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#1 phillygrrl08

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:34 PM

So in my fun work league, I had a verbal trade agreement with an owner, my WR for his RB. Today he has a trade go through that, imo, takes an up and coming RB from an owner (who has made some terrible trades) for two of his mediocre WRs. I tell him I don't want to do the trade anymore because I don't want his team to be too strong in the playoffs, he says we had a verbal agreement and I should honor it. I said I would have done the trade prior to him fleecing the other owner.

 

Am I morally obligated to go forward with the trade? He dumped two mediocre yet serviceable WRs anticipating he'd get a better WR from me. Now I'm rethinking the trade.



#2 weepaws

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:44 PM

One should always be able to change their mind.

Verbal agreement or not.

It's all good.
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Isaiah 12:2. Luke 14:23. Daniel 4:37. 2 Kings 17:39. Nahum 1:7.
Psalm 34:18. Ezra 8:22. 2 Corinthians 1:3. Ezekiel 36:26.
1 John 3:16. Lamentations 3:25. Proverbs 10:27. Ephesians 6:13
Proverbs 15:29. Proverbs 18:12. 1 John 2:1-2. Ephesians 6:19.
Proverbs 23:12. Psalm 121:7-8. Ephesians 1:7. Deuteronomy 28:11-13.
2 Peter 3:9. Isaiah 5:21. Proverbs 11:2. Matthews 5:16.
Psalm 58:11. Ezekiel 33:11-13. Hosea 14:9. Psalm 100:4.
John 3:3-7. Philippians 2:11. Titus 2:11-14. Ephesians 4:2
1 Timothy 1:15. Psalm 119:6. Proverbs 22:4. Psalm 46:1.

#3 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:58 PM

Verbal agreements never hold up in court. It's not a done deal until it's accepted on your website.

#4 boilerddd

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:03 PM

That is a tough one. Ultimately deal isn't done until you hit the accept button i guess. Can't blame the other owner from being a little pissed because lets face it, we all would like to fleece the league stooge. Just depends if you really care if the other owner is upset. If he's that person you work with that is really a tool and you could care less then tell him to cry to someone else. Also lets not lose our minds about "moral" obligation when dealing with FF topics. I'm cheering for Mixon to score TD's for heaven sake. 



#5 Gepetto

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:14 PM

You should honor your verbal agreement.  He did nothing wrong.  Your word is all you've got in this life.  Think about it.



#6 weepaws

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:30 PM

Since everyone does and has lied what good is someone's word?

No just pass on and say no.
Godswillbedone

Isaiah 12:2. Luke 14:23. Daniel 4:37. 2 Kings 17:39. Nahum 1:7.
Psalm 34:18. Ezra 8:22. 2 Corinthians 1:3. Ezekiel 36:26.
1 John 3:16. Lamentations 3:25. Proverbs 10:27. Ephesians 6:13
Proverbs 15:29. Proverbs 18:12. 1 John 2:1-2. Ephesians 6:19.
Proverbs 23:12. Psalm 121:7-8. Ephesians 1:7. Deuteronomy 28:11-13.
2 Peter 3:9. Isaiah 5:21. Proverbs 11:2. Matthews 5:16.
Psalm 58:11. Ezekiel 33:11-13. Hosea 14:9. Psalm 100:4.
John 3:3-7. Philippians 2:11. Titus 2:11-14. Ephesians 4:2
1 Timothy 1:15. Psalm 119:6. Proverbs 22:4. Psalm 46:1.

#7 Gepetto

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:32 PM

I guess I just side with the fleecer, because it's something I would do and be proud of.  



#8 Beyond Chaos

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:33 PM

I don't think honoring a verbal trade agreement in a "fun" fantasy football league constitutes a moral dilemma.  His trade prior to your trade changes the perceived value of your verbally negotiated trade.



#9 tanatastic

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:33 PM

Verbal means nothing. Clicking the approve button is all that matters.

#10 phillygrrl08

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:47 PM

Thank you, all. I may end up facing him in the playoffs so I'm going to decline his offer



#11 brotherbock

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:23 AM

I've had people pull out of trades that we'd verbally agreed to, in order to trade the same player to someone else. In those cases, I've felt like they should have done the trade they agreed to with me. But those were agreements reached after some negotiation.

