How the players perform on my team on game day takes absolutely no skill from a ff owner at all, it can't,

 

As a ff owner you don't have any skill on how a player will be producing , or how many points your ff team will score that weekend.

 

All you can do is set a lineup the rest is all luck.

 

All you can do is set up a draft sheet and draft the players you like the most, and how they indeed perform that season as absolutely nothing too do with one skill, how they perform that season, and how good your ff team performs is strictly luck.

 

In my league I had the second draft pick, and I took Bell, because the person who picked first took D J.

 

Now that person taking D J first was lucky for me, because if they had taken Bell I would have taken D J.

 

No skill involved in that not one bit, it was all luck.

 

Anyway.

 

God bless

 

This I agree with. A good example to the argument isn't Bell and Martin because the expectations are completely different. The perfect example is, if you had the #1 pick in the draft... did you take David Johnson, LeVeon Bell, or Antonio Brown. Really, there isn't a "wrong" answer. The one who ended up on the wrong side was the guy who took Johnson. That was all bad luck and had absolutely nothing to do with skill.

[brotherbock 349]

 

This I agree with. A good example to the argument isn't Bell and Martin because the expectations are completely different. The perfect example is, if you had the #1 pick in the draft... did you take David Johnson, LeVeon Bell, or Antonio Brown. Really, there isn't a "wrong" answer. The one who ended up on the wrong side was the guy who took Johnson. That was all bad luck and had absolutely nothing to do with skill.

 

So what the "FF is all luck" argument comes down to is "the parts of FF that are luck are just luck".

 

Sure. The parts of it that involve no skill are just luck. Agreed.

 

The parts that involve skill, however, are not just luck.

 

I'm not sure why some people keep talking about this game as if its different in that way from poker or blackjack. There are parts of those games you have no control over either. But card players don't shrug and say "it's all luck". Or if you do, I want to play cards with you.

[brotherbock 349]

 

As much as I hate agreeing with weepaws, I have to agree here. I can buy a lottery ticket and my chances are one in 150 million or whatever. I can buy two tickets and have a 2 in 150 million, but it's still luck. By the same token, you can improve your FF odds, by doing research, picking up FA's, etc... but at the end of the day you have zero control over how those players perform, so winning it all is entirely luck.

 

So the FF draft is not luck. And picking up free agents and making waiver claims is not luck. And making your start-sit decisions each week is not luck.

 

But other than that, winning is "entirely" luck?

 

Ok.

[cavern 70]

there is certainly tons of luck involved. i had a dynasty team with Rodgers, DJ, Lev Bell, ODB, Evans, michael thomas that almost didn't make the playoffs

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

 

So what the "FF is all luck" argument comes down to is "the parts of FF that are luck are just luck".

 

Sure. The parts of it that involve no skill are just luck. Agreed.

 

The parts that involve skill, however, are not just luck.

 

I'm not sure why some people keep talking about this game as if its different in that way from poker or blackjack. There are parts of those games you have no control over either. But card players don't shrug and say "it's all luck". Or if you do, I want to play cards with you.

 

FF is way different than poker, but the same as blackjack.

 

In poker, you are actually playing against the person. You try to bluff, you try to force your opponents to make moves. You actually can influence the outcome in your favor even when you are at a disadvantage. You also don't know if you even have an advantage or not. Also, every hand in poker is like that, not just set your lineup and let things play out. Sure, there's free agency and trades and what not where you can increase your odds, but that's not skill either... it's luck. It's luck because you can do all the research you want and think you put the best players out there, but in the end, the result of the decisions you made were based on circumstances beyond your control. That's luck.

 

In blackjack, you're playing against only the dealer. You have a reasonable idea of what you have to beat and you know what you have. Yes, you have decisions to make... hit, stand, split, etc. That's no different that setting your lineup. Do I start this guy or that guy. Do I use a WR or RB... or TE for my flex. They're all similar. But in the end, blackjack like fantasy football is all luck because you have no impact on the outcome of your decisions.

