edjr 5,546 Posted December 1, 2017 Chris Carpenter 1st Johnny Damon 1st Liván Hernández 1st Orlando Hudson 1st Aubrey Huff 1st Jason Isringhausen 1st Andruw Jones 1st Chipper Jones 1st Carlos Lee 1st Brad Lidge 1st Hideki Matsui 1st Kevin Millwood 1st Jamie Moyer 1st Scott Rolen 1st Johan Santana 1st Jim Thome 1st Omar Vizquel 1st Kerry Wood 1st Carlos Zambrano 1st RETURNING TO THE BALLOT Trevor Hoffman 74.0% 3rd year Vladimir Guerrero 71.7% 2nd year Edgar Martínez 58.6% 9th year Roger Clemens 54.1% 6th year Barry Bonds 53.8% 6th year Mike Mussina 51.8% 5th year Curt Schilling 45.0% 6th year Manny Ramírez 23.8% 2nd year Larry Walker 21.9% 8th year Fred McGriff 21.7% 9th year Jeff Kent 16.7% 5th year Gary Sheffield 13.3% 4th year The yearly joke continues. Biggio, Bagwell and Piazza 100%, unequivocally, did not do steroids. Who gets in for 1st timers? Chipper and Viquel and who else? Thome, another one who didn't do steroids Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted December 1, 2017 If I had a vote... Chipper Jones Jim Thome Vladimir Guerrero Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Trevor Hoffman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted December 1, 2017 Vizquel is prolly never going to get in - which is a shame. He just happened to play at the wrong time - during the reign of A-Fraud, Jeter, Ripken, Nomar, Larkin, etc... and of course, was never a hitting threat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 1, 2017 Vizquel is prolly never going to get in - which is a shame. He just happened to play at the wrong time - during the reign of A-Fraud, Jeter, Ripken, Nomar, Larkin, etc... and of course, was never a hitting threat. He had 14 HR once. Ozzie Smith is in, but Vizquel won't get in ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Honcho 4,007 Posted December 1, 2017 If I had a vote... Chipper Jones Jim Thome Vladimir Guerrero Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Trevor Hoffman Fred McGriff I don't have Vlad, I think he's just short of of a HOF inductee, but he's going to get in. Most don't have McGriff, but he was an essential element to those Braves teams and I think people overlook him because of some of the cheats of the era and the numbers they put up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted December 1, 2017 I don't have Vlad, I think he's just short of of a HOF inductee, but he's going to get in. Really? .318 career hitter, never struck out over 100 times a year... Almost 450 HR and 1500 RBI in 16 years? He should have been a first year inductee IMO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted December 1, 2017 He had 14 HR once. Ozzie Smith is in, but Vizquel won't get in ? This is why the hall of fame sucks. Ozzie Smith was a focking first ballot hall of famer. Terrible. Heres another thing that sucks about it. Clemens, Bonds, and the rest of the PED crew aren't in but Tony Larussa, who benefitted probably more than anyone from having players using PEDs, is in as a manager. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mighty_thor 115 Posted December 1, 2017 If it was my vote: Vlad Vizquel Chipper I dont think Vizquel will get in year 1 but he will get in eventually. I think Vizquel may have been the greatest defensive shortstop ever which is the most important defensive position. Thome has the numbers. I just dont think he stuck out enough to go in year 1. He was just another slugger with inflated numbers in the steroid era. No proof he took anything and I lean towards thinking he didnt but they are all suspect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Honcho 4,007 Posted December 1, 2017 Really? .318 career hitter, never struck out over 100 times a year... Almost 450 HR and 1500 RBI in 16 years? He should have been a first year inductee IMO... .318 with only a .379 OBP...and the DH thing, and leading the league in errors for a RF nine times, I just have him so short by a hair. I have trouble saying he is in the company of Hank Aaron, Clemente, Gwynn, Robinson, Ruth. But I completely understand the case for putting him in, I just have him in the Hall of Really Really Really Good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,576 Posted December 1, 2017 Chipper Thome Eli Vizquel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted December 1, 2017 Chipper Thome Eli Vizquel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 1, 2017 Chipper Thome Eli Vizquel Well played. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,576 Posted December 1, 2017 Gracias Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclone24 1,794 Posted December 1, 2017 Hall of Sham has only one member... Sham Wow guy. (Shrug) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mighty_thor 115 Posted December 1, 2017 Really? .318 career hitter, never struck out over 100 times a year... Almost 450 HR and 1500 RBI in 16 years? He should have been a first year inductee IMO... He was probably the most amazing hitter I ever saw in terms of being able to hit balls that no one should ever even swing at. That amazing contact skill with such a big swing probably kept his strikeout total low. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 1, 2017 He was probably the most amazing hitter I ever saw in terms of being able to hit balls that no one should ever even swing at. That amazing contact skill with such a big swing probably kept his strikeout total low. had a CANNON too LOVED VLAD! but please don't tell me he didn't focking juice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kopy 489 Posted December 1, 2017 If I had a vote...Chipper JonesJim ThomeVladimir GuerreroBarry BondsRoger ClemensTrevor HoffmanI'd replace Thome with Vizquel. Otherwise I concur. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 12, 2017 Alan Trammell and Jack Morris elected to Baseball Hall of Sham Alan Trammell and Jack Morris were elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame on Sunday by the Modern Era Committee, announced on Sunday night from the MLB winter meetings in Orlando, Fla. Trammell and Morris were teammates on the Detroit Tigers for 14 seasons, from 1977-1990. They were two of 10 candidates on the Modern Era ballot. The Modern Era Committee considers former managers, executives, and umpires, plus players who are no longer eligible on the Baseball Writers Association of America ballot, whose primary contributions to baseball came within 1970-87. Seventy-five percent of the votes from the 16-person committee are needed for induction. Morris received 14 votes and Trammell received 13 to earn induction. Ted Simmons fell just short with 11 votes, and longtime players union head Marvin Miller received seven votes. All other candidates received fewer than seven votes. Trammell spent all 20 of his major league seasons with Detroit, hitting .285/.352/.415 with 185 home runs and 412 doubles. The six-time All-Star was the runner up for the 1987 American League MVP. Morris was 254-186 with a 3.90 ERA in his 18-year career, and spent 14 years with the Tigers. The right-hander had 2,478 strikeouts and topped 200 innings 11 times. Morris was a five-time All-Star and finished in the top five of Cy Young voting in five different seasons. In his 15 years on the writers ballot, Morris topped out at 66.7 percent in 2013, his second to last year on the ballot. Trammell reached only as high as 40.9 percent on the BBWAA ballot, doing so in 2016, his 15th and final year on the ballot. Morris and Trammell will be inducted to Cooperstown on Sunday, July 29, 2018, joined by any players elected by the Baseball Writers Association of America. The BBWAA voting results will be announced on Jan. 24, with newcomers Chipper Jones and Jim Thome plus holdovers Vladimir Guerrero and Trevor Hoffman possibly enshrined. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,576 Posted December 12, 2017 About time for Morris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Honcho 4,007 Posted December 12, 2017 Saw that last night, Trammell probably should have been voted in...Morris is a tougher case, I can see the arguments both ways. But Congrats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted December 12, 2017 Bout damn time Morris got in. You can argue the stats - but as somebody said in an unrelated thread earlier, you can't write the history of the sport w/out him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 12, 2017 Saw that last night, Trammell probably should have been voted in...Morris is a tougher case, I can see the arguments both ways. But Congrats That's just the issue with the whole focking thing. Either you're a HOF or you're not. None of this 10, 15 year bullsh1t. goes for Rice too. Tired of it. Morris was/is a HOF. Trammel, no Trammel - top 10 MVP, twice in his career. 7th and 2nd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted December 12, 2017 Trammel, no Trammel - top 10 MVP, twice in his career. 7th and 2nd. How do you put Trammell in over Vlad or Chipper? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 12, 2017 How do you put Trammell in over Vlad or Chipper? Trammel and Morris were voted in by the stupid "special committee" Vlad and Chipper have to wait till the BBWAA vote on Jan 24 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted December 12, 2017 Congrats to Jack Morris who now has the highest ERA in the Hall of Fame... I personally don't think either him or Trammell should have gotten in... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 12, 2017 Congrats to Jack Morris who now has the highest ERA in the Hall of Fame... I personally don't think either him or Trammell should have gotten in... I'm on the fence too, but MVP of the 1991 world series. We all remember that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted December 12, 2017 Congrats to Jack Morris who now has the highest ERA in the Hall of Fame... I personally don't think either him or Trammell should have gotten in... 175 complete games. ERA has become a different stat in the age of "quality starts". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted December 12, 2017 Congrats to Jack Morris who now has the highest ERA in the Hall of Fame... I personally don't think either him or Trammell should have gotten in... The 1984 Tigers hold a spot near and dear to my heart, but I agree with this in general. Baseball HOF is a joke. All that being said, you could make an argument for either based on who is already in. People talk about Jack Morris winning more games than any other pitcher in the 1980's without mentioning he also had the most losses in the 1980s too. Trammell's numbers are pretty pedestrian too. Neither one is a HOF'er in my mind. My criteria is simple. I ask you is <insert player name here> a HOF'er? If your answer isn't an immediate "Yes" then almost certainly he shouldn't be one. if you gotta make an argument (including comparing to others already in), then they aren't a HOF'er either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 12, 2017 The 1984 Tigers hold a spot near and dear to my heart, but I agree with this in general. Baseball HOF is a joke. All that being said, you could make an argument for either based on who is already in. People talk about Jack Morris winning more games than any other pitcher in the 1980's without mentioning he also had the most losses in the 1980s too. Trammell's numbers are pretty pedestrian too. Neither one is a HOF'er in my mind. My criteria is simple. I ask you is <insert player name here> a HOF'er? If your answer isn't an immediate "Yes" then almost certainly he shouldn't be one. if you gotta make an argument (including comparing to others already in), then they aren't a HOF'er either. Solid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted December 12, 2017 The 1984 Tigers hold a spot near and dear to my heart, but I agree with this in general. Baseball HOF is a joke. All that being said, you could make an argument for either based on who is already in. People talk about Jack Morris winning more games than any other pitcher in the 1980's without mentioning he also had the most losses in the 1980s too. Trammell's numbers are pretty pedestrian too. Neither one is a HOF'er in my mind. My criteria is simple. I ask you is <insert player name here> a HOF'er? If your answer isn't an immediate "Yes" then almost certainly he shouldn't be one. if you gotta make an argument (including comparing to others already in), then they aren't a HOF'er either. More of these 80's guys are going to get the nod to make up for the 90's pariahs. I haven't any issue with Morris and can instantly say yes. His opponents are the ones that want justification. Trammell, no way. No how. Next up Keith Hernandez, Will Clark, Mattingly, McGriff. Even Chili Davis has numbers superior to Trammell's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted December 12, 2017 The 1984 Tigers hold a spot near and dear to my heart, but I agree with this in general. Baseball HOF is a joke. All that being said, you could make an argument for either based on who is already in. People talk about Jack Morris winning more games than any other pitcher in the 1980's without mentioning he also had the most losses in the 1980s too. Trammell's numbers are pretty pedestrian too. Neither one is a HOF'er in my mind. My criteria is simple. I ask you is <insert player name here> a HOF'er? If your answer isn't an immediate "Yes" then almost certainly he shouldn't be one. if you gotta make an argument (including comparing to others already in), then they aren't a HOF'er either. Pretty much nailed it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted December 12, 2017 175 complete games. ERA has become a different stat in the age of "quality starts". Quality starts is even a stupider statistic IMO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TommyGavin 788 Posted December 12, 2017 Vlad Larry Jones Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted December 12, 2017 Quality starts is even a stupider statistic IMO... agree 100%. 6 innings 3 ER = 4.50 ERA. Even Jack morris scoffs at that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 12, 2017 Quality starts is even a stupider statistic IMO... One of the worst stats to come out of sports, ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted December 12, 2017 One of the worst stats to come out of sports, ever. Pretty close between this and the "hold"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,546 Posted December 12, 2017 Pretty close between this and the "hold"... the save blows too, as currently constituted. should be 1 run, not 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeroTolerance 582 Posted December 12, 2017 Pretty close between this and the "hold"... I prefer hold for the dumbest stat contest, considering it is the one 'positive' stat you can be awarded while literally sucking to the point of costing your team the game (see: Braves pitcher who entered the game with a lead, walked four straight batters, was pulled, received a hold for getting an out without giving up the lead while he was still in the game). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted December 13, 2017 I prefer hold for the dumbest stat contest, considering it is the one 'positive' stat you can be awarded while literally sucking to the point of costing your team the game (see: Braves pitcher who entered the game with a lead, walked four straight batters, was pulled, received a hold for getting an out without giving up the lead while he was still in the game). And then the next poor sucker throws a double play ball (that scores a run) and gets a blown save. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted December 13, 2017 And then the next poor sucker throws a double play ball (that scores a run) and gets a blown save. Not when the double play would have ended the inning as it would have in Zero's scenario... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