 

What was the verbal agreement, specifically? Was it a casual "Hey, I'll give you X for Y", "Okay", or was there negotiation and it was taken seriously? I go the opposite of Beyond Chaos above--in a money league, I take nothing for granted. In a fun league...yeah, I'd go through with it.



#12 Challenger

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:23 AM

Two reasons I would take the trade. 

 

1. It's a work fun league, that trade in real value is worthless. A co-work less happy about you is not worth the trade off.

 

2. You are experiencing a typical human cognitive bias. Even if something benefit you, but if it benefit someone else more, you rather have nothing than something. That's just plain wrong choice.

 

Bonus: You may end up facing him in playoff? FF god will never let you be right that far along. 



#13 polecatt

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:04 AM

I wouldn't lose any sleep over this

I have talked trades with people a bunch over the years and agreed to stuff in words only to have it fall apart before it's official

If he really was serious about it he would have offered it beforehand



#14 seafoam1

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:24 AM

I would just tell him that you agreed to the trade based on the current rosters at that time. Now that things have changed so has your desire to do that trade. He should have followed through with your trade and then completed the other trade. Oops on his part.

#15 Phil Simms 11

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 01:25 PM

Depends on your own moral values. I would do the trade

#16 frank

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:11 PM

Bust a deal, face the wheel. :nono:

Another Dumb fvcking post by frank. :wave:

 

 

 

 

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#17 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:07 PM

there is no morality in fantasy sports, do what you think is best for your team


Prof Stats- 12 man PPR Superflex, 4pt passing, 2 Keeps

 

QB- Mariota (4), Semian (FA)

RB- Leveon (K), Gordon (K), TWest (6), Thompson (10), Carson (12)

WR- Crabtree (2), Hill (T), Coleman (5), JJNelson (FA)

TE- Reed (T), Eifert (9)

IR- Coleman (5), Woodhead (7)


#18 Phil Simms 11

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:45 AM

there is no morality in fantasy sports, do what you think is best for your team


How about drafting 2 teams while pretending to be 2 people and doing lopsided trades so one of the teams is stacked?

Since no morality in fantasy it's morally ok?

#19 Skinny_Bastard

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:08 AM

Until the trade is accepted through your league site, it's all a bunch of nothing.


To get the perfect a@@, you need to do the perfect squat.

It's okay, go ahead and take a closer look at that a@@ of mine in my profile.


#20 seafoam1

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:15 AM

what would you all do if you verbally said you would do a trade, then the other teams player fell down the stairs and broke his leg? Would you then say later in the day, "ok, lets now submit this trade to the league"?

#21 Brutal Brutus

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:15 AM

In the NFL, trades aren't finalized until the paper work is sent in. Do people honestly think two teams have never discussed a trade only to have a one of the teams get cold feet at the end and back out at the last second? Same concept. It's not moral issue, or a question of integrity. Even marriages aren't finalized until the document is signed.

#22 TennisMenace

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:23 AM

So in my fun work league, I had a verbal trade agreement with an owner, my WR for his RB. Today he has a trade go through that, imo, takes an up and coming RB from an owner (who has made some terrible trades) for two of his mediocre WRs. I tell him I don't want to do the trade anymore because I don't want his team to be too strong in the playoffs, he says we had a verbal agreement and I should honor it. I said I would have done the trade prior to him fleecing the other owner.
 
Am I morally obligated to go forward with the trade? He dumped two mediocre yet serviceable WRs anticipating he'd get a better WR from me. Now I'm rethinking the trade.

I say yes if you value your word. Just because he fleeced another person is not your concern.
3-3


Qb: DWatson, ASmith
RB: Zeke, Ty Montgomery, K Hunt, The Duke, ODarkwa, IR-DJohnson
WR: CHogan, SDiggs, DFunchess, CDavis, JDoctson
TE: ZErtz
D: Stream
K: Stream

#23 jimaveli

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:38 AM

Go ahead, say the player names. Without that, it seems like he made a trade assuming that your trade was in the bag based on your convo. For you to pull a Ric flair-style 'take back the handshake and strut away' is kinda lame in a vacuum. But whatever. Say the names.

#24 brotherbock

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:45 AM

what would you all do if you verbally said you would do a trade, then the other teams player fell down the stairs and broke his leg? Would you then say later in the day, "ok, lets now submit this trade to the league"?