 

I'm also willing to bet that in the great majority of 10+ team fantasy league across this country, a team who finished in the top 3 or 4 in scoring missed the playoffs. That's luck... bad, but luck, not skill.

 

In leagues all across the country, there owners who one year won the championship and finished with an awful record the next year. What, did that owner all of a sudden lose his skill?

[brotherbock 349]

I disagree.

 

I think in a game of skill I can see pride being a factor.

 

In a skill pf luck, no point.

 

Oh sorry wink

 

Hey, I've got a lineup question. I've got a big coin toss tournament coming up. Should I pick heads or tails? I've been agonizing about the decision, figured I'd look for some advice. And I've got the choice of flipping a quarter, or a half dollar. Which one should I use?

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

 

Hey, I've got a lineup question. I've got a big coin toss tournament coming up. Should I pick heads or tails? I've been agonizing about the decision, figured I'd look for some advice. And I've got the choice of flipping a quarter, or a half dollar. Which one should I use?

 

I can put you in contact with a college buddy. He was a physics major. He created a little "coin flipper machine", with settings for each coin. He can predict with 100% accuracy what the result of every coin flip will be. It was pretty cool really. He did all the calculations on how much force must be exerted on each coin to flip it one complete turn and land without bouncing. You can set the machine to flip the coin any number of times and it will tell you the result before it flips the coin. It was never wrong.

[cavern 70]

and the machine never breaks or malfunctions

 

I can put you in contact with a college buddy. He was a physics major. He created a little "coin flipper machine", with settings for each coin. He can predict with 100% accuracy what the result of every coin flip will be. It was pretty cool really. He did all the calculations on how much force must be exerted on each coin to flip it one complete turn and land without bouncing. You can set the machine to flip the coin any number of times and it will tell you the result before it flips the coin. It was never wrong.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

and the machine never breaks or malfunctions

 

Oh, I'm sure, it can. But, when working properly, it worked every time. I never saw it fail. He won some kind of award and scholarship for it. They said they ran it 1 million times and it predicted the result accurately every time.

[Maulers1973 117]

 

FF is way different than poker, but the same as blackjack.

 

In poker, you are actually playing against the person. You try to bluff, you try to force your opponents to make moves. You actually can influence the outcome in your favor even when you are at a disadvantage. You also don't know if you even have an advantage or not. Also, every hand in poker is like that, not just set your lineup and let things play out. Sure, there's free agency and trades and what not where you can increase your odds, but that's not skill either... it's luck. It's luck because you can do all the research you want and think you put the best players out there, but in the end, the result of the decisions you made were based on circumstances beyond your control. That's luck.

 

In blackjack, you're playing against only the dealer. You have a reasonable idea of what you have to beat and you know what you have. Yes, you have decisions to make... hit, stand, split, etc. That's no different that setting your lineup. Do I start this guy or that guy. Do I use a WR or RB... or TE for my flex. They're all similar. But in the end, blackjack like fantasy football is all luck because you have no impact on the outcome of your decisions.

 

I'm also willing to bet that in the great majority of 10+ team fantasy league across this country, a team who finished in the top 3 or 4 in scoring missed the playoffs. That's luck... bad, but luck, not skill.

 

In leagues all across the country, there owners who one year won the championship and finished with an awful record the next year. What, did that owner all of a sudden lose his skill?

 

 

IMO this is why FF leagues that focus only on H2H or pay out the most to H2H champ are dumb!!

 

My club league the top money goes to overall finish in the season long rankings for all the statistical categories. So, every year, the guy with the best players wins. There is some bad luck involved with injuries, but that's usually marginal. Though, recently, the rampant injuries are causing me to sour on FF altogether.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Just wanted to give you guys an update. So as I said, when they kicked me out, they locked me out of my team page. What I found out, is that the commissioner went into my roster and benched everyone so that I got 0 points and as a result, lost the most points and best record award. As it turns out, I would have only needed 57 points to win those awards. Considering that my lowest point total on the year was 98 and my average was around 126, I'm pretty confident I'd have gotten the necessary points. To note, the guy I was playing had the worst team in the league and his record going into our match-up was 2-10 and he averaged only 92 ppg. He beat me 72-0 in Week 13.

I decided to not say anything in response to being kicked out. I was curious and wanted to see how things played out. Here is a summarized email exchange I've been having with the commissioner.

 

From him...

Hey, just wanted to let you know that you didn't win in Week 13 and didn't score enough points to win any prizes. Please send me your $310 fees please. I want to have all the money a.s.a.p.

 

My response...

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not in any fantasy league with you. I know I used to be, but I was kicked out, so I'm no longer a league member. As per the league rules "All League Members must pay all dues when after the end of the regular season if you did not make the playoffs". I'm not a league member, so I don't owe any dues.

 

From him...

You were a league member, so you owe the money. Please send it to me a.s.a.p.

 

From me...

Question. When you kicked me out and locked me out from the league and my team, what happened to my roster/lineup? I mean, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't need a lot of points to win the total points award. I know that I have Alvin Kamara, DeAndre Hopkins and Keenan Allen and that they put up good numbers. How did I not win total points? I was up by 130 points.

 

From him...

Please send me your $310 a.s.a.p.

 

From me...

So, you bench my roster so I take a 0 and lose and as a result, don't win 2 awards that would have won me $100, don't tell me what you did, then ask me for $310? That's a real ###### move. You know, had you been honorable and just asked for $210, I would have honored my agreement and sent it to you. But you basically want to rip me off, so screw you buddy.

 

From him...

Please send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks.

 

From me...

You'll have to use your law degree and sue me for it.

 

From him...

There is no need for legal proceedings. Please just send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks.

 

From me...

So in other words, you know you'll lose. Sorry, but I was not a league member at the conclusion of Week 13. Hence, I'm not obligated to pay any dues. Good luck next season. Oh, by the way, I hear that the rule change suggestion I made got passed by you guys. Interesting... don't you think? This is the last time I will respond to you, ever, so don't bother sending any more emails.

 

Well, he did send some that went unanswered. He sent me this message everyday since since my last email... "Please send me your $210 a.s.a.p. Thanks." After a week of this, I got a friend of mine who is a lawyer respond his latest email (with the entire email chain included). In the body of the email, he wrote, "Please read the attached document." The attached document was a pdf of my friends law firm letter head that basically stated that if he continues to bully me, he will be sued in civil court.

 

I got an email from the commissioner that stated: "Thanks for playing in our league these last two years. Good luck in the future."

 

It's been 3 days and nothing since. Guess my friends' email worked. LOL The best part, my friend is a divorce lawyer!!

Man, I've only played in one douschy league ever and it just so happened to be run by my boss at work. But I've NEVER seen anybody turn the dousch level up that high. While I always believe in paying my dues, and my bills, I believe you did the right thing in this case. Asking a question or making a suggestion to improve the league does not constitute you starting rebellion, and any good commish will listen to those suggestions and take them to the league and let the league decide them, for next season (exactly as you had mentioned). This d-bag got what he deserved. Next step is, of course, fftoday style justice:

 

Go to his house and punch him the face in front of his wife and kids.

 

 

As to the other debate going on. There is a stark difference between blind luck and educated guessing. However, anyone who tries to convince themselves that their skills in FF are the reason they win and that it doesn't involve luck is fooling themselves. We make educated guesses on Draft Day. David Johnson over Le'Veon Bell is an educated guess. Johnson going down for the season in week one is luck (bad luck). Your team making the playoffs as the last team to get may be somewhat your skill, but it may also be the bad luck of the team that drafted David Johnson who should have been there instead of you. You do more homework, you prepare, you try to think ahead and you might have a modicum more success than someone else...but luck is still a HUGE factor in all of it.

 

We're all flinging poo at a wall and hoping it sticks...some are just a little more adept at noticing which poo has better cling.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

 

 

IMO this is why FF leagues that focus only on H2H or pay out the most to H2H champ are dumb!!

 

My club league the top money goes to overall finish in the season long rankings for all the statistical categories. So, every year, the guy with the best players wins. There is some bad luck involved with injuries, but that's usually marginal. Though, recently, the rampant injuries are causing me to sour on FF altogether.

 

I do agree with this more than I do with someone calling fantasy sports "skill", but I think it's still more significantly determined by luck. In your leagues, the person who puts the most work in has better odds of winning than others. That said, all the "research" and what not you do, still only works if you were lucky. By that I mean, I don't think anyone ever comes to a decision because one and only one guy stands out head and shoulders above the rest. In the end, you're always debating between 2 or 3 guys. All the research you do is garbage because you don't know for a fact which guy to take. Once you pick that one guy, you now are completely dependent on luck to see if you were right or wrong. Think about it this way... you and two other people need to pick up a player to start this coming week. All 3 of you spend the exact same time doing the exact same analysis and come to the same conclusion that there are these 3 players are the best available. Each of you pick a different one. One player gets 18 points, one gets 11, and the other gets 3. The guy who got the 18 points isn't more skilled than the other two. The guy who got 3 isn't less skilled. It was luck that determined the outcome. Nothing more, nothing less.

[nobody 2,037]

 

Oh, I'm sure, it can. But, when working properly, it worked every time. I never saw it fail. He won some kind of award and scholarship for it. They said they ran it 1 million times and it predicted the result accurately every time.

Does it land back in the socket?

[brotherbock 349]

 

I can put you in contact with a college buddy. He was a physics major. He created a little "coin flipper machine", with settings for each coin. He can predict with 100% accuracy what the result of every coin flip will be. It was pretty cool really. He did all the calculations on how much force must be exerted on each coin to flip it one complete turn and land without bouncing. You can set the machine to flip the coin any number of times and it will tell you the result before it flips the coin. It was never wrong.

 

While that is honestly fascinating, it is beside the point. When someone is flipping a coin with their hand, that level of control does not exist. Not even sure if you intend there to be an argument here. Humans flipping coins isn't all about luck because you know a guy who made a machine that could reliably flip the coin?

 

 

FF is way different than poker, but the same as blackjack.

 

In poker, you are actually playing against the person. You try to bluff, you try to force your opponents to make moves. You actually can influence the outcome in your favor even when you are at a disadvantage. You also don't know if you even have an advantage or not. Also, every hand in poker is like that, not just set your lineup and let things play out. Sure, there's free agency and trades and what not where you can increase your odds, but that's not skill either... it's luck. It's luck because you can do all the research you want and think you put the best players out there, but in the end, the result of the decisions you made were based on circumstances beyond your control. That's luck.

 

In blackjack, you're playing against only the dealer. You have a reasonable idea of what you have to beat and you know what you have. Yes, you have decisions to make... hit, stand, split, etc. That's no different that setting your lineup. Do I start this guy or that guy. Do I use a WR or RB... or TE for my flex. They're all similar. But in the end, blackjack like fantasy football is all luck because you have no impact on the outcome of your decisions.

 

I'm also willing to bet that in the great majority of 10+ team fantasy league across this country, a team who finished in the top 3 or 4 in scoring missed the playoffs. That's luck... bad, but luck, not skill.

 

In leagues all across the country, there owners who one year won the championship and finished with an awful record the next year. What, did that owner all of a sudden lose his skill?

 

I did not say that FF and Poker are alike in every way. It's an analogy. They aren't 'the same'. They are 'analogous'. You are right that the skills involved in poker are different skills than the skills involved in FF. I did not say that they are the same skills.

 

What I said is that skill is involved in both. And the existence of luck in one is not proof of the absence of skill.

 

There is a significant amount of luck involved in playing poker. You have no control over the shuffle of the deck and which card will be dealt at any time. But this does not mean that winning at poker is 'entirely luck'.

 

Now watch as I simply replace some words here.

 

There is a significant amount of luck involved in playing fantasy football. You have no control over the play that happens during the game and which player will do what during the game. But this does not mean that winning at fantasy football is 'entirely luck'.

 

 

In other words: the fact that there is some luck in fantasy football does not at all imply that winning is 'entirely' luck. That is my argument. And the differences between the kinds of skill involved in poker and FF does not in any way impact my argument. That's how an analogy works.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

Does it land back in the socket?

 

No, it had a small landing surface just in front of it. If I remember correctly, I think it was 6" x 6".

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

 

While that is honestly fascinating, it is beside the point. When someone is flipping a coin with their hand, that level of control does not exist. Not even sure if you intend there to be an argument here. Humans flipping coins isn't all about luck because you know a guy who made a machine that could reliably flip the coin?

 

 

I did not say that FF and Poker are alike in every way. It's an analogy. They aren't 'the same'. They are 'analogous'. You are right that the skills involved in poker are different skills than the skills involved in FF. I did not say that they are the same skills.

 

What I said is that skill is involved in both. And the existence of luck in one is not proof of the absence of skill.

 

There is a significant amount of luck involved in playing poker. You have no control over the shuffle of the deck and which card will be dealt at any time. But this does not mean that winning at poker is 'entirely luck'.

 

Now watch as I simply replace some words here.

 

There is a significant amount of luck involved in playing fantasy football. You have no control over the play that happens during the game and which player will do what during the game. But this does not mean that winning at fantasy football is 'entirely luck'.

 

 

In other words: the fact that there is some luck in fantasy football does not at all imply that winning is 'entirely' luck. That is my argument. And the differences between the kinds of skill involved in poker and FF does not in any way impact my argument. That's how an analogy works.

 

Nah, purely anecdotal. His thesis was that "chance" can be virtually eliminated from a coin flip if you can replicate the flip action. He believed that he could create an environment that would yield 90-95% accuracy. It was pretty cool. He did say have a section of his project devoted solely to the human element. He had a group of calculations which yielded a margin of error in a person flipping the coin to where you can increase your odds of picking right result. Of course, as you said... as did he in the paper, it's theory because it's virtually impossible to get a person to flip a coin that consistently even within a margin of error.

 

 

 

In relation to fantasy sports and poker, I've heard a large number of fantasy sports "experts" go on and on about the similarities in the "skill" factor of poker and fantasy sports. They're nuts. You ask any "legit" poker player and they'll tell you that the cards in your hand have very little to do with the outcome of hand. They don't play the cards, they play their opponents. That's why an analogy doesn't work. If you equate yourself to a good poker player (from a success perspective), then their is no analogy as they're completely different. Fantasy sports is a game of chance, just like roulette, blackjack, or keno... but poker is a game of skill and has very little to do with luck or chance. Now, if you go down to the casino play with random people who find poker "entertaining", then yes, poker is more luck and chance. But if you play with the big boys, luck has nothing to do with the outcome.

[seafoam1 1,878]

Anyone who thinks FF is pure luck should not be on this board asking for any type of rankings or advice. And should never weigh in on someone asking for rankings or advice unless your answer would be, "doesn't matter who you use, it's all just luck anyway".

[seafoam1 1,878]

Oh, and it sucks TBay that you went through all this crap, but honestly, I believe this was the best entertainment this site has ever seen.

 

I am really surprised that you even would have offered the $210 to them early on. If they charged you up front and kicked you out, that would have a case for suing in small claims. And you would have won.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

Anyone who thinks FF is pure luck should not be on this board asking for any type of rankings or advice. And should never weigh in on someone asking for rankings or advice unless your answer would be, "doesn't matter who you use, it's all just luck anyway".

 

The advise, research, and what not are all in effort to reduce the chances of bad luck and increase the chance of good luck. It's not 100% luck, but the greatest majority is luck. For the record, no it really doesn't matter who you use, that part is true because yes, it is mostly luck. Reason being, people on these boards, most believe that they are "good" at fantasy football. yet, I'm willing to bet that everyone here doesn't really "net" a lot of money on a yearly basis. If they did, they wouldn't be on these boards listening to us amateurs. If you win one league but finish with 4 wins in another, how does that fit the "skill" mantra? You put "x" amount of time into your research and into your decision making, yet, you won one league and sucked in the other. The reason? Luck. It really is that simple.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

Oh, and it sucks TBay that you went through all this crap, but honestly, I believe this was the best entertainment this site has ever seen.

 

I am really surprised that you even would have offered the $210 to them early on. If they charged you up front and kicked you out, that would have a case for suing in small claims. And you would have won.

 

Once they screwed me over from winning the money, I never planned on paying the $210... I was curious to see what his reaction would be. LOL Heck, I'd have paid the money even after being kicked out had they let me just finish out the season. Had they done that, then really there was no wrong doing because the rules were followed and it was really just bad luck (see what I did there? ), and that would have been that. But, because they deliberately screwed me over so I couldn't win anything, then asked for the full amount, that's when I refused to pay anything.

[DaBeerz 88]

 

Once they screwed me over from winning the money, I never planned on paying the $210... I was curious to see what his reaction would be. LOL Heck, I'd have paid the money even after being kicked out had they let me just finish out the season. Had they done that, then really there was no wrong doing because the rules were followed and it was really just bad luck (see what I did there? ), and that would have been that. But, because they deliberately screwed me over so I couldn't win anything, then asked for the full amount, that's when I refused to pay anything.

 

Ridiculous! Well good for you for not being a pushover.

 

We've only ever kicked out 2 owners as far as I know, and even then they were just not invited back the next year, they got to finish the season. One was a total absentee owner who still won the league and didn't pay his dues forever until he was deep in the playoffs (we still paid him his money when he won the league). Another owner missed the draft, and never paid his dues.

 

Proposing rule changes mid-season can look self-serving though, that's probably why they got pissed off. I'm not saying you deserved to be kicked, but that type of thing should be proposed in the offseason maybe?

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

 

Ridiculous! Well good for you for not being a pushover.

 

We've only ever kicked out 2 owners as far as I know, and even then they were just not invited back the next year, they got to finish the season. One was a total absentee owner who still won the league and didn't pay his dues forever until he was deep in the playoffs (we still paid him his money when he won the league). Another owner missed the draft, and never paid his dues.

 

Proposing rule changes mid-season can look self-serving though, that's probably why they got pissed off. I'm not saying you deserved to be kicked, but that type of thing should be proposed in the offseason maybe?

 

I get what you're saying on the last part, but I did specifically say that it would be something to look at for next season. I made sure that I did not include any notion that I was getting screwed or that I was mad. Just that it would seem odd that you give out an award to team who has the best record, but yet, they didn't make the playoffs. Simply said that next year they should consider using one standard way to break ties, not use one way for awards and a separate for seeding's. To note, don't know if you read all of my posts, but they did take my suggestion and already passed a rule for next season that all ties are broken first by points then head to head.

 

I am the commissioner of my 20-year league - which started out as a re-draft and converted to a keeper league. I encourage people to email me, and the league, suggestions for possible rule changes all throughout the calendar year. Send them when you think of them. Some ideas are good, some were bad. I think it's a great way to stay current with the times as well as gets all of the owners interactive in the league. Keeping people interested all year is a good thing, not a bad thing. Sometimes when you think of an idea in-season, and you keep it to yourself, you can forget it when the off-season rolls around and may not remember it until it's too late. Get it out there and talk about it. It can't hurt.