 

Good question. That one I probably would not go through with, and wouldn't feel bad about it. To me, the distinction is that in the case we've been discussing, I'm still getting the value I thought I was getting, and still giving away the value I thought I was giving away. I'd also back out if the player lost his starting job to another player, got traded to another team (that put him in a clearly worse position), etc. 

 

What if the person you agreed to the trade with simply grabbed a suddenly very valuable player out of free agency? The reason given to back out was that the team you were trading with was going to be stronger than you thought they were, right? So you agree to give A for B, and then suddenly Zeke gets suspended and the other owner grabs Alf off waivers. Or had Alf on their bench already. Would you back out of that one just because their team was now suddenly stronger?



#25 jdon

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:20 AM

listen... if it's me I am honoring the deal, but that's because I have integrity...

that said, nothing is done, until it is done...

jdon


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#26 RaiderHater's Revenge

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:57 AM

How about drafting 2 teams while pretending to be 2 people and doing lopsided trades so one of the teams is stacked?

Since no morality in fantasy it's morally ok?

 

thats called collusion or cheating


Prof Stats- 12 man PPR Superflex, 4pt passing, 2 Keeps

 

QB- Mariota (4), Semian (FA)

RB- Leveon (K), Gordon (K), TWest (6), Thompson (10), Carson (12)

WR- Crabtree (2), Hill (T), Coleman (5), JJNelson (FA)

TE- Reed (T), Eifert (9)

IR- Coleman (5), Woodhead (7)


#27 brotherbock

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:23 PM

 

thats called collusion or cheating

 

But would it be worse than an accidental violation of a different rule? This isn't really terribly important to the thread, feel free to skip this :)

 

Example: My keeper league has an IR rule that allows us to put up to 3 guys on IR, even if they are just 'out'. In Yahoo, that means sometimes that you have to actually drop the player, and then we keep a message thread about who we dropped who is on IR. A bit clunky, but it works. What's happened before is that I'll have three guys on IR, but they aren't on my roster. They're shown as free agents, but they are on the IR list. And then I need to put another guy on IR--and I forget that I already have three on IR. So I'll list the fourth guy on IR, without announcing that I'm dropping one of the other guys. Technically, I just broke a league rule.

 

The two guys colluding also broke a league rule. But collusion is worse, right? Both rule violations, both potentially impact other teams (other owners don't pick up the guys I list on my IR). But one is also immoral. The other was just a mistake. I still invite the guy who makes the IR mistake back to the league. I don't invite the colluder back. :)



#28 Ray_T

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 12:39 PM

Two reasons I would take the trade. 

 

1. It's a work fun league, that trade in real value is worthless. A co-work less happy about you is not worth the trade off.

 

If it's a work fun league, and theres no money in the deal, then I would not worry about it.

 

Pissing off a co worker generally isnt a good thing to do in the office and if it's something trivial like a fantasy football league where little or no money is involved just do the damn deal.

 

Its not worth it to play that card and then have your co workers angry at you.

 

Its not.


3 keeper, 12 team league Standard scoring with QB getting -1 pt for an interception & fumbles 5 points for a defensive safety & 6 points for a defensive TD.

Start 2 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Kicker, one Def/Sp Tms

 

 

 

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#29 redsrback

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:19 PM

In 1 league were allowed 1 trade a week. In another both teams make a deal and the owner makes the changes after both teams notify him. All in all, i wouldnt waste my time on a friendly league, it would be to much like drafting a bunch of teams from sites for free.



#30 polecatt

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:46 PM

 

But would it be worse than an accidental violation of a different rule? This isn't really terribly important to the thread, feel free to skip this :)

 

Example: My keeper league has an IR rule that allows us to put up to 3 guys on IR, even if they are just 'out'. In Yahoo, that means sometimes that you have to actually drop the player, and then we keep a message thread about who we dropped who is on IR. A bit clunky, but it works. What's happened before is that I'll have three guys on IR, but they aren't on my roster. They're shown as free agents, but they are on the IR list. And then I need to put another guy on IR--and I forget that I already have three on IR. So I'll list the fourth guy on IR, without announcing that I'm dropping one of the other guys. Technically, I just broke a league rule.

 

The two guys colluding also broke a league rule. But collusion is worse, right? Both rule violations, both potentially impact other teams (other owners don't pick up the guys I list on my IR). But one is also immoral. The other was just a mistake. I still invite the guy who makes the IR mistake back to the league. I don't invite the colluder back. :)

Of course you can say one is worse than the other, if not every violation of the rules would have the same penalty and we all know they don't

A mistake isn't intentional, hopefully learned from and not repeated, everyone can relate to an honest mistake

A deliberate violation of one of the cardinal sins is much different, that person totally loses their credibility and likely won't get it back



#31 brotherbock

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:58 PM

Of course you can say one is worse than the other, if not every violation of the rules would have the same penalty and we all know they don't

A mistake isn't intentional, hopefully learned from and not repeated, everyone can relate to an honest mistake

A deliberate violation of one of the cardinal sins is much different, that person totally loses their credibility and likely won't get it back

 

Exactly, I agree. I was just joining in the questioning of the claim that morality/ethics doesn't matter at all in FF. It clearly does. Not that someone backing out of a deal like OPs is something I'd go to war over, not invite her back, say she was 'immoral' for or anything.

 

But I'd be grumpy, and not just at circumstances. 



#32 BuschWack

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:07 PM

So in my fun work league, I had a verbal trade agreement with an owner, my WR for his RB. Today he has a trade go through that, imo, takes an up and coming RB from an owner (who has made some terrible trades) for two of his mediocre WRs. I tell him I don't want to do the trade anymore because I don't want his team to be too strong in the playoffs, he says we had a verbal agreement and I should honor it. I said I would have done the trade prior to him fleecing the other owner.

 

Am I morally obligated to go forward with the trade? He dumped two mediocre yet serviceable WRs anticipating he'd get a better WR from me. Now I'm rethinking the trade.

He dumped the two mediocre, yet serviceable WRs in anticipating of the trade based on your word (verbal agreement).  Yes, it's just a fun league, and I'm assuming no $$ involved.. but what's of value at this point, is your word when it comes to a friend/co-worker.  IMO you shouldn't back out of the deal based on his moves to re-align his roster in anticipation of the trade.  The value here, for you, is your word and the player you'll get in return.   


14 Team/Redraft, .5 PPR, Start: 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 WR, 3 Flex (RB, WR, TE), 1 TE, 1 Def, 1 K 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QB:  Tyrod Taylor, Brissett, Andrew Luck

RB:  Ezekiel Elliott, Kareem Hunt, Doug Martin, Alvin Kamara, Jerick McKinnon, Morris/McFadden

WR:  Jordy Nelson, Kelvin Benjamin, Agholor

TE:  Jimmy Graham, Doyle

Def:  Streaming - Texans

Kicker:  Streaming - Prater, Lions


#33 SpenceToons

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:49 PM

It feels wrong-footed to me to pass up an opportunity to improve your squad in what could be a vain attempt to hold another manager down. Be bold….take the offensive. Make the exchange that will improve your odds against all the other managers you will face this season.

 

And if Villain is looking especially formidable when you meet in the playoffs, just put some Pat Benatar on loop….

 

 

You come on with it..come on you don’t fight fair.

But that’s ok, see if I care !

Knock me down it’s all in vain

I get right back on my feet again.

 

Hit Me With Your Best Shot !

C’mon…Hit Me With Your Best Shot !!

Fire Away !

 

:headbanger:



#34 brotherbock

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:29 PM

It feels wrong-footed to me to pass up an opportunity to improve your squad in what could be a vain attempt to hold another manager down. Be bold….take the offensive. Make the exchange that will improve your odds against all the other managers you will face this season.

 

And if Villain is looking especially formidable when you meet in the playoffs, just put some Pat Benatar on loop….

 

 

You come on with it..come on you don’t fight fair.

But that’s ok, see if I care !

Knock me down it’s all in vain

I get right back on my feet again.

 

Hit Me With Your Best Shot !

C’mon…Hit Me With Your Best Shot !!

Fire Away !

 

:headbanger:

 

Or you could play the modern musical marvel that is 'This Is My Fight Song'. So nuanced.



#35 phillygrrl08

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:08 PM

In analyzing the trade, I also realized my reluctance was due to me picking up Aaron Jones and Kamara coming off a bye. My needs changed in that I didn't need a RB anymore, and with Diggs becoming hurt, my need was in WR.

 

Yes,it is a fun league but some of us throw in $20 to make it more interesting. It's really for bragging rights.

 

Cause I've still got a lot of fight left in me



#36 brotherbock

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:12 AM

 

Cause I've still got a lot of fight left in me

 

:music_guitarred:  :headbanger